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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 4 of 4. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tensor on November 19, 2003, at 3:35:15
A couple of scientists reminded us that cocaine doesn't produce dopamine, it just inhibits its re-absorption in the brain, keeping the "old" dopamine around longer. This increases brain dopamine levels for a while, but it also causes the body's metabolism itself to produce less and less new dopamine. Soon the cocaine user needs ever increasing doses to make the existing dopamine go further and last longer. Ultimately the body seems to stop producing dopamine altogether, so that no amount of cocaine is able to maintain dopamine levels. That's when the cocaine user finally crashes. Remember that low or no dopamine means extreme anxiety, raw fear, compulsive-obsessive behavior, and so on.
The situation may be similar with the serotonin reuptake inhibitors Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Lovan, or Luvox. It would mean that their users will ultimately crash too.
That's one theory. It doesn't fit all cases but it made a lot of sense to us. It would mean that what's precious and should be enhanced is the body's own natural ability to make dopamine and serotonin.
-taken as part from http://www.defend-net.com/mood/DarkSide.html/tensor
Posted by HIBA on November 19, 2003, at 5:10:14
In reply to What do you have to say about this?, posted by tensor on November 19, 2003, at 3:35:15
You Scare the hell out of me. I am on prozac for years and never been able to get off it. Future looks so gloomy for me.
HIBA
Posted by linkadge on November 19, 2003, at 6:49:39
In reply to Re: What do you have to say about this?, posted by HIBA on November 19, 2003, at 5:10:14
First off, there are fundemental differences between the way cocaine, and antidepressants act.
Cocaine, acts in a center of the brain, that leads to sudden, distinct and powerful reward. But cocaine's reward, is not a satisfying reward. It never leaves the user feeling satisfied or at peace.
99.99 percent of all prozac users find a therapudic dose that works, and then can stick with that. A functional antdepressant does not create artificial pleasure (ie cocaine) but instead reinforces centers of the brain that derive pleasure from familiar and socially acceptable things.
Prozac - I enjoy watching seinfeld again
Cocaine - with my newfound power, I can surely do
anything/and everyything 50 times
times better than anyone.
(selfish hedonistic drug - rarely leads
to depression recovery)
It is true that on the surface, one a common reputake mechanizm might make one think that they are the same deal, however studies show that most addictive substances work on totally sepearate centers of the brain, than do antidepressants.
Ie, thats why they took certain antidepressants off the market - Amineptine (survecor)- because upon further investigation, it worked more in ways of a drug with abuse potential - ie produceing tolerance, feelings of pleasure but chronic disatisfaction
If you are wondering why, some people can get off antidepressants more easily than others, then I would relate the issue to smoking. Smoking works as an antidepressant through inhibition of MOAB, No tolerance to this effect is apparent.
However recent research suggests that those with genes predisposing one to chronic dopaminergic malfunction, are the ones who cannot get off of smoking as easily as others.While, anybody can get addicted to cocaine, I would argue that only those with genes coding for poor activation of 5ht1a receptors are the ones who may very well be cronically needy of antidepressants. Does this mean that they're addicting - certainly no more than uncle harry is a addicted to insulin.
http://www.neurotransmitter.net/serotoningenetic.html
Here are a bunch of studies discussing the relationship between certain genes, the deficit in serotonin reputake inhibition capacity, and the predispositio to depression.
One such study shows that if you possess a certain gene varient, than you will have
inescapably have a 3 fold increase in reputake
capacity, leading to 1/3 the serotonin avaiability of the general population. You can force feed yourself 5htp all you want, but if your brain is coded for altered metabolism of the chemical, then you will enevitably only get so far.
You can choos whatever path you want.Linkadge
Posted by vanessa33 on November 19, 2003, at 12:56:02
In reply to Re: What do you have to say about this?, posted by linkadge on November 19, 2003, at 6:49:39
Thank you for posting this, linkadge.
I appreciate what tensor posted too! I like interesting discussions.
But as someone who seemed to need antidepressants in order to live a normal life like everyone else - and who finds them to be "clearing" - making me more myself - rather than "clouding" - I appreciated that reminder from you, linkadge!
I'm one of those who just didn't seem to be 'made right' - depression (an inability to function because of chronic, crushing psychological pain) started at puberty and got worse, reaching dangerous levels by early 20s. I think I would be dead if I hadn't been given a good antidepressant that made me myself again.
As I told my doctor all those years ago, "I need you to fix me. I can't ...no one can ...live like this. If I can't be fixed ...."
He said, "I know. Just promise me you'll hold on while we find a cure. There are things out there today. We'll fix you. I promise."
And he did! I've been ten years without depression because of antidepressants. I went from having no job - being a burden on others- and wanting to die ....to having a very succesful career, doing lots of fulfilling charity work and finding an excellent marriage. I'm glad I'm alive! I still have normal ups and downs - like if something awful happens, I cry. But that's normal! Most days, I'm just so glad I'm still here. I have lots of fun and feel like I'm helping make the world better.
Definitely not how one would feel on cocaine!
This is the end of the thread.
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