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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 29. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on February 12, 2004, at 18:33:26
This is all I can say.
I am taking Celexa, Tegrotol, and Zyprexa.
I think I should just kill myself.
I might have bipolar, lithium worked but
is useless in university. If I have to go
on mood stabalizers there is not much point
to living.Living on lithium was like loosing everything that
made life interesting. I quit lithium because
quite frankly I don't want kidney dammage.
Posted by lepus on February 12, 2004, at 18:57:30
In reply to I don't even know who I am anymore, posted by linkadge on February 12, 2004, at 18:33:26
> This is all I can say.
>
> I am taking Celexa, Tegrotol, and Zyprexa.
>
> I think I should just kill myself.
>
> I might have bipolar, lithium worked but
> is useless in university. If I have to go
> on mood stabalizers there is not much point
> to living.
>
> Living on lithium was like loosing everything that
> made life interesting. I quit lithium because
> quite frankly I don't want kidney dammage.
>
>
>
>
>Why is there no point in going on if you have to go on a mood stabilizer? I am not sure I understand. What scares you about the other ones available to the extent that you would kill yourself? What if one makes you feel better (or a combination)?
Posted by linkadge on February 12, 2004, at 19:01:12
In reply to Re: I don't even know who I am anymore, posted by lepus on February 12, 2004, at 18:57:30
The ones I have taken, all take away my ability to think clearly. I got to where I am now because of what I can do. When I was on lithium, my marks dropped from high 80's to barely passing.
I just don't know what to do. The problem is that all the current mood stabalizers treat all brain cells the same. As well as taming down emotion, they also tame down cognition.
Linkadge
Posted by SummerSanders on February 12, 2004, at 19:04:11
In reply to Re: I don't even know who I am anymore, posted by lepus on February 12, 2004, at 18:57:30
How does the zyprexa make you feel? You might just need a new pysch doc..Some of them are serious quacks..I have been to many myself this year and refused those mood stablizers they so quickly want to give you. I would find a new doc, please don't do anything rash.
Posted by lepus on February 12, 2004, at 19:56:58
In reply to Re: I don't even know who I am anymore, posted by linkadge on February 12, 2004, at 19:01:12
Which mood stabilizers have you tried? At what doses? Has the pdoc been willing to listen to you about your grades and know that the side effects were unacceptable? He should work with you on that issue. Falling grades really aren't acceptable with proper treatment so I guess you aren't getting proper treatment and you do need to find another pdoc if you can. There are a lot of options out there for you so please do seek another doctor and do not give up for a very long time. A solution can be found. I gather that you are fairly young in that you are still in school so you have time. Please stick around to find the solution. There are so many variables and so many med combinations that a right mix for you has to be out there. Your job now is to not give up and to find it. Please keep posting and let us know how you are.
Posted by john1022 on February 12, 2004, at 21:06:20
In reply to Re: I don't even know who I am anymore, posted by lepus on February 12, 2004, at 19:56:58
have you tried lithium orotate. My doctor thinks I might possibly be bipolar. I am not tolerant of most other medications. lithium orotate doesn't have the side effects and seems to be helping me. my doctor practices both normal psych meds and alternative meds and says they have had a lot of success using lithium orotate. it might be worth a shot if you have never tried it before
Posted by Lazarus on February 12, 2004, at 21:41:57
In reply to I don't even know who I am anymore, posted by linkadge on February 12, 2004, at 18:33:26
Add Strattera to your med cocktail. It improves cognition. I take it and it works wonders.
Don't throw in the towel quite yet my friend.
Lazarus
Posted by Camille Dumont on February 12, 2004, at 22:59:56
In reply to I don't even know who I am anymore, posted by linkadge on February 12, 2004, at 18:33:26
What dosages are you on? Maybe it is too high? I know my wacko doc gave me Zyprexa 5mg to start with ... just to amplify the AD ... and I was like a zombie ... no thoughts ... no personality ... it was like there was a giant vice around my skull, constricting all my mind.
To quote my pdoc ... if the meds make you feel like a zombie and ill all the time then the treatment is NOT working ... as in its time to look for other options ... make further physical tests and such ....
Don't give up!
Maybe you can see another doctor to get a better opinion.
Posted by Keith Talent on February 12, 2004, at 23:50:41
In reply to I don't even know who I am anymore, posted by linkadge on February 12, 2004, at 18:33:26
> This is all I can say.
>
> I am taking Celexa, Tegrotol, and Zyprexa.
>
> I think I should just kill myself.
>
> I might have bipolar, lithium worked but
> is useless in university. If I have to go
> on mood stabalizers there is not much point
> to living.
>
> Living on lithium was like loosing everything that
> made life interesting. I quit lithium because
> quite frankly I don't want kidney dammage.
>
>
>
>
>
You need a definitive diagnosis - "might have bipolar" isn't good enough. I'd advise that unless you have clear manic episodes, don't risk the horrible side effects of mood stabilisers. I was once diagnosed with bipolar II disorder, but have come to the realisation that it is only relevant (in terms of my global functioning) to worry about treating the depressive episodes.Depersonalisation/derealisation (what you described) have been reported as side effects of SSRIs. It sounds like you could use an antidepressant with more activating properties to cut through the fog and get you back to studying smart and hard.
Posted by linkadge on February 13, 2004, at 6:32:23
In reply to Re: I don't even know who I am anymore, posted by Keith Talent on February 12, 2004, at 23:50:41
The problem is that there is just nothing left to my brain.
I am pretty sure that I have had a partial stroke or something in the night. I cannot see properly.
It is so horrible to remember how I used to feel.
Last year I was taking just celexa. I never felt more normal or so content with life. I was doing well in school and I had a reason to live. No manic episodes or anything.I stopped taking the celexa (which was dumb)
I got very depressed, and ever since I started taking it again I just have not been normal. It made me go haywire. Lithium, zyprexa, epival, and tegrotol just seem to make me a nobody. They all seem to completely disintigrate any self esteem. Everything that makes you feel that you have a chance, they take away. They take away intuition and insight.Linkadge
Posted by Emme on February 13, 2004, at 7:51:09
In reply to I don't even know who I am anymore, posted by linkadge on February 12, 2004, at 18:33:26
Have you tried Lamictal? It seems to not have cognitive effects.
You may be able to tolerate a MS with the right augmenting agent, which you haven't found yet. Have you tried selegiline or provigil? They might cut through some of the zombie-ness and help your brain stay more alert and perk you up overall. Think about emantine? Selegiline + memantine?
Did the visual probelm come on gradually or quickly? Did it start when you took any particular drug? If you aren't able to see properly, you've gotta have that checked out. Internist, ophthamologist, neurologist. Start tackling that.
Good luck and please don't throw in the towel just yet. Keep us posted.
Emme
Posted by ann72 on February 13, 2004, at 14:16:04
In reply to Re: I don't even know who I am anymore » linkadge, posted by Emme on February 13, 2004, at 7:51:09
Linkage, I was where you are a few years ago. I seriously think zyprexa is horrible. I also took lithium and depoke and paxil all at the same time. I barley remember that time in my life. I finally just threw them all away. And yes, my depression/anxiety crept back. I am now on effexor and lamitcal and I think its going to work for me----why dont u try lamitcal also, its not like lithium --
Good Luck
Posted by Maxime on February 14, 2004, at 12:01:52
In reply to I don't even know who I am anymore, posted by linkadge on February 12, 2004, at 18:33:26
I just wanted to give you hug ((( Linkadge ))).
Maxime
> This is all I can say.
>
> I am taking Celexa, Tegrotol, and Zyprexa.
>
> I think I should just kill myself.
>
> I might have bipolar, lithium worked but
> is useless in university. If I have to go
> on mood stabalizers there is not much point
> to living.
>
> Living on lithium was like loosing everything that
> made life interesting. I quit lithium because
> quite frankly I don't want kidney dammage.
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by linkadge on February 14, 2004, at 13:15:03
In reply to Re: I don't even know who I am anymore, posted by Maxime on February 14, 2004, at 12:01:52
I need a hug. I havn't cried in almost a year.
I had a -cumulative- attack of sadness. I have these flasbacks of what life used to be. I can see them but I just can't live them.
I think I'm running after something that isn't there.
Going back on lithium. It is a downer, but hopefully it will keep me alive.
Linkadge
Posted by Camille Dumont on February 14, 2004, at 14:05:23
In reply to Re: I don't even know who I am anymore, posted by linkadge on February 14, 2004, at 13:15:03
(((Hug)))
Don't give up. Some meds can be horrible sometimes and make you become someone who's not really you.
Never felt more suicidal than when I was on Zyprexa ... because I thought "if this is what life is going to be ... a confused haze without meaning ... then I'd rather not be".
I was afraid that it was robbing me if my thoughts ... of my mind ... which I felt was like the only "good thing" about me ... thus taking my only reason for living.
What helped me imensly was both simple and life saving ... is getting pets. Since I couldn't and still can't rationalize why I'd want to live, I got pets ... so I go on living for them because they need me ... no matter how bad I feel or how sick I am they like me and love me and are always happy to see me. It cheers me up and its the number one reason that I don't attempt suicide.
If I die, nobody will be there for them. I have 4 norwegian rats ... and most people are prejudiced against them so they'd probably end up put to sleep if I were gone. So I go on ... I live. Even if for them ... even if its a temporaty thing ... a sort of band aid on the pain but it keeps me going.
If I feel suicidal I plop my rats on me and go play with them ... its hard to stay depressed when you have one rat's nose and whiskers tickling the inside of your ear, another one giving you a "manucure" and two of them having a wrestling match inside your shirt.
Its not always possible for people to get pets but it can help ... even if just a fish ... its still an ally on your side ... someone who will always root for you no matter what.
Posted by linkadge on February 15, 2004, at 6:58:59
In reply to Re: I don't even know who I am anymore, posted by Camille Dumont on February 14, 2004, at 14:05:23
I quit the zyprexa. It did keep me down, but I was like the part of me that I recognise as myself was just simply switched off.
Lithium just seems to tame things down, not shut them off completely.
I hope it works again.
Linkadge
Posted by allye on February 15, 2004, at 12:13:29
In reply to I don't even know who I am anymore, posted by linkadge on February 12, 2004, at 18:33:26
Sending another "hug" your way. Is your psychiatrist receptive to discussing all your legimate and emotional fears about meds? If not, can you find someone who is, or at least a sympathetic counselor in adjunct to your psychiatrist? I ask this because I'm concerned that your stopping meds on your own is doing you more harm than the actual meds. Also, compassion and interest in a doctor is, itself, the most powerful med, IMO.
In reading some of your other posts, you seem to have wonderful artistic and intellectual gifts- speaking from my experience, any treatment option is going to lessen them to some extent. Keep trying to find the formula you can live with, because your life and gifts, even subdued, are better than death or uncontrolled bipolar.
For what it's worth to you in your decision making, I've decided not to worry about liver, kidney damage. I'm an American renal dietitan and have learned from my patients that a great life is possible on dialysis, and the US is lightyears behind Europe with dialysis outcomes. Also, liver transplants with concomitant doner bone marrow require almost no anti-rejection meds.
Even if the above advances weren't available, I beleive "good brain chemistry" years are worth a shortened lifespan.
"hugs" again- Allye
Posted by BJlass on February 15, 2004, at 15:35:38
In reply to Re: I don't even know who I am anymore, posted by linkadge on February 12, 2004, at 19:01:12
To: "I don't even know who I am anymore.": Can you possibly try to wean yourself off EVERYTHING? Then see how you feel. 3 drugs is just too damn many!
Posted by zeugma on February 15, 2004, at 16:14:35
In reply to Re: I don't even know who I am anymore, posted by BJlass on February 15, 2004, at 15:35:38
> To: "I don't even know who I am anymore.": Can you possibly try to wean yourself off EVERYTHING? Then see how you feel. 3 drugs is just too damn many!
Some people need 3 (or more) drugs to function. maybe you are a lot better off without meds, but you can't generalize that to everyone.
Posted by linkadge on February 16, 2004, at 7:22:48
In reply to Re: I don't even know who I am anymore, posted by allye on February 15, 2004, at 12:13:29
I don't know if you could take lithium while on dialysis.
I have a question if you don't mind.
I know so little.with regular monitoring, is it possible to detect these problems before progress too far? (in order to change to another medication?)
ThanksLinkadge
Posted by Kacy on February 16, 2004, at 15:11:48
In reply to Re: I don't even know who I am anymore, posted by linkadge on February 16, 2004, at 7:22:48
Posted by allye on February 16, 2004, at 22:43:31
In reply to Re: I don't even know who I am anymore, posted by linkadge on February 16, 2004, at 7:22:48
Dialysis removes lithium, so that wouldn't work. But bipolar dialysis patients can take some of the antipsychotics or anticonvulsants for mania.
BUN and creatinine are routine tests that can tell you early on if your kidneys are being damaged by lithium.
Having worked in the dialysis field for six years, I still would choose- no contest!- kidney failure over untreated biolar disorder.
Hope this helps- Allye
> I don't know if you could take lithium while on dialysis.
>
> I have a question if you don't mind.
> I know so little.
>
> with regular monitoring, is it possible to detect these problems before progress too far? (in order to change to another medication?)
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Linkadge
Posted by allye on February 17, 2004, at 9:20:04
In reply to Re: I don't even know who I am anymore, posted by allye on February 16, 2004, at 22:43:31
In the six years I've been doing this job I've carried a patient load of appx 130- have been moved around from clinic to clinic to keep the numbers right and cover shortages,wehave to list cause of renal failure on our initial assessments and biannual assessment updates. I've never seen lithium as the cause. Mostly it's hypertension, diabetes and some inherited genetic disorders. Occasionally we'll have recreational drug use, cancer chemotherapy, long-term use of tylenol or NSAIDS such as ibuprofen, even a few strep throat cases. So after dealing with hundreds of patients, I've never personally seen lithium as the cause. There are probably statistics out there, but I'm very comfortable with it. Again, hope this helps lessen your very legitimate fears. I would be worried, too, without the first hand knowledge. Just keep up with your lab monitoring and you should be fine. Allye
> Dialysis removes lithium, so that wouldn't work. But bipolar dialysis patients can take some of the antipsychotics or anticonvulsants for mania.
>
> BUN and creatinine are routine tests that can tell you early on if your kidneys are being damaged by lithium.
>
> Having worked in the dialysis field for six years, I still would choose- no contest!- kidney failure over untreated biolar disorder.
>
> Hope this helps- Allye
>
>
>
> > I don't know if you could take lithium while on dialysis.
> >
> > I have a question if you don't mind.
> > I know so little.
> >
> > with regular monitoring, is it possible to detect these problems before progress too far? (in order to change to another medication?)
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Linkadge
>
>
Posted by KimberlyDi on February 17, 2004, at 12:46:40
In reply to Re: I don't even know who I am anymore, posted by BJlass on February 15, 2004, at 15:35:38
Posted by Emme on February 17, 2004, at 14:01:03
In reply to Re: I don't even know who I am anymore, posted by BJlass on February 15, 2004, at 15:35:38
Wiping the slate clean and starting fresh isn't a terrible idea. But it can be risky and you'd better be prepared and have some *awfully* tight supervision! If you should get interested in trying it, you and your pdoc would have to weigh the risks.
I did it once. It helped to see what symptoms were due to meds (physical symptoms, fatigue, etc.). BUT, a few weeks after everything was cleared out, I took a major nosedive and we had to get going with a new stragegy (which was more or less what we expected). My therapist thinks that if I were to ever try it again, I'd have to do it in an inpatient setting.
I do think a combination of three drugs is reasonable if you find a mixture where you feel okay and don't have terrible side effects.
I hope you're hanging in there.
Emme
> To: "I don't even know who I am anymore.": Can you possibly try to wean yourself off EVERYTHING? Then see how you feel. 3 drugs is just too damn many!
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