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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Nohope on August 4, 2003, at 3:34:57
Greetings all.
I am in a very difficult situation and would appreciate any help.
I have had severe panic disorder for over ten years and have just about run out of options.
EVERY single medication I have tried have had one or more of the following side effects:
1) Unbearably dull my intellect (ADs, Anticonvulsants, Benzos (especially))
2) Make me impotent (I am a male)
(ADs (even those not *supposed* to), Benzos)3) Unbearable insomnia (ADs)
4) Don't work (most anticonvulsants, assorted others)
I've even tried ECT as a way out, but it did nothing for me. (In fact it was disastrous because I was off medication while going through it and was left in total hell.)
I am in complete despair. Any help? (Please do not suggest CBT - my problem is way more powerful than that)
Thanking you in advance
Nohope
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on August 4, 2003, at 4:36:37
In reply to Here's a hard one., posted by Nohope on August 4, 2003, at 3:34:57
I'd suggest you try the following combination of supplements. Collectively, it should be very effective at treating all types of depressive, anxious, and panic states:
Thiamine -- 500mg three times daily; increase the dose as necessary
Niacinamide -- 500-1,000mg three times daily, or one to two 1,500mg extended release tablet daily
P-5-P (Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate) -- 50mg three times daily
Sublingual Cyanocobalamin -- 500mcg daily
Choline -- 1,000mg three times daily
Inositol -- 1,000mg three times daily
Vitamin C -- 1,000mg three times daily
Vitamin E -- 2,000 I.U. daily
Calcium lactate -- 500-1,000mg three times daily
Magnesium glycinate -- 1,000mg daily
L-Tryptophan -- 500-1,500mg three times daily
Picamilon -- 50-150mg three times daily
Fish Oil (360mg DHA/240mg EPA per gram)-- 3 grams daily
A complete amino acid formulation
A whole-food multivitamin/multimineral supplement
Sublingual B-complex liquid
Ashwagandha -- 300mg three times daily
Kava Kava extract (at least 70% kavalactones) -- 1ml, as needed
California Poppy extract -- 1-2ml, as needed
I know it sounds like a lot, but a) it'll still probably cost less than medication does, b) practically no side effects, and c) it's sure to provide at least *some* benefit. Any questions about any of these, feel free to ask.
You *could* start off with a lesser number of suppplements, then gradually introduce the others. If you choose to go this route, I'd suggest starting with the thiamine, niacinamide, calcium, magnesium, picamilon, multivitamin/mineral, B-complex, ashwagandha, and either kava kava or California poppy--whichever you find works better for you.
Each and every one of these, except for the multivitamin which is there just to keep things rounded off, has a very calming and/or adaptogenic effect on the nervous system.
Posted by SLS on August 4, 2003, at 7:45:13
In reply to Re: Here's a hard one., posted by Ame Sans Vie on August 4, 2003, at 4:36:37
You have to be careful with choline. It can sometimes make depression worse.
- Scott
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on August 4, 2003, at 8:43:53
In reply to Re: Here's a hard one., posted by SLS on August 4, 2003, at 7:45:13
Yep, you're definitely right about that... but since Nohope seems to be focusing on panic disorder, I think it may help. It would be wise to start at a lower dose though. Thanks for pointing that out.
Posted by Bill L on August 4, 2003, at 9:26:04
In reply to Here's a hard one., posted by Nohope on August 4, 2003, at 3:34:57
I agree with Ame that supplements might help a little but they will not do anything major for your situation.
You need the proper combination of drugs. Ask your doc about combining an antidepressant with Remeron. Remeron can often counteract the impotence and insomnia side effects of other antidepressants. You can take Remeron with Effexor or one of the SSRI's.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on August 4, 2003, at 9:33:43
In reply to Re: Here's a hard one., posted by Bill L on August 4, 2003, at 9:26:04
> I agree with Ame that supplements might help a little but they will not do anything major for your situation.
I don't know... I've personally witnessed some pretty amazing transformations from the proper combinations of supplements. After all, niacinamide exerts the same action as benzodiazepines in the brain, just to a lesser extent and without side effects... and picamilon supplies the brain with extra GABA, one of the two neurotransmitters most often depleted in anxious/panic states. The other being, of course, serotonin, which L-Tryptophan raises levels of. With the proper approach, supplementation can be every bit as powerful, if not more so, as prescription medications.
It's the herbal extracts that really hold the key in panic disorder, though. Kava and California poppy are extremely potent herbs that, more often than not, will stop an impending panic attack dead in its tracks when taken sublingually.
> You need the proper combination of drugs. Ask your doc about combining an antidepressant with Remeron. Remeron can often counteract the impotence and insomnia side effects of other antidepressants. You can take Remeron with Effexor or one of the SSRI's.
Posted by River1924 on August 4, 2003, at 12:47:39
In reply to Re: Here's a hard one., posted by Ame Sans Vie on August 4, 2003, at 9:33:43
Which benzos did you try? One can have very different reactions. How old were when this
started happening? Stelazine and Reminyl work for me for temporary periods of mood swings and irrational avoidance of the world. Do you have sleep disorders...they will make any psychological/psychiatric problem much worse. And of course, if you suffered sexual or physical abuse, you need therapy. Even without any obvious trauma, therapy can be helpful. I didn't like CBT... it was too intellectual and it didn't help a lot. Try diffent kinds Jungian, Ericksonian, Zen/Tibetan etc... a half-way decent process will help, at least, will keep you from hitting the total skids. Good Luck.
Posted by Darby on August 4, 2003, at 13:13:47
In reply to Here's a hard one., posted by Nohope on August 4, 2003, at 3:34:57
After 20 years of dealing with depression and panic, the only thing I've found that worked was the new anti-convulsant Gabitril. I started taking it with my daily dose of Prozac and within a week, the panic attacks disappeared. I've been on it for about a year. It's been great. I've had almost no side effects.
Darby
Posted by Nohope on August 5, 2003, at 2:14:02
In reply to Here's a hard one., posted by Nohope on August 4, 2003, at 3:34:57
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions.
I ran some of them past my pdoc; instead I am continuing ECT and getting a low dose of antipsychotic for my anxiety *sigh*
FWIW I found the memory problems associated with ECT to be pretty minimal: my regular medication is actually worse for me in this respect. The muscle aches and pains, and the fact it dosen't really seem to be working, are the worst things for me.
Nohope
Posted by jerrympls on August 5, 2003, at 2:20:20
In reply to Here's a hard one., posted by Nohope on August 4, 2003, at 3:34:57
> Greetings all.
>
> I am in a very difficult situation and would appreciate any help.
>
> I have had severe panic disorder for over ten years and have just about run out of options.
>
> EVERY single medication I have tried have had one or more of the following side effects:
>
> 1) Unbearably dull my intellect (ADs, Anticonvulsants, Benzos (especially))
>
> 2) Make me impotent (I am a male)
> (ADs (even those not *supposed* to), Benzos)
>
> 3) Unbearable insomnia (ADs)
>
> 4) Don't work (most anticonvulsants, assorted others)
>
> I've even tried ECT as a way out, but it did nothing for me. (In fact it was disastrous because I was off medication while going through it and was left in total hell.)
>
> I am in complete despair. Any help? (Please do not suggest CBT - my problem is way more powerful than that)
>
> Thanking you in advance
>
> Nohope
>
>
>NARDIL
Posted by HenryO on August 5, 2003, at 4:05:04
In reply to Re: Here's a hard one., posted by jerrympls on August 5, 2003, at 2:20:20
I have not personally seen any miraculous transformations due to supplements or herbal remedies.
Have you tried Lamictal? It's not an SSRI. It won't make you impotent. It's working for me after years of treatment resistant depression. I don't know what it can do for anxiety. Many here have complained of poop-out but it's holding for me. It's worth a shot.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on August 5, 2003, at 17:13:42
In reply to Re: Here's a hard one., posted by HenryO on August 5, 2003, at 4:05:04
> I have not personally seen any miraculous transformations due to supplements or herbal remedies.
It's not incredibly common, but many mental and neurological illnesses can be beaten with the right holistic approach. Besides, most people use herbs that are well-known, but quite simply aren't very strong. There are much stronger ones available:
for anxiety/sedation--California poppy, ashwagandha, reishi, blue lotus, skullcap, damiana, thyme, lettuce opium
for depression--blue lotus, betel nut, calamus, muira puama, sassafras, rosemary
for ADHD--betel nut, galangal, kola nut, muira puama, all the anxiety/sedation herbs
for Parkinson's disease--muira puama
for Alzheimer's--huperzine A (club moss extract)
And that's just the very tip of the iceberg... I've personally seen people have great results with all of these.
Also, it's important to keep in mind that, for example, just because one person with panic disorder responds well to niacinamide, fish oil, kava, or what-have-you, it doesn't mean another person will. Just my 2¢. :-)
Posted by HenryO on August 6, 2003, at 2:54:48
In reply to Re: Here's a hard one. » HenryO, posted by Ame Sans Vie on August 5, 2003, at 17:13:42
I do agree. I spritz myself with a mixture of sour litchi nut vinegar and seawater with dash of cheap turpintine. It does absolute wonders for my state of mind. I have a chemist in Greenland mix it for me. These state side chemists use distiled water for establishing neutral pH baselines. Imagine that! They have never even heard of de-ionized glacier runoff. No wonder people remain sick. The correct supplament combination ratios are so critical.
Posted by Nohope on August 6, 2003, at 3:31:09
In reply to Re: Here's a hard one., posted by HenryO on August 5, 2003, at 4:05:04
> Have you tried Lamictal? It's not an SSRI. It won't make you impotent. It's working for me after years of treatment resistant depression. I don't know what it can do for anxiety. Many here have complained of poop-out but it's holding for me. It's worth a shot.
Hi Henry.
Yes, I have tried Lamictal. You are right - it was about the only med that didn't make me impotent. Didn't do anything for my anxiety/panic, unfortunately.
This is the end of the thread.
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