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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by john1022 on January 12, 2004, at 15:01:19
I was once able to take Effexor with no side effects and it worked very well for me on two different occasions in time.
The third time I took it (along with Elavil) I had extreme opposite reactions of feeling much more depressed each day I took it for weeks, extreme anxiety, suicidal thoughts where before that I have never had any, worse sleep problems, jaw tighten, ringing in ears, nightmares and sensitivity to sound.
I used also always be able to eat fish also, but now I become really depressed and feel absolutely horrible only hours after eating fish or taking fish oil. I also seem to feel worse after I take a multi vitiman or eat walnuts (which have omega 3's fatty acids in them)
Does anyone have a clue as to what might be going on with me and any recommendations for meds? My doctor diagnosed me as Bipolar mixed/NOS (not otherwise specified). I seem to have not so much depression as a little bit of anxiety, extreme insomnia when I feel this way, a spaciness feeling and a little bit of brainfog.
If I was bipolar, wouldn't have I had the same reaction to Effexor in the past? It once worked like a charm and fixed all of these problems in a matter of 3 weeks, now I can't seem to take anything.
I had a hair test done and it came back as having extremely high levels of copper. My doctor mentioned that copper toxicity could have something to do with the medication sensitivity.
I have been on lithium orotate for a few months and that actually made me feel better, but I am not 100% and still having real problems sleeping. I actually have felt a little better after taking Taurine and Zinc supplements as well (which I was low in and has to do with copper deficiency), but I am not 100%
I am just wondering what I should do or suggest next as I am starting to get worried about my sleep and want to feel well again. Thanks
Posted by brussell on January 12, 2004, at 15:51:25
In reply to Medication sensitivities- what is causing this?, posted by john1022 on January 12, 2004, at 15:01:19
Yuck! Those are weird side effects.
You didn't say if you had used Elavil with the Effexor before, but tricyclics can have strange side effects. That combination may not be good for you.
I'd quit the Elavil and see if things get better.
Posted by john1022 on January 12, 2004, at 15:57:35
In reply to Re: Medication sensitivities- what is causing this?, posted by brussell on January 12, 2004, at 15:51:25
I took the Effexor, felt really bad and stopped after a week. Felt a little better when I stopped taking anything for the next week. Then took Elavil and things went really bad. I also had a really bad reaction of my depression and anxiety getting worse on St. John's Wort. I was taking these by themselves at seperate times.
I am currently not taking Elavil and havn't for a few months. I am only taking lithium orotate, taurine and zinc supplements. I did have some luck of feeling better with 5htp but it didn't solve my sleep problem.
It is almost impossible for me to fall asleep without a benzo, and I don't want to be on them too long. Ambien and Sonata gave me ear pains, sensitivity to sound and made the ringing worse. The sleep problem was always the biggest problem in the past and would come out of know where, but would be fixed in a few week with Effexor in the past.
Thanks for the input
Posted by sarita0001 on January 12, 2004, at 17:14:12
In reply to Re: Medication sensitivities- what is causing this?, posted by john1022 on January 12, 2004, at 15:57:35
Hi,
It sounds like you might not agree with the bipolar diagnosis. You said you have a mix of anxiety, depression and sleep problems. Is sleeping a problem as a result of the anxiety? You also said benzos helped you sleep and they are also used to treat anxiety. If anxiety is the biggest problem right now, then you should look into treating that first and that might help with the sleep. Then treat the sleep problem then the depression. Just a suggestion.
Good luck
Sara
Posted by john1022 on January 12, 2004, at 17:37:53
In reply to Re: Medication sensitivities- what is causing this?, posted by sarita0001 on January 12, 2004, at 17:14:12
Thanks for the response Sara. I am not sure what to think about the bipolar diagnosis. It isn't so much the anxiety that keeps me awake at the moment.
I pretty much have the anxiety and depression under control for the most part. It just seems to be some kind of chemical imbalance that won't allow me to fall asleep or get real tired whatesover. As if my sleep just won't trigger. It doesn't have to do with anxiety or racing thoughts while I am trying to fall asleep.
This comes out of no where. When I am not having this problem, I have no problems falling asleep whatsoever. I am pretty sure this has to do with serotonin as I got tinnitus around the exact moment I started feeling bad one night (and many think tinnitus is brain related and has to do with some kind of shift or fluctuation of serotonin). Thanks again!
Posted by HappyGirl on January 12, 2004, at 23:56:33
In reply to Medication sensitivities- what is causing this?, posted by john1022 on January 12, 2004, at 15:01:19
Hi:
In my knowledge, any psycho.-med. does not work as good/effective as before, ... such as in your case. Also, some of SSRIs does not mix 'good' with mood-stabilizer you've been on. Effoxer might not be the 'exact' SSRIs, however my pdoc. regards this med. is very 'similar' to SSRIs that does not recommend if you're Bp. Rather, other form of AD med. might be a good choice.
In regard to 'sleep problem,' that is a part of Bp symptoms. For this, you need a med. that has a calming effect like Klonopin, even Trazodone that has also milder AD effect.
Your Bp is mix., then to be frank and honest, it isn't easy to find a good/right med. combo. in the first place. My Bp is Bp II with rapid cycler that is a hard one next to mix. in regard to finding a right med. combo. In my case, it took a couple of years.
In my guess, your pdoc.'s strategy on your dxed Bp is, ... the very first step is to work on stabilize your Bp, for that reason you got M.S. However, unlike Depression, you may need other form of AD, not close to SSRI AD med. In my guess, that's a major 'cause' you to not sleep well along with other negative reactions that didn't occur before your dxed Bp. Bp and depression is a sort similar in regard to looking into depressive episodes, however AD med. regimen for Bp and Depression is somehow different. For instance, in depression, you are able to take most of AD meds. available on the market as long as it's effective on your dep., however for Bp depression, you need to be cautious in choosing AD med. because some of those meds. are harmful than helping, so to speak 'induce' manic episodes.
I suggest you to call to talk to your pdoc. for your negative reaction on your med. combo.
H.G.
Posted by john1022 on January 13, 2004, at 10:56:47
In reply to Re: Medication sensitivities- what is causing this?, posted by HappyGirl on January 12, 2004, at 23:56:33
Thanks for the feedback.
For some reason I believe strongly that my sleeping problem stems from a serotonin problem and not a bipolar overactive glucose or mania problem. Lithium orotate has helped me feel a little better, but only back to the point I was before I started feeling not so well from the antidepressants.
It just seems that this is the exact same problem as I had in the past that was very easily fixed with Effexor. If Effexor isn't used for bipolar related sleep problems or mania, it just leads me to believe that it is serotonin related and not bipolar related. I believe her diagnosis could be correct, but I feel a moodstablizer or antimanic agent isn't going to fix the sleep problem.
But I could be totally wrong. I trust the doctor and will do whatever she thinks is best though, but I am just getting a little desperate as this has been going on for 1/2 year and I need to get better or at least be able to fall asleep on my own.
I will definitely keep trazodone in mind though. Thanks!
Posted by HappyGirl on January 13, 2004, at 12:02:54
In reply to Re: Medication sensitivities- what is causing this?, posted by john1022 on January 13, 2004, at 10:56:47
Hi John1022:
I agree with you in regard to Seratonin that helps you sleep well. However, in Bipolar(I presume you have Bp, ..), so called, 'manic'side of Bp makes you 'hyper' that interferes the process of sleeping. You sounds like so used to 'Depression' that I totally understand, then your thought process is still on depression, not on Bp, although you've been in process of admitting Bp and being eager to work on Bp.
Then, there seems some conflicts going on in your mind as to the AD you used in the past when you were in Dep. However, you seem staring gradually to focus the present state of your dx., Bp. This must be a very first step for you to trudge, because Bp, especially like yours, Bp-mix. and also mine, Bp-rapid is NEVER easy to find the right med. combo.
Since your concern on insomnia is so significant that in turn interferes your daily activities, such as work or study(if you're at school), then this problem is most priority for you to get under control.
In my suggestion, Depakote is quite good for 'sleep well,' actually in my case, so sedative effect that made me sleep so much. Lithium is not only mood-stabilizer but also some AD effect, however there is no proven effect in sedation. Some are very successful by taking Lamictal that is very reputable for a good quality of Bp depression along with mood-stabilizer effect. However, the Lamictal has no effect for sleep-well. Either way, you may need to ask some 'sleeping-aid' at your next pdoc.'s appt.
Normally, in my knowledge, the very first/imporatnt step is to 'stabilize' Bp condition. After fairly stabilize, then the next is anti-depressant. Hence, it's quite 'time-consuming,' but that's what Bp might be, unlike Depression. Afterwards, according your progress/improvement, AP med, such as Zyprexa, Seroquel, Risperdal and other new one might be introduced to get under total/semi-total stabilization, ... almost as normal as before dxed Bp.
In my suggestion, try to have a good communication open with the pdoc., because it may take a long road for you to find a right med. combo.
H.G.
p.s.)If there is/are any questions in regard to this, above, please post back here. I normally come here on daily basis,... sometime just 'glance' through to catch some interesting posts. Because, 'Knowledge' is 'Power,' once come to M.I.
This is the end of the thread.
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