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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by maryhelen on October 27, 2003, at 6:54:23
Hi everyone:
I read these boards fairly regularily, however, I do not usually post.
As usual, I am always thankful at how well researched everyone is, as I cheat and don't do it myself. Most of that is because I seem to get everywhere but where I need to be when I want to know something, or it is all pharmaceutical advertising. Fairly computer illiterate. Truly stunned at the brilliant writing sytles, humour, wit, caring, kindness, and I don't even feel at all capable of expressing myself as such.
Having said all that ..... I am truly at the end of my rope. For 25 years, I won't go into all of the hospitalizations, substance abuse programs, ECT... ect. The multitude of drug combos, as most of have experienced.
The difference being for me right now is that I have returned to work after a 2 1/2 year sick leave and I am totally stressed out and overwhelmed. I have held the same job for 30 years, but it may as well be a new one, with all of the new and everchanging computer programs. However, I do not think that this stress has caused this latest, bleak, suicidal depression. Over the years, being off work, when I went through these difficult times the difference would be that I could ride it out, literally in bed.
I will not carry on but get to my question.
I was taking Parnate for 2 1/2 years. I can't say that I was on top of the world, but I guess I got by. Last March, when many difficult things were happening in my life, my pdoc augmented it with Lamitcal. I had about 3 weeks, very quickly, of feeling the best 'normal' that I had ever felt in my 51 years, it was almost scary. As I say this response only lasted about 3 weeks. I have upped the dose, now just started 400 mg. By the way, went off the Parnate about 2 months ago. Realized over the years that my hair was thinning, I was getting bald spots, and in the last months of taking it, my hair was falling out in handfuls. I could find no other reason, other than the Parnate.
Doc just added Celexa, been on it three other times and do not want to continue.
I am going to start Nardil on Saturday. Have heard such positive things about it here. I am so reluctant to go off the Lamitcal, in case it many blessidly kick in again. Doc checked. It doesn't contradict.
Questions are: Nardil, Lamitcal .... I don't know what to do. What dose can you start with on the Nardil. How fast can you up it.
I am truly desperate. Have to go to work in 15 minutes after being away last week. This should be good. Principal not too happy, I am sure. Panicked. Scared. Tired of the med changes, washouts, the waiting.....
Also, I am heavily addicted to pain medications. Percs, tylenol 3's, anything that takes away the depression, and they do. Taking too many lately when I can get them, and then have the inevitable crash. Cannot take any benzos, any sleep meds as such, because of my addiction. Have insomnia and I am in constant pyhsical pain for varying reasons.
Please help. I am not going to read this over. Just send it. It is probably incoherent, babbling, too long, scattered, wish there was spell check.
Thanks for listening.
maryhelen
Posted by McPac on October 27, 2003, at 10:33:47
In reply to End of my rope/Lamitcal/Nardil, posted by maryhelen on October 27, 2003, at 6:54:23
Hi Mary,
ask Ace!
He is the Nardil King.
Put his name in the Subject line so he sees it.
Best wishes!
Posted by McPac on October 27, 2003, at 10:37:08
In reply to End of my rope/Lamitcal/Nardil, posted by maryhelen on October 27, 2003, at 6:54:23
Posted by ace on October 27, 2003, at 18:06:44
In reply to End of my rope/Lamitcal/Nardil, posted by maryhelen on October 27, 2003, at 6:54:23
> Hi everyone:
>
> I read these boards fairly regularily, however, I do not usually post.
>
> As usual, I am always thankful at how well researched everyone is, as I cheat and don't do it myself. Most of that is because I seem to get everywhere but where I need to be when I want to know something, or it is all pharmaceutical advertising. Fairly computer illiterate. Truly stunned at the brilliant writing sytles, humour, wit, caring, kindness, and I don't even feel at all capable of expressing myself as such.
>
> Having said all that ..... I am truly at the end of my rope. For 25 years, I won't go into all of the hospitalizations, substance abuse programs, ECT... ect. The multitude of drug combos, as most of have experienced.
>
> The difference being for me right now is that I have returned to work after a 2 1/2 year sick leave and I am totally stressed out and overwhelmed. I have held the same job for 30 years, but it may as well be a new one, with all of the new and everchanging computer programs. However, I do not think that this stress has caused this latest, bleak, suicidal depression. Over the years, being off work, when I went through these difficult times the difference would be that I could ride it out, literally in bed.
>
> I will not carry on but get to my question.
>
> I was taking Parnate for 2 1/2 years. I can't say that I was on top of the world, but I guess I got by. Last March, when many difficult things were happening in my life, my pdoc augmented it with Lamitcal. I had about 3 weeks, very quickly, of feeling the best 'normal' that I had ever felt in my 51 years, it was almost scary. As I say this response only lasted about 3 weeks. I have upped the dose, now just started 400 mg. By the way, went off the Parnate about 2 months ago. Realized over the years that my hair was thinning, I was getting bald spots, and in the last months of taking it, my hair was falling out in handfuls. I could find no other reason, other than the Parnate.
>
> Doc just added Celexa, been on it three other times and do not want to continue.
>
> I am going to start Nardil on Saturday. Have heard such positive things about it here. I am so reluctant to go off the Lamitcal, in case it many blessidly kick in again. Doc checked. It doesn't contradict.
>
> Questions are: Nardil, Lamitcal .... I don't know what to do. What dose can you start with on the Nardil. How fast can you up it.
>
> I am truly desperate. Have to go to work in 15 minutes after being away last week. This should be good. Principal not too happy, I am sure. Panicked. Scared. Tired of the med changes, washouts, the waiting.....
>
> Also, I am heavily addicted to pain medications. Percs, tylenol 3's, anything that takes away the depression, and they do. Taking too many lately when I can get them, and then have the inevitable crash. Cannot take any benzos, any sleep meds as such, because of my addiction. Have insomnia and I am in constant pyhsical pain for varying reasons.
>
> Please help. I am not going to read this over. Just send it. It is probably incoherent, babbling, too long, scattered, wish there was spell check.
>
> Thanks for listening.
>
> maryhelen
Hi Mary,Sorry to hear you are so down. Life can be real hard sometimes, and it's even worse if you are plagued by depression.
Rest assured YOU ARE ON THE RIGHT TRACK!
I CANNOT RECOMMEND NARDIL ENOUGH!
But, if you truly want it to work there are a couple of things you must keep in mind: DOSE AND DURATION.
DOSE- You might need a dose of up to 90mg.
DURATION: You might have to wait for up to 6 weeks for action.
here is my recommended dosing schedule...1. start at 45mg- stay at this for 1 week
2. raise to 60mg- stay at this for 4 weeks
3. If things are not helped raise to 90mg and stay put at that dose.
Please, Please be patient with the s/effects: they all usually go. If you get insomnia (But you might not: Nardil; helps my sleep greatly) use antihistamines.The benefits of Nardil are amazing- not just for me too. So many people find peace on this drug after years, sometimes decades, of suffering.
BUT, AGAIN, PLEASE BE PATIENT!!!! GIVE IT TIME TO WORK IT'S MAGIC.
aND KEEP IN MIND IT MIGHT KICK IN QUICK...YOU NEVER KNOW. ONE THING I DO KNOW IS THAT IT ALMOST NEVER FAILS. THE ONLY TIME I'VE SEEN IT FAIL IS WHERE THE PERSONS WERE PROBABLY RECIEVING SUBPOTENT NARDIL (THE DRUG COMPANY SCREWED UP!)
ANY MORE QSTNS FEEL FREE TO ASKNARDIL IS NEAR
THERE IS NO MORE NEED TO FEAR....
ACE.
Posted by ace on October 27, 2003, at 18:08:26
In reply to Mary, Re: End of my rope/Lamitcal/Nardil, posted by McPac on October 27, 2003, at 10:33:47
Posted by maryhelen on October 28, 2003, at 5:15:58
In reply to Re: End of my rope/Lamitcal/Nardil » maryhelen, posted by ace on October 27, 2003, at 18:06:44
McPAC:
Thank you so much for directing my post to Ace for help. After I posted I had to go to work, made it against all odds and was even able to work late to try to start getting caught up. Came home, 'crashed' big time, and have just come to the computer this morning, 4:00 Toronto time. Have tried to write this post for the third time and have messed it up somehow, so I am trying again. Thanks again and Ace has responded.
ACE:
Although I do not post often, but read all the post regularily, I do know well your struggles with the meds, your other disorders, working hard to do your courses ...... I am fortunate enough to not have to deal with OCD, derealization (sp) etc. but have disabling, treatment resistant, down and out depression, not bi-polar with all of the ups and downs, either depressed, more depressed, suicidally depressed.
Having said all this, I am truly grateful for your response to my questions about Nardil. I do like my current pdoc, whom I have been with for over 2 years now (been through about 20). He knows I come here and is very open and listens to me when I explain that these are the people who are experiencing the meds and have the first hand experience. With my most recent 'crash' he has tried to supplement the Lamitcal with Celexa, and although I started it, I have been on it three times many years ago with not much affect, except few side effects. He next wants me to try the Electro Magnetic Imaging (if I have said this correctly). Have had two rounds of ECT in 6 years and really do not want to try that type of 'brain therapy' at this time, and have currently returned to work and am trying to take off as little time as possible.
He knows I went off the Parnate, and when I phoned him a few days ago I asked if I could try Nardil. I see all of the positive responses, and certainly your confidence in the med. He called me back three times to make sure it does not contradict with Lamitcal and agreed that I could go off the Celexa, cold turkey. I am to call him at home tonight to tell him how I am doing (odd he would give me his home number). Ironically, when I went on the Parnate a few years back, he had prescribed Nardil, but the pharmacist told me it was not available any more. Subsequently, I understand now that, at the time it had been recalled, as you put it, something missing...subpotent Nardil.
Again, although I am happy with my pdoc, I am worried about the info he gets and adheres to from the 'big blue book' about dosing. I am in a desperate situation, did not have many noticeable side effects from Parnate, and do not want to start out on really small doses, if it is not necessary.
Thank you for your recommendations of which I am going to follow. One of my questions is though, as I remember, the Parnate came in little red pills, 10 mgs., with what looked liked a little happy face on it. I do not know about Nardil, but expect if you are suggesting to begin with 45 mg. dose, it must come in 5 mg. tablets. Also, do I take the 45 mgs. all at once, in the morning?
Yes, ACE, I will be patient. I have no choice but to give it time to work. I feel I am coming to the end of it all, after living for 51 very unhappy years. My one worry is trying to work. My job requires me to interact with 500 children, their parents, staff, etc. So I have to try and be okay with public relations and be caring and kind, besides relearning all of the new computer programs. I have been thinking lately, that with all of this suffering and strife in our world, that I am but a small pebble of sand. Yet, I also know that to my daughter and 4 grandchildren, and wonderful family, I am more than that, like a mountain really to my only child. So I must struggle on, although I have worried much lately that things will be out my control. I also know that I am certainly replaceable at work, as my last sick leave has not been the only one, but my pride and dignity and self worth is so much dependent in being able to work and be productive, beside making money, as I am self supporting.
Again, thank you, Ace and McPac, for taking the time for your response and help. So much needed and appreciated, and gives me something to hope for in the Nardil.
Sorry if my post is rambling and scattered, but again I am panicked, scared and needing to get in the shower and get myself to work.
maryhelen
Posted by ace on October 28, 2003, at 16:46:36
In reply to McPac/Ace/Nardil.........thanks, posted by maryhelen on October 28, 2003, at 5:15:58
> McPAC:
>
> Thank you so much for directing my post to Ace for help. After I posted I had to go to work, made it against all odds and was even able to work late to try to start getting caught up. Came home, 'crashed' big time, and have just come to the computer this morning, 4:00 Toronto time. Have tried to write this post for the third time and have messed it up somehow, so I am trying again. Thanks again and Ace has responded.
>
> ACE:
>
> Although I do not post often, but read all the post regularily, I do know well your struggles with the meds, your other disorders, working hard to do your courses ...... I am fortunate enough to not have to deal with OCD, derealization (sp) etc. but have disabling, treatment resistant, down and out depression, not bi-polar with all of the ups and downs, either depressed, more depressed, suicidally depressed.I'm sorry to hear this. But please keep the faith.
> Having said all this, I am truly grateful for your response to my questions about Nardil.
Not a problem at all.
I do like my current pdoc, whom I have been with for over 2 years now (been through about 20). He knows I come here and is very open and listens to me when I explain that these are the people who are experiencing the meds and have the first hand experience. With my most recent 'crash' he has tried to supplement the Lamitcal with Celexa, and although I started it, I have been on it three times many years ago with not much affect, except few side effects. He next wants me to try the Electro Magnetic Imaging (if I have said this correctly). Have had two rounds of ECT in 6 years and really do not want to try that type of 'brain therapy' at this time, and have currently returned to work and am trying to take off as little time as possible.
It is very good you are still at work. Work is good for the soul.
> He knows I went off the Parnate, and when I phoned him a few days ago I asked if I could try Nardil. I see all of the positive responses, and certainly your confidence in the med. He called me back three times to make sure it does not contradict with Lamitcal and agreed that I could go off the Celexa, cold turkey. I am to call him at home tonight to tell him how I am doing (odd he would give me his home number).He must care for you a lot.
Ironically, when I went on the Parnate a few years back, he had prescribed Nardil, but the pharmacist told me it was not available any more. Subsequently, I understand now that, at the time it had been recalled, as you put it, something missing...subpotent Nardil.
>
> Again, although I am happy with my pdoc, I am worried about the info he gets and adheres to from the 'big blue book' about dosing. I am in a desperate situation, did not have many noticeable side effects from Parnate, and do not want to start out on really small doses, if it is not necessary.
>
> Thank you for your recommendations of which I am going to follow. One of my questions is though, as I remember, the Parnate came in little red pills, 10 mgs., with what looked liked a little happy face on it. I do not know about Nardil, but expect if you are suggesting to begin with 45 mg. dose, it must come in 5 mg. tablets. Also, do I take the 45 mgs. all at once, in the morning?OK. Nardil comes in 15mg tablets. You take 3 a day for the first week. I would recommend taking one at 9 am. the next at 12pm and finally one at 3pm. Nardil has a very short half-life, meaning the drug is evacuated from yor body fast. But the EFFECTS of Nardil persist for a long time after removal of the drug. Some do dose all at once, bt I would say split the dose. At least ntil you know how it effects you.
> Yes, ACE, I will be patient. I have no choice but to give it time to work. I feel I am coming to the end of it all, after living for 51 very unhappy years.Well it's time for some happy years...you deserve tham and Nardil will come to the party.
My one worry is trying to work. My job requires me to interact with 500 children, their parents, staff, etc. So I have to try and be okay with public relations and be caring and kind, besides relearning all of the new computer programs. I have been thinking lately, that with all of this suffering and strife in our world, that I am but a small pebble of sand.
It's all perception. Suffering and strife will always be a part of this world. To not have it, is like saying we never want bad weather again! I try to grow and learn from the suffering and strife, to make me into a better and stronger being. You are one among many, just like me, true, but every one has a spark of brilliance in them.
Yet, I also know that to my daughter and 4 grandchildren, and wonderful family, I am more than that, like a mountain really to my only child.
It's wonderful you feel this way about family.
So I must struggle on,
This is a great attitude. You make me proud.
although I have worried much lately that things will be out my control.
Peace will be with you soon.
I also know that I am certainly replaceable at work, as my last sick leave has not been the only one, but my pride and dignity and self worth is so much dependent in being able to work and be productive, beside making money, as I am self supporting.
But please think this way if you can and want to- you are much more than all your productivity...you are worthy independent of prodctivity.
>
> Again, thank you, Ace and McPac, for taking the time for your response and help. So much needed and appreciated, and gives me something to hope for in the Nardil.Nardil comes- suffering ends!
>
> Sorry if my post is rambling and scattered, but again I am panicked, scared and needing to get in the shower and get myself to work.
>
> maryhelenYou are a very brave stong person. You deserve happiness. And Nardil has come to deliver...
Please, please, please keep me informed and ask any qstns at all. If you have any worries, doubts, please throw them at me...
Soldier on, brave soul,
Ace.
Posted by cybercafe on October 29, 2003, at 0:20:38
In reply to McPac/Ace/Nardil.........thanks, posted by maryhelen on October 28, 2003, at 5:15:58
hi... i noticed you wrote you were from toronto..... would you mind if i asked what treatment center you go to (clarke or sunnybrook?) i would like to find a good doctor/team/hospital and i am pretty impressed that you have actually found someone to prescribe you MAOIs in the city......hmmm... and Lamictal!?!i share your experience of having gone through 20 pdocs to find someone who knows what they're doing
> McPAC:
>
> Thank you so much for directing my post to Ace for help. After I posted I had to go to work, made it against all odds and was even able to work late to try to start getting caught up. Came home, 'crashed' big time, and have just come to the computer this morning, 4:00 Toronto time. Have tried to write this post for the third time and have messed it up somehow, so I am trying again. Thanks again and Ace has responded.
>
> ACE:
>
> Although I do not post often, but read all the post regularily, I do know well your struggles with the meds, your other disorders, working hard to do your courses ...... I am fortunate enough to not have to deal with OCD, derealization (sp) etc. but have disabling, treatment resistant, down and out depression, not bi-polar with all of the ups and downs, either depressed, more depressed, suicidally depressed.
>
> Having said all this, I am truly grateful for your response to my questions about Nardil. I do like my current pdoc, whom I have been with for over 2 years now (been through about 20). He knows I come here and is very open and listens to me when I explain that these are the people who are experiencing the meds and have the first hand experience. With my most recent 'crash' he has tried to supplement the Lamitcal with Celexa, and although I started it, I have been on it three times many years ago with not much affect, except few side effects. He next wants me to try the Electro Magnetic Imaging (if I have said this correctly). Have had two rounds of ECT in 6 years and really do not want to try that type of 'brain therapy' at this time, and have currently returned to work and am trying to take off as little time as possible.
>
> He knows I went off the Parnate, and when I phoned him a few days ago I asked if I could try Nardil. I see all of the positive responses, and certainly your confidence in the med. He called me back three times to make sure it does not contradict with Lamitcal and agreed that I could go off the Celexa, cold turkey. I am to call him at home tonight to tell him how I am doing (odd he would give me his home number). Ironically, when I went on the Parnate a few years back, he had prescribed Nardil, but the pharmacist told me it was not available any more. Subsequently, I understand now that, at the time it had been recalled, as you put it, something missing...subpotent Nardil.
>
> Again, although I am happy with my pdoc, I am worried about the info he gets and adheres to from the 'big blue book' about dosing. I am in a desperate situation, did not have many noticeable side effects from Parnate, and do not want to start out on really small doses, if it is not necessary.
>
> Thank you for your recommendations of which I am going to follow. One of my questions is though, as I remember, the Parnate came in little red pills, 10 mgs., with what looked liked a little happy face on it. I do not know about Nardil, but expect if you are suggesting to begin with 45 mg. dose, it must come in 5 mg. tablets. Also, do I take the 45 mgs. all at once, in the morning?
>
> Yes, ACE, I will be patient. I have no choice but to give it time to work. I feel I am coming to the end of it all, after living for 51 very unhappy years. My one worry is trying to work. My job requires me to interact with 500 children, their parents, staff, etc. So I have to try and be okay with public relations and be caring and kind, besides relearning all of the new computer programs. I have been thinking lately, that with all of this suffering and strife in our world, that I am but a small pebble of sand. Yet, I also know that to my daughter and 4 grandchildren, and wonderful family, I am more than that, like a mountain really to my only child. So I must struggle on, although I have worried much lately that things will be out my control. I also know that I am certainly replaceable at work, as my last sick leave has not been the only one, but my pride and dignity and self worth is so much dependent in being able to work and be productive, beside making money, as I am self supporting.
>
> Again, thank you, Ace and McPac, for taking the time for your response and help. So much needed and appreciated, and gives me something to hope for in the Nardil.
>
> Sorry if my post is rambling and scattered, but again I am panicked, scared and needing to get in the shower and get myself to work.
>
> maryhelen
Posted by maryhelen on October 29, 2003, at 3:46:20
In reply to Re: McPac/Ace/Nardil.........thanks » maryhelen, posted by cybercafe on October 29, 2003, at 0:20:38
Hi cybercafe:
I certainly am more than willing to share this information with you, however, because my treatment has much to do with my dual diagnosis of treatment resistant depression and addiction to pain meds, I would need to know more about what your needs are and can better share my experiences with you. Also, this will probably be directed to another board and would also be of interest only if one lives in Toronto. It would be easier for me to talk to you about this if you want to give me your email address. I don't know much about how it works emailing each other off the board. Just let me know. My latest pdoc works both at the Clarke and Donwood.
ARF, Donwood, Clarke and Queen Street are now the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health and are combining soon, with all being moved to Queen Street. Again, it may work better to talk to you through email as I have been through other hospitals in Toronto, and depending on your diagnosis, would be willing to find out where the most remarkable pdoc I have ever met when he was a resident at the Clarke, works from now as I know he is no longer at the Centre.
Counting down the hours, minutes, when I can begin taking the Nardil on Saturday.
Hope to hear from you.
maryhelen
Posted by cybercafe on October 29, 2003, at 15:43:24
In reply to cybercafe re treatment centre, posted by maryhelen on October 29, 2003, at 3:46:20
> Hi cybercafe:
>
> I certainly am more than willing to share this information with you, however, because my treatment has much to do with my dual diagnosis of treatment resistant depression and addiction to pain meds, I would need to know more about what your needs are and can better share my experiences with you. Also, this will probably be directed to another board and would also be of interest only if one lives in Toronto. It would be easier for me to talk to you about this if you want to give me your email address. I don't know much about how it works emailing each other off the board. Just let me know. My latest pdoc works both at the Clarke and Donwood.
>
> ARF, Donwood, Clarke and Queen Street are now the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health and are combining soon, with all being moved to Queen Street. Again, it may work better to talk to you through email as I have been through other hospitals in Toronto, and depending on your diagnosis, would be willing to find out where the most remarkable pdoc I have ever met when he was a resident at the Clarke, works from now as I know he is no longer at the Centre.
>
> Counting down the hours, minutes, when I can begin taking the Nardil on Saturday.
>
> Hope to hear from you.
>
> maryhelen
Thanks. I thought it must have been the Clarke. Do many docs there perscribe MAOIs?I'm glad to hear you're starting Nardil. supposedly it's a great drug.... I just started parnate, and i'm looking forward to it kicking in ...
oooh and 10 days seemed like such a short time, in theory
This is the end of the thread.
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