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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lynne on December 12, 2003, at 0:15:12
I've been using Ambien for insomnia. I would like to find something less addictive. Any thoughts on using Klonopin? My insomnia is due to excessive worrying.
Thanks
Posted by btnd on December 12, 2003, at 0:59:46
In reply to Which is more addictive Ambien or Klonopin?, posted by Lynne on December 12, 2003, at 0:15:12
I've seen abstracts that Ambien used just for sleep isn't addictive and the same dose works every time. As far as Klonopin - it depends what you are using it for.
Posted by Viridis on December 12, 2003, at 3:30:36
In reply to Re: Which is more addictive Ambien or Klonopin? » Lynne, posted by btnd on December 12, 2003, at 0:59:46
I'm not aware of any evidence that either is addictive for the vast majority of patients. Dependency may occur, which means that if you discontinue the medication after extended use, you have to do so gradually. However, true "addiction" to these meds appears to be extremely rare, although some people may use the term "addiction" incorrectly, using criteria by which aspirin, insulin, some blood pressure drugs etc. would also be considered "addictive".
Posted by tensor on December 12, 2003, at 8:42:56
In reply to Re: Which is more addictive Ambien or Klonopin? » btnd, posted by Viridis on December 12, 2003, at 3:30:36
First of all, which works best for insomnia for you? My experience is that ambien is more hypnotic than klonopin. I took ambien almost every day for a month and didn't become addicted, but that's me. Be careful and good luck.
/tensor
Posted by Viridis on December 13, 2003, at 0:27:27
In reply to Which is more addictive Ambien or Klonopin?, posted by Lynne on December 12, 2003, at 0:15:12
I posted a link a while back (maybe 2 months ago) to a review article on sleep meds that was very enlightenng, involving interviews with various sleep specialists. I can't find it right now, but the gist of it was that Ambien seemed to be the preferred med, and some sleep doctors felt it was quite safe to take it long-term. Others said that many benzos (including Klonopin) are equally effective and safe short- and long-term.
Proper sleep is very important to your mental and physical health, so if you have to take meds to achieve it, you're probably still doing your mind and body a favor.
BTW, there's good evidence that regular, moderate exercise can also help with insomnia, and I've certainly found this to be the case. If you aren't getting enough exercise, that might be a non-drug way of achieving your goal -- it definitely can't hurt, and could be beneficial in other ways too.
Posted by CrazyMe on December 13, 2003, at 0:28:20
In reply to Re: Which is more addictive Ambien or Klonopin?, posted by tensor on December 12, 2003, at 8:42:56
I don't know what Klonopin is for so I can't offer any advice there. However, I have used ambien on and off now for years, never taking more than 10 mg at a time. In fact for the last year I was breaking the tablets in half. I wanted to fall asleep, not sleep all day and it worked great for that. I'd take a full 10mg if I was in a particularly stressful situation, at a hotel for example or staying in some other unfamiliar uncomfortable place (camping!) I'm taking the whole 10mg now to help me sleep through my effexor withdrawal symptoms.
I have however experienced the amnesia side-effect of ambien which is rather odd. Imagine this, you are awake, possibly walking and talking to a friend, or perhaps writing in a journal, and the next day, it's like it never happened. Your mind checks out and your body keeps on going. Knowing that this happens has encouraged me to seek alternatives.
When Im not under any more stress than usual I can get by with taking herbals that include valerian. I have found the Enzymatic Therapy Revitalizing Sleep Formula available at GNC to be particularly potent. I'm going to try to reserve the ambien for those times when I simply can't turn my mind off long enough to fall asleep and need some help doing so.
Hope this helps a little.
Posted by Mimi on December 13, 2003, at 16:44:31
In reply to Which is more addictive Ambien or Klonopin?, posted by Lynne on December 12, 2003, at 0:15:12
Lynne,
Klonopin is a benzo which by definition is addictive. Klonopin did me no good other than I slept through the night and was sedated ALL day long for at least a year. Had to go in the hospital to get off it. You cannot break the habit: it is physiologically addictive.
I happily take 10mg of Ambien now. Some nights I don't even take it. There are no side effects other than amnesia IF you stay awake after taking it. No other side effects. I've been on them all and Ambien is by far the best, in my humble opinion.
Tried Valerian root, too. It was far too strong for me. Sedative effects lasted all the next day.
Mimi (Hope that helps)
Posted by stjames on December 13, 2003, at 21:20:26
In reply to Klonopin is More Addictive!!!, posted by Mimi on December 13, 2003, at 16:44:31
Posted by Viridis on December 14, 2003, at 3:58:29
In reply to Klonopin is More Addictive!!!, posted by Mimi on December 13, 2003, at 16:44:31
Addiction is pretty rare with benzos. What people often call "addiction" is medical dependency -- your system gets used to a medication, and gradual withdrawal is necessary if you decide to stop it. No fun, but it's more of a problem with some of the most commonly-prescribed antidepressants than with benzos, and also is an issue with many blood pressure meds etc.
My point is that there are many meds that are hard to get off of, and there's nothing "special" about benzos. If you need these drugs, then you have to weigh the benefits against the negatives, should you discontinue them. But "addiction" is a very minor concern for most people, especially in comparison to the potential benefits..
Posted by Mimi on December 14, 2003, at 5:46:01
In reply to Re: Klonopin is More Addictive!!! » Mimi, posted by Viridis on December 14, 2003, at 3:58:29
Viridis,
Thanks for the clarification. Mimi
Posted by btnd on December 14, 2003, at 6:51:31
In reply to Ambien is schedule V, it can be addictive. (nm), posted by stjames on December 13, 2003, at 21:20:26
I will soon post studies showing it is not. Even same dose can work for months. What do you mean by addictive anyway? That people crave it? or have to use it, otherwise they get anxious/paranoid like with long-term use of benzos?
Also - the thing that Ambien is Sch.V doesn't mean anything. Marijuana is Sch.I and it's not addictive physically at all. Ultram is not Sch. but has high potential for a person to get addicted to it (I've seen reports of long-term users who abrubtly stopped Ultram and experienced Effexor-type withdrawals. Actually no wonder, since venlafaxine and tramadol are VERY similar substances).
Posted by stjames on December 14, 2003, at 11:02:53
In reply to Re: Ambien is schedule V, it can be addictive. » stjames, posted by btnd on December 14, 2003, at 6:51:31
try searching the dr. bob archives for "ambien addiction" and see the number of people who have had trouble with it.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020222/msgs/95143.html
Given it's effects on the gabba system and the loss of memeory reported with its use, this med can cause dependence in some. I could care less if I am dependent on a med if it is what I need to function.
Posted by Mimi on December 14, 2003, at 11:58:19
In reply to Re: Ambien is schedule V, it can be addictive., posted by stjames on December 14, 2003, at 11:02:53
I'm always open to gathering more info on meds.
Mimi
Posted by stjames on December 14, 2003, at 14:38:36
In reply to Hey, thanks for the info » stjames, posted by Mimi on December 14, 2003, at 11:58:19
> I'm always open to gathering more info on meds.
>
> MimiJust keep in mind that dependence and addiction are
not the same. Lack of sleep has dramatic effects on your general health and mental health.
Posted by sfmom on December 14, 2003, at 15:37:06
In reply to Which is more addictive Ambien or Klonopin?, posted by Lynne on December 12, 2003, at 0:15:12
Well, I can only share my experience with Klonopin, but I became dependent on it very quickly. I started out with two pills a day for anxiety, then my doc said I could go up to three, which I did. But it still wasn't helping me to sleep at night so I called my doc and asked for Ambien to sleep. She said that since they are in the same family of drugs, she couldn't give them both to me. And when I described what I thought were my continuing anxiety symptoms, she recognized them as Klonopin withdrawal between doses! I have had to slowly wean myself from the Klonopin because I have terrible withdrawal symptoms between doses. I'm down from 1.5-2 mg a day to .75, broken up into .25 doses three times a day. I'm also getting acupuncture and taking herbs to help with the withdrawal.
I know that my situation is not the norm. Some people take Klonopin for years without dependency problems. But getting off of it has been very difficult for me. Also, one more difference between Klonopin and Ambien, is that Ambien has a much shorter half life so if you are just taking it at night for sleep, the potential for dependency is less than with Klonopin, even though they are in the same "family" of drugs.
Good luck finding something that works for you.
Posted by Mimi on December 14, 2003, at 16:51:27
In reply to Re: Which is more addictive Ambien or Klonopin? » Lynne, posted by sfmom on December 14, 2003, at 15:37:06
I don't think Ambien and Klonopin are in the same family of meds. Klonopin is a benzodiazapine and Ambien is not.
Mimi
Posted by Caleb462 on December 14, 2003, at 16:53:24
In reply to Re: Ambien is schedule V, it can be addictive. » stjames, posted by btnd on December 14, 2003, at 6:51:31
> I will soon post studies showing it is not.
All benzos are addictive if *abused*. Psychological craving, continued use despite negative effects, etc.
Posted by Caleb462 on December 14, 2003, at 16:58:30
In reply to Re: Ambien is schedule V, it can be addictive., posted by Caleb462 on December 14, 2003, at 16:53:24
> > I will soon post studies showing it is not.
>
> All benzos are addictive if *abused*. Psychological craving, continued use despite negative effects, etc.Oh, we are talking about Ambien still? Well, probably to a lesser degree than a benzo, but I have little doubt Ambien would lead to addiction if abused over the long term. Medical dependence does occur as well. I doubt Ambien would be scheduled if it was otherwise, though admittedly Schedule V is very low on the schedule system. Considering it acts at a benzodiazepine receptor and all though...
Posted by btnd on December 14, 2003, at 18:21:40
In reply to Re: Which is more addictive Ambien or Klonopin? » sfmom, posted by Mimi on December 14, 2003, at 16:51:27
> I don't think Ambien and Klonopin are in the same family of meds. Klonopin is a benzodiazapine and Ambien is not.
Ambien is a unique benzo with very hypnotic properties.
Posted by Lynne on December 14, 2003, at 18:43:13
In reply to Re: Which is more addictive Ambien or Klonopin? » Mimi, posted by btnd on December 14, 2003, at 18:21:40
Thanks to everyone who answered my post. I have learned alot. I think I will stick to Ambien. I must be dependent upon it not addicted because I can't sleep without it. I take 5-10mg nightly.
Again Thank You,
Lynne
Posted by Caleb462 on December 15, 2003, at 10:51:00
In reply to Re: Which is more addictive Ambien or Klonopin? » Mimi, posted by btnd on December 14, 2003, at 18:21:40
> > I don't think Ambien and Klonopin are in the same family of meds. Klonopin is a benzodiazapine and Ambien is not.
>
> Ambien is a unique benzo with very hypnotic properties.
>
>Ambien is not a benzo, though it is closely related.
Posted by sfmom on December 15, 2003, at 13:29:23
In reply to Re: Which is more addictive Ambien or Klonopin?, posted by Caleb462 on December 15, 2003, at 10:51:00
> > > I don't think Ambien and Klonopin are in the same family of meds. Klonopin is a benzodiazapine and Ambien is not.
> >
> > Ambien is a unique benzo with very hypnotic properties.
> >
> >
>
> Ambien is not a benzo, though it is closely related.All I know is that my doctor said I couldn't be on both of them after developing a dependency for Klonopin. She did say that they are in the same family of meds, and of course, could be wrong. I by no means meant to pass along incorrect information, I was just offering my experience.
This is the end of the thread.
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