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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by FredPotter on January 5, 2003, at 14:28:45
In reply to Re: BENZODIAZEPINES ARE NOT THE ANSWER » syringachalet, posted by johnj on January 3, 2003, at 15:24:03
"only you can cure you" reminds me of when I was very ill and unable to help myself. My health worker turned up because I'd failed to turn up to an appointment. She said, "I can help you but I can't rescue you". I sighed and thought, "quoting from a behaviourist book isn't going to help".
Posted by johnj on January 5, 2003, at 15:58:07
In reply to Re: BENZODIAZEPINES ARE NOT THE ANSWER, posted by FredPotter on January 5, 2003, at 14:28:45
8
Posted by comftnumb on January 5, 2003, at 23:47:44
In reply to Re: BENZODIAZEPINES ARE NOT THE ANSWER » micky301, posted by HIBA on January 5, 2003, at 0:51:32
Ever since I started taking 2mg Klonopin a day in late October my libido has been very low. I have blamed this on a prohormone (1-AD) I started taking at the same time as Klonopin. One of the side effects of 1-AD is decreased libido. However, this side-effect disappears once you stop taking the prohormone.
I stopped taking 1-AD 6 weeks ago but my libido is still shit. I can still perform sexually but the level of arousal is extremely low. I'm starting to think that Klonopin may be playing a role.
Has anyone else experienced low libido on Klonopin. It doesn't seem to be a listed side-effect, so I have been reluctant to mention this to my psychiatrist as of yet.
I can't come up with any other explanation as to why my libido has decreased so much. Thanks in advance!!!
Posted by Mr.Scott on January 5, 2003, at 23:52:31
In reply to Re: Can Klonopin or other benzo cause libido loss?, posted by comftnumb on January 5, 2003, at 23:47:44
Yes it can definately lower libido. Maybe you could try lowering the dose a smidge and see if things improve.
Also it can cause weight gain which you rarely hear about either.
It's still an imperfect world.
Posted by HIBA on January 6, 2003, at 22:48:13
In reply to Re: Can Klonopin or other benzo cause libido loss?, posted by comftnumb on January 5, 2003, at 23:47:44
This is a rare side effect of klonopin. Excessive sedation could be the reason. In such cases, lowering the dosage will help. If sedation is no more needed switching to librium will often solve the problem. Tranxene is another option.
While I was on klonopin, there was no problem with libido on a low dosage (1 mg a day). When I made an increase I had some problems with libido, which resolved over time. (As we know tolerance to the sedative effects often occur and I think that made the difference). Benzodiazepines have no direct adverse effects on sexual function, but the excessive sedation will always dampen libido. Fine tuning of dosage will usually restore the normal desire. Good luck,
HIBA
Posted by Joanie on January 7, 2003, at 13:36:07
In reply to Re: Can Klonopin or other benzo cause libido loss?, posted by comftnumb on January 5, 2003, at 23:47:44
Yes! Yes! Yes! It makes me numb like you and have a total lack of desire. I've noticed if I don't use it for a few days, I have a little desire starting to come back to me.
Posted by worrier on January 11, 2003, at 19:15:35
In reply to Re: BENZODIAZEPINES ARE NOT THE ANSWER » micky301, posted by HIBA on January 5, 2003, at 0:51:32
Just wanted to say that I think you summed things up quite well. I am curious as to why the whole benzo topic gets everyone so emotional. I thought we were here to help each other if we can or at least support each other. I'm sure benzos are not the answer for everyone. I am equally sure they are the answer for some. I happen to be one who has been saved by them. SSRIs brought me to the point of considering suicide and absolutely knowing I would either die or go completely insane. But I would never tell anyone that SSRIs are not the answer. The answer is whatever you as a unique individual can find to get you through. I wish I didn't need any meds, but I most obviously do and think I probably always will. Many of us probably fall into that category. Let's not judge each other based on how our brains respond to a particular chemical. Best wishes to all, worrier.
Posted by irwind on January 22, 2004, at 22:59:29
In reply to Re: BENZODIAZEPINES ARE NOT THE ANSWER » HIBA, posted by worrier on January 11, 2003, at 19:15:35
Is it ok for some one to take benzos for life. do you know of any one who is doing it. i consider the analagy of insulin dependence as in the case of diabetese. i am considering benzos for anxiety and insomnia. there are so many benzos and what is the best worst when it comes to the issue of developing tolerance.
Posted by theo on January 23, 2004, at 9:36:17
In reply to Re: BENZODIAZEPINES ARE NOT THE ANSWER, posted by irwind on January 22, 2004, at 22:59:29
The new Xanax XR provides once daily dosing (half life closer to Klonopin) cutting down on overuse and even discontinuing when and if you need to. My doctor likes this better than Klonopin because it doesn't seem to make people as sluggish and acts more as an AD also.
Posted by Cyrus on January 24, 2004, at 12:35:03
In reply to Re: BENZODIAZEPINES ARE NOT THE ANSWER, posted by irwind on January 22, 2004, at 22:59:29
> Is it ok for some one to take benzos for life. do you know of any one who is doing it. i consider the analagy of insulin dependence as in the case of diabetese. i am considering benzos for anxiety and insomnia. there are so many benzos and what is the best worst when it comes to the issue of developing tolerance.
On them 15 yrs here. Ones with a long half life seem best. With regular Xanax (short half life)it's tough to deal with the "on" again "off" again effects. I alway discuss this topic with my PDoc.
He doesn't see any problem as long as dose is kept as low as necessary. I have never had tolerance develop with valium or librium. Doses of these feel exactly the same as the first time I took them. And yes I dreaded filling the prescription the first time. Just have to respect them.
Forget about alcohol with these, imo. Both effect CNS. Can be quite dangerous to combine.
Posted by Jaynee on January 24, 2004, at 13:13:36
In reply to Re: BENZODIAZEPINES ARE NOT THE ANSWER, posted by Cyrus on January 24, 2004, at 12:35:03
Posted by ian33 on January 24, 2004, at 20:44:20
In reply to The Truth About Clonazepam, posted by john7219 on December 25, 2002, at 23:48:30
I think that your comparison with heroin is wrong. Heroin makes you feel 1000% times better than Klonopin and is much much harder to get off. It all depends on the person . I weaned off zanax, which is more addictive than Klonpin. It took nine months but so what? My brother came off of 120 mgs of Oxycontin and 1200 mgs of nuerontin in 10 days. People stop heroin at home . If you can't stop it may be because you have really bad anxiety or you maybe pay too much attention to your symproms as I do.I'm not just saying this bc I take Klonopin but bc I have bad anxiety and I stopped Zanaz which is much worse
Posted by ian33 on January 24, 2004, at 20:46:26
In reply to For some they are (nm), posted by Jaynee on January 24, 2004, at 13:13:36
Yes , I agree.
Posted by irwind on January 25, 2004, at 1:14:45
In reply to Re: BENZODIAZEPINES ARE NOT THE ANSWER, posted by Cyrus on January 24, 2004, at 12:35:03
i am seriously considering benzos as an option for my insomnia problems. i read something in one of the posts previously where some one was clarifying something about benzos and medication in general for psychiatric ilnesses. it said finding the right dose and medication that works for you is a tricky thing and has destroyed lives but the ILLNESS ITSELF IS THE MAJOR REASON FOR DESTROYING LIVES. the second part of the sentence which i have typed in caps. just screamed out at me. it is so true. i personally believe meds dont destroy lives and can only help a person live hi/her life more comfortably, make him a more functional person - basically improve quality of life. i have some concerns about benzos i will be happy if someone can clarify these questions for me. I am aware that people develop tolerance during the course of medication. please some one tell me how often does the dose need to be upped.
i mean i heard some where after a while the whole thing settles down and you really wont need to keep increasing the dose after a particular point.
can any one tell me any thing about my above concern. i mean like how many times approximately will the dose need to be upped before the dose wont need to be altered. one more thing like i am considering this option for long term use may be even life. so what if it mean i have to do it, i will it is probably better than coping without it (benzos that is). is there any serious down side to it. i would like to know.
thanks in advance.
Posted by Tiss on January 25, 2004, at 10:42:51
In reply to Re: BENZODIAZEPINES ARE NOT THE ANSWER » Cyrus, posted by irwind on January 25, 2004, at 1:14:45
This is obviously a very controversial issue but one that I wish would be settled among the medical community but probably never will be. First, have you tried other meds like the SSRI's? They are supposed to be good for anxiety and depression. THey make me manic as all get out so they are out for me. What about the mood stabilizers such as lithium, lamictal,etc? Sometimes they work too. I would say exhaust all options before going the benzo route.I am 47 and have tried so many meds that it's unbelievable and that is how I came to start using the benzos to help me. However, I use them only as directed and am careful with them however I know I'm still dependent on them and it will be hard getting off of them. Are you working with a psychiatrist? That is another thing I would do. GP's can be great but do not in general have a great understanding of psychiatric illnesses. If you do decide to go the benzo route you might try the new Xanax XR (extended release)-once a day dosing that releases the meds slowly throughout the day so the need for taking a bunch of pills and going through 'mini'withdrawals is reduced. Good luck. ALthough the benzos have given me better quality of life I still feel guilty every day about taking them! I wish they made a pill for guilt! Good luck, Tiss
Posted by silmarilone on January 25, 2004, at 20:35:00
In reply to Re: BENZODIAZEPINES ARE NOT THE ANSWER, posted by Tiss on January 25, 2004, at 10:42:51
The reason there is so much pushing of SSRI's etc over benzo's is that there are no new benzo's out there making billions of dollars for the pharmaceutical companies. They will always push newer meds, because that's where the money is. SSRI's and other meds are much worse for you than benzos, from what I've read.
Posted by Alexander on January 26, 2004, at 10:11:27
In reply to Re: BENZODIAZEPINES ARE NOT THE ANSWER, posted by silmarilone on January 25, 2004, at 20:35:00
na na na,
we don't know that, yet. Give it another 10 years.But benzos, while in my opinion a very useful tool has its very devastating disadvantages. ...and I am not talking about tolerance. I am talking of your short-term memory going down the drain.
I believe we must always weigh pro vs. contra, and what we must keep in mind, at all times, is to quality of life, that is to regain quality of life.
My 50 cents
> The reason there is so much pushing of SSRI's etc over benzo's is that there are no new benzo's out there making billions of dollars for the pharmaceutical companies. They will always push newer meds, because that's where the money is. SSRI's and other meds are much worse for you than benzos, from what I've read.
>
>
Posted by scottlaen on January 26, 2004, at 17:32:08
In reply to The Truth About Clonazepam, posted by john7219 on December 25, 2002, at 23:48:30
> This drug is seriously one of the most addictive drugs known to man.
- This is a load of crap. Caffeine and Cigarettes are much more addictive. Also - I think you need to distinguish between addictive and habit-forming. While there are some physical withdrawal associate w/all Benzodiazepines, they are not nearly as severe as the drugs you claim are easier to get off of.
I believe I could go through a year long combined cocaine and heroin binge, while still taking my usual nightly dose of clonazepam of course, walk away from the narcotics, and still be at the pharmacist counter the next day awaiting the refill of my beloved/wretched clonazepam RX!
-Lol- if you didn't OD first from your cocaine and heroin binge
Eight years and counting people, with the slightest decrease in my dosage resulting in a sleeplessness night filled with feelings of hell related symptoms.
- Hmm- did you ever think that the medicine was actually effective in treating your condition? Benzodiazepines are safe, have the least side effects, and are the most effective medications for treating many different diseases/conditions including epilepsy, anxiety, panic disorder, and insomnia
Maybe it's just your mental malfunction returning when you mess w/your dosage.
> Any fool on this board who claims clonazepam is not addictive, since it has a relatively long half life, should return their pharmacology degree which was mailed to them. Valium has a long half life, Clonazepam does NOT! This stuff is INCREDIBLY ADDICTIVE!!!!!
wrong- Clonazepam has a very long half-life compared to others in it's class, making it one of the least addictive. Valium has a SHORTER half life, and Xanax has one of the shortest, making it wear off in an hour or even less, making you want to take it more frequently.
Do yourself and the world a favor, stay on your meds- that's why they exist.
Posted by tedar on January 26, 2004, at 18:24:18
In reply to Re: BENZODIAZEPINES ARE NOT THE ANSWER, posted by Alexander on January 26, 2004, at 10:11:27
> na na na,
> we don't know that, yet. Give it another 10 years.
>
> But benzos, while in my opinion a very useful tool has its very devastating disadvantages. ...and I am not talking about tolerance. I am talking of your short-term memory going down the drain.
>
> I believe we must always weigh pro vs. contra, and what we must keep in mind, at all times, is to quality of life, that is to regain quality of life.
>
> My 50 cents
>
> > The reason there is so much pushing of SSRI's etc over benzo's is that there are no new benzo's out there making billions of dollars for the pharmaceutical companies. They will always push newer meds, because that's where the money is. SSRI's and other meds are much worse for you than benzos, from what I've read.
> >
> >
>
>
There is a lot of truth to what you say about the Pharma companies positioning the SSRIs so high, that Benzos have been forced to take a second and third treatment choice.Itwasn't realized until several years after, the extent of sexual dysfunctin the SSRIS caused, as well as apathy, withdrawals and mania etc. But the benzos had picked up such a bad rap, largely because of poor prescribing decisions in the 70s and 80s, that The consumer could easily be manipulated into believing that the SSRIs had to be the ultimate panacea.
Arguably one could say that the Benzos are better drug choices for many patients thsn the SSRIs, as their effects are predictable and impressive,patients actually rarely abuse the Benzos, and the question of major tolerance seems to be controversial, as many psych experts have noted that a majority of their patients, when they reach their most optimal dose, almost never continue to have to increase it.One could argue that the Benzos offer maybe a better path to the future, research wise, than the SSRIs, as much of the current thought points to the Gaba system as potentially offering the best approach route toward future treatment of mood disorders, because they influence not just Serotonin, but seem to influence dopamine and Norepinephrine chemistry as well
Posted by ace on January 26, 2004, at 18:53:57
In reply to Re: BENZODIAZEPINES ARE NOT THE ANSWER, posted by irwind on January 22, 2004, at 22:59:29
They are brilliant and when used sensibly have little dependence problem....I think they are much safer than Paxil or something like that...never heard so many horror w/drawals as Paxil....Benzos can be taken life long without problem...
Posted by tedar on January 26, 2004, at 23:18:20
In reply to Re: BENZODIAZEPINES are brilliant...and underrated, posted by ace on January 26, 2004, at 18:53:57
> They are brilliant and when used sensibly have little dependence problem....I think they are much safer than Paxil or something like that...never heard so many horror w/drawals as Paxil....Benzos can be taken life long without problem...
>I don't know that I would say that the Benzos are safer, but the withdrawal phenomenon of Paxil and Effexor, as well as Lexapro/Celexa is certainly very nasty. Benzos have allowed many people to carry on with their lives in a much more fulfilling manner for many years. I also don't feel that a person suffering from really severe anxious depression could ever be managed by an SSRI alone. A Benzo almost has to be onboard. Why not start with the Benzo. See if once the anxiety is controlled, whether the depression will lift, and not vice versa. I think a lot of physicians are missing the boat when they put a vry anxious depressed patient on an SSRI before they try a Benzo, regardless of the dependency issues. Because dependency refers to any drug that a patient counts on to maintain his quality of life.
Benzodiazepine development should have continued with great endeavor, but there was a large non empathetic part of the Medical profession that wanted a strong prison sentence for the benzos because of their own erratic prescribing, and patients are still paying the price for this.Take for instance Bipolar 2, where the mania can exhibit itself as anxiety/agitation. Klonopin. lorazepam, and even Xanax would be better choices than depakote, topomax, and trileptal etc.
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 26, 2004, at 23:37:36
In reply to Re: The Truth About Clonazepam » john7219, posted by scottlaen on January 26, 2004, at 17:32:08
> This is a load of crap.
Please be sensitive to the feelings of others and don't post anything that could lead them to feel accused or put down.
If you have any questions about this or comments about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways to express yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
or redirect a follow-up to Psycho-Babble Administration. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by girl1969 on January 27, 2004, at 0:22:57
In reply to Re: BENZODIAZEPINES ARE NOT THE ANSWER » Cyrus, posted by irwind on January 25, 2004, at 1:14:45
Sorry if this question has already been asked and answered, but have you tried anything like Ambien or a low dose of Trazadone? I have taken both for insomnia and they have worked well for me in the short term.
I can't take benzos because I have a paradoxical reaction to them...they make me manic. I was on a huge dose of klonopin for 2 years and it wasn't until I met my current pdoc that someone figured out it was making me more crazy than less.
Of course, my case is really strange and I can almost guarantee that this isn't the case for you.
I went through a bad period of withdrawal after I discontinued the klonopin. It was more physical than psychological and very uncomforable. I have no interest in getting into a debate with others as to whether it's addictive or not, so I'll leave it at that.
I know people who have been a low dose of benzos for life and it has helped them to function much more effectively.
Best of luck,
Girl
Posted by Maxime on January 27, 2004, at 10:23:43
In reply to Re: The Truth About Clonazepam » john7219, posted by scottlaen on January 26, 2004, at 17:32:08
I used clonazapam as a mood stabiliser for BP1. It's the only thing that helps. It's also the only benzo approved for bipolar. It's also different from the other benzos in it's chemical make-up. I have been on the same 4 mg dosage for 7 years now with no need to increase and no cognitive problems. I can also play with the dosage if I am having a depressive episode because it can cause depression. It's an amazing med. For people with social anxiety or GAD it can be a lifesaver. For peopl waiting for a med to kick in it can also be a lifesaver.
Different meds for different folks! (yes, I know it doesn't rhyme).
Maxime
Posted by ditzypixy on January 28, 2004, at 16:10:04
In reply to Re: BENZODIAZEPINES ARE NOT THE ANSWER, posted by Alexander on January 26, 2004, at 10:11:27
all i have to say is thank goddess for tranks,there've been times when ive been in the height of it,truly in some sort of hellish place in my head,and ive taken xanax,just the low dose ones,or something similar and its numbed me or monged me out enough to get through it,without hacking into my arms or something. so they may have a string of side effects,what drugs dont?and they may be addictive,but if you use your head,thats not really a problem,once you make sure you dont start caning them back every day for the littlest of problems,like you chipped a nail or something.
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