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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by freedom2001 on April 28, 2003, at 23:03:13
COCKTAIL TREATMENT OF CHRONIC OCD update 29/4/03
Posted by freedom2001 on April 21, 2003, at 0:16:29
I have OCD since 14 and am now 28. I've lost much of my youth due to this devastating illness. After years of research, trials and errors on various drugs, here is my current cocktail to fight OCD.....Hope to share with you guys and ladies here who are all suffering from OCD. God bless and may there be a better understanding of OCD and better treatment for it soon....
Take a nutritional supplement of
1 calcium (800mg), (calcium carbonate, NO calcium gluconate)
2 magnesium (300-400mg) (magnesium hydroxide or magnesium oxide - NO magnesium
aspartate, taurate or gluconate pls)
3 zinc 10mg
4 vitamin D
5 vitamin C (time released 2000mg buffered C - the total time release is about 16 hours if taken in the morning and evening) Try not to take fresh orange juice as it contains folic acid and too little vitamin C (50mg only).
6 High Concentration Omega 3 fish oil (4000 mg EPA+DHA) - the weight is NOT the capsules, but the EPA+DHADo not take the fish oils AT THE SAME TIME with calcium, magnesium and zinc. They will interfere with the mineral absorption.
Not sure about taking fish oils at the same time with SSRIs. If you are unsure, take them at separate times.
7 AVOID FOLIC ACID (one of the B vitamins), COPPER and CHOLINE supplements! They make your OCD worse.
AVOID CAFFEINE, COCOA (eg. chocolate, ice cream), SOFT DRINKS AND JUNK FOODS SUCH AS FAST FOOD! But I guess it's pretty okay to take fast food, pepsi or ice cream once in a while if you thirst for them. Just don't take lots of pizza/burgers/fried chicken in the afternoon and a huge load of ice cream and coke at night. Otherwise, you may wake up next morning with "OCD Shock".
All these help in alleviating the symptoms of OCD, sometimes significantly. And they are all natural.
EXERCISE THERAPY
Exercise, but don't engage in competitive sports as they boost your dopamine and NE levels. Engage in relaxing sports such as walking, swimming, running, stretching.MUSIC THERAPY
Listen to soft relaxing music as this boosts your serotonin levels also.HOBBY THERAPY
Don't play exciting games like roller coaster, video games as these increase your dopamine and NE levels significantly. OCD patients have high levels of dopamine and NE levels. So there is a need to reduce these levels. Engage in relaxing hobbies instead.Good time management is important as well. Don't attempt too many tasks at one time.
But remember to take your prozac, augment it with 1.5 mg clonazepam as well. I'm taking on average 90mg prozac (80 mg does not really help). This means I take 80 mg on tue and thurs while I take 100 mg on mon, wed, fri etc. Prozac is the most activating SSRI. But it's powerful and it works for most people. Clonazepam is a benzo med that calms you down and it has some effects on the serotogenic system as well besides acting on our GABA system, unlike other benzos (valium, diazepam, alprazolam etc). Don't worry too much about addiction and dependence as long as the dosage is low (eg. 1-2mg). People have been taking low dosages for years without problems. GABA, NE, DA and Nutritional defects (in addition to Serotonin) may be implicated in OCD. So both deserves more research. And there are strong evidence of at least 1 bad gene being involved in OCD. So gene therapy may be the best way to go.
For sleep, trazodone (50mg) is an excellent choice. It can knock you out peacefully into sleep in 1-2 hours time. Take it 1 hr before sleep. It is also a mild anti depressant itself. Trazodone will make you sleep throughout the night peacefully even if the cat is meowing loudly or the dog is barking loudly! Trazodone blocks the 5HT-2 receptors, which is related to sleep.
There are unconfirmed reports of prozac+trazodone reducing OCD symptoms. The metabolite of trazodone worsens OCD. So NEVER take trazodone as your only drug therapy for OCD.....
It's okay to take trazodone alone at night and counter it in the morning with a prozac. Taking trazodone is to induce peaceful sleep, as benzos eg. diazepam, valium, should be taken with caution. Don't abuse the benzos.There are some people who go up to 120mg Prozac but be careful as different people have different bodies. A child with OCD SHOULD NOT BE ON 100MG prozac as there is a case in which a child died from it after 6 months. Besides 100mg prozac, he's taking 3 other meds as well. So if 80mg does not work for you adults, try out 90 mg by alternating the days. If side effects are too severe, STOP immediately. For myself, I can tolerate 90 mg of prozac daily.
If you do not wish to take 90mg of Prozac, you can take sodium valproate an anti-convulsant. It increases your blood levels of Prozac and increases GABA too.
VERY IMPORTANT: get PLENTY of SLEEP and REST. LACK OF SLEEP WORSENS OCD VERY SIGNIFICANTLY.
"Drug augmentation with SSRIs section (Courtesy of Ace)
1. Pindolol
2. Clonidine,
3. Bromocriptine
4. BusPar
5. Klonopin
6. Zyprexa
7. Risperidone."
8. Gabapentin?
9. Dilantin?
10. Sodium Valproate (Depatoke)So far, lab studies have only shown that klonopin (clonazepam) and the anti-psychotics (Zyprexa and Risperidone) looks more promising. But other augmentation may benefit you as different people respond differently.
Try out clonazepam 1.5mg with your SSRI if your SSRI alone does not work.
Don't worry about what your doc says if he refuses to give you clonazepam. There are other docs who will agree that LOW doses of clonazepam can be taken for years without bad effects. As long as we don't abuse the benzo clonazepam, we should be pretty safe.OCD needs a 'cocktail' of meds and supplements to fight against it.
Regards.
Freedom.God Save Us All! Pls help to pray for me, all OCD patients and other patients with illnesses that we will get back our life.
Update 20-21 April 2003:
I'm now on daily
90-100 mg prozac (anti-OCD)
1.5 mg clonazepam (augmentation drug)
2000 mg time release buffered vitamin C
800 mg calcium carbonate
300 mg magnesium oxide
10 mg zinc
Vitamin D
50 mg trazodone (sleep)
On the 20th Apr 2003, I did not take any fish oils at all, but instead doubled my vitamin C and calcium/magnesium/zinc supplements.
Today 21st Apr 2003, I will take 2000mg fish oil, instead of 4000mg fish oil, as I suspect the doubled dose calcium/mag/zinc/vitamin C helps more than the fish oils.
Posted by Caleb462 on April 29, 2003, at 3:20:13
In reply to COCKTAIL TREATMENT OF CHRONIC OCD update 29/4/03, posted by freedom2001 on April 28, 2003, at 23:03:13
> HOBBY THERAPY
> Don't play exciting games like roller coaster, video games as these increase your dopamine and NE levels significantly. OCD patients have high levels of dopamine and NE levels. So there is a need to reduce these levels. Engage in relaxing hobbies instead.
Don't have fun??? Sorry but that is ridiculous, horrible advice. Also, there is no evidence that OCD patients have "high levels of dopamine and NE".
Posted by ace on April 29, 2003, at 3:27:06
In reply to Re: COCKTAIL TREATMENT OF CHRONIC OCD update 29/4/03, posted by Caleb462 on April 29, 2003, at 3:20:13
Posted by Caleb462 on April 29, 2003, at 3:34:22
In reply to Caleb- ther IS evidence of high levels of DA + NE (nm) » Caleb462, posted by ace on April 29, 2003, at 3:27:06
Ace... could you show me some links?
I know there may be some evidence of high dopamine/high NE activity... but not neccesarilly "levels". Also... like all mental problems, I think OCD is much more complex than simple neurotransmitter dysfunction. I mean... I suffer OCD/ADD/GAD/Depression, with anhedonia being a big part of my depression. So let's say OCD is related to high dopamine activity... but then ADD and anhedonia are related to low dopamine activity.. yet I suffer from all of it. It's just too simplified of an explanation.
Posted by McPac on April 29, 2003, at 19:05:46
In reply to COCKTAIL TREATMENT OF CHRONIC OCD update 29/4/03, posted by freedom2001 on April 28, 2003, at 23:03:13
Don't waste your money on magnesium oxide! Take a much better form (like glycinate).
Posted by freedom2001 on April 29, 2003, at 22:26:11
In reply to Re: COCKTAIL TREATMENT OF CHRONIC OCD update 29/4/03, posted by Caleb462 on April 29, 2003, at 3:20:13
>
>
>
> > HOBBY THERAPY
> > Don't play exciting games like roller coaster, video games as these increase your dopamine and NE levels significantly. OCD patients have high levels of dopamine and NE levels. So there is a need to reduce these levels. Engage in relaxing hobbies instead.
>
>
> Don't have fun??? Sorry but that is ridiculous, horrible advice.I had been playing video games and had experienced significant OCD symptoms that caused me to go through hell. I don't think this advice is horrible and ridiculous. If you want to play video games but suffer the consequences of severe OCD symptoms, no one can stop you. You are entitled to your opinion. But this is my advice to OCD sufferers based on my experience.
The more competitive and addictive game we play, the more mess up our brain becomes and OC symptoms will worsen.
Also, there is no evidence that OCD patients have "high levels of dopamine and NE".Research have shown that people in LOVE (obessed with the opposite partner) have high levels of dopamine. This is in consistent with OCD.
Do a thorough search for high dopamine levels and the relation to OCD through all search engines. You will find it.Regards,
Freedom.
>
>
>
Posted by freedom2001 on April 29, 2003, at 22:32:47
In reply to Re: Caleb- ther IS evidence of high levels of DA + NE, posted by Caleb462 on April 29, 2003, at 3:34:22
> Ace... could you show me some links?
>
> I know there may be some evidence of high dopamine/high NE activity... but not neccesarilly "levels". Also... like all mental problems, I think OCD is much more complex than simple neurotransmitter dysfunction. I mean... I suffer OCD/ADD/GAD/Depression, with anhedonia being a big part of my depression. So let's say OCD is related to high dopamine activity... but then ADD and anhedonia are related to low dopamine activity.. yet I suffer from all of it. It's just too simplified of an explanation.I know low serotonin and high DA levels are over simplified versions of analysing OCD.
It is possible that for a sub-type of people, they have LOW DA levels and yet exhibit OCD traits.
I believe that the following deserves much more research and better drugs will be invented to fight OCD.
1. serotonin receptors
5HT-1A
5HT-1B
5HT-1C
5HT-1D
5HT-2
5HT-3
5HT-42.dopamine levels
3. NE levels
4. GABA system
5. Mutated genes
6. Nutritional deficiency
Regards,
Freedom.
Posted by Caleb462 on April 30, 2003, at 0:12:25
In reply to Re: COCKTAIL TREATMENT OF CHRONIC OCD update 29/4/03 » Caleb462, posted by freedom2001 on April 29, 2003, at 22:26:11
> >
> >
> >
> > > HOBBY THERAPY
> > > Don't play exciting games like roller coaster, video games as these increase your dopamine and NE levels significantly. OCD patients have high levels of dopamine and NE levels. So there is a need to reduce these levels. Engage in relaxing hobbies instead.
> >
> >
> > Don't have fun??? Sorry but that is ridiculous, horrible advice.
>
> I had been playing video games and had experienced significant OCD symptoms that caused me to go through hell. I don't think this advice is horrible and ridiculous. If you want to play video games but suffer the consequences of severe OCD symptoms, no one can stop you. You are entitled to your opinion. But this is my advice to OCD sufferers based on my experience.
> The more competitive and addictive game we play, the more mess up our brain becomes and OC symptoms will worsen.Hi, sorry if my post came off as rude. Personally, I don't believe it would be a good general rule for people with OCD to stay away from things they enjoy. I have OCD... and video games actually help me. They tend to make my compulsions more obvious... but when I'm wrapped up in a video game, or in the exhiliration of a roller coaster, obsessive thoughts are pushed out of my head. This is just me of course.
Posted by Caleb462 on April 30, 2003, at 0:29:58
In reply to Re: Caleb- ther IS evidence of high levels of DA + NE » Caleb462, posted by freedom2001 on April 29, 2003, at 22:32:47
Just curious, have you heard about the ongoing project studying the effect of psilocybin (the active constitute of psychedellic mushrooms) on OCD patients?
I can't wait to hear the outcome on this one.
Posted by ace on April 30, 2003, at 0:36:32
In reply to Freedom, posted by Caleb462 on April 30, 2003, at 0:29:58
Posted by Snoozy on April 30, 2003, at 0:49:30
In reply to Freedom, posted by Caleb462 on April 30, 2003, at 0:29:58
Wow, that's very interesting. Do you know any more about it? I'm wondering if they're trying it on any certain OCD behaviors or just OCD in general.
> Just curious, have you heard about the ongoing project studying the effect of psilocybin (the active constitute of psychedellic mushrooms) on OCD patients?
>
> I can't wait to hear the outcome on this one.
Posted by Caleb462 on April 30, 2003, at 1:44:10
In reply to Re: Freedom » Caleb462, posted by Snoozy on April 30, 2003, at 0:49:30
> Wow, that's very interesting. Do you know any more about it? I'm wondering if they're trying it on any certain OCD behaviors or just OCD in general.
Here, check this out:http://maps.org/research/psilo/azproto.html
Oh, and ace... actually... I have high hopes for it. The ancedotal reports seem strong... but it's not just that. 5-HT2a/5-HT2c blockers... like say, Risperdal or Zyprexa, are known to worsen or even induce OCD and OCD symptoms when not combined with an SRI. Psilocybin is a 5-HT2a/5-HT2c agonist, so there seems to be some sturdy pharmacological ground.
Posted by freedom2001 on April 30, 2003, at 2:45:27
In reply to Freedom, posted by Caleb462 on April 30, 2003, at 0:29:58
> Just curious, have you heard about the ongoing project studying the effect of psilocybin (the active constitute of psychedellic mushrooms) on OCD patients?
>
> I can't wait to hear the outcome on this one.Yes, I've heard of it. It seems that they need a lot of funding and volunteers for a really large scale study.
I hope there will be positive reports coming very soon.
I can't remember where I read about this project.
Is there any way to track the progress of this project?
Thanks.
Posted by freedom2001 on April 30, 2003, at 2:47:35
In reply to Do you think it will amount to much? (nm) » Caleb462, posted by ace on April 30, 2003, at 0:36:32
what do you mean by the sentence "Do you think it will amount to much?"
Regards,
Freedom.
Posted by Questionmark on April 30, 2003, at 21:57:20
In reply to Freedom, posted by Caleb462 on April 30, 2003, at 0:29:58
i wish i could get a hold of some freaking shrooms around here!! Why are they illegal?!
This is the end of the thread.
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