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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by White Stone on February 25, 2003, at 14:27:49
I have been on several antidepressants, most recently Effexor and Zoloft(prescribed by a GP). He was beginning to think I was treatment-resistant. When I started the Zoloft, I went hypomanic (?) for about 3 or 4 days. I wasn't familiar with that term at the time. Finally after I said something about the "chatter" in my head won't stop...and by this I mean 10,000 thoughts going different directions at once, he prescribed Zyprexa. I'm feeling a LOT better and my thinking seems pretty clear and I'm not as distracted.
I have heard that if antidepressants cause one to go manic, it is most likely because they were bipolar all along. Is this a true statement??????
Posted by Jaynee on February 25, 2003, at 17:22:47
In reply to Zyprexa for bipolar, posted by White Stone on February 25, 2003, at 14:27:49
The 10,000 thoughts going in different directions, has happened to me, but usually when I'm not on medication. The Celexa I am taking, seems to help that.
I took Trazadone once to try and sleep, that was interesting. It was only 25mg, so I thought I maybe didn't take enough to help with sleep, because I sure didn't get any sleep that night. I do know that it made the thoughts in my head run about 1,000 miles a second. Very weird. Needless to say I haven't tried Trazadone since.
I don't believe I'm bipolar just because Trazadone did that to me. I'm sure if I told a shrink about it, they would give me that diagnosis as well.
Personally I think Bipolar II, is thrown around to easily. I could be wrong though.
It will be interesting to hear from others.
Posted by judy1 on February 26, 2003, at 23:22:54
In reply to Zyprexa for bipolar, posted by White Stone on February 25, 2003, at 14:27:49
technically, med-induced hypomania is often referred to as bp3. it IS common for people with bipolar disorder to get manic on unopposed ADs, in my case Prozac landed me in the hospital with a manic episode. but that was after several documented manic episodes that occurred w/o the presence of ADs, and I got the bp1 label. Did you stop taking zoloft and still had symptoms? I just don't like the over-prescribing of APs (I see several threads here). hope you feel better- judy
Posted by lostsailor on February 26, 2003, at 23:29:15
In reply to Re: Zyprexa for bipolar, posted by Jaynee on February 25, 2003, at 17:22:47
zyprexa and all aytypical anti psychotics are now being used to treat bpd. usually they are the second linet though, as they have more side effects. if you need and anti pscho according to doc, I would ask for seriguil---i have used both in the past to sleep and seriquill when in manic phase and find it a more user friendly med
gl
~tony
Posted by White Stone on February 27, 2003, at 0:21:33
In reply to Re: Zyprexa for bipolar » White Stone, posted by judy1 on February 26, 2003, at 23:22:54
Thanks for the good thoughts, Judy. Yes, I am feeling better. In fact, I have felt better during the past couple of days (and more productive) than I have for a very long time. I am still trying to get used to the idea that I might possibly be bipolar.
I was painfully aware before that I seemed to have to work harder than most people to "keep it together," but I thought it was just because I was working too hard, or abuse issues in my childhood, or having multiple miscarriages, or any other number of ways I have "explained" away my depression, occasional temper flares, and moodiness. I also thought when I heard the term bipolar that it is when you switch between being incredibly happy and hugely depressed. I didn't realize that when I was spending my time on all night house cleaning binges, spending all my waking hours at work until exhaustion, being incredibly prone to outbursts (especially while driving), and compulsively shopping until I lost track of how many items I had bought online or at Ebay might also be indicators. After being on the Zyprexa for about a week, I am just coming down off my recent flurry (more like a high) of buying vintage sterling charms at Ebay. Anyway, I am rambling now.
I am just glad that some of the "chatter" in my brain is starting to quiet and I can think with a clearer head.
Posted by SLS on February 27, 2003, at 7:37:54
In reply to Re: Zyprexa for bipolar » White Stone, posted by judy1 on February 26, 2003, at 23:22:54
> technically, med-induced hypomania is often referred to as bp3. it IS common for people with bipolar disorder to get manic on unopposed ADs, in my case Prozac landed me in the hospital with a manic episode. but that was after several documented manic episodes that occurred w/o the presence of ADs, and I got the bp1 label. Did you stop taking zoloft and still had symptoms? I just don't like the over-prescribing of APs (I see several threads here). hope you feel better- judy
Hi Judy.Yes, I am BP III. This designation appeared as early as 1986. My only manic episodes, which were severe and psychotic, occurred only during drug treatment. I seem to be vulnerable to this when:
1. I add Parnate after pretreatment with a TCA.
2. Discontinue Nardil abruptly.
3. I discontinue a TCA abruptly while maintaining Nardil.It is no secret that some antipsychotics have the potential to induce mania in vulnerable individuals. Both Zyprexa and Geodon come to mind first, but I believe that Risperdal and Stelazine can do this as well. I look forward with great curiosity to see if Abilify has a greater or lesser rate of drug-induced mania than Zyprexa.
I became somewhat hypomanic when I added Zyprexa 10mg to Lamictal 300mg + Parnate 60mg + imipramine 300mg. Much to my dismay, it faded after a few days. I wouldn't have minded staying there. It is definitely a better place than where I am now.
- Scott
Posted by wingedcat on February 27, 2003, at 14:12:44
In reply to Zyprexa for bipolar, posted by White Stone on February 25, 2003, at 14:27:49
I just got prescribed a low dose of zyprexa for bipolar (type II or III) too. I also became manic on an SSRI. Lowering the amount of dopamine & serotonin seems like a horrible thing, but like you mentioned, there's THE BRAIN CHATTER that gets in the way. I had a diagnosis of ADD from that but I see now that it could be from bipolar. There is a website which mentions that a type of ADD is called "limbic" ADD, which is the chatter/distraction we describe caused by limbic system overactivity. I think that what Zyprexa does is chill out the dopamine & seratonin in your limbic system (emotional) without affecting the rest of your brain, for the most part. I'd find you the site but I have to be heading off to work now. I just started zyprexa last night and I feel very slow and sluggish right now. hopefully that will fade off somewhat. but my head definitely is quiet now, that is a nice thing.
Posted by judy1 on February 27, 2003, at 17:58:53
In reply to Re: Zyprexa for bipolar » judy1, posted by SLS on February 27, 2003, at 7:37:54
"I became somewhat hypomanic when I added Zyprexa 10mg to Lamictal 300mg + Parnate 60mg + imipramine
300mg. Much to my dismay, it faded after a few days. I wouldn't have minded staying there. It is definitely a better
place than where I am now."-you must have productive hypomanic episodes. I wreak too much havoc with my over-spending, sudden travelling, drug use, etc. I agree with the potential of risperdal to cause mania and I'm right there with you watching Ablify. I truly hope you get some relief Scott, I know it's been a long road. take care of yourself- judy
Posted by daytryppr on February 28, 2003, at 6:16:58
In reply to Zyprexa for bipolar, posted by White Stone on February 25, 2003, at 14:27:49
I had a way manic episode when the nurse practitioner at the university put me on zoloft and doubled it to 100 mgs within a week...chopped off all my hair and spent a week with no sleep and colored a lot....I had that noise too...where all those thoughts are going five thousand miles a second and you can't express them (makes it hard to sleep)...and made lots of phone calls to my sister at three in the morning...it got so bad my SISTER called the nurse and told her to take me off of the stuff and get me to someone who knew what they were doing....because I was headed down the road to loony-ville...and it wasn't where I needed to be when I was restarting school....they figured out finally that I'm a rapid cycler and are still trying to adjust everything but now I'm on wellbutrin, zyprexa and topamax...I forget to eat a lot....but I still get the noise...anyway...you aren't alone with the reaction to zoloft...
Posted by Tabitha on February 28, 2003, at 14:45:13
In reply to Zyprexa for bipolar, posted by White Stone on February 25, 2003, at 14:27:49
I have the same confusion about whether BPII is real or is antidepressant-induced. I don't think doctors actually know either. Calling you 'bipolar' as opposed to 'depressed' just means they'll give you extra meds on top of the antidepressants, so what difference does it make to them if you're really bipolar or it's just med induced? Same result, more meds.
My pet peeve is, when antidepressants make you hypomanic, why don't they try reducing the dosage instead of instantly adding more meds? Eventually you have no chance of knowing what is a real symptom and what is a side effect.
Posted by White Stone on March 1, 2003, at 4:06:18
In reply to Re: Zyprexa for bipolar » White Stone, posted by Tabitha on February 28, 2003, at 14:45:13
Hi Tabitha,
Thanks for your thoughts on the subject. I had posted a response earlier but it appears to have gone into hyper-space. I am certain that the really, really scary hypomania I had a couple of weeks ago now was caused by switching from Effexor to Zoloft and for some reason my doctor only prescribed what I later learned was only equivalent to 1/2 the level of Effexor. I think those things combined, i.e. withdrawal from Effexor coupled with a lower dose AD sprung me into that situation.I finally picked up a book on Bipolar to learn more about this disorder. I guess I had thought that it was simply someone who alternated between highs (happy) and lows (sad). But what I was reading today brought to mind several of the following personal characteristics:
* up all night cleaning the house
* buying way too much of anything and everything (I see to always buy the one I need and a spare)
* having periods at work when I will work 10-12 hours per day for days (actually weeks) on end only to end up in a slump period later due to exhaustion
* becoming incredibly irate in my car at stupid or inconsiderate drivers
* talking to my husband in so many different directions that he can't keep up.
* thinking so fast I can't verbalize everything quick enough or hand write things - luckily I am excellent at the keyboard
* having periods when I love to socialize followed by months on end of being reclusive.I guess because I am usually not bouncing off the walls in a "joyous" way like Tigger (from Winnie the Pooh) I didn't even consider bipolar might be a possibility. I have always struggled to "keep it together," much more than I see others do. It's like I didn't get the same handbook of life. But right now I am tired of keeping up pretenses, exhausted from fighting the dragon, and know that I must identify and resolve these issues or at least come to some acceptance of them. I really don't want to waste any more time either in pain or escaping from pain. But I'm rambling now...Anyway, I am trying to find someone who can perform a comprehensive assessment and I will go from there.
-Kristina
Posted by Tabitha on March 1, 2003, at 15:14:18
In reply to Re: Manic on AD's, posted by White Stone on March 1, 2003, at 4:06:18
The racing thoughts is a definite indicator. I always had so much in my head, and I just thought everyone did. It's very tiring trying to function, like having a tiger on a leash.
Posted by bozeman on March 3, 2003, at 22:53:32
In reply to Re: Manic on AD's, posted by White Stone on March 1, 2003, at 4:06:18
Wow . . . sounds like I need to get that book. What's it called?
Thanks,
bozeman
This is the end of the thread.
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