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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 29. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 14, 2003, at 22:57:37
[Posted by leeann on March 14, 2003, at 17:26:21]
> I have been diagonesed with major depression and have been prescribed a cocktail of medication consisiting of Effexor,Remeron,Ritalin, and Risperdol, All though I no longer feel suicidal I, my mental agility, memory and coordination are much less then what I consider "normal" for me I am still complaining of the same issues after 5 month. I find myself searching for words quite a lot and unable to remember things long term and short term, DOES this go away, has anyone ever had these side effects or has anyone takin this medication combo. I feel like going on what the doc once described as a medication vacation, and quitting all my med to see if things will even out. Any advice is appreciated thanks:)
Posted by Eggy on March 14, 2003, at 23:15:32
In reply to Has Anyone Had Side Effects Like These?? « leeann, posted by Dr. Bob on March 14, 2003, at 22:57:37
Leeann, I am not on the same mixture of meds as you but, yes I have those side effects. I don't know if the meds make us so calm and relaxed that our minds don't remember everything or if it is something else. My daughter was packing to stay all night with a friend earlier. I told her "Don't forget to pack your couch" I meant her toothbrush. It has become a funny around here.As I have 3 young kids who think I'm playing. It is very irritating and sometimes scary. I mainly forget what things are called. Simple things like detergent or shampoo. I told my therapist I had alzheimers! I don't really know much about the meds your on. I have been on Remeron and Risperdol but I don't remember the specific side-effects. I change meds too frequently to remember them all. But hang in there It's only been 5 months sometimes it takes longer for your body to adjust. Good luck and don't forget to pack your couch!
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 15, 2003, at 21:17:22
In reply to Has Anyone Had Side Effects Like These?? « leeann, posted by Dr. Bob on March 14, 2003, at 22:57:37
leeann,
You wrote,[...any advise is appreciated...] and [...does this go away...quitting meds to see if things will even out...].
There are different points of view regarding psychotropic drugs and some aspects of psychiatry. Below are two links that explore the validity or non-validity of the use of psychotropic drugs and some aspects of psychiatry. I do not agree with evrything in these links and I am not advocating anyone to discontinue their psychotropic drugs without their treating doctor's approval and monitoring of the discontinuaion. The folowing links are for evryone to read and ,possibly, contribut to a discussion here that could be of educational value for leeann has asked for [...any advise is appreciated and ...does this go away...and...quitting meds...]
http://www.antipsychiatry.org/drugs.htm
http://3rddimension.online.fr/psychiatry_hoax.htm
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2003, at 15:28:41
In reply to Has Anyone Had Side Effects Like These?? « leeann, posted by Dr. Bob on March 14, 2003, at 22:57:37
leeann,
Below are some additional links concering the management of bipolar disorder and others, without taking psychotropic drugs. I do not agree with evrything in the articles, nor am I advocating that you, or anyone else, discontinue their psychotropic drug(s) without their approval of their treating doctor and the monitoring of the discontinuation by their doctor.
Lou
http://www.schizoaffective.org/bpwithoutdrugs.htm
http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/article.htm
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2003, at 15:36:34
In reply to Alternatives to psychotropic drugs-2, posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2003, at 15:28:41
leeann,
The second link should be:
http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/article
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2003, at 15:41:14
In reply to Correction- Alternatives to psychotropic drugs-2, posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2003, at 15:36:34
Posted by jumpy on March 16, 2003, at 17:44:58
In reply to Has Anyone Had Side Effects Like These?? « leeann, posted by Dr. Bob on March 14, 2003, at 22:57:37
> [Posted by leeann on March 14, 2003, at 17:26:21]
>
> > I have been diagonesed with major depression and have been prescribed a cocktail of medication consisiting of Effexor,Remeron,Ritalin, and Risperdol, All though I no longer feel suicidal I, my mental agility, memory and coordination are much less then what I consider "normal" for me I am still complaining of the same issues after 5 month. I find myself searching for words quite a lot and unable to remember things long term and short term, DOES this go away, has anyone ever had these side effects or has anyone takin this medication combo. I feel like going on what the doc once described as a medication vacation, and quitting all my med to see if things will even out. Any advice is appreciated thanks:)
>
>Yes, I have these side effects. It is almost as if these drugs just "short circuit" the entire brain so we don't feel the pain of depression anymore. Unforunately, they also destroy our memory, sex drive, flatten out the emotions, cause sedation, etc.
As someone else here has said in the past, today's modern psychopharmacology is NOT specific or selectively attacking our illnesses. They are like slegdehammers, hitting and knocking into submission the whole brain.
Jumpy
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2003, at 19:30:19
In reply to Has Anyone Had Side Effects Like These?? « leeann, posted by Dr. Bob on March 14, 2003, at 22:57:37
leeann,
Below is alink to a discussion group concering the [psychiatric thoery of chemical imbalance]. The link is for your consideration as to your post asking for[... any advise, and ...quitting all meds...]. I am not advocating that anyone discontinue their psychotropic drugs without the approval of their trating doctor and the monitoring of the discontinuation.
Lou
http://www.nanpanet.net/~moiraj/wwwboard/messages/2132.html
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2003, at 19:33:14
In reply to Alternative POV of the theory of chemical imbalanc, posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2003, at 19:30:19
leeann,
http://wwwnapanet.net/~moiraj/wwwboard/messages/2132.html
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2003, at 19:35:44
In reply to correction to link , posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2003, at 19:33:14
leeann,
http://www.napanet.net/~moiraj/wwwboard/messages/2132.html
Lou
Posted by leeann on March 16, 2003, at 21:22:45
In reply to correction to the correction to link , posted by Lou Pilder on March 16, 2003, at 19:35:44
Lou thank you for all the sites and also for the corrections. I found them very interesting, and also quite alarming. It seems to me that the most nuerotoxic psychiatric medications seem to be the neuroleptics(risperdol)for me. With permission of my docter I would like to discontinue the use, if granted permission, it will be interesting to evaluate the difference with and without the medication. The websites contained information that imply that the effects can be permanent. I will stay optomisitic and only hope that this will not be the case in my situation. I appreciate the information thank you
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 17, 2003, at 7:23:20
In reply to Re: correction to the correction to link , posted by leeann on March 16, 2003, at 21:22:45
leeann,
You wrote,[...the most neurotoxic is Risperdol...will discontinue its use with permission of my doctor..].
You also listed that you were taking Ritalin, Effexor, and Remeron and that,[...Risperdol is the most neurotoxic...].
There is a large body of infomation concerning the adverse effects and what happens to one that discontinues these drugs, a lot of this infomation being on this board .
If you would like for me to give you links to sites that have infomation about the other drugs that you are taking, I could do that at your request, and then you could make a more informed decision as to whether to discontinue all of the drugs that you are taking, and not just Risperdol.
Lou
Posted by leeann on March 17, 2003, at 15:09:06
In reply to Lou's reply to leeann's post » leeann, posted by Lou Pilder on March 17, 2003, at 7:23:20
Thank you Lou for your continued response , I would appreciate any information you can lead me to. I am especially interested in the adverse effects of discontinuing medication and how long they last.
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 17, 2003, at 15:25:09
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to leeann's post, posted by leeann on March 17, 2003, at 15:09:06
leeann,
You wrote,[...am interested in adverse effects of discontinueing psychotropic drugs and how long do they last...].
I am glad that you are taking the steps to consider discontinueing the psychotropic drugs. I believe that if one prepares themselves, like you are doing, that the discontinuation of the drugs could be accomplished with, perhaps, less chance to relapse and reinstituteing the drug, because I feel that one is more determined to complete the discontinuation when they have a well-thought-out plan in place to begin the discontinuation verses those that have no plan at all, but no plan at all except to quit, is also a plan in and of itself. But there is a body of knowlege concerning your situation that could be of benifit to those wanting to discontinue psychotropic drugs.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 17, 2003, at 15:37:36
In reply to Lou's reply to leeann's post-1B » leeann, posted by Lou Pilder on March 17, 2003, at 15:25:09
leeann,
You wrote,[...how long do the adverse effects last?...].
The first effects if discontinuation are, in general, possible to be very frightining and possibly horrific to those that are not preparred to understand the mechinisms at work durring discontinuation. So it is a good thing that you want to be prepared for your knowlege ahead of time could be benifitial to you to recognise that the first adverse effects , in general, are not permanant. Thses first effects, in general, last about two weeks with the first wek being the worst. So if we look at discontinuation as reaching different milestones, this, IMO, is a great help. Then you can deal with the next milestone.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 17, 2003, at 15:55:20
In reply to Lou's reply to leeann's post-2B, posted by Lou Pilder on March 17, 2003, at 15:37:36
leeann,
The next aspect of the discontinuation road is to make a choice at the beginning of your journey. When you start, there are two different roads that you have a choice to follow. One road's thought says that your systems are in a toxic state from the psychotropic drugs and that the tocicity from the drugs must be dissipated immediatly in order to stop any further harm to your systems from the drugs and, possibly, have your systems restored to what they were before the drugs entered your systems. That means complete cessation of the drugs will be the road that one would follow. This is how I percieved the situation when I was prescribed psychotropic drugs and so I looked at it as if a house was on fire, I was not going to throw any more fuel on it, for I believed that if I did , then the toxicity would continue and possibly get worse. So I chose the road that some people call [cold turkey]. The other road is to lookat the situationas gradually decending , decreasing the drug in some pattern so that you reach zero amount of the drug. This sound [sweet in theory], but could it be [sour in practice?]. There is also a way to cross over from one road to the other and some psychotropic drugs are advised to use the gradual method of discontinuation.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 17, 2003, at 16:38:29
In reply to Lou's reply to leeann's post-3B-the 2 roads » Lou Pilder, posted by Lou Pilder on March 17, 2003, at 15:55:20
leeann,
You wrote, [...what are the adverse effects...]?
First, these effects may not show themselves right away. They may appear days or even weeks later after you have discontinued the psychotropic drug. But to recognise them when they do appear is to be forwarned.
Sleep is upset durring the discontinuation of many psychotropic drugs. Insomnia is not uncommon durring discontinuation. In my case, I did not sleep for many days beyond a briefe time, but after a week, sleep got progressivly better. This is good to understand ahead of time, for one can accept it ,IMO, better with knowlege ahead of time.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 17, 2003, at 17:40:07
In reply to Lou's reply to leeann's post-4B-the 2 roads, posted by Lou Pilder on March 17, 2003, at 16:38:29
leeann,
You wrote,[...what are the effects...?].
When you go on the road that leads to freedom from psychotropic drugs, you carry baggage. The baggage is proportioanal to the amount and over what time the drugs have been taken. But the baggage can be discarded, hear a little, there a little, untill the weight is bearable. Each day, the baggage will be lighter.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 17, 2003, at 20:02:23
In reply to Lou's reply to leeann's post-5B-the baggage, posted by Lou Pilder on March 17, 2003, at 17:40:07
leeann,
On the road to freedom from psychotropic drugs, you will need help. You will be alone on the road, but there will be others on the side of the road, walking with you, but not on the road. These people are your helpers to keep you going. They are your close friends, spouse, etc. But you will also need your doctor that administered the drugs to you to monitor your progress.
I did not use any people to help me in my discontinueing the psychotropic drugs, but I am the exception in this case, which means that since I did not use any other people, then there is the potential for others to discontinue psychotropic drugs without others, also.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 17, 2003, at 20:28:13
In reply to Lou's reply to leeann's post-6B-the helpers, posted by Lou Pilder on March 17, 2003, at 20:02:23
leeann,
You wrote,[...what are the effects?...]
When you first start on the road to freedom from psychotropic drugs, in most cases that I know of, including my own, I encountered a state of horror. This state contains severe agitation, depression, dread, fellings of hopelessness, physical symptoms like nausea, sweating,anxiety, gloom and a feeling that [unless you overcome this state, you could not endure it]. This is the first milestone on the road to recovery. Here your body is reacting to the loss of the drugs in one way or another. The word "suffering" may have to be redefined here, but be of good cheer, for these effects will lessen each day.
I was never given Effexor, but I know of others that discontinued the drug and they said that the effects were of the severe nature like hallucinations and convulsions, not that you would have them, but you could. But recognising that before hand is good so that you know that it is an effect and not part of a conditio that may be permanant, unless that was part of your condition before you were prescribed the drug. There is the possibility that you will not experiance this situation, for I do not know how much and for how long you have taken the drug.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 18, 2003, at 7:34:27
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to leeann's post, posted by leeann on March 17, 2003, at 15:09:06
leeann,
You wrote,[...would appreciate infomation ...].
Below is a link to some cautiorry infomation before you attempt your discontinuation.
Lou
http://www.breggin.com/neuroleptics.html
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 18, 2003, at 8:00:00
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to leeann's post, posted by leeann on March 17, 2003, at 15:09:06
leeann,
You wrote,[...would appreciate infomation that you lead me to...].
Below is a link concerning Ritalin.
http://www.worldnewsstand.net/health/PSYCHIATRY.htm
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 18, 2003, at 9:49:43
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to leeann's post, posted by leeann on March 17, 2003, at 15:09:06
leeann,
Below is a link to a discussion about Remeron discontinuatiion.
http://www.dispace.com/message_boards/drugs/Remeron/_disc38/000009b9.htm
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 18, 2003, at 12:15:28
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to leeann's post, posted by leeann on March 17, 2003, at 15:09:06
leeann,
You wrote,[...I appreciate any infomation you could lead me to...].
Below is a link to withdrawing from psychotropic drugs.
http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/articles/quitting%20drugs.htm
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 18, 2003, at 20:14:23
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to leeann's post, posted by leeann on March 17, 2003, at 15:09:06
leeann,
On the road to freedom from psychtropic drugs, in general, the first milestone that you come to is the horrific condition you could find yourself in after a few days or weeks after cessation of the drug. In my reserch, and in my personal experiance, and in the people that I have known that withdrew from psychotropic drugs, many experiance suicide thoughts around the time of the horrific condition. Knowing this ahead of time is good, for the thoughts will pass away, for it is the cessation of the drug that can cause the thoughts and they will pass away.
At this place on the road to freedom from psychtropic drugs, you will need strengh to overcome the suicide thoughts. At this place on the road it will be evident that you have an enemy, a foe, and that you are at war with the foe that wants to destroy you. At this place you may feel that you are facing an army by yourself. You may feel forsaken by evryone, even God, if you a beleiver in God. You may feel that you have been framed by adversaries to be in this condition. You may ask how long you will be in this condition. There may be dispair and darkness. You may be in a state of fear. What must you do to be saved from this trouble?
I was in that condition. And when I was at that place on the road, I faced the enemy and said,
"The Lord is my light and salvation;
Whom shall I fear?
The Lord is the strengh of my life;
Of whom shall I be afraid?
When the wicked will come against me
To eat up my flesh,
My enenemies and foes,
They will stumble and fall.
Though an army shall encamp against me,
My heart shall not fear;
For in the time of trouble
The Lord shall hide me in His pavillion;
He shall set me high upon a rock.
And my head shall be lifted up
Above my enemies all around me;
And I will not be delivered to the will of my adversaries;
I will wait on the Lord
And be of good courage,
And He shall strengthen my heart;
Lou
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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