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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Dr. Bob on April 4, 2003, at 19:38:39
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated » japonica, posted by luckyspec on April 4, 2003, at 19:29:28
> Has anyone every read "The Yeast Connection"?
> American Odessey- Book edited by Mary Higgins Boyd.
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by luckyspec on April 4, 2003, at 19:59:37
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated luckyspec, posted by hageshe on April 4, 2003, at 19:03:55
Quite an interesting thought process have you.
I know much of what you speak. Understand that I am not asking you to stop taking a 'necessary evil'. I know that it is necessary. Otherwise you would not need it, would you?
I am asking you to open your minds. To learn about other potential methods of treatment. Other ways of dealing with problems. Deal with them yes.
I am learning that in the industrialized countries the spread of cancer and such disease is higher then in non industrialized countries. But I could be wrong in that.. I understand that you heard drug companies lobbied or you think they might, or could in order to prevent an actual cure. Correct you are in that.
If you have watched Problem Solvers ...it is a news channel program. I think channel 4. They have done an entire hour on the Pharmeceutical Industry. One interesting fact they have pointed out was that a company has 10 years of patent rights on a drug which no other company can sell for that duration. You would think that after 10 years the generic brands can start to sell drugs, and you would be fooling yourself because something else happens.
What usually happens after 10 years; the drug gets changed a tiny bit..instead of it being normal, now it is time released or has a different use ie. Asperin is now a 'Daily Therapy' for heart patients(it is used to thin blood). This allows the company to extend the patent by another 10 years. Sad but true. This is but one practice that the Pharmaceutical industry has perfected.
You are right, there is little you can do as an individual. Or is there. That is another paradox. One man has changed the world I recall...One man has changed the country also...It takes but one.
I am just asking you to open your mind and see the truth instead of hiding behind false hope, that one day you will be ok. That day is today. I believe in all of you, that you can do well.
But I am no one.
Posted by luckyspec on April 4, 2003, at 20:01:44
In reply to Re: please be civil » japonica, posted by Dr. Bob on April 4, 2003, at 19:34:59
Sometimes I'm wondering if Dr. Bob is a list of generic replies...
Posted by luckyspec on April 4, 2003, at 20:08:37
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated » hageshe, posted by Lou Pilder on April 4, 2003, at 18:16:05
The lawsuit alleges that the manufacturer, GlaxoSmithKline, has deliberately failed to warn doctors and patients that Paxil/Seroxat can cause severe withdrawal reactions. It says that the company has wrongly claimed the bad reactions are caused by a relapse into depression when people stop the drug, yet some people experience symptoms when they stop taking the drug which they did not have before they first took it.
Interesting...very.
Thank you for your information.Sincerely,
Luckyspec
Posted by luckyspec on April 4, 2003, at 20:11:08
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated » hageshe, posted by Lou Pilder on April 4, 2003, at 18:16:05
With SSRIs that linger in the system for longer, by the time the symptoms appear it may seem that depression has set in again - and so the doctor's answer is another SSRI prescription.
_____
I am curious at the word used in this paragraph...'seem'.
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 4, 2003, at 20:35:02
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated » Lou Pilder, posted by luckyspec on April 4, 2003, at 20:11:08
uckyspeck,
I think that the passage that you refer to here, is importing that the doctors make a [hasty genralization] by conluding that the withdrawal is depression and not withdrawal and hence, the doctor creates a cycle of more psychotropic drugs by issuing another drug, hence creating even a bigger problem to the suffering paitiant. How do you see it?
Lou
Posted by luckyspec on April 4, 2003, at 21:25:14
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated » luckyspec, posted by Lou Pilder on April 4, 2003, at 20:35:02
> uckyspeck,
> I think that the passage that you refer to here, is importing that the doctors make a [hasty genralization] by conluding that the withdrawal is depression and not withdrawal and hence, the doctor creates a cycle of more psychotropic drugs by issuing another drug, hence creating even a bigger problem to the suffering paitiant. How do you see it?
> Lou
>Lou,
I am talking about a problem with drugs. In the article it shows that we had drugs that were highly addictive and then the drug companies changed the form of addiction.-GlaxoSmithKline insists there is no problem with its drug. "There is absolutely no reliable scientific evidence that Paxil is addictive or leads to dependence," said a spokesman.
He added: "As far as we're concerned, all of the regulatory bodies are quite happy with the product."
But Social Audit, which has monitored antidepressant drugs for decades, sees history repeating itself. Morphine was used for years to treat opium addiction. Barbiturates, found to be horribly addictive, were replaced by the benzodiazepines - such as Librium, Valium and Mogadon - which were liberally prescribed as safer and non-addictive. Then came Ativan, which like Paxil/Seroxat had a short half-life, and the symptoms of benzodiazepine dependence became clear.
The SSRIs have largely taken their place, but according to Mr Medawar, little has changed.
http://society.guardian.co.uk/mentalhealth/story/0,8150,547606,00.html
As you can plainly see from reading this...there is nothing wrong with addiction. No it simply does not exist in the 'scientific evidence' realm. And the withdrawls you feel are simply your depression kicking in again. How nice, that must mean that if I were a smoker then stopped cold turkey, I must have depression, because I felt like shit by not smoking something.
Along finer lines we have an article from the same website that reads as follows:
Princess Diana was right: counselling is good for you. After it was satirised for years as the touchy-feely sharing of pain, a major medical investigation has confirmed therapy works.
In a £500,000 project, patients receiving treatment for depression and anxiety were closely monitored. After four months, therapy had reduced their depressive symptoms 'to a significantly greater extent' than GP care, which usually involves anti-depressant drugs.
__________________http://society.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,7838,406218,00.html
Sincerely,
Luckyspec
Posted by jtc on April 4, 2003, at 21:57:02
In reply to Re: please be civil » jtc, posted by Dr. Bob on April 4, 2003, at 0:17:21
> > you are the "sick litte man".
>
> Please be sensitive to the feelings of others and don't post anything that could lead them to feel accused or put down, thanks.
>
> Bob
I am sorry for the comments. jtc
Posted by jtc on April 4, 2003, at 22:27:55
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated luckyspec » luckyspec, posted by Napaba on April 4, 2003, at 9:22:14
Hi Napaba,
I am so sorry for you when I read your story and am sorry you had to go through that. You do not need a reason to be depressed. That is what my psychiatrist has always told me, I have seen him off and on for about 6 years. It is okay to feel depressed, and besides with your history I can certainly see why you have depression. I too have depression and anxiety and panic disorder. I have been of Effexor XR 75 mg for one week now. I am feeling okay but very irritable and tired, tearful, angry and I have two girls ages 8 and 3 soon to be 9 and 4 years old. I don't know if it was the right time for me to go off Effexor. I still take Klonopin, .25 mg at night. I am making an appointment with my psychiatrist to talk about all of these problems and see what he thinks I should do. Every couple of years I will go off medication and do okay until I can't take anymore and then I go on something again. I really hate myself for yelling at my girls and just being a "bit**" to them. They do not deserve this at all. My girls see me cry every day and they are scared and sad because I am sad and crying. Sometimes I get so upset that I think about driving my car into a tree with my girls in it but then I think God tells me "What would that solve?" I am angry at my husband because he does not help me very much and he does not make me feel about good about myself anymore. We have been married for about 17 years. He says he is not going to "baby" me anymore. I am sorry but I didn't know that emotionally supporting me was the same as babying me. I think my problems are really with him and I sometimes take out my frustrations towards him on my kids. I just don't know how I am going to do off of medication because I really don't have his support in anything. My parents were divorced when I was almost four years old and I guess I am determined to make my marriage work for my children's sake because I don't want them to grow up with no father, like I did. I also still blame my father for not caring enough to be there when I was growing up but I am trying to get over that and on with life. It is hard though. I think I will always have depression to some extent. People say that we can overcome our past and make our future better, well I haven't been able to put the past behind me yet and I am 38 years old now. Anyway enough rambling on my part. Thanks for listening. I am thankful for this board and all of the support and advice I receive from it. Thanks so much and may God Bless everyone. jtc
Luckyspec, If you don't personnally suffer from depression and anxiety, why don't you just monitor the site and see what those who do suffer from depression and anxiety have to say.
>
> I've had a problem with depression as long as I can remember. Your childhood sounds good to me. If all I had to do was fight with my sister, be belittled and listen to my parents fight I probably wouldn't be on medication either. Your list is just the beginning of mine. I was raped, got pregnant, had a baby, put it up for adoption, but wasn't ever allowed to talk about any of it. This all happened 23 years ago and I still regret not keeping the baby, who just turned 23 March 23rd. I know where he is and I send him birthday cards, but I never hear from him.
>
> When I first went to the doctor, I told him I just felt horrible there had to be something wrong with me. I cried all the time, was always tired, slept whenever I could, yelled at my children, was anxious about everything and depressed no matter what. I had thought about suicide, but decided I didn't want my EX raising my children. The final straw was when I thought about driving off a bridge with my kids.
>
> After I started taking meds, my mother tried to make me feel that I was stupid for taking them, and had no reason to be depressed. My church told me I wasn't praying enough. Thank God my doctor was a christian and helped me to see things differently. The way I look at it, is God sent me to a doctor to get the medical help I needed.
>
> I have no reason to be depressed. I have a great husband, three wonderful children, a job I love, a beautiful home in a peacefull community. I still cry and feel sorrow, but I don't cry because the grass needs to be cut, I'm late for church, etc. I still cry when I hear a sad song on the radio, or I hear about the soldiers who have given their lives in Iraq. When it's Christmas and birthdays I feel joy and I can laugh, where before I couldn't.
>
> Every couple of years I decide I don't need to be on medication anymore and stop taking it. I can usually go a year without it and then I have to go back on it.
>
> My family is most important to me. If my taking a pill each day makes their lives better then it's worth it.
>
> I hope my story helps you better understand depression, it's not a choice.
>
>
> I obviously do miss the point.
> > I am only trying to learn about depression more deeply. This is why I am going to do research on history of depression to find out where the root of depression started.
> >
> > I have heard that depression is caused by the inability to deal with one's own problems. Perhaps this is true. If it is not so I know even less about depression.
> >
> > I leave you all to your state, and I trully can not help you. You are outside my circle of influence. I am only trying to help someone close to me with their depression. I am really very sorry if I have caused you any pain at all and will not try to influence you.
> >
> > I also know depression is not about happiness or sadness. The Tao is simply an example. Perhaps you can read some taoism. It really helped me once. As to my family..they are the ones that caused me to be more depressed. I was always yelled at by my mother, and my father didn't really care to help me with anything when I was younger. My parents constantly fought and I fought with my sister. I did have a great family right DeeDee? Am I lucky...?
> > Things have changed since then. My parents divorced and I live with a roommate and out of my mothers house. She is depressed also, but misses yelling at me. Yet I love her and I want to help her. She does not take drugs, but she is different then you perhaps she doesn't have as many problems as you.
> >
> > I am also trying to help a friend of mine who is on Effexor. That is why I am here. Not to influence you. It was my mistake to even try. I simply want to deeply understand depression. But I believe that it will be impossible unless I am depressed as you. I can't make myself depressed. That is what I heard.
> >
> > Also the chemical imbalance is caused by having soo many problems that one can not deal with. I am dealing with mine, and can not begin to stop dealing with them, so I more likely will not be depressed ever as I want to be. I do get sad at times. It is normal. But I will never understand your depression as you do. I only wish to help those I care about, without them having to hurt their mind, body, and spirit.
> >
> > Really, I am sorry you have to go through life carrying such a burden. I can not help you. I have learned that much, that I can only help those who allow me to help. I allow myself to help myself.
> >
> > I am sick also, I do not know what it is, but I have something in my throat that has been there for 3 years or so. I guess it is psychosomatic. So I am dealing with it. But I will not take a drug that will make me lose my sex function or make me tired or hurt my bones. That is just speaking for myself. I am not just talking about Effexor. I do not need it. I could take something like Advil to stop some of the feeling in my throat. But I will find a way. I know that our emotions are stored in muscles and I know that there is some problem that I have not brought to the surface. I will.
> >
> > But I am not going to tell you what to do. Please do not listen to me. Only discover the true problems of your life, and begin to deal with one at a time. Until that happens you do need the drugs...unfortunately. I just wonder how people treated depression when there was no drug industry...That is a great question.
>
>
Posted by Paco on April 4, 2003, at 22:59:04
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated luckyspec, posted by jtc on April 4, 2003, at 22:27:55
Hang in there. Give it a few weeks. Most docs say it takes 4-6 weeks to reach full effect. It might not be for you, but give it time to find out for sure. Glad to hear your seeing psychiatrist. I sort of look at antidepressants as a tool to make life tolerable while I go through therapy.
Good luck!
Paco
====================================================
> Hi Napaba,
> I am so sorry for you when I read your story and am sorry you had to go through that. You do not need a reason to be depressed. That is what my psychiatrist has always told me, I have seen him off and on for about 6 years. It is okay to feel depressed, and besides with your history I can certainly see why you have depression. I too have depression and anxiety and panic disorder. I have been of Effexor XR 75 mg for one week now. I am feeling okay but very irritable and tired, tearful, angry and I have two girls ages 8 and 3 soon to be 9 and 4 years old. I don't know if it was the right time for me to go off Effexor. I still take Klonopin, .25 mg at night. I am making an appointment with my psychiatrist to talk about all of these problems and see what he thinks I should do.
Posted by toohighstrung on April 4, 2003, at 23:34:24
In reply to Re: Goofy or Anyone how do you know the mg in EFXR, posted by jerz on April 16, 2001, at 23:11:28
I have been on effexor for two months now and I also love this drug. I don't sleep great, but I sleep better than I used to - and the shadow hanging over me has lifted. For those of you trying to quit SSRI's, I found a link that I hope will be helpful. It contains advise on how to quit. Here is the link:
http://www.prozactruth.com/
Posted by meds on April 5, 2003, at 0:56:52
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
I have just started this medication...is it normal for the heart to race? I recently quit Serzone, it wasn't working anymore. I kept getting the brain shocks, like my brain was really being shocked or something. plus i still felt depressed. anyone have any input for me?
Posted by DeeDee46 on April 5, 2003, at 6:26:38
In reply to new user, posted by meds on April 5, 2003, at 0:56:52
I too had the heart racing but I encourage you to let the doctor know and get any test done that will ease your mind. Just weed though the symptoms and ask questions until you are satisified.
I have been there and after a good over all check up and educated myself and weighed the optios, I chose to stay of Effexor and I am so glad I did.
One more thing, if I have to take a "drug" for the rest of my life and never be able to get off of it.. So be it. If someone wants to say, But it is addictive, its ok too. I didnt choose this for myself and do not put myself in a catergory with drug addicts that go into a back alley and take care of their addiction. This is treatment for a serious disorder under a doctors care. I will be ok. The sun shines much brighter after the storm.
Trust God.
Take care.
DeeDee46
Posted by meds on April 5, 2003, at 9:37:27
In reply to Re: new user, posted by DeeDee46 on April 5, 2003, at 6:26:38
I am on my 3rd day of Effexor and I woke up feeling better. I have had an anxious feeling in my stomach but that seems to be calming down. I also take lorazipam for anxiety and have had to use it because of the anxiety recently. It has taken me a year to use an RX of the lorazipam. So I don't use it that often. I just wondered if I would be able to stop taking the Lorazipam altogether if I am taking the Effexor.
Thank you for your info.
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 5, 2003, at 9:42:30
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by jtc on April 4, 2003, at 21:57:02
Posted by meds on April 5, 2003, at 9:52:00
In reply to Re: new user, posted by DeeDee46 on April 5, 2003, at 6:26:38
I was taking Serzone for about 2 years. I started getting the brain shocks and felt really low and tired all the time. I felt no joy in life. With the experience I have in anti-depressants I felt it wasn't working. I had never known what to call those brain shocks that you get until I read it on this board. I didn't know how to describe it to anyone. So thanks for the info!
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 5, 2003, at 9:57:15
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated luckyspec » hageshe, posted by luckyspec on April 4, 2003, at 19:59:37
> I am just asking you to open your mind and see the truth instead of hiding behind false hope, that one day you will be ok.
Please be sensitive to the feelings of others and don't jump to conclusions about them, post anything that could lead them to feel accused or put down. I've already asked you to be civil, so now I'm going to block you from posting for a week.
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies, and complaints about posts, should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Posted by DeeDee46 on April 5, 2003, at 11:42:25
In reply to Re: blocked for week » luckyspec, posted by Dr. Bob on April 5, 2003, at 9:57:15
I appreciate you blocking that for a week so we can all support one another.
I wanted to just relate my experience with anxiety and effexor in hopes to help. Before I started taking effexor, I had been taking xanax for years. It was the only thing that could control my anxiety. I tried everything on the market I think.
But, when I switched to the Efffexor XR, I was able to SLOWLY wean myself off of it. My doctor does keep me with a prescription for Clonazepam 0.5 mg and if I have trouble I take a half of that. It has worked for me really well and it is not as addicting as xanax and long term affects etc. And it is longer lasting. So, I hope that helps some.
I think the hardest part for people is to finally find a drug that works just for them. Be patient and try not to focus on all the side effects. I know I did that and almost became a hypocondriac. (another on and off again of depression). Well, not almost.. I DID... ha.
I am better now though.Take care.
DeeDee46
Posted by toohighstrung on April 5, 2003, at 13:10:37
In reply to new user, posted by meds on April 5, 2003, at 0:56:52
I had a lot of side effects the first 3 weeks (including extreem fatigue, some mood swings, etc...) All of the side affects were completely gone by the end of the first month. I am now nearing the end of my second month at 75 mg and I feel great. (I have GAD) Anyway, hang in there.
P.S. A funny thing: Before I was on this medication I used to have heart palpitations all the time (probably from anxiety). Now if I do I don't even notice. :-)
Posted by meds on April 5, 2003, at 14:34:50
In reply to Re: blocked for week, posted by DeeDee46 on April 5, 2003, at 11:42:25
To be honest I have read all the things posted on this site about bad effects of effexor and it has scared me. But, I believe in God so I have been praying alot. I just want to feel "normal" and enjoy life. Seems like so much to ask. I am going to give this medication about a month and if it doesnt help then I will see what else is there for me.
Posted by meds on April 5, 2003, at 14:40:22
In reply to Re: new user, posted by toohighstrung on April 5, 2003, at 13:10:37
I too had taken xanex and stopped taking it because i felt it no longer worked, even though i kept upping my dose. So on the advide of my physician i slowly weaned myself off of it over a period of a few months. That was very difficlut and I had side effects. The Lorazipam seems to work weel for me. i just takes the edge off. And I dont use it that often. Today is my 3rd day of the effexor and I feel kinda tired but I assume that will pass, hopefully. Thank you for your support, I appreciate it.
Posted by DeeDee46 on April 5, 2003, at 17:21:24
In reply to Re: new user, posted by meds on April 5, 2003, at 14:40:22
I can remember being so bad, that I just prayed out to God. Since I am a believer, I know that he heard me and sent me to the right doctor and gave me the medicine. I do believe that. It is a long story but its true.
I personally think you should give it more than a month, but you do what you feel is best for you. It took me longer but everyone is different.
And to the xanx? Your body gets used or addicted to the drug so you have to up it. It is good that you got off of that. If you can do that, you can do the effexor, It may just give you the quality of life that you so deserve. If you can get out and walk, try that, a thirty minute walk also ups those endorphins and over time it will make a difference.. but you may have to push yourself to do it for awhile.
Stay positive and when those negative thoughts come, replace them with something positive. Since I do not know you, I will tell you I replace with a verse from the Bible or turn the music on.. Not the sad stuff... Happy dancing moving kind of stuff.
It really helps..
Hang in there!!!
Posted by meds on April 5, 2003, at 18:24:17
In reply to Re: new user, posted by DeeDee46 on April 5, 2003, at 17:21:24
I appreciate the advice....
As far as the xanex, I kept upping the dose and it was making me worse. That is when I realized I had to get off it. My physician told me to just stop taking it, well, I knew that wasn't right. So I consulted another physician and he told me how to do it right. I have had depression all my life and have actively been doing something about the past several years. alot of trial and error with the meds. I have been thru several, they all work for a while then I have to switch. I am coming to the conclusion this is a rest of my life type of thing so I better get more informed and hook up with people who have been through it too. I feel depression attacks people in different forms, in different ways and severity. It often sneaks up on me and sometimes takes me awhile to realize that I am going through it. I have had many many good days, so I know it is possible. I am going to keep praying every chance I get and trudge on.
Posted by Rosemary on April 6, 2003, at 5:04:14
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
Had breast cancer and now taking Tamaxifen for treatment after chemotherapy. Besides now being menopausal from chemotherapy, the Tamoxifen was creating intolerable hot flashes for me. Effexor was recommended and have been taking for the last 8 months. It has been wonderful not to be blasted by those hot flashes, although it did not eliminate completely. Just made them easier to live with. Accidently forgot my daily dose of 75mg ( 37.5 mg twice a day) the last few days and have been expierencing wierd withdrawl symptoms, they are the brain shivers and lightheadedness that others talk about. Effexor has been a big help for the hot flashes especially now that I realize that without it my hot flashes have come back with a vengence. Is anyone else taking Effexor for hot flashes? Would love to hear from you?
Posted by Jack Smith on April 6, 2003, at 14:01:21
In reply to anyone taking effexor for hot flashes?, posted by Rosemary on April 6, 2003, at 5:04:14
I have been on it for two weeks--just went up to 150 and have been experincing a lot of tiredness, does this go away???
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