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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by fluffy on July 13, 2003, at 17:46:36
In reply to Re: Lamictal--Attn: Barbara Cat, Re: Li add on » fluffy, posted by Barbara Cat on July 13, 2003, at 15:32:34
Thank you Barbara Cat--
That's an encouraging (personal) endorsement for the two in combination. I'm going to talk about this with my doc...I'm sure he'll be eager to try it out on me. There is a very convincing recent study done by the NIMH about Li and Lamictal in combination. (he was babbling about it at my last visit) So I wouldn't be at all surprised if he concurs about my situation.
So you take Ambien EVERY night??? I thought it was addictive, and they (doctors) don't encourage its use for more than 5 nights in a row! My doc was explicit about this--he probably wouldn't refill for me even if I begged and cried! PLUS the damned things should be made of platinum...$3 a pop for one teensy 5mg pill! But I have to say that i sleep like a BABY--better than any other sleep aid. I wouldn't mind one every night if I could afford them and/or my doc wouldn't have my head on a platter!
Thanks again--I'll keep in touch
Katy
Posted by Barbara Cat on July 13, 2003, at 19:22:52
In reply to Re: Lamictal » Barbara Cat, posted by Jennifer N. on July 13, 2003, at 12:29:06
Yikes on the lithium! Thanks for the head's up. I am more thirsty and pee more lately. I'll mention it to my pdoc but doubt I'll be stopping it unless something else works as well. I wonder if there are any natural remedies to offset lithium side effects.
I share your work till you drop syndrome. We feel so bad and then once the sun starts shining again, it's time to make up for lost time, yowza! I keep having to learn the lesson to pace myself, break away from the job and go outside, get some air and exercise. One huge bit of advice I can offer is to remember to BREATHE. It's so common to hold our breath when we get busy, frazled, stressed, whatever. Disordered breathing is a sure way to get panic attacks, anxiety, blood pressure disorders. Anyhow, you'll probably enjoy Home Depot once you get the hang of it. Getting out can be fun if we're up for it. If it doesn't work out you know it's not the only job in the world. - Barbara
Posted by Barbara Cat on July 13, 2003, at 19:39:14
In reply to Re: Li add on-THANKS Barbara Cat!, posted by fluffy on July 13, 2003, at 17:46:36
Katy,
If you can find out the source of that lamictal/lithium study, please let me know. I've heard that they were made for each other and I agree, but haven't seen anything on it.Yes, unfortunately I do take Ambien every night and wouldn't be surprised if I've developed a nice little tolerance, but a girl's gotta get her rest. You think Ambien every night is bad? Sometimes when I'm really wired I have to add 10mg of valium and I'm STILL wide awake. It's really crummy, since I do so enjoy my sleep and wonderful dreams.
As I work with my naturopath and read up on similar symptoms to mine it's looking like my cortisol clock is flipped. I get a burst of energy at night and can't wind down no matter what I do. Eventually I'll get my overall hormonal system in balance and will wean off sleep meds.
> Thank you Barbara Cat--
>
> That's an encouraging (personal) endorsement for the two in combination. I'm going to talk about this with my doc...I'm sure he'll be eager to try it out on me. There is a very convincing recent study done by the NIMH about Li and Lamictal in combination. (he was babbling about it at my last visit) So I wouldn't be at all surprised if he concurs about my situation.
>
> So you take Ambien EVERY night??? I thought it was addictive, and they (doctors) don't encourage its use for more than 5 nights in a row! My doc was explicit about this--he probably wouldn't refill for me even if I begged and cried! PLUS the damned things should be made of platinum...$3 a pop for one teensy 5mg pill! But I have to say that i sleep like a BABY--better than any other sleep aid. I wouldn't mind one every night if I could afford them and/or my doc wouldn't have my head on a platter!
>
> Thanks again--I'll keep in touch
> Katy
Posted by starlight on July 14, 2003, at 16:28:23
In reply to Re: Lamictal-Barbara » starlight, posted by Barbara Cat on July 12, 2003, at 12:21:44
Barbara,
I'm Bipolar (at first we thought it was Bipolar II) but I suffer from mixed states which I think is more representative of BP I. I can be depressed as hell and running down the street. Get that! I'm on 1800 Trileptal and 200 Lamictal per day. My pdoc calls me high functioning.
And it's true, I have a great job besides teaching yoga, am creative, sing with a band and write music, have a wonderful husband. Where my disease comes into play is with the wild swings, especially the depressive side which can bring on suicidal ideation.
Unfortunatly as a result from being on wellbutrin for a couple of years, I was probably kindled into mania - I was talking a mile a minute and practically running when I walked.
I think the yoga/spiritual crowd is usually better educated and has the income to be able to afford better health care. Plus, don't forget the whole spiritual thingy being tied in with bipolar. I hear the angels singing!
The one thing with me and meds was that I insisted on something that would not make me feel too dopey.
starlight
Posted by Barbara Cat on July 14, 2003, at 20:47:05
In reply to Re: Lamictal-Barbara, posted by starlight on July 14, 2003, at 16:28:23
Starlight,
You think mixed states is more representative of BP-I than II? I was wondering about that myself. I get 'normal' depressions on occasion but the mixed states are absolute hell. I descend into an almost psychotic state where everything is painful and despairing. Unlike garden variety depression I feel things too sharply, cry and wail and can sometimes have hallucinations. I get precognitions that unfortunately play out, but they are all of the doom variety. The world becomes an apocolyptic nightmare where the singing angels fly away and abandon us. We are lost in the mind of an insane God. It takes me over completely. I hardly sleep, and it feels like my nerve endings are scorched. Very wild, a place that might be fascinating to explore if it weren't so horrific and debilitating. I would almost call it schizophrenia if it weren't so cyclical. I haven't had one of these doozeys since starting lithium.Who knows what our stuff really is? For me, it's probably a highly attuned sensitivity that's gone awry, circuits miswired. Any thoughts would be appreciated. I haven't met many mixed-states on this board. - Barbara
Posted by cleo on July 14, 2003, at 21:31:29
In reply to Re: Lamictal-Barbara, posted by starlight on July 11, 2003, at 14:22:38
I was recently diagnosed with bipolar about two years ago. well I guess that's not that recent. I don't really see how I have it though. I know that I have bad bouts of depression, but I don't know about the mania part of it. I'm impulsive when it comes to shopping sprees.I know that is a symptom. Icompumpulsively eat when the mood hits me. But I do these things to make myself feel better at the time, of course I don't know that at the time. I am in massive debt and I almost lost my cheking acount forever. Does this sound like bipolar to anyone? What are some of your experiences?
cleo
Posted by pasdenom on July 14, 2003, at 21:37:36
In reply to BIPOLAR QUESTION?, posted by cleo on July 14, 2003, at 21:31:29
Cleo,
Yes it does sound like bipolar to me, but not the worst kind. There's Bipolar I, II, cyclothymia, etc. If depression is your worst symptom you probably have bipolar II like I do. By the way, what meds are you on?
Posted by cleo on July 14, 2003, at 22:12:44
In reply to Re: BIPOLAR QUESTION?, posted by pasdenom on July 14, 2003, at 21:37:36
> Cleo,
> Yes it does sound like bipolar to me, but not the worst kind. There's Bipolar I, II, cyclothymia, etc. If depression is your worst symptom you probably have bipolar II like I do. By the way, what meds are you on?I've been on every one out there. But I'm on Lamictal at 300mg, serzone400mg, topamax 300mg, paxil 100mg. And these meds have been reduced! He just took me off of wellbutrin and I was taking 800mg of serzone. He's also going to increase my lamictal. He said that I was a difficult patient to diagnose. Do the shopping sprees make me have hypomania?
Posted by sarita0001 on July 14, 2003, at 22:42:53
In reply to BIPOLAR QUESTION?, posted by cleo on July 14, 2003, at 21:31:29
> I was recently diagnosed with bipolar about two years ago. well I guess that's not that recent. I don't really see how I have it though. I know that I have bad bouts of depression, but I don't know about the mania part of it. I'm impulsive when it comes to shopping sprees.I know that is a symptom. Icompumpulsively eat when the mood hits me. But I do these things to make myself feel better at the time, of course I don't know that at the time. I am in massive debt and I almost lost my cheking acount forever. Does this sound like bipolar to anyone? What are some of your experiences?
>
> cleoCleo-
Just a little about my experience...
I was diagnosed 7 years ago after a manic episode($2000 shopping spree, car accident, no sleep for a week, etc). People said I just wasn't myself. Immediately after that I went on lithium and have been on it since then and had no manic episodes, but some depression here and there. I am more of the depressive type. I am still trying to figure out of I have it(by trying to go off lithium completely) and what causes me to feel depressed. It is hard but one of the most important things is to have a psychiatrist you trust.S
Posted by McPac on July 15, 2003, at 0:04:23
In reply to Re: BIPOLAR QUESTION?, posted by sarita0001 on July 14, 2003, at 22:42:53
"no sleep for a week"
For 7 straight days and nights? You'd think the body would just collapse at that point! If I don't sleep for 1 whole night I feel like total CRUD!
Posted by sarita0001 on July 15, 2003, at 9:06:43
In reply to Re: BIPOLAR QUESTION?, posted by McPac on July 15, 2003, at 0:04:23
> "no sleep for a week"
>
> For 7 straight days and nights? You'd think the body would just collapse at that point! If I don't sleep for 1 whole night I feel like total CRUD!Was exagerrating a bit... probably 3-4 hours each night for 7 days. Not to mention I was also smoking pot and drinking.
Posted by joebob on July 15, 2003, at 13:23:08
In reply to Re: New Med Question » Alylene, posted by BarbaraCat on December 5, 2002, at 15:36:45
my doc gave me depakote for 2 weeks prior to starting lexapro next week..........
i am wondering how much dep i might need and will i need to keep taking it after the lex kicks in?
> Why the heck are you on Lexapro? It sounds like you're having classic Bipolar II cycling, an absolute SURE THING eventuality with any antidepressant in the absence of a mood stabilizer. Zyprexa can be of help if it's the right med for you, but it can also affect dopamine which, if it's NOT the right med for you, will plunge you into a very scary place. Weight gain will be the least of your concerns. Hang in there and know that there's something not working with you med combo and royally screwing up your chemistry. Sheesh, if I was on that combo, I know I'd be in the throes of a schizoid mixed state frenzy. Have you read "Why your depression isn't getting better", Dr. M. Bartos yet? Read it. Your symptoms and probable solution are spelled out in black and white. This should be mandatory reading for any pdoc but go figure. - BarbaraCat
>
> > Help...After six great weeks of feeling completely normal, not depressed, and not manic, I have started to spike up toward hypomania...insominia, mind racing and high irritability. Anyway, I went to my psydoc and she put me on Zyprexa (2.5 mg) in addition to my 20 mg of Lexapro. But...she said that weight gain is probable. UGH! If this is true then I'll be back in the depths of depression in no time. Are there any success stories of taking Zyprexa and NOT gaining weight?
>
>
Posted by starlight on July 15, 2003, at 14:39:55
In reply to Re: Lamictal-Barbara » starlight, posted by Barbara Cat on July 14, 2003, at 20:47:05
From what I've read, it appears that mixed is more representative of BPI. I too get some hallucinations - especially auditory. Some visuals as well. The depressions are very difficult for me and actually with the Lamictal, I'm doing much better. I'm thinking of asking for one more bump up just to ensure that I can maintain and avoid another fall.
I have alot of angst - same stuff, feel pain, can easily pick up on other people's pain and will cry with little provocation. My mixed states usually mean that during the down part I'm agitated more yet still function and can actually have alot of energy and still feel like shit. The other thing that's a challenge for me is the need to inflict pain upon myself. I don't cut or anything like that but will want to feel pain.
I've had some truly amazing visions, and feel quite blessed to have experienced them, they have changed my entire perspective on life and how I view it (but you know, the whole spiritual aspect of bipolars, yada, yada, yada). That, to me is the creative artist thing that makes us visionaries so that we can project a different, hopefully better world in our art.
I've never had much of a problem sleeping - though can easily operate on about 5 hours no problem. I have experienced days in my early 20's where I operated for days with almost no sleep. I would drink and party and stay up all night, and go to work and then repeat the whole thing for days on end.
starlight
Posted by Barbara Cat on July 15, 2003, at 17:19:36
In reply to Re: Lamictal-Barbara, posted by starlight on July 15, 2003, at 14:39:55
Well gee, we sure do sound like we have similar maladies, even to the party hearty in my 20's. I even went to Woodstock so you can extrapolate from there where my head and drug taking was. I've begun to suspect Bipolar I but this affirms it. Don't know what else I can do other than what I am doing with lithium and lamictal.
I've been slowly increasing lamictal while I decrease nortriptyline. I'm noticing a positive change all around. I'm up to 125mg and will probably stay here for a while and then up to 150mg. About the only common experience I don't have is the need to inflict pain on myself. My episodes are usually accompanied by a fibromyalgia flare which provides plenty of pain. Even so, I know there's some great gift in all of this and as damned difficult as it is, from a higher perspective I know it's providing something necessary for my growth.
Yes, I know what you mean about the visions. Amazing, life affirming, transcendant visions. It's when I'm in a really bad state that I forget about them or chalk them up to delusions. I now believe that people with 'different' wiring are more open to the unseen realms, if they have that desire. I'll bet you also saw little elementals and fairies when you were a kid.
Posted by Barbara Cat on July 15, 2003, at 17:30:35
In reply to for barbaracat.......lexapro and depakote » BarbaraCat, posted by joebob on July 15, 2003, at 13:23:08
> my doc gave me depakote for 2 weeks prior to starting lexapro next week..........
> i am wondering how much dep i might need and will i need to keep taking it after the lex kicks in?
>
I don't have experience with either drug, however, if you're bipolar you'll need depakote or some other mood stabiliser, especially if you're taking lex. Please be aware that any of the SSRI type meds can be BIG trouble for bipolars. If you start feeling like you're cycling wildly and jumping out of your skin, it's time to re-evaluate and/or ask your doctor if they are aware of this problem. Many docs are not. I know that many on this board have posted their experiences with lex and might be able to give more info than I can. Good luck to you. - Barbara
Posted by pasdenom on July 15, 2003, at 18:57:12
In reply to Re: BIPOLAR QUESTION?, posted by cleo on July 14, 2003, at 22:12:44
> > Cleo,
> > Yes it does sound like bipolar to me, but not the worst kind. There's Bipolar I, II, cyclothymia, etc. If depression is your worst symptom you probably have bipolar II like I do. By the way, what meds are you on?
>
> I've been on every one out there. But I'm on Lamictal at 300mg, serzone400mg, topamax 300mg, paxil 100mg. And these meds have been reduced! He just took me off of wellbutrin and I was taking 800mg of serzone. He's also going to increase my lamictal. He said that I was a difficult patient to diagnose. Do the shopping sprees make me have hypomania?Cleo,
the shopping sprees are indicative of hypomania. When you are going on them do you feel giddy, really happy, out of control?
I also am on lamictal which did help curb my hypomania. I was not difficult to diagnose because I have an unbelievable family history of the disorder on my father's side of the family--just about everyone has either bipolarI or II. My 9 year old daughter has it, my 20 year old is cyclothymic and my 16 year old has many prodromal signs, meaning she could develop it later on.Anyway, no matter what you call what you have, if the meds help you lead a more normal life, that's good!
Posted by kaybo on July 15, 2003, at 20:33:12
In reply to Re: Lamictal-Barbara » starlight, posted by Barbara Cat on July 15, 2003, at 17:19:36
Hey there,
Just kind of stumbled onto your thread here. Definitely relating to it all. I am finally starting to stabalize on my meds. Again. Been pretty much a two year on again, off again battle. I'm now on 150mg Lamictal and 900mg of Trileptol. Plus I need to take something to sleep or I'm in a state of aware dreaming all night. I've been taking Seroquel. Then tried Zyprexa and started feeling surreal during the day.
I'm a screenwriter. Another messed up artist I guess. Had many moments of spiritual "awakening" and I feel like part of my extended depressed state stems from feeling that those moments were really induced by the disorder. I was way into searching for enlightenment and now am afraid to tread anywhere near it. My major manic episode was brought on by a combination of heavy antidepressants, stress, a couple weeks of no sleep and a bunch of mushrooms. I thought I had figured it all out. Then I exploded. And crashed extremely hard after being put on high doses of Depakote. Later added Wellbutrin, but never got through the darkness. Started over again about five months ago. The Lamictal seems to be working well to ease the depression, but I'm still not quite fully there yet. Pdoc keeps the Trileptol on board to keep the threat of mania away. I'm not so sure about it. I'm looking so forward to the day when the cloud disappears and I can see clearly.
peace.
Posted by cleo on July 15, 2003, at 23:14:57
In reply to Re: BIPOLAR QUESTION?, posted by pasdenom on July 15, 2003, at 18:57:12
> > > Cleo,
> > > Yes it does sound like bipolar to me, but not the worst kind. There's Bipolar I, II, cyclothymia, etc. If depression is your worst symptom you probably have bipolar II like I do. By the way, what meds are you on?
> >
> > I've been on every one out there. But I'm on Lamictal at 300mg, serzone400mg, topamax 300mg, paxil 100mg. And these meds have been reduced! He just took me off of wellbutrin and I was taking 800mg of serzone. He's also going to increase my lamictal. He said that I was a difficult patient to diagnose. Do the shopping sprees make me have hypomania?
>
> Cleo,
> the shopping sprees are indicative of hypomania. When you are going on them do you feel giddy, really happy, out of control?
> I also am on lamictal which did help curb my hypomania. I was not difficult to diagnose because I have an unbelievable family history of the disorder on my father's side of the family--just about everyone has either bipolarI or II. My 9 year old daughter has it, my 20 year old is cyclothymic and my 16 year old has many prodromal signs, meaning she could develop it later on.
>
> Anyway, no matter what you call what you have, if the meds help you lead a more normal life, that's good!When I go on shopping sprees and buy food I get really exited and "happy" because the world has so many opportunities for me now. I can get anything I want and when the bill comes, no big deal, who cares about that! I would get on the internet at midnight and shop for clothes and jewelry that I didn't even want. My mother maybe mentioned the other day that she liked gold bracelets, so I'd go and buy one and two and three. I bought two lbs of Fannie May candy on the net and paid $20 next day air mail which cost more than the candy???? I just wasn't thinking right or I didn't care. I ordered take out from expensive restaurants and if they delivered, I was glad to pay the high delivery fee. Who cares?
I ate that about every day till my credit card was reaching its limit, and I couldn't even pay the minimums. I'm 26 and was 6,000 in debt all together. Due to circumstances that were my fault and not, I had to file bankruptcy two years ago.
Posted by McPac on July 15, 2003, at 23:30:41
In reply to Re: for barbaracat.......lexapro and depakote » joebob, posted by Barbara Cat on July 15, 2003, at 17:30:35
Barb, is Lexapro any worse than the other ssri's for bipolars, from what you've read/heard (as far as causing problems)?
"Please be aware that any of the SSRI type meds can be BIG trouble for bipolars."
>>>>>>>Barb, are the ssri's known to be worse than other AD's for causing bipolars' problems? If so, any idea why? Thanks!!!
Posted by Barbara Cat on July 16, 2003, at 0:53:27
In reply to Barb, for barbaracat.......lexapro and depakote, posted by McPac on July 15, 2003, at 23:30:41
I haven't had experience with Lexapro but I've heard that it causes the same cycling and kindling as other SSRI's. Lexapro is Celexa but with a modified structure. It's still an 'SSRI-type' drug. I'm not aware of any SSRI or other AD's that aren't destabilizing for bipolars. The recommendation for bipolar depression is lamictal rather than SSRI's. It's working well for me.
As far as why, a book called "Why your depression isn't getting better", by Michael Bartos, MD, explains it very well. Very worth reading. I got mine from Amazon. You could also do a web search on bipolar+SSRI and you'll find a wealth of info. Here's a good article on it:
http://mhsource.com/expert/exp1052796c.html
> Barb, is Lexapro any worse than the other ssri's for bipolars, from what you've read/heard (as far as causing problems)?
>
> "Please be aware that any of the SSRI type meds can be BIG trouble for bipolars."
>
> >>>>>>>Barb, are the ssri's known to be worse than other AD's for causing bipolars' problems? If so, any idea why? Thanks!!!
Posted by Barbara Cat on July 16, 2003, at 1:13:56
In reply to Re: Lamictal-Barbara, posted by kaybo on July 15, 2003, at 20:33:12
Dear Kaybo,
I know what you mean about the darkness. Edgar Allen Poe and Vincent Van Gogh had it in spades, even though one would consider them quite creative. At what price? Have you read "Touched by Fire", by Kaye Jamison Redfield? All the luminaries are there, all seemingly bipolar. My worst episodes were triggered by SSRI's. I was taking all different brands for over 10 years because I was supposedly major depressive. No one could figure out why they weren't working until I came to this board and figured it out myself. I've had good results with lithium and lamictal. Haven't had even one of those Grim Reaper depressions since. I've been quite down at times, but not psychotically bereft.So, about your enlightenment quest. My understanding of this state has much to do with quiet and centered being in the face of life's storms. The dazzle I was looking for was just more of ego's tricks. I've stopped searching for enlightenment and am just too happy to have a refreshing meditation these days. Stepping out of my revving mind and noticing what's going on in the here and now is more than enough. I experimented with many mind altering substances and was brought to the doorway. But I had to step through with just me and my screwed up self. And the guidance of Spirit when I allow myself to trust in it. - Barbara
Posted by fluffy on July 16, 2003, at 13:01:01
In reply to Re: Lamictal-Barbara » kaybo, posted by Barbara Cat on July 16, 2003, at 1:13:56
Hey Barbara Cat!
I've found the perfect sleep aid!! Just put Gosford Park in the DVD player...one hour later--sound asleep!
I am upping my dose of Lamictal again--I went down due to a sicky feeling when I was on 200mg. So far, so good. My doc seems pretty set on this Lamictal monotherapy thing right now. I've been feeling better so far this week...so I guess the proof is in the pudding.
I do wonder if Lithium would squelch my artwork. I have noticed that I'm more productive and creative on Lamictal, since I'm not a depressed blur anymore. I also feel that my hypomanias are too confusing to lead to artwork or creative thought--just unfinished projects, drinking and smoking too much pot, and running around like a chicken with my head cut off. I'm ready to load the Li ammunition if I start having problems again.
Is anyone on this thread an artist of any type who is on Lithium? I'm curious what your experience is.
Katy
Posted by Barbara Cat on July 16, 2003, at 13:53:35
In reply to Re: Gosford Park, Li and creativity, posted by fluffy on July 16, 2003, at 13:03:03
Gosford Park was truly boring and dumb. Robert Altman's obsessive chitter-chatter movies are annoying at best. I can't believe it got some kind of Oscar. I gave away my copy to the local library so perhaps some other poor soul is getting a good night's sleep.
I'm an artist, not making a living on it but have certain talents that seem to go along with bipolar. I play piano, flute, sing, and teach dance part time. I also dabble with watercolor. In my bipolar career, I've started numerous art projects for which I had talent and passion, but no focus or staying power. My garage looks like an art supply warehouse. No one could possibly carry through with all those creative ideas in two or three lifetimes.
I've found my creative output (not necessarily my creativity, which is part of me) has been enhanced tremendously with lithium and lamictal. I may not get the flashes of sublime inspiration, but at least I can rub two thoughts together and carry through with my projects. I don't think those epiphanies are ever wasted, however. They live in my neural networks and still inspire me. I was much too frazzled before and resorted to wine and opiods to ground me. Fat chance of getting anything meaningful done while snookered. Or paralyzed with bleak despair.
I wonder about the visual arts vs. the more tactile ones. Everything was so much more intense when I was tweaked, colors, shapes. Vincent Van Gogh still painted during the worst of his manias. But I don't think intense vivid angst is the only worthwhile art subject. There is beauty and perfection in the simplicity of a zen watercolor.
Posted by cleo on July 16, 2003, at 15:55:46
In reply to Barb, for barbaracat.......lexapro and depakote, posted by McPac on July 15, 2003, at 23:30:41
mcpac,
i'm curious to know why you wrote that ssri's can be big trouble for bipolars? All types of bp? I have bipolar and have noticed that lamictal has been the best med for me out of all of the many that i've taken.cleo
Posted by Sabina on July 16, 2003, at 18:19:40
In reply to Re: Gosford Park, Li and creativity » fluffy, posted by Barbara Cat on July 16, 2003, at 13:53:35
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