![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 5 to 29 of 29. Go back in thread:
Posted by ncfelines on May 22, 2003, at 13:25:07
In reply to Re: L-Tryptophan HEALTH WARNINGS, posted by Chris O on May 22, 2003, at 10:55:04
I was just trying to help and appreciate the responses. I know I am currently in the process of trying different supplements and find it scary when things are on the shelf for a couple of years and then suddenly found to cause liver damage, etc. That is why I try to do lots of internet research before I take anything. Even that is not 100%, but I do want to try to share any information that can help any of us and keep us safe. I put it out there because it was the first of many articles and pieces that I found that warned against taking this one. I am sorry that you find my trying to help to be "inflamatory" STJAMES! Seriously, I have no way of knowing your (or anybody's) state of mind or the kind of day you are having. However, I'd like to respectfully suggest we all consider giving our fellow psycho-babblers a little benefit of doubt when at all possible. It seems to me we are here to find help and/or support in many difficult situations and decision-making processes. Let's try to be good to each other? THANK YOU! :)
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 22, 2003, at 13:54:42
In reply to Re: L-Tryptophan HEALTH WARNINGS, posted by Chris O on May 22, 2003, at 10:55:04
> Larry:
>
> I'm no expert on amino acid supplementation, but I did have a scary experience with l-typtophan this year. I bought it from a company called Lidtke, who, I guess, is selling it illegally on some health food store shelves. Of course, on their website they have lots of marketing info about how their l-tryp is "pure and uncontaminated", etc. Well, a day after I took 1,000mg of the Lidtke l-tryp, I had strange muscle spasms in my arms, legs, and calves. These lasted for about a week. I have never felt anything like this in my life. I went to see a doctor because I knew these symptoms mimicked those of EMS. He was young, did not appear conservative to me, and seemed to know a good deal about EMS. He informed me that there is too much unknown about taking individual amino acid supplements and that it was not only people who took the genetically-modified Japanese version of l-tryp in 1989 who got EMS. I guess people who have gotten those symptoms off other single amino acid supplements too. Bottom line for me is that I would love to take something l-tryp if it was well studied, validated, "safe", but despite my distaste for the pharmaceutical industry and the conventional medical industry, I don't think l-tryp is a viable alternative to meds yet. I wish it was.I'd like to expand on my position, if I may.
By no means was I intending to suggest that l-tryptophan supplementation is completely safe. There are far too many variables, including genetic factors, for me to ever suggest something like that.
What got me about the original posting was the generalization from a specific form of contamination to the general utility of l-tryptophan use. Moreover, the analogy between MSG sensitivity and the risk of sensitivity to tryptophan is less than apt; glutamate is a neurotransmitter, whereas tryptophan is not.
Your personal reaction must serve as a precautionary consideration, however, there is no way to determine whether your reaction is idiosyncratic, or due to the properties of the supplement you consumed. Despite the similarity of symptoms you experienced to those of EMS, there has never been a reported incidence of EMS *even from the most heavily contaminated batches of l-tryptophan* which followed a single dose of 1 gram. There just couldn't possibly have been enough 1,1'-ethylidenebis[L-tryptophan] in the small sample you consumed, nor sufficient time for your immune system to have reacted to the contaminant, thereby producing symptomatic EMS.
One of the most conservative medical teams doing systematic reviews of various treatment strategies is the Cochrane team. Although they conclude that there is insufficient evidence for a clear benefit of l-tryptophan supplementation, there is sufficient evidence to suggest a positive effect over placebo. In broad strokes, that is evidence that it *will* work for some people.
Cochrane Database Syst Rev 2002;(1):CD003198Update of:
Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2001;(3):CD003198.Tryptophan and 5-hydroxytryptophan for depression.
Shaw K, Turner J, Del Mar C.
School of Population Health, University of Queensland, Public Health Building, Herston Rd, Herston, Queensland, Australia, 4006. k.shaw@sph.uq.edu.au
BACKGROUND: 5 Hydroxytryptophan (5-HTP) and tryptophan are so-called natural alternatives to traditional antidepressants, used to treat unipolar depression and dysthymia. OBJECTIVES: To determine whether 5-HTP and tryptophan are more effective than placebo, and whether they are safe to use to treat depressive disorders in adults. SEARCH STRATEGY: Trials were searched in computerized general (Medline, Psychlit, and Embase) and specialized databases (Cochrane Controlled Clinical Trials Register, Cochrane Collaboration Depression, Anxiety and Neurosis Controlled Trial Register); by checking reference lists of relevant articles; by handsearching relevant specialist journals; and by contacting relevant authors where appropriate. Publications in all languages were sought. SELECTION CRITERIA: Trials were included if they were randomized, included patients with unipolar depression or dysthymia, compared preparations of 5-HTP or tryptophan with placebo, and included clinical outcomes assessed by scales assessing depressive symptoms. DATA COLLECTION AND ANALYSIS: Data was extracted independently by the three reviewers, onto data collection forms. Inclusion criteria were applied to all potential studies independently and a coefficient of agreement (Kappa) was calculated for them. Disagreement was resolved by reaching consensus. Trial quality was scored according to risk of bias. Analysis for 5-HTP and tryptophan were combined due to the small number of included trials. MAIN RESULTS: 108 trials were located using the specified search strategy. Of these, only two trials, involving a total of 64 patients, were of sufficient quality to meet inclusion criteria. The available evidence suggests these substances were better than placebo at alleviating depression (Peto Odds Ratio 4.10; 95% confidence interval 1.28-13.15; RD 0.36; NNT 2.78). However, the evidence was of insufficient quality to be conclusive. REVIEWER'S CONCLUSIONS: A large number of studies appear to address the research questions, but few are of sufficient quality to be reliable. Available evidence does suggest these substances are better than placebo at alleviating depression. Further studies are needed to evaluate the efficacy and safety of 5-HTP and tryptophan before their widespread use can be recommended. The possible association between these substances and the potentially fatal Eosinophilia-Myalgia Syndrome has not been elucidated. Because alternative antidepressants exist which have been proven to be effective and safe the clinical usefulness of 5-HTP and tryptophan is limited at present.
Fortschr Med 1998 Nov 20;116(32):40-2
[Treatment of depression and sleep disorders. Significance of serotonin and L-tryptophan in pathophysiology and therapy]
[Article in German]
Riemann D, Vorderholzer U.
Abteilung fur Psychiatrie und Psychotherapie, Universitat Freiburg.
Since the nineteen-sixties, L-tryptophan has been used to treat depression and sleep-disorders. It appears to be suitable for the the treatment of mild forms of depression and of special forms, such as depressive mood associated with the climacteric. In a subgroup of patients, L-tryptophan can help re-establish a physiological sleep pattern in patients with chronic sleep problems. In the case of dependence on hypnotics, L-tryptophan can ease withdrawal symptoms. Recently published studies have shown that acute L-tryptophan depletion can lead to impairment of sleep continuity, and, in patients with an appropriate predisposition, to brief reversible depressive moods. In 1989, oral preparations of L-tryptophan were reported to precipitate the eosinophilia-myalgia syndrome (EMS). However, the real culprit proved to be contaminations of the basic substance of L-tryptophan which are no longer present in measurable amounts in the preparations now available on the market. Today, improved purification and analytic methods ensure the harmlessness of L-tryptophan preparations. In comparison with synthetic antidepressants and hypnotics, L-tryptophan is characterized by a particular low level of side-effects.
J Rheumatol Suppl 1996 Oct;46:81-8; discussion 89-91
Comment on:
J Rheumatol Suppl. 1996 Oct;46:44-58; discussion 58-9.
J Rheumatol Suppl. 1996 Oct;46:60-72.Tryptophan produced by Showa Denko and epidemic eosinophilia-myalgia syndrome.
Kilbourne EM, Philen RM, Kamb ML, Falk H.
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, US Department of Health and Human Services, Atlanta, Georgia 30333, USA.
Evidence from an array of scientific studies strongly supports the conclusion that ingestion of products containing L-tryptophan (LT) produced by Showa Denko KK caused the 1989 epidemic of eosinophilia-myalgia syndrome (EMS) in the United State. In case-control studies of EMS, LT exposure was essentially universal among cases but rare among controls. Of 6 manufacturers of LT, only LT manufactured by Showa Denko KK was clearly associated with illness. The data meet other Hill criteria for inferring a causal relationship. Consistent findings were found in multiple independently conducted studies. There was a dose-response effect, with risk of illness increasing as a function of the amount of tryptophan consumed. The extremely small p values observed in the multiple independently conducted studies effectively rule out the possibility that the tryptophan-EMS association was the result of chance. Moreover, no potential confounding factor or bias explains the association. The incidence of EMS in the United States diminished abruptly once LT containing products were recalled.
Autoimmunity 1996;25(1):33-45
EBT, a tryptophan contaminant associated with eosinophilia myalgia syndrome, is incorporated into proteins during translation as an amino acid analog.
Buss WC, Stepanek J, Bankhurst AD, Mayeno AN, Pastuszyn A, Peabody D.
Department of Pharmacology, University of New Mexico School of Medicine, Albuquerque 87131, USA.
The tryptophan dimer 1,1'-ethylidenebis[L-tryptophan] was identified as a contaminant of tryptophan preparations associated with Eosinophilia-Myalgia Syndrome. In this paper, we describe experiments examining the hypothesis that 1,1'-ethylidenebis[L-tryptophan] acts as an amino acid analog replacing L-tryptophan during the synthesis of proteins. We propose further that proteins containing 1,1'-ethylidenebis[L-tryptophan] are rejected in an autoimmune process identified clinically as Eosinophilia-Myalgia Syndrome. Rabbit reticulocyte lysates containing an estimated 1 microM L-tryptophan were used to assay the ability of 1,1'-ethylidenebis[L-tryptophan] to compete with 3H-L-tryptophan for incorporation into proteins translated from BMV RNA. 1,1'-Ethylidenebis[L-tryptophan] in concentrations of 40, 80 and 110 microM reduced lysate 3H-L-tryptophan incorporation to 81%, 76% and 75% of control incorporation obtained in the absence of 1,1'-ethylidenebis[L-tryptophan]. In the presence of 20 microM L-tryptophan, 110 microM 1,1'-ethylidenebis[L-tryptophan] reduced 3H-L-tryptophan incorporation to 56% of control incorporation. In contrast, ethyl-L-tryptophan did not significantly reduce 3H-L-tryptophan incorporation. In the presence of 110 microM 1,1'-ethylidenebis[L-tryptophan] and 20 microM L-tryptophan, 3H-L-leucine incorporation was not significantly reduced compared to incorporation in the absence of 1,1'-ethylidenebis[L-tryptophan], demonstrating that proteins were translated to full length during elongation. These findings suggest that 1,1'-ethylidenebis[L-tryptophan], but not ethyl-L-tryptophan, reduced 3H-L-tryptophan incorporation into proteins by substituting for L-tryptophan rather than by causing premature termination or significant slowing of nascent protein chains.
Posted by stjames on May 22, 2003, at 17:08:44
In reply to Re: L-Tryptophan HEALTH WARNINGS, posted by ncfelines on May 22, 2003, at 13:25:07
. I am sorry that you find my trying to help to be "inflamatory" STJAMES!
Posting a very isolated incident for some years ago as a "HEALTH WARNINGS" in caps seems to really blow all of this out of proportion.
In other words, inflamitory.
Posted by Caleb462 on May 23, 2003, at 6:07:00
In reply to Re: L-Tryptophan HEALTH WARNINGS, posted by stjames on May 22, 2003, at 17:08:44
> . I am sorry that you find my trying to help to be "inflamatory" STJAMES!
>
> Posting a very isolated incident for some years ago as a "HEALTH WARNINGS" in caps seems to really blow all of this out of proportion.
> In other words, inflamitory.
>Well... a bit over the top, sure. But the guy was merely trying to help, even if he was a bit misguided. I think he took your post as a bit of an attack that was uncalled for? I dunno... I just got tired of being a nice guy though... sadhfsldahj!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!klfsdjGHEYA!!!!!!! DFj
Posted by ncfelines on May 23, 2003, at 8:29:30
In reply to Re: L-Tryptophan HEALTH WARNINGS, posted by Caleb462 on May 23, 2003, at 6:07:00
Actually, I am female. ;) And after I read many other posts by STJAMES on this board, I can see this "style" coming through in most of them. So, it is not an isolated thing. Bless your heart, STJAMES. I know you are doing the best you can, but most people don't respond well to snide comments. Maybe writing in that way makes you feel better about yourself, or maybe after 20 years of ADs, you are still dealing with being negative. I have a lot of sympathy and wish you well. However, I come here to share information and support, not to deal with bad attitudes. Regardless of our states of mind, we need to take responsibility for our words and actions here, and the consequences for people who come here vulnerable, looking for help. None of us need extra stress from our fellow posters. So, forgive me if I do not read or respond to your posts in the future. :)
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2003, at 8:44:33
In reply to L-Tryptophan HEALTH WARNINGS, posted by ncfelines on May 20, 2003, at 13:21:44
While I'm on my opinionated bandwagon here, I thought I'd mention my thoughts about similar criticisms of 5-HTP.
I have seen a number of reports (possibly using the same primary reference) that indicate that something similar to the toxic peak-X contaminant has also been found in 5-HTP products. This is nothing short of propaganda, at the least, and distortion to the point of falsehood, at the worst.
What is reported is that a chromatographic separation has been done, and a compound with the same retention time as the toxic peak-X (that supposedly causes EMS) has also been found in commercial 5-HTP products. So what?
Chromatography separates the components of a mixture based on differential solubility in two different media, one stationary, and the other flowing. The measured characteristic is the time it takes for a chemical to leave in the flowing phase. All kinds of vastly different substances can have the same retention time. That is not an identification process (without highly selective preparatory and standardizing steps for known chemicals, but that's another matter).
For at least the last 15 years, it has been commonplace to therefore combine a chemical identification step with the chromatography equipment. One such combination is GC-MS, for gas chromatograph (with) mass spectrometer. The mass spectrometer permits the absolute determination of the structure (with a little brain work), but even that part is now generally computerized (reducing the chance of error). In other words, the true chemical identity of a particular substance is easily determined. The supposedly offensive substance is never identified in those reports.
5-HTP is extracted with solvents from an African plant, Griffonia simplicifolia. It would be virtually inconceivable to me that other compounds were not also simultaneously extracted. Those other extractives would then show up in any chromatography performed on the extract. Just to put it in perspective, St. John's wort extract contains close to 200 different substances that have been characterized. When you make stuffing for poultry, and add your classic parsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme, you are adding *thousands* of chemicals to the bread crumbs.
There are some people who are fear-mongers. Whatever their motives may be, they are not behaving with total honesty. I need more information before I reach any conclusions, be they good or bad.
Lar
P.S. I am not suggesting that 5-HTP is perfectly safe. There have been case reports of EMS linked to 5-HTP, but it has not been made clear whether the 5-HTP was synthesized (possibly from contaminated l-tryptophan, or by a process which forms other by-products), or extracted from Griffonia. EMS does occur spontaneously, i.e. in people not exposed to l-tryptophan or 5-HTP, so there are obviously some unanswered questions about what is going on.
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 23, 2003, at 9:26:08
In reply to STJAMES - POOR ATTITUDE, posted by ncfelines on May 23, 2003, at 8:29:30
> Posting a very isolated incident for some years ago as a "HEALTH WARNINGS" in caps seems to really blow all of this out of proportion.
> In other words, inflamitory.
>
> stjamesIt would've been fine just to say it was an isolated incident from some years ago, without calling it inflammatory...
> most people don't respond well to snide comments. Maybe writing in that way makes you feel better about yourself, or maybe after 20 years of ADs, you are still dealing with being negative.... So, forgive me if I do not read or respond to your posts in the future. :)
>
> ncfelinesAnd it isn't necessary to call comments snide, or, if you're not going to read or respond to someone's posts, to announce that. Thanks,
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies, and complaints about posts, should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration; otherwise, they may be deleted.
Posted by ncfelines on May 23, 2003, at 10:41:14
In reply to Re: About 5-HTP, posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2003, at 8:44:33
It is very difficult to find the "truth" out there between the one extreme who loves a certain supplement or drug, and the other extreme who is convinced it will kill you! I posted the information to be helpful. I feel protective of us, because I know most of us are vulnerable and are faced with many difficult decisions and a sea of facts and opinions. I am trying to find my way, and find posts like your very helpful.
Posted by ncfelines on May 23, 2003, at 10:43:23
In reply to Re: please be civil » stjames » ncfelines, posted by Dr. Bob on May 23, 2003, at 9:26:08
Posted by stjames on May 23, 2003, at 10:45:36
In reply to Re: About 5-HTP, posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2003, at 8:44:33
Just for fun I will mention the well known conspiracy theory on the 5-HTP scare.
Combind 5-HTP with another common substance
and you get DMT. However you do get a quantary (sp?) salt which is not of use as an illicit
drug. It is intersting that the cases of illness assoc with 5-HTP were in Santa Fe, and Los Alamos National Labs, just 50 miles away, was at the time advising the gov. on common precursors that could be used to make drugs. As the theory goes,
this was an attempt to discredit 5-HTP.As the sory goes, we almost lost many common herbs, as many can be made into XTP, speed, ect.
Sasafrass, cloves, ect.
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2003, at 11:16:56
In reply to THANKS, LAR, posted by ncfelines on May 23, 2003, at 10:41:14
> It is very difficult to find the "truth" out there between the one extreme who loves a certain supplement or drug, and the other extreme who is convinced it will kill you! I posted the information to be helpful. I feel protective of us, because I know most of us are vulnerable and are faced with many difficult decisions and a sea of facts and opinions. I am trying to find my way, and find posts like your very helpful.
I'm glad that you find my postings helpful, but remember, I'm biased too.
I personally believe that there is more hype in the pharmaceutical industry than in the alternative/supplement industry. Certainly, the latter group has its bad apples, as well. Particularly when I come across the common notion summed up by "all natural = perfectly safe", I want to scream. Poison hemlock is all natural, ya know?
What really gets under my skin is the failure of our North American governments to enact and enforce regulatory controls on supplements. It could be done very easily. The Germans did it many years ago.
It may well be a cynical position to take, but I have concluded that it is the pharmaceutical lobby groups that have blocked such a process. By blocking regulation of supplements, and encouraging massive publicity around fraud and contamination of supplements, public trust is eroded. People then turn to pharmaceutical interventions. Follow the money.
When I think of but one of the multitude of adverse effects associated with pharmaceutical antidepressants, sexual dysfunction, I am aghast. The massive success of Viagra clearly demonstrates the importance of sexuality in people's lives. Yet, sexual dysfunction as a side-effect is trivialized.
I have yet to find a psychotropic medication that both works, and that I can tolerate. I have, however, found mood stability over a reasonably long term, by means of supplements, often at doses much higher than the same doctors pushing those other substances would recommend. I have to wonder whose assumptions are not in accord with reality.
Best wishes,
Lar
Posted by Squiggles on May 23, 2003, at 12:20:02
In reply to Re: THANKS, LAR, posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2003, at 11:16:56
I find your choice of words offensive
and your rhetoric, third class. Doctors
are not pimps or drug dealers on the street
corner, "pushing" meds, so that they can
count the cash with a leer in their face.A little respect might do you good and
provide clearer thinking.Squiggles
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2003, at 12:44:21
In reply to Re: THANKS, LAR » Larry Hoover, posted by Squiggles on May 23, 2003, at 12:20:02
> I find your choice of words offensive
> and your rhetoric, third class. Doctors
> are not pimps or drug dealers on the street
> corner, "pushing" meds, so that they can
> count the cash with a leer in their face.
>
> A little respect might do you good and
> provide clearer thinking.
>
> SquigglesI think you read far more into the use of a single word than anything I intended.
push, v.t.
to urge the use ofNot once have I ever had a nutritional approach suggested to me by any medical professional. I cannot count the times I have been "urged to use" psychotropic or other pharmaceutical medications.
Lar
Posted by Squiggles on May 23, 2003, at 13:11:04
In reply to Re: THANKS, LAR » Squiggles, posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2003, at 12:44:21
Nah, I think I got nuance right;
(Oxford Dictionary): push, v.
1. to exert force upon (a thing) so as to move it away from oneself or
from the source of the force; [it] push one's way,
go forward by pushing.2. to thrust or cause to thrust outwards.
3. to extend by effort, [it] the frontier was
pushed forth north.4. to make a vigorous effort in order to succeed
or to surpass others.5. to press ( a person ) to do something, to put
strain on the abilities or tolerance of, [it] don't
push him for payment.6. to urge the use or adoption of (goods, ideas, etc.)
e.g. by advertisement; [italic mine] PUSH DRUGS,
sell them illegally.
Anyway you look at it, it does not mean"prescribe", which is what doctors do and the word
they use:OD: prescribe, v. 1. to advise the use of
(a [it mine] MEDICINE, etc.) 2. to lay down as
a course or rule to be followed.______________
See the dif? :-)Squiggles
A.bd.
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2003, at 13:27:59
In reply to Re: THANKS, LAR » Larry Hoover, posted by Squiggles on May 23, 2003, at 13:11:04
I told you how I meant the word to be interpreted. We are not debating the semantics of an uninvolved third party. The slang usage of the word did not even occur to me.
Believe what you will. I told you what I meant.
Lar
Posted by Squiggles on May 23, 2003, at 13:37:27
In reply to Re: THANKS, LAR » Squiggles, posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2003, at 13:27:59
Words are sometimes revealing of
our beliefs; but I accept what you
say as you mean it.Squiggles
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2003, at 14:07:11
In reply to Re: THANKS, LAR » Larry Hoover, posted by Squiggles on May 23, 2003, at 13:37:27
> Words are sometimes revealing of
> our beliefs; but I accept what you
> say as you mean it.
>
> SquigglesFine.
Just for the record, there *have* been elements of coercion, on more than one occasion, with respect to my relationship(s) with psychiatrists, vis a vis psychotropics. In my personal experience, some of the other meanings of that word *do* have relevance. However, my original posting was not intended to suggest that, in the general circumstance.
Perhaps, as you suggest, there were subconscious tones to my semantics. However, in my state of mind as I wrote those words, "urge the use of" was all that I intended.
Lar
Posted by Squiggles on May 23, 2003, at 15:03:11
In reply to Re: THANKS, LAR » Squiggles, posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2003, at 14:07:11
I have never been coerced; perhaps encouraged
when my Klonopin dose was reaching tolerance
after some 10 yrs. Strangely, enough, I wish
I were coerced. The freedom I have to study
medicine, pharmacology and neuropsychiatry is
not something I relish.I had an easier time with recreational drugs
in the 60s, as we then had "heads" to guide us
and the joint smoking (at least for me) was
limited to a party toke or two -- now the "real"
drugs are taken for life with little guidance.Thank God for the Net.
Squiggles
Posted by medlib on May 23, 2003, at 19:44:07
In reply to Re: THANKS, LAR » Larry Hoover, posted by Squiggles on May 23, 2003, at 12:20:02
From medlib, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob--
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
> I find your choice of words offensive
> and your rhetoric, third class. Doctors
> are not pimps or drug dealers on the street
> corner, "pushing" meds, so that they can
> count the cash with a leer in their face.
....
Disagreements about issues are fine; but, negative judgements about other posters are not considered civil.
> A little respect might do you good and
> provide clearer thinking.
...
Respect for other posters is the primary consideration of Dr. Bob's guidelines for civility. For more information, please see
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civilFollowups about posting policies and complaints about posts should be directed to Psychobabble Administration.
medlib
Posted by McPac on May 23, 2003, at 20:22:36
In reply to Re: THANKS, LAR » Larry Hoover, posted by Squiggles on May 23, 2003, at 12:20:02
"Doctors
are not pimps or drug dealers on the street
corner, "pushing" meds"They're not?
Posted by Squiggles on May 23, 2003, at 20:23:17
In reply to Please be civil » Squiggles, posted by medlib on May 23, 2003, at 19:44:07
My judgement was not negative about
the poster, but the post. Nevertheless,
I apologize for taking offense.Squiggles
Posted by McPac on May 23, 2003, at 20:24:06
In reply to Re: THANKS, LAR » Squiggles, posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2003, at 12:44:21
"Not once have I ever had a nutritional approach suggested to me by any medical professional. I cannot count the times I have been "urged to use" psychotropic or other pharmaceutical medications".
EXACTLY!
Posted by Squiggles on May 23, 2003, at 20:24:35
In reply to Re: THANKS, LAR, posted by McPac on May 23, 2003, at 20:22:36
I dare not take this one on after just
receiving medlib's note on respect.Squiggles
Posted by medlib on May 24, 2003, at 6:26:43
In reply to Re: THANKS, LAR » McPac, posted by Squiggles on May 23, 2003, at 20:24:35
>I dare not take this one on after just
> receiving medlib's note on respect.
>
> Squiggles
...Thanks for your forbearance! It's appreciated. <alt.text for happy emoticon>---medlib
Posted by Seattle on April 24, 2009, at 16:45:34
In reply to Re: L-Tryptophan HEALTH WARNINGS, posted by Chris O on May 22, 2003, at 10:55:04
> Larry:
>
> I'm no expert on amino acid supplementation, but I did have a scary experience with l-typtophan this year. I bought it from a company called Lidtke, who, I guess, is selling it illegally on some health food store shelves. Of course, on their website they have lots of marketing info about how their l-tryp is "pure and uncontaminated", etc. Well, a day after I took 1,000mg of the Lidtke l-tryp, I had strange muscle spasms in my arms, legs, and calves. These lasted for about a week. I have never felt anything like this in my life. I went to see a doctor because I knew these symptoms mimicked those of EMS. He was young, did not appear conservative to me, and seemed to know a good deal about EMS. He informed me that there is too much unknown about taking individual amino acid supplements and that it was not only people who took the genetically-modified Japanese version of l-tryp in 1989 who got EMS. I guess people who have gotten those symptoms off other single amino acid supplements too. Bottom line for me is that I would love to take something l-tryp if it was well studied, validated, "safe", but despite my distaste for the pharmaceutical industry and the conventional medical industry, I don't think l-tryp is a viable alternative to meds yet. I wish it was.Hi Chris,
I am sorry to hear about your experience with the Lidtke L-Tryptophan, but I have been faithfully using their brand for many years now and have only experienced the opposite. I have had great results. Results that have saved my life by limiting my night terrors and anxiety. Back when tryptophan had an import alert and it was not supposed to be sold as a dietary supplement, Lidtke was not selling it as a dietary supplement. They were selling ONLY the BIOS brand for Veternarian use. When the ban was lifted, that is when they started selling it again for consumers. Now, with quality, Lidkte is the ONLY brand that runs a chromatography test for 90 minutes, rather than 30 minutes. Most of the impurities show after the 30 minutes and the Lidtke brand is 100% Free of EBT, so I don't know how you can say that. Anyhow, I hope you will re-consider the Lidtke brand, because it is the only one I can use and feel safe with.
This is the end of the thread.
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