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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by SJ on February 18, 2004, at 7:14:34
What is depersonalization/derealization? Can someone who has experienced this tell me what it feels like? My 10 year old daughter is currently on Lexapro for anxiety. She's been describing some things to me that are out of the ordinary for her and I'm wondering if this is something I need to worry about? Any help you can send this way would be appreciated.
Posted by jaby on February 18, 2004, at 9:47:55
In reply to Depersonalization/Derealization, posted by SJ on February 18, 2004, at 7:14:34
It's probably what she's describing. I have troubles with it without drug 24/7. It gets worse for me when I use SSRI's. It's a spacey feeling like nnothig around you is real. You look in the miror and it doesn't fel liek it's you. Baically you just don't feel grounded in the world we live in . There is nothing you can say to make it better. I have found klonopin to be very effective at reducing these symptoms. It is a drug that ca couse dependency, but it may help her with her start up on Lexapro. By the way I had a terrible time with it with that particular drug.
Also, even if it's a semi ectivating drug have her tae it night RIGHT before she goes to sleep. This will reduce the time in that state.
I have ben dealing with the DD/DP for about 6 years now (27 yo) and these are my tricks of the trade. All other questions are welcome.
Posted by SJ on February 18, 2004, at 10:23:02
In reply to Re: Depersonalization/Derealization, posted by jaby on February 18, 2004, at 9:47:55
Do you think it's a result of her being on the Lexapro (on Lex for 12wks) or does it go hand in hand with the anxiety? We hated to put her on medication at 10 years old, and really dread the idea of adding another. Since this seems to be something new for her, is there a possibility that this may pass? Thanks again.
Posted by nicky847 on February 18, 2004, at 10:34:34
In reply to Re: Depersonalization/Derealization, posted by SJ on February 18, 2004, at 10:23:02
DP/DR is a common symptom of anxiety disorder..so it is more likely that the symptoms she is experiencing is a result of the disorder, not the med..
Derealization is caused mainly by arterial constriction that accompanies anxiety...the human flight or fight response is programmed to increase blood flow to the limbs and away from the brain in a time of high anxiety..which makes it easier to run away...its similar to when people are in a car accident or something and they say that everything slows down or seems unreal..in an actual situation that threatens a persons survival the body is programmed to just do dont think...when your fight or flight mechanism is out of whack..the same thing happens..the reduced blood flow to the brain causes a feeling of unreality...the body soon goes back to normal though..
> Do you think it's a result of her being on the Lexapro (on Lex for 12wks) or does it go hand in hand with the anxiety? We hated to put her on medication at 10 years old, and really dread the idea of adding another. Since this seems to be something new for her, is there a possibility that this may pass? Thanks again.
Posted by SJ on February 18, 2004, at 11:06:13
In reply to Re: Depersonalization/Derealization, posted by nicky847 on February 18, 2004, at 10:34:34
Is this something that I need to worry about? The last couple nights she's been saying that she doesn't feel like she's really here. She'll touch me and ask me if I can feel that. She's questioning how our eyes work... how do we really see, how did we really get here. Questions that normally a 10 year old wouldn't be asking. I'm not sure what to say to her. She has her monthly appt w/her therapist. Should we mention this to her?
Posted by nicky847 on February 18, 2004, at 11:32:35
In reply to Re: Depersonalization/Derealization, posted by SJ on February 18, 2004, at 11:06:13
I think that you should mention this to your daughter's therapist...
it sounds like your daughter is a very bright young girl with an inquisitive nature..but i do know that feeling as though you are not really there is very frightening..i think the best thing you can do for your daughter is to reassure her when she feels that way that it is normal for people to feel like that when they are nervous or scared..and that sometimes people can feel scared of things even though there is really nothing to be afraid of..and thats normal too..
i tend to realize that when i have problems feeling that way..it is in times when i am already anxious...but when i am relaxed i never feel that way..deep breaths always help...have your daughter put her hands on her belly and take 10 deep breaths and just concentrate on her belly rising and falling..she should notice she feels much better after doing that..
> Is this something that I need to worry about? The last couple nights she's been saying that she doesn't feel like she's really here. She'll touch me and ask me if I can feel that. She's questioning how our eyes work... how do we really see, how did we really get here. Questions that normally a 10 year old wouldn't be asking. I'm not sure what to say to her. She has her monthly appt w/her therapist. Should we mention this to her?
Posted by SJ on February 18, 2004, at 12:02:17
In reply to Re: Depersonalization/Derealization, posted by nicky847 on February 18, 2004, at 11:32:35
Nicky847 - Thanks for all your helpful words. Since I don't know what this feeling is like, I wasn't sure what would be helpful for her to hear. I will remember your post. She is very in tune to her feelings and sometimes looks scared. I read many posts where people sound so alone and I want to do my best to be sure she knows that she'll never be totally alone. I sincerely appreciate your helpful words.
Posted by nicky847 on February 18, 2004, at 12:10:35
In reply to Re: Depersonalization/Derealization, posted by SJ on February 18, 2004, at 12:02:17
Im glad that my words were helpful to you...i am sure that she knows she is not alone having you there for her..:)
nick
> Nicky847 - Thanks for all your helpful words. Since I don't know what this feeling is like, I wasn't sure what would be helpful for her to hear. I will remember your post. She is very in tune to her feelings and sometimes looks scared. I read many posts where people sound so alone and I want to do my best to be sure she knows that she'll never be totally alone. I sincerely appreciate your helpful words.
Posted by crazychickuk on February 18, 2004, at 16:16:41
In reply to Re: Depersonalization/Derealization, posted by SJ on February 18, 2004, at 12:02:17
Does this run in the family at all? i wonder why the hell the doc stuck her on meds at all... meds aint for everyone, they just flog ya off with meds all the time, like my daughter got flogged of with an ashma inhaler for her cough. they said she has ashma.. noone in the family has it, she dont have it, she dont wease... anyways sorry going of the subject but i am sure you can see my point.... if she didnt suffer with dp before the med then its the med doing it to her, did to me... i find in my experience every med i try when i stop it a new symptoms appears, and i am sure for many others too.... anyways my opinion get her of the meds and work with her through therapy she is young, it will get drummed into her brain quicker..... maybe when she is alot older then she can make that disicion... just my opinion.. sorry if i sound harsh.. but i feel for her.. i really do... think back did she get dp before taking the med? dont just take the opinion of others "it comes with anxiety" yes it does, but also it comes with meds too, remember the meds are messing with brain chemicals..
Your friend Donna
Posted by Edgefield on February 18, 2004, at 16:24:14
In reply to Depersonalization/Derealization, posted by SJ on February 18, 2004, at 7:14:34
Derealization began when I had my first panic attack. It is a spacey, hangover, feeling as if you're still walking around asleep. If you have ever suddenly jumped out of bed after being sound asleep you probably felt spacey for a moment until you were totally awake. That initial feeling would best describe how I felt.
The spacey feeling became worst when I took Zoloft, Prozac, and Lexapro. Wellbutrin has been the only med. to help me about 90% with that feeling. Needless to say I would rather not take anymore SSRIs.
This feeling might subside for your daughter...in my case after several months this was not the case.
God Bless
Edgefield
> What is depersonalization/derealization? Can someone who has experienced this tell me what it feels like? My 10 year old daughter is currently on Lexapro for anxiety. She's been describing some things to me that are out of the ordinary for her and I'm wondering if this is something I need to worry about? Any help you can send this way would be appreciated.
Posted by francesco on February 18, 2004, at 18:18:57
In reply to Depersonalization/Derealization, posted by SJ on February 18, 2004, at 7:14:34
Sorry to repeat what also Crazychuck said. I don't think a 10 years old girl med should be on an SSRI, never mind what the doctor say about it. I was anxious too when I was a child and I have several problems too as an adult. But I can't see the point in giving a child an antidepressant since they don't cure anything as all the babblers here know. There are chanches that your daughter will improve in the years to come, but this chances, in my humble opinion, are minimized if she takes meds now. By the way, anxiety at that age may mean anything at all, but taking an antidepressants surely does. Moreover many antidepressants can cause NEW syntoms, no psychistrist will admit this, but, once again, we all know. Sorry again if my opinion has been too harsh, I can understand it's hard for you not to know what's in your daughter's best interest.
Posted by SJ on February 19, 2004, at 7:10:05
In reply to Re: Depersonalization/Derealization » SJ, posted by francesco on February 18, 2004, at 18:18:57
Thanks for everyone's honesty. We decided (actually she was begging for something to help her feel better) to put her on Lexapro after a year and a half of therapy. She "felt crazy" and cried every night before bed, she couldn't to sleep, when she did she'd wake up in the middle of the night and couldn't get back to sleep. She always had a lump in her throat and felt like she couldn't breath. Since on Lexapro, she thanks us about 3 times a week for getting her help and making her feel normal. Pretty strong words for a 10 year old. I don't know if we made the right decision or not, but we're trying our best. I'm not sure if what she's explaining is normal 10 year old stuff or if she is experiencing depersonalization/derealization. It does not run in the family and has only started within in the week. Thanks again for all your opinions. I will take them to heart.
Posted by SJ on February 20, 2004, at 21:21:23
In reply to Re: Depersonalization/Derealization, posted by SJ on February 19, 2004, at 7:10:05
Well, I'm back again. My 10 year old daughter, week 12 on Lexapro, just finished crying. She can't tell if she's dreaming or awake. I don't know what to tell her. She's got an appointment with her therapist on Wednesday and says she'll be okay until then. She says she spends much of her day wondering how does she see things, can she really feel things. Things don't seem real to her. I feel so awful for her, I just want to throw up. I'm sad for the future she might have before her.
Posted by tealady on February 22, 2004, at 1:54:54
In reply to Re: Depersonalization/Derealization, posted by SJ on February 20, 2004, at 21:21:23
> Well, I'm back again. My 10 year old daughter, week 12 on Lexapro, just finished crying. She can't tell if she's dreaming or awake. I don't know what to tell her. She's got an appointment with her therapist on Wednesday and says she'll be okay until then. She says she spends much of her day wondering how does she see things, can she really feel things. Things don't seem real to her. I feel so awful for her, I just want to throw up. I'm sad for the future she might have before her.
I have to agree with those who say that this drug is NOT for your daughter. If the DP/DR began after she started the drug..then there is a very STRONG chance that the drug caused it..not 100%..but close to it. The only way you will know for certain is to wean her OFF the drug.
I'd phone the doc who prescribed this straight away, explain what is going on and ask to wean her off...she can always try another drug..there are more than one ... and another may suit her better..although I tend to be very hesitant about putting any 10yr old on these drugs...they are usually not tested on children and noone knows for sure just how they will affect brain development ..and children are NOT identical to same as little adults.
I know what you must have gone thru beofre deciding to try her on thsi drug..but it was only that..a trial. If it doesn't suit her...and it clearly doesn't..then you have to wean her off and try something else. I doubt if anyone much gets the right drug the first time..or even the second.She is obviously a clever little girl and is trying to tell you that this drug doesn't suit ..as well as she can formulate the idea. Please consider weaning her off...she is too little to be able to tell you this outright or work it out for herself, or to question a doc's script.
Also I experienced this DP/DR (I think) for over 10 years...it is NOT good and I never want to have it again. I did try SSRI's for about 10 years too..but it lasted longer after I was off them.
I found I couldn't breathe either..like I had a lump at the very bottom of my throat.. I found out later I had thyroid antibodies..and perhaps all those years I did have a lump but the doc and noone could see it as it can grow inwards...so get your daughter tested out for thyroid antibodies (antTPO, TSI, ), CRP at least. Perhaps TSH, FT4 and Ft3, as well..although these may not show initially in the tests. (TBII, and anti TG may be good too)
This DP/DR is very common amongst those with thyroid probalems..and so is the difficulty in breathing.
Best wishes and good luck with everything
Posted by qbsbrown on February 22, 2004, at 13:27:55
In reply to Re: Depersonalization/Derealization, posted by SJ on February 20, 2004, at 21:21:23
I'm so sorry for what you and your daughter are going throug. I wish I could talk to her. Don't be affraid of her future, she will be fine.
I developed horrible dp/dr about 2.5 yrs ago. I've tried several ssris w/o results. I recently weaned myself off of LEXAPRO almost 2 months ago. I haven't felt this well since it all started. I do believe that the meds increased this feeling, if not caused it. Feeling anxious, I tried Effexor for a couple days (couple weeks ago), and the feelings came back.
Ask her if she has any psyical symptoms. These can be related to thyroid problems, and chronic migraines. The migraines don't have to be classical (extreme pain), but odd feeling in head, tension, visual disturbances.
I had 3 neurologists tell me that's what I have. I didn't believe them at first, but after 2 yrs of dp I was up for anything. I being treated for them, and I'm improving everyday.
I wish you the best of luck.
Posted by SJ on February 22, 2004, at 13:38:24
In reply to Re: Depersonalization/Derealization, posted by qbsbrown on February 22, 2004, at 13:27:55
I wanted to thank all of your for your responses. I'm going to call her pdoc first thing on Monday to discuss weaning her off Lexapro. I'm not sure what the next step will be, but I think this is a good place to begin. Again, your advice and suggestions were appreciated.
Posted by tealady on February 23, 2004, at 1:38:24
In reply to Re: Depersonalization/Derealization, posted by SJ on February 22, 2004, at 13:38:24
> I'm going to call her pdoc first thing on Monday to discuss weaning her off Lexapro. I'm not sure what the next step will be, but I think this is a good place to begin.
I'm so glad to hear that.
Yes, I think weaning her off is the first step..then see how she feels..better or worse...and take it from there I guess.
I used to trial drugs for 3 months to 6 months but never found any to help among the SSRI's..but people do find something that suits them, although not always on the first try.
I note that most here don't give them that long with negative reactions, which makes sense.Mine was partly thyroid problems..which was why I was having breathing difficulties at the bottom of my throat I guess..only it wasn't picked up.
I think an ultrasound can possibly show it..only my doc didn't know that the growth can be all internal. Worth considering anyway, as it can't hurt.The anxiety is still there unfortunately, but the depression is not so bad. (although I do take St john's wort at prsent)
Just an idea, but I found that the amino acid l-tyrosine helped pull me out of the DR/DP after over 10 years of it..and I've heard others are helped by this too. I take about 375mg on an empty stomach at least 30minutes before breakfast and he other 125mg before lunch..
I get it in capsules 500mg powder(I just tip the powder onto my tongue, take larger part before brekkie, and remainder before lunch.
I buy it from Thorne Research, in the US... It is something that cannot hurt to try...I know some people who have their 6 to 9 year old children successfully on it for ADD for a couple of years so far...and its working. Also fish oil capsules may help..
I don't know if you have tried (or considered)the more natural alternative route or not...which would include dietary changes ..like cutting down(or trying to eliminate) food additives..like sulphates(as in preservatives or even some breads), nitrites..as in bacon, corn beef or "pink" meats
artificial sweetner, artifical colors,..actually artificial anything..just meat, veges, fruit and natural stuff.
This made a big difference in my kids.Best wishes. I hope you find something soon
Jan
Posted by francesco on February 23, 2004, at 8:32:45
In reply to Re: Depersonalization/Derealization » SJ, posted by tealady on February 23, 2004, at 1:38:24
Hi Tealady, just to say that I found by accident l-tyrosine useful for the same purpose you mentioned. I didn't realize my problem could be 'derealization' but since I started Parnate and Trifluoperazine about one month ago (I quit them after five or six days) what I'm experiencing fits very well with this disturb. Is it an anxiety disorder ? I'm asking because I don't feel anxious just confused, and sometimes I have period of blank mind, never mind where I am or what I'm doing. It's awful because I've never been had this kind of sensation, it's the first time in my life, and the only thing that can explain it are my recent (short) trials of meds.
I have now short memory problems too and language problems. All of this syntoms are brand new to me, my dx was bipolar II and/or adhd, now it seems like I have Alzhemeir disease !!!
My psychiatris told me to take Xanax until the appointment but I can't see his point.
Anyway, yesterday I take L-Tyrosine and I find myself feeling emotions again and being able to have a long conversation with a friend which I've been unable of in the last one month or so. Don't know what is happening but L-Tyrosine seems to help.
Posted by Edgefield on February 24, 2004, at 17:45:42
In reply to about l-tyrosine and depersonalization » tealady, posted by francesco on February 23, 2004, at 8:32:45
Francesco, is the L-Tyrosine still helping the derealization feeling? I just wanted to check before I run to the health food store :)
Edgefield
> Hi Tealady, just to say that I found by accident l-tyrosine useful for the same purpose you mentioned. I didn't realize my problem could be 'derealization' but since I started Parnate and Trifluoperazine about one month ago (I quit them after five or six days) what I'm experiencing fits very well with this disturb. Is it an anxiety disorder ? I'm asking because I don't feel anxious just confused, and sometimes I have period of blank mind, never mind where I am or what I'm doing. It's awful because I've never been had this kind of sensation, it's the first time in my life, and the only thing that can explain it are my recent (short) trials of meds.
>
> I have now short memory problems too and language problems. All of this syntoms are brand new to me, my dx was bipolar II and/or adhd, now it seems like I have Alzhemeir disease !!!
>
> My psychiatris told me to take Xanax until the appointment but I can't see his point.
> Anyway, yesterday I take L-Tyrosine and I find myself feeling emotions again and being able to have a long conversation with a friend which I've been unable of in the last one month or so. Don't know what is happening but L-Tyrosine seems to help.
Posted by francesco on February 24, 2004, at 18:45:35
In reply to Re: about l-tyrosine and depersonalization » francesco, posted by Edgefield on February 24, 2004, at 17:45:42
Not so sure about it anymore. Today I took 1000mg of it and it didn't help very much. I'm sorry to give you bad news, anyway, this doesn't mean it won't work for you. Good Luck
Posted by Thereishope on February 27, 2004, at 15:11:30
In reply to Re: about l-tyrosine and depersonalization » Edgefield, posted by francesco on February 24, 2004, at 18:45:35
Francesco is today a better day on the l-tyrosine?
> Not so sure about it anymore. Today I took 1000mg of it and it didn't help very much. I'm sorry to give you bad news, anyway, this doesn't mean it won't work for you. Good Luck
Posted by francesco on February 27, 2004, at 15:28:44
In reply to Re: about l-tyrosine and depersonalization » francesco, posted by Thereishope on February 27, 2004, at 15:11:30
I found l-tyrosine very energizing at first but now I can barely feel its effects. Today I've seen my psychiatrist and he prescribed me xanax 0.25 (derealization = anxiety) twice a day and Anafranil 10 mg for adhd. Bye !
Posted by Thereishope on February 27, 2004, at 15:39:55
In reply to Re: about l-tyrosine and depersonalization » Thereishope, posted by francesco on February 27, 2004, at 15:28:44
Sounds like a good combo. I wish you the best of health :)
> I found l-tyrosine very energizing at first but now I can barely feel its effects. Today I've seen my psychiatrist and he prescribed me xanax 0.25 (derealization = anxiety) twice a day and Anafranil 10 mg for adhd. Bye !
Posted by francesco on February 27, 2004, at 20:24:29
In reply to Re: about l-tyrosine and depersonalization » francesco, posted by Thereishope on February 27, 2004, at 15:39:55
This is the end of the thread.
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