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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Mr. Scott on February 16, 2004, at 22:25:54
Has anyone tried these meds with good results? Which one is preferable as they are next on the list and I'll probably be on one next week.Scott
Posted by cubbybear on February 16, 2004, at 23:16:17
In reply to Nardil (Phenelzine) vs Parnate (Tranylcypromine), posted by Mr. Scott on February 16, 2004, at 22:25:54
>
> Has anyone tried these meds with good results? Which one is preferable as they are next on the list and I'll probably be on one next week.
>
> ScottHi Scott,
You've come to the right place. I've had 20 years of great experience with Parnate. I've never tried Nardil and I think our resident Nardil expert Ace will probably put his 2 cents in about it. But, as for Parnate, my life has been saved by it. Fire away with any specific questions you've got.
cubbybear
Posted by gardenergirl on February 17, 2004, at 9:36:26
In reply to Re: Nardil (Phenelzine) vs Parnate (Tranylcypromine) » Mr. Scott, posted by cubbybear on February 16, 2004, at 23:16:17
Mr. Scott,
I have great success with Nardil (60mg) for atypical depression. This is the only med that has worked for me. SSRI's and Wellbutrin did not do it for me.Good luck to you. As far as Nardil versus Parnate, I really don't have an opinion as I've never taken Parnate.
gg
Posted by Chairman_MAO on February 17, 2004, at 10:25:39
In reply to Nardil (Phenelzine) vs Parnate (Tranylcypromine), posted by Mr. Scott on February 16, 2004, at 22:25:54
The right meds can only be found with cautious empirical investigation, but plenty on this board can make an educated guess if you describe what you're seeking to change with an MAOI. Do not forget that there is also Marplan to try.
Nardil is best for social phobia/anxious depression, whereas Parnate is best for anergic depression/ADD. This is a gross generalization, though.
Posted by zeugma on February 17, 2004, at 10:30:08
In reply to Re: Nardil (Phenelzine) vs Parnate (Tranylcypromine) » Mr. Scott, posted by Chairman_MAO on February 17, 2004, at 10:25:39
> The right meds can only be found with cautious empirical investigation, but plenty on this board can make an educated guess if you describe what you're seeking to change with an MAOI. Do not forget that there is also Marplan to try.
>
> Nardil is best for social phobia/anxious depression, whereas Parnate is best for anergic depression/ADD. This is a gross generalization, though.Suppose that someone had both social phobia and ADD/ anergic depression? Does marplan split the difference between parnate and Nardil?
Posted by Mr. Scott on February 17, 2004, at 10:43:11
In reply to Re: Nardil (Phenelzine) vs Parnate (Tranylcypromine) » Mr. Scott, posted by cubbybear on February 16, 2004, at 23:16:17
Thanks CubbyBear I have a couple questions! (You aren't by chance from Chicago are you?)
What side effects have you attributed to Parnate? Does it work well for anxiety or have you not had a primary issue with anxiety? Tell me about the dietary and other restrictions you've had to live with, how has that been?
I tried Nardil years ago and it worked very well for a month. Then I went out and got drunk (as I used to do) and all I had left was side effects of water swelling and hypotension. I don't know If I experienced a hypomania and then a poop out, or if I deactivated the medicine with booze. Whatever the case I went off of it.
Thanks for your help!
Scott
Posted by Mr. Scott on February 17, 2004, at 10:53:40
In reply to Re: Nardil (Phenelzine) vs Parnate (Tranylcypromine) » Mr. Scott, posted by gardenergirl on February 17, 2004, at 9:36:26
Hello GG and thanks for posting!
How long have you been taking the Nardil? What Side Effects do you attribute to it?
Thanks Again,
Scott
Posted by gardenergirl on February 17, 2004, at 11:19:09
In reply to Re: Nardil (Phenelzine) vs Parnate (Tranylcypromine) » gardenergirl, posted by Mr. Scott on February 17, 2004, at 10:53:40
Mr. Scott,
I started at 45mg sometime in Sept. I recently went up to 60mg because I'm in grad school. The 45mg seemed to not be enough in times of increased stress (specifically, during my oral exams). Here is a post which talks about my SE's.http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20040210/msgs/313211.html
Take care,
gg
Posted by BackOfClass on February 17, 2004, at 12:35:37
In reply to Re: Nardil (Phenelzine) vs Parnate (Tranylcypromine) » Chairman_MAO, posted by zeugma on February 17, 2004, at 10:30:08
> > The right meds can only be found with cautious empirical investigation, but plenty on this board can make an educated guess if you describe what you're seeking to change with an MAOI. Do not forget that there is also Marplan to try.
> >
> > Nardil is best for social phobia/anxious depression, whereas Parnate is best for anergic depression/ADD. This is a gross generalization, though.
>
> Suppose that someone had both social phobia and ADD/ anergic depression? Does marplan split the difference between parnate and Nardil?
>
>Can someone answer this? I want to try an MAOI, but it cannot be combined with a stimulant. Has Parnate or any other MAOI been successful at treating ADD/ADHD?
Posted by Chairman_MAO on February 17, 2004, at 16:19:49
In reply to Re: Nardil (Phenelzine) vs Parnate (Tranylcypromine) » Chairman_MAO, posted by zeugma on February 17, 2004, at 10:30:08
This is what I have, heh, and I could rant on for at least 10 minutes straight about how frustrated I am that my doctor will not prescribe an MAOI, because aside from controlled substances, which I cannot have, they're really the only game in town for this (Wellbutrin is getting worse--at only 150mg--with the agitation every day, despite 900mg Trileptal).
Marplan is the "middle-of-the-road", but I am not familiar with it. However, if you can get benzos, just take Klonopin with Parnate. Parnate I'm sure is by far the best for ADD/anergic depression, and the Klonopin will help out the social phobia.
Contrary to popular belief, you CAN add a NE reuptake inhibitor to an MAOI, so another option would be Strattera + Nardil. This should help with energy somewhat and the Nardil will KILL the social phobia. If your ADD is mostly time management issues/memory and your focus is manageable when you are not depressed, you could try Nardil + acetylcholinesterase inhibitor (Aricept or Reminyl come to mind). A drug like this has a good chance of mitigating urinary retention as well as cognitive impairment.
A killer combo might also be Parnate + Klonopin + Reminyl (galantamine), because they found in eastern europe that galantamine reverses the sedation and cognitive impairment of benzodiazepines. As a matter of fact, I am quite sure that if you tried this you would be IMPRESSED. It would take at LEAST three months to get all of the dosages right, if not six or more.
Oh lord won't you get me an MAOI ...
Posted by zeugma on February 17, 2004, at 19:47:03
In reply to Re: Nardil (Phenelzine) vs Parnate (Tranylcypromine) » zeugma, posted by Chairman_MAO on February 17, 2004, at 16:19:49
> This is what I have, heh, and I could rant on for at least 10 minutes straight about how frustrated I am that my doctor will not prescribe an MAOI, because aside from controlled substances, which I cannot have, they're really the only game in town for this (Wellbutrin is getting worse--at only 150mg--with the agitation every day, despite 900mg Trileptal).
I can't take stimulants either, but for a different reason: I weigh only 122.5 lbs. (at five foot seven) and every stimulant I have ever been on took weight off FAST. Strattera's caused me to lose weight ,too, but not as bad: I'm down from a maximum weight of maybe 125.
>
> Marplan is the "middle-of-the-road", but I am not familiar with it. However, if you can get benzos, just take Klonopin with Parnate. Parnate I'm sure is by far the best for ADD/anergic depression, and the Klonopin will help out the social phobia.I'm sure Parnate is great for ADD, but there is frustratingly little information available about this. I can get benzos (though don't ask what i had to go through to get them): I was prescribed 0.5 mg Klonopin to start with, and it worked GREAT for my social anxiety. Unfortunately, it set off my hypnagogic hallucinations/narcolepsy; I developed these the night I went on klonopin. prior to that, they had completely gone away. Strattera is a good drug for narcolepsy.
>
> Contrary to popular belief, you CAN add a NE reuptake inhibitor to an MAOI, so another option would be Strattera + Nardil. This should help with energy somewhat and the Nardil will KILL the social phobia. If your ADD is mostly time management issues/memory and your focus is manageable when you are not depressed, you could try Nardil + acetylcholinesterase inhibitor (Aricept or Reminyl come to mind). A drug like this has a good chance of mitigating urinary retention as well as cognitive impairment.I'm afraid to take anything that increases ACh because that promotes REM and would probably set off my sleep disorder (narcolepsy). Parnate plus the tiny amount of clonazepam I'm on (0.25 mg) should be just as good for social anxiety as what i'm on now. Nardil plus Strattera? Well, if I did that, maybe I wouldn't have to take clonazepam at all, and I would like that, because as effective as it is, the weird electrical shocks/hypnagogic hallucinations I get from Klonopin when I miss any sleep are incredibly unpleasant. The only thing I would worry about would be Nardil's GABA effect; isn't this similar to Depakote or some other mood stabilizer, or even Klonopin itself? The selling point for Klonopin, for me, is that i can take a tiny dose, which keeps s/e to a minimum. (If it is Klonopin's effect on GABA that cause this side effect. It sounds suspiciously like SSRI/Effexor withdrawal, so I wonder if it is serotonergetic; in which case Nardil might not be so good.)
>
> A killer combo might also be Parnate + Klonopin + Reminyl (galantamine), because they found in eastern europe that galantamine reverses the sedation and cognitive impairment of benzodiazepines. As a matter of fact, I am quite sure that if you tried this you would be IMPRESSED. It would take at LEAST three months to get all of the dosages right, if not six or more.Galantamine? Not familiar with that one. I would think that if I were on parnate, there would be no sedation problem at all. The problem is; it is FRUSTRATING how little info there is on MAOI's. If the Nardil did not aggravate my narcolepsy, that plus Strattera, plus something to help me sleep, might be the perfect combo.
Anyway, the meds I'm on (nortriptyline, Strattera, plus buspirone and a pinch of K) seem to work much better when I get out of the house. There's some kind of 'activation' which keeps me from sinking into the fog, so I shouldn't be complaining. Of course, it isn't the same as having a properly functioning nervous system. But then, there's no substitute for that.
>
> Oh lord won't you get me an MAOI ...
>
Posted by ace on February 17, 2004, at 20:40:42
In reply to Nardil (Phenelzine) vs Parnate (Tranylcypromine), posted by Mr. Scott on February 16, 2004, at 22:25:54
>
> Has anyone tried these meds with good results? Which one is preferable as they are next on the list and I'll probably be on one next week.
>
> ScottHi, Nardil rocks my world! Unfortunately I suffered a clinical depression from Parnate. I must emphasis that many love Parnate, and some, like Cubbybear, have MANY excellant years on it...it works like a charm for some.
However, from the many, many anecdotes and clinical reports I have read, I would say Nardil is on top in terms of efficacy and amount of people who respond.
That being said, some respond better to Parnate, albeit rarely. Some respond well to both. Parnate, for the most part, does not have as many s/effects as Nardil. But Nardil's s/effects usually pass gradually.
IMO, both are excellant drugs and safe over the long run, and i wish you the best with whatever you try....
Ace
Posted by c ubbybear on February 18, 2004, at 1:40:32
In reply to Re: Nardil (Phenelzine) vs Parnate (Tranylcypromine) » Mr. Scott » cubbybear, posted by Mr. Scott on February 17, 2004, at 10:43:11
> Thanks CubbyBear I have a couple questions! (You aren't by chance from Chicago are you?)
No--originally from the East Coast then transplanted to Southern California in '88, have been living in Thailand since '97.
> What side effects have you attributed to Parnate?For the first few weeks only: a) increased craving for sweets and carbohydrates, b) weight gain to compensate for weight loss during depression (this is unusual, since most people who take Parnate experience weight loss), c) big dips and spikes on blood pressure, with low daily blood pressure of about 57/80 then later to normal 120/80, d) reduced need for sleep, can get by with as little as 5 hrs. per night and this side effect does not fade with time.
Does it work well for anxiety or have you not had a primary issue with anxiety?Bad anxiety has always been a symptom of my depression and Parnate has always knocked it out as well as all the other symptoms. I restarted Parnate in March 2003. Just this week, I had a major crisis at work and very disappointing development regarding my upcoming trip to the U.S. I was feeling very irate over the job problems and upset over the vacation, which would ordinarily have thrown the entire anxiety/depression machine into gear, but none of this happened and I've been able to make rational decisions and stay calm in the face of all this stressful crap.
Tell me about the dietary and other restrictions you've had to live with, how has that been?
I never had a hypertensive crisis since I was conditioned by my dr.back in '84 to stick with the rules. So it's been hard for me to accept the new findings that some cheeses are safe. I think that I'm going to be brave and try a small plain pizza during my trip. What's postively weird is that I never knew soy sauce was forbidden and I can't imagine having gone for so many years without ingesting soy sauce; I've had Chinese food in restaurants many times. So go figure it out. I believe that anyone who goes on an MAOI has a responsibility to him/herself to play by the rules, but you can definitely fudge it, if you discover after a little trial and error that it's OK for you. At the very least, have your BP tested regularly or buy one of those BP testers you can use at home.
As for cough and cold remedies, I don't screw around at all. Just let nature take its course. And I never forget to tell the dentist "No epinephrine!" when I need a pain injection. I've found that the safe analgesics are nowhere as good as those with epinephrine, but I'd rather have some dental pain for a few minutes than one day of depression.
I also like the fact that my pdoc has encouraged me to salt my food more heavily than normal. I've always had a salt craving, my BP has always been normal (I'm 55), I live in a hot climate where increased salt intake is a good idea. Not everyone should feel compelled to jump on the low-salt bandwagon.
>
I'm glad to be of help. Good luck!
Posted by c ubbybear on February 18, 2004, at 1:44:31
In reply to Re: Nardil (Phenelzine) vs Parnate (Tranylcypromine) » Chairman_MAO, posted by zeugma on February 17, 2004, at 10:30:08
Do not forget that there is also Marplan to try.
> >
Where are you from? Are you from the States? I've thought that Marplan was long ago discontinued in the U.S. I've always been intrigued about this drug and whether it would work as well as Parnate.
Posted by c ubbybear on February 18, 2004, at 1:47:55
In reply to Re: Nardil (Phenelzine) vs Parnate (Tranylcypromine) » Mr. Scott, posted by Chairman_MAO on February 17, 2004, at 10:25:39
Sorry Zeugma, my post about Marplan was intended for Chairman_MAO.
Posted by jaby on February 18, 2004, at 9:57:14
In reply to Re: Nardil (Phenelzine) vs Parnate (Tranylcypromine) » Mr. Scott, posted by gardenergirl on February 17, 2004, at 9:36:26
Is there a med that docs give you when you're on an MOAI that you can tae if you have a hypertensive crisis going on that will abate this state (antihyertensive). The MAOI world sounds great , but I don't wan to be questioning the ingrediensts list of every dish if I go oer to a friend or family function. Seems like people would lose weight on an MAOI perely out of fear. Basically, I would like to try Nardil and be careful about the diet, but don't can't afford trips to the ER. Thanks.
Posted by ace on February 18, 2004, at 19:46:25
In reply to Re: Nardil ) vs Parnate to all of you, posted by jaby on February 18, 2004, at 9:57:14
> Is there a med that docs give you when you're on an MOAI that you can tae if you have a hypertensive crisis going on that will abate this state (antihyertensive). The MAOI world sounds great , but I don't wan to be questioning the ingrediensts list of every dish if I go oer to a friend or family function. Seems like people would lose weight on an MAOI perely out of fear. Basically, I would like to try Nardil and be careful about the diet, but don't can't afford trips to the ER. Thanks.
NIFEDIPINE (adalat) OR thorazine- USE THE FORMER imo.....
Posted by Ilene on February 18, 2004, at 20:41:59
In reply to Nardil (Phenelzine) vs Parnate (Tranylcypromine), posted by Mr. Scott on February 16, 2004, at 22:25:54
>
> Has anyone tried these meds with good results? Which one is preferable as they are next on the list and I'll probably be on one next week.
>
> ScottI'm on my 6th day of Marplan. Its SE profile is between Nardil and Parnate. It was unavailable in the US for a while, then purchased from the original manufacturer by another company a few years back.
I.
Posted by Mr. Scott on February 18, 2004, at 22:51:01
In reply to Re: Nardil ) vs Parnate to all of you, posted by jaby on February 18, 2004, at 9:57:14
Can these two be combined? My doctor is about to make it happen, and I know there is a contraindication there because Trileptal is basically Tegretol. Has anyone tried this combo or have any thoughts?
Posted by cubbybear on February 19, 2004, at 4:25:27
In reply to Re: Nardil (Phenelzine) vs Parnate (Tranylcypromin, posted by Ilene on February 18, 2004, at 20:41:59
> I'm on my 6th day of Marplan. Its SE profile is between Nardil and Parnate. It was unavailable in the US for a while, then purchased from the original manufacturer by another company a few years back.I'm amazed! I had thought that Marplan was still unavailable. This is great to know, just in case there was ever a major screwup with Parnate (as there was last year with Nardil availability, and now with Nardil's reformulation). I'm very curious about Marplan.
Can you answer: What are your depression symptoms?What dose of Marplan are you on?
Side effects?
YOUR PRICE PER TABLET OR PER 100?
Have you had experience with Parnate, so you can compare?
How about posting your feelings day-by-day until it kicks in?
Thanks for any info you can give.
cubbybear
>
Posted by Ilene on February 19, 2004, at 8:12:01
In reply to Re: Nardil (Phenelzine) vs Parnate (Tranylcypromin » Ilene, posted by cubbybear on February 19, 2004, at 4:25:27
>
> > I'm on my 6th day of Marplan. Its SE profile is between Nardil and Parnate. It was unavailable in the US for a while, then purchased from the original manufacturer by another company a few years back.
>
> I'm amazed! I had thought that Marplan was still unavailable. This is great to know, just in case there was ever a major screwup with Parnate (as there was last year with Nardil availability, and now with Nardil's reformulation). I'm very curious about Marplan.
> Can you answer: What are your depression symptoms?
>
> What dose of Marplan are you on?
>
> Side effects?
>
> YOUR PRICE PER TABLET OR PER 100?
>
> Have you had experience with Parnate, so you can compare?
>
> How about posting your feelings day-by-day until it kicks in?
>
> Thanks for any info you can give.
> cubbybear
> >
>
>
Okay. I'll start a new thread. I'll call it "Marplan Diary"I.
Posted by Maxime on February 22, 2004, at 13:59:36
In reply to Parnate and Trileptal, posted by Mr. Scott on February 18, 2004, at 22:51:01
> Can these two be combined? My doctor is about to make it happen, and I know there is a contraindication there because Trileptal is basically Tegretol. Has anyone tried this combo or have any thoughts?
I take them together. One of the things about Trileptal is because it is an oxygenated version of Tegretol many of the side effects and drug interactions do not apply. I take 80 mg of Parnate and 600 mg of Trileptal. No problems.
Maxime
Posted by Mr. Scott on February 22, 2004, at 16:27:16
In reply to Re: Parnate and Trileptal, posted by Maxime on February 22, 2004, at 13:59:36
Thanks for your Post Maxime! What if anything else can you tell me about your experiences with this combo?
Thanks very much!
Scott
This is the end of the thread.
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