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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by utopizen on March 1, 2004, at 18:04:55
Okay, here's my idea, now that my Desoxyn, after like 9 months, is causing me to have some sort of depression or social lability or whatever (when I talk to people on it, I feel like I want to cry, even though can't, and people think I'm depressed, and I think I am)
I'm happy since I stopped (don't tell my doc) a few days ago. And I ordered some Hupergyzine-A (sp) and will see how that works, along with some Nicorette gum (hard to explain to CVS guy why I was buying it and never smoked before).
Um, I've started using the Hup-A at 50 mcg and used a Nicorette gum today, but don't trust myself... heh... so won't report on their affected. But Desoxyn definitely has been making my short-term memory closer to zero lately, so I'm afraid I should switch to Adderall soon.
But let me see here... down the road, let's say, trying Straterra, given that I've heard reports of it regulating people's desire to sleep and wake consistently, and my sleep doc wants me to do that everyday (including weekends) and so far I can barely sleep at all without Ambien (which I must order online, given that sleep docs are less than cool).
Well, after "stabalizing" whatever dose with Straterra I can tolerate (up to 80mg, hopefully) I plan to intro Wellbutrin 2 months later, in addition to remaining on Adderall (or god forbid these "doctors" keep me on Desoxyn, those meanies! I hate this stuff!)
Ever since I started the stimulants, Ritalin to Dex to Adderall to Desoxyn, I've told my first doc, my mind needs stims at different periods like cars need tire rotation.... and he listened.
Then I got a new set of pdocs and sleep docs and now they've had me on Desoxyn for almost a year!! And my hypothesis, sadly, has proven itself true-- my brain can't just constantly get bolted by the same old set of batteries called Desoxyn...
Posted by PsychoSage on March 1, 2004, at 18:34:30
In reply to Straterra+Wellbutrin+Adderall... good cocktail? =), posted by utopizen on March 1, 2004, at 18:04:55
> Okay, here's my idea, now that my Desoxyn, after like 9 months, is causing me to have some sort of depression or social lability or whatever (when I talk to people on it, I feel like I want to cry, even though can't, and people think I'm depressed, and I think I am)
>
> I'm happy since I stopped (don't tell my doc) a few days ago. And I ordered some Hupergyzine-A (sp) and will see how that works, along with some Nicorette gum (hard to explain to CVS guy why I was buying it and never smoked before).
>
> Um, I've started using the Hup-A at 50 mcg and used a Nicorette gum today, but don't trust myself... heh... so won't report on their affected. But Desoxyn definitely has been making my short-term memory closer to zero lately, so I'm afraid I should switch to Adderall soon.
>
> But let me see here... down the road, let's say, trying Straterra, given that I've heard reports of it regulating people's desire to sleep and wake consistently, and my sleep doc wants me to do that everyday (including weekends) and so far I can barely sleep at all without Ambien (which I must order online, given that sleep docs are less than cool).
>
> Well, after "stabalizing" whatever dose with Straterra I can tolerate (up to 80mg, hopefully) I plan to intro Wellbutrin 2 months later, in addition to remaining on Adderall (or god forbid these "doctors" keep me on Desoxyn, those meanies! I hate this stuff!)
>
> Ever since I started the stimulants, Ritalin to Dex to Adderall to Desoxyn, I've told my first doc, my mind needs stims at different periods like cars need tire rotation.... and he listened.
>
> Then I got a new set of pdocs and sleep docs and now they've had me on Desoxyn for almost a year!! And my hypothesis, sadly, has proven itself true-- my brain can't just constantly get bolted by the same old set of batteries called Desoxyn...
Wow, your brain sounds like mine, but you seem to be more practiced and bold.I would think about scaling down and making a list. Write down the drugs that you used that you want no part of anymore. Write down what you are thinking about keeping or lowering. Write down what you can never use whether you have taken it or not. Write down what you want to try. Write down what receptors you want to hit and what conditions you want to address with each drug.
After working through your list of: "NO MORE" DRUGS, "KEEP OR DISCARD" DRUGS, "NEVER EVER" DRUGS, "WANT TO TRY ON" DRUGS and then matching them to receptors and conditions then you can see where you are at.
From there you can fiddle.
Oh, you should make a list of sanctioned use drugs and unsanctioned use drugs, so you can think about what is doing what to you because you are now your own doctor since your doctor doesn't know half the story.
Wellbutrin and Strattera are not the same thing, but my prescriber said that if I were on one without any problem then the other one would be unnecessary and would confuse things.
They both are norepinephrine drugs. WB is somewhat dopaminergic but not much to me and not at all like any stimulant as far as immediacy and strength. Even provigil which hits dopamine in a different way than stimulants [lots of people think it is only norepinephrine, but that is not true at all] is like an amphetamine each and every day more than wellbutrin, and I bet strattera which I have never taken. i think I read somewhere Lilly was kind of not happy and worried, since it can not call strattera the best drug for ADHD. It is not getting rave reviews across the board. It may be relegated as second-line to the stimulants forever.
Polypharmacy is a messy casserole.
I wish we could talk about purchasing some of these non-prescribed substances though because I have my eyes peeled since I am so frustrated and tired with the meds game after a little more than 6 years doing it.
lastly, isn't there something that can prescribed that is more effective than nicotine gum for nicotinic receptors? i used to take the gum on my way to my first class even if I was smoking during that part of my life because I did not want to be everyone's first smell of the day, and it really did wake me up and sustain me longer than one smoke. I would use it to write papers too when I did not want to smoke in my room or did not want to take an elvator down 15 flights to do it outside. There was always ths stairwell, but then i would have to eventually pick up all my buts.
Posted by utopizen on March 2, 2004, at 17:37:20
In reply to Re: Straterra+Wellbutrin+Adderall... good cocktail? =), posted by PsychoSage on March 1, 2004, at 18:34:30
My doc just told me of something I am appauled at for my self not thinking of earlier. LOL! An idea coming FROM my doc, who would have thought!
I have ADD+sleepiness (I've tried CPAP, BiPAP, etc.) I've tried Provigil at 400mg, and felt nothing, unless I mixed it with 20 tea bags. Then I felt less tired, untolerably jittery. (20 tea bags alone or Provigil alone failed).
SO-- My doc's claim that he's seen patients fail Provigil and Straterra individually but successfully tried the combo together with sucess MAKES SENSE (again, go figure, and he's an M.D. too).
So it may not work, but I'm going to give it a shot...
Posted by PsychoSage on March 3, 2004, at 0:28:08
In reply to Straterra + Provigil (combo tango) » PsychoSage, posted by utopizen on March 2, 2004, at 17:37:20
> My doc just told me of something I am appauled at for my self not thinking of earlier. LOL! An idea coming FROM my doc, who would have thought!
>
> I have ADD+sleepiness (I've tried CPAP, BiPAP, etc.) I've tried Provigil at 400mg, and felt nothing, unless I mixed it with 20 tea bags. Then I felt less tired, untolerably jittery. (20 tea bags alone or Provigil alone failed).
>
> SO-- My doc's claim that he's seen patients fail Provigil and Straterra individually but successfully tried the combo together with sucess MAKES SENSE (again, go figure, and he's an M.D. too).
>
> So it may not work, but I'm going to give it a shot...my bipolar friend's ADD boyfriend does well on the Strattera and Provigil combo, and he has done all the meds since he was little. He could not handle wellbutrin for some reason. He told me it made him want to jump out of his skin. I feel less irritable with the provigil on top of wellbutrin 300. I don't need much provigil since I am not narco or a genuine ADD person. I like the fact that provigil can be more gentle than amphet. or ritalin.
I guess Strattera can give you a baseline for norepinephrine, and the provigil can give you peak alertness and focus during the important parts of the day. I feel wellbutrin is just not potent enough to give me what I need on its own, but it's a solid drug for me.
I will give a final grade on provigil in a few months or even later if it turns out to be a mainstay.
Posted by utopizen on March 4, 2004, at 15:22:29
In reply to Re: Straterra + Provigil (combo tango), posted by PsychoSage on March 3, 2004, at 0:28:08
Just to clarify, this doc is my pulmnologist, one of my three sleep docs. He gives me BiPAP (like CPAP, only more hi-tech) for my breathing at night (borderline sleep apnea, I am scrony)
He suggested it for my sleepiness, which is my top priority. Bear in mind the highest dose a doc will generally give out for Provigil is 400mg, and I felt nothing on that, for anything. Still sleepy when I was on that.
The idea is that Straterra+Provigil in patients with ADD+sleepiness who failed either one drug alone will have a synergy to each other, allowing the patient to feel alert and attentive.
Whether this is because the two potentiate X, Y or Z neurotransmitters is less relevane--
bear in mind once two drugs enter your system, they essientially become one drug...
...and your body becomes a compounding pharmacy, and they have effects that might not occur if you take either one drug alone.
This is the end of the thread.
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