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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jaby on July 14, 2003, at 10:50:00
My dr. says that he thinks he can duplicate the effects of an MAOI without the dietary resctriction by using high doses of say effexor (5-HT & NE) and a stimulant (DA), or other combinations you can imagine, that would increase levels of the three monoamines like an MAOI does.
This is obviously done through a much different mechanism. I wondering what you guys think of this. Seems to me that it would only work from a conceptual standpoint. Otherwise people would have the same reaction to nardil, parnate, selegiline, etc. I would think they all have their own additional subtle mechanisms.
Posted by Ilene on July 14, 2003, at 20:39:18
In reply to Duplicating an MAOI (safer/effective/possible(?)), posted by jaby on July 14, 2003, at 10:50:00
> My dr. says that he thinks he can duplicate the effects of an MAOI without the dietary resctriction by using high doses of say effexor (5-HT & NE) and a stimulant (DA), or other combinations you can imagine, that would increase levels of the three monoamines like an MAOI does.
>
He *thinks* he can? Has he tried it? Has anyone else tried it? Is there any research to back him up?> This is obviously done through a much different mechanism. I wondering what you guys think of this. Seems to me that it would only work from a conceptual standpoint. Otherwise people would have the same reaction to nardil, parnate, selegiline, etc. I would think they all have their own additional subtle mechanisms.
I don't think the dietary restrictions are a big deal. When was the last time anyone died from a hypertensive crisis brought on by a wine and cheese party? I'd be more worried about weight gain and sexual dysfunction. Not like I know, but I may be presented with the MAOI option soon.
I.
Posted by djmmm on July 15, 2003, at 11:52:47
In reply to Re: Duplicating an MAOI (safer/effective/possible( » jaby, posted by Ilene on July 14, 2003, at 20:39:18
> > My dr. says that he thinks he can duplicate the effects of an MAOI without the dietary resctriction by using high doses of say effexor (5-HT & NE) and a stimulant (DA), or other combinations you can imagine, that would increase levels of the three monoamines like an MAOI does.
> >
> He *thinks* he can? Has he tried it? Has anyone else tried it? Is there any research to back him up?
>
> > This is obviously done through a much different mechanism. I wondering what you guys think of this. Seems to me that it would only work from a conceptual standpoint. Otherwise people would have the same reaction to nardil, parnate, selegiline, etc. I would think they all have their own additional subtle mechanisms.
>
> I don't think the dietary restrictions are a big deal. When was the last time anyone died from a hypertensive crisis brought on by a wine and cheese party? I'd be more worried about weight gain and sexual dysfunction. Not like I know, but I may be presented with the MAOI option soon.
>
> I.
>You shouldn't be concerned about weight gain...depression is far more debilitating...not everyone gains weight on nardil, I never did.
Posted by Ilene on July 15, 2003, at 12:23:11
In reply to Re: Duplicating an MAOI (safer/effective/possible(, posted by djmmm on July 15, 2003, at 11:52:47
> You shouldn't be concerned about weight gain...depression is far more debilitating...not everyone gains weight on nardil, I never did.
Maybe you aren't, but I am. I'm already overweight. It's more than "mere" vanity. Weight is a big issue for many people. Maybe it "shouldn't' be, but that doesn't actually change anything for many people, esp. women.
More importantly, lots of people who are depressed have other problems such as diabetes or heart disease, which are exacerbated by excess weight.
I have problems with my feet that are made worse by my weight, which means I can't walk far or even stay on my feet very long.
I have another condition that prevents me from exerting myself. I used to work hard on keeping myself in shape. I'm no athlete (picked last on the team in grade school). I used to swim and bicycle, even did weights for a while, but those trigger my problem. It actually took about a decade to figure out why I was getting sick all the time. If I could walk I wouldn't be so deconditioned.
I know there may be ways around this problem, but I don't have the energy to deal with them now.
I don't want rob Peter to pay Paul. It's a big deal for me. Side effects cause what the MDs call "non-compliance", the implication being that patients aren't cooperating out of ignorance or stupidity. I'm progressing (if you can call it that) from fairly tolerable drugs to ones that are harder to deal with, and *they don't even work.*
I'm getting emotional even posting this message. Am I over-reacting? Most people would think so, but they're not me.
I'm about to launch a rant, but my hand hurts, so I'll leave it alone.
I.
Posted by Bob on July 15, 2003, at 19:31:25
In reply to Re: Duplicating an MAOI (safer/effective/possible( » djmmm, posted by Ilene on July 15, 2003, at 12:23:11
> > You shouldn't be concerned about weight gain...depression is far more debilitating...not everyone gains weight on nardil, I never did.
>
> Maybe you aren't, but I am. I'm already overweight. It's more than "mere" vanity. Weight is a big issue for many people. Maybe it "shouldn't' be, but that doesn't actually change anything for many people, esp. women.
>
> More importantly, lots of people who are depressed have other problems such as diabetes or heart disease, which are exacerbated by excess weight.
>
> I have problems with my feet that are made worse by my weight, which means I can't walk far or even stay on my feet very long.
>
> I have another condition that prevents me from exerting myself. I used to work hard on keeping myself in shape. I'm no athlete (picked last on the team in grade school). I used to swim and bicycle, even did weights for a while, but those trigger my problem. It actually took about a decade to figure out why I was getting sick all the time. If I could walk I wouldn't be so deconditioned.
>
> I know there may be ways around this problem, but I don't have the energy to deal with them now.
>
> I don't want rob Peter to pay Paul. It's a big deal for me. Side effects cause what the MDs call "non-compliance", the implication being that patients aren't cooperating out of ignorance or stupidity. I'm progressing (if you can call it that) from fairly tolerable drugs to ones that are harder to deal with, and *they don't even work.*
>
> I'm getting emotional even posting this message. Am I over-reacting? Most people would think so, but they're not me.
>
> I'm about to launch a rant, but my hand hurts, so I'll leave it alone.
>
> I.I don't think you're overreacting at all. The dismissal of significant weight gain and the loss of sexual libido can be absolute showstoppers for many. Humans simply are not programmed to want to be overweight, or to not be able to feel their genitals. Being thin and sexually desireable is deeply, deeply ingrained in the human psyche, like it, or not. That's the way it is. It is not right to tell someone else they should not care about it. BTW, I have suffered from (and still do) suicidal depression for years. I don't want to be depressed, or suicidal. I also don't want to be 40 pounds overweight and never be able to have sex again. Of course, I am in a third category, where I've gained weight, my libido is suppressed, and the medecines don't work well.
Posted by Ilene on July 15, 2003, at 21:56:34
In reply to Re: Duplicating an MAOI (safer/effective/possible( » Ilene, posted by Bob on July 15, 2003, at 19:31:25
> I don't think you're overreacting at all.
Hurray!
The dismissal of significant weight gain and the loss of sexual libido can be absolute showstoppers for many. Humans simply are not programmed to want to be overweight, or to not be able to feel their genitals. Being thin and sexually desireable is deeply, deeply ingrained in the human psyche, like it, or not. That's the way it is. It is not right to tell someone else they should not care about it. BTW, I have suffered from (and still do) suicidal depression for years.
Depression for decades. Suicidal off and on. Anxiety has gotten severe lately. Sleep disorder. Probably neurological problems. Plummeting blood pressure. Chronic fatigue syndrome. Nothing anybody can see.
I don't want to be depressed, or suicidal. I also don't want to be 40 pounds overweight and never be able to have sex again. Of course, I am in a third category, where I've gained weight, my libido is suppressed, and the medecines don't work well.
>
>
This could be the start of a beautiful relationship. Let's get together and stare at the ceiling.I.
Posted by Bob on July 15, 2003, at 22:38:48
In reply to Re: Duplicating an MAOI (safer/effective/possible( » Bob, posted by Ilene on July 15, 2003, at 21:56:34
>
> Depression for decades. Suicidal off and on. Anxiety has gotten severe lately. Sleep disorder. Probably neurological problems. Plummeting blood pressure. Chronic fatigue syndrome. Nothing anybody can see.
>"Nothing anybody can see". That somes it all up. Our conditions have only a pseudo-legitimacy since science is not able to diagnose anything irrefutably. It sucks.
> This could be the start of a beautiful relationship. Let's get together and stare at the ceiling.
>I don't know if I can find the time.
Just kidding.
Posted by cybercafe on July 15, 2003, at 23:56:10
In reply to Duplicating an MAOI (safer/effective/possible(?)), posted by jaby on July 14, 2003, at 10:50:00
> My dr. says that he thinks he can duplicate the effects of an MAOI without the dietary resctriction by using high doses of say effexor (5-HT & NE) and a stimulant (DA), or other combinations you can imagine, that would increase levels of the three monoamines like an MAOI does.
>
> This is obviously done through a much different mechanism. I wondering what you guys think of this. Seems to me that it would only work from a conceptual standpoint. Otherwise people would have the same reaction to nardil, parnate, selegiline, etc. I would think they all have their own additional subtle mechanisms.
i found parnate worked for me where effexor and celexa didn't ... i also found celexa + ritalin and effexor + ritalin worked for me .... so in my case, i'd say MAOI and SSRI + stimulant are both pretty good in terms of efficacy where SSRIs are only moderately effective (but a hell of a lot better than nothing!!)
Posted by MelD on July 16, 2003, at 20:07:57
In reply to Re: Duplicating an MAOI (safer/effective/possible(?)), posted by cybercafe on July 15, 2003, at 23:56:10
I dont know anything about the combo you mentioned, but as for MAOIs - many experience weight loss and increased libido on Parnate. In my case, i gained a bit of weight (rare), but my libido is doing much better :} Good luck with whatever you decide, Melodie (age 53 and embarrassingly horny, lol)
Posted by cybercafe on July 16, 2003, at 22:54:13
In reply to Re: Duplicating an MAOI (safer/effective/possible(?)), posted by MelD on July 16, 2003, at 20:07:57
> I dont know anything about the combo you mentioned, but as for MAOIs - many experience weight loss and increased libido on Parnate. In my case, i gained a bit of weight (rare), but my libido is doing much better :} Good luck with whatever you decide, Melodie (age 53 and embarrassingly horny, lol)
i have never had a libido as strong as when i was on parnate... damn i miss that drug
Posted by maxime on July 17, 2003, at 19:40:09
In reply to Re: Duplicating an MAOI (safer/effective/possible(?)), posted by cybercafe on July 15, 2003, at 23:56:10
Effexor is not an SSRI. And before you start Parnate or Nardil you have get the SSRI OUT of your system, dangerous combo.
Max
> i found parnate worked for me where effexor and celexa didn't ... i also found celexa + ritalin and effexor + ritalin worked for me .... so in my case, i'd say MAOI and SSRI + stimulant are both pretty good in terms of efficacy where SSRIs are only moderately effective (but a hell of a lot better than nothing!!)
>
This is the end of the thread.
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