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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JohnX2 on May 8, 2002, at 21:13:52
Scott (SLS) on another thread mentioned that Nardil also inhibits
GABA transaminase.Does this mean that Nardil in anyway effects the
seizure threshold? Also, does this in any way imply
that Nardil is less likely to induce cycling for a bipolar
patient?Thanks,
John
Posted by Ritch on May 9, 2002, at 0:07:22
In reply to Nardil and Gaba, posted by JohnX2 on May 8, 2002, at 21:13:52
>
> Scott (SLS) on another thread mentioned that Nardil also inhibits
> GABA transaminase.
>
> Does this mean that Nardil in anyway effects the
> seizure threshold? Also, does this in any way imply
> that Nardil is less likely to induce cycling for a bipolar
> patient?
>
> Thanks,
> John
Great question John! I have never taken any MAOI's. Historically speaking, Nardil has had a very good track record with panic disorder and phobias as well as being an effective antidepressant. The idea you bring up makes me wonder if *many* BPII folks with comorbid anx. disorders might do OK with Nardil monotherapy (??).Mitch
Posted by Timidly on October 5, 2002, at 20:32:16
In reply to Re: Nardil and Gaba » JohnX2, posted by Ritch on May 9, 2002, at 0:07:22
> > Scott (SLS) on another thread mentioned that Nardil also inhibits
> > GABA transaminase.
> >
> > Does this mean that Nardil in anyway effects the
> > seizure threshold? Also, does this in any way imply
> > that Nardil is less likely to induce cycling for a bipolar
> > patient?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > John
>
> Great question John! I have never taken any MAOI's. Historically speaking, Nardil has had a very good track record with panic disorder and phobias as well as being an effective antidepressant. The idea you bring up makes me wonder if *many* BPII folks with comorbid anx. disorders might do OK with Nardil monotherapy (??).
>
> MitchTo add a data point I'll share my experience with
seizures while on Nardil. I've been taking Nardil
for 25+ years. About 3 years ago I started having
seizures. They started out quite severe by my
perception, the neurologist classified them as
'complex partial seizures'. They then gradually
diminished in severity over time. For the first
year or so I had clusters of 2-3 seizures in 3-5
days, recurring about every other month. Then they
gradually become more frequent, but less severe,
over 2 years leveling off at 2 to 3 seizures every
week. They stopped after about 3 years when I
switched from Ritalin to Metadate (a time released
form of Ritalin). Over that three year period
several full neurological, medical, and
psychiatric workups were done, along with blood
tests, CT scans, MRIs, EEGs, sleep studies, etc.
All the results were either "normal" or "with
findings consistent with my age". The conclusion
reached by the Neurologist, Internist, and
Psychiatrist was that I had a seizure disorder
resulting from severe head trauma (7 years ago)
aggravated by psychotropic medications which
lowered my seizure threshold.Seeing the Neurologist had the fringe benefit
of giving me the fancy medical term "myoclonic
seizure" to describe the "twitching" which
resulted from my 1982 ECT treatments.The following are the medications I was taking
during that time period.Nardil 120 mg/day
Ritalin 60 mg/day (seizures stopped when replaced by Metadate ER 60 mg/day)
Cytomel 12.5 mcg/day (recently discontinued)
Ambien 10 mg/day (recently replaced by Trazodone 150 mg/day)
Allegra 180 mg/day
Beconase AQ Nasal Spray Inhaler 0.042% (4*)/nostril/day---------------
Posted by Ritch on October 5, 2002, at 21:23:11
In reply to Re: Nardil and Gaba » Ritch, posted by Timidly on October 5, 2002, at 20:32:16
> Seeing the Neurologist had the fringe benefit
> of giving me the fancy medical term "myoclonic
> seizure" to describe the "twitching" which
> resulted from my 1982 ECT treatments.
>
> The following are the medications I was taking
> during that time period.
>
> Nardil 120 mg/day
> Ritalin 60 mg/day (seizures stopped when replaced by Metadate ER 60 mg/day)
> Cytomel 12.5 mcg/day (recently discontinued)
> Ambien 10 mg/day (recently replaced by Trazodone 150 mg/day)
> Allegra 180 mg/day
> Beconase AQ Nasal Spray Inhaler 0.042% (4*)/nostril/day
>
> ---------------
What is your "current" diagnosis and what meds are you taking nowadays?
Posted by Timidly on October 5, 2002, at 22:46:33
In reply to Re: Nardil and Gaba » Timidly, posted by Ritch on October 5, 2002, at 21:23:11
> What is your "current" diagnosis and what meds are you taking nowadays?
Current diagnoses:
- Chronic Recalcitrant Endogenous Major Depression
- Maladaptive Personality Disorder in remission with medication
- SubClinical HypoThyroidism
- Seizure Disorder in remission
- Essential Hypertension (controlled by Nardil)
- Chronic Allergies
- Note: My Cholesterol problems are also controlled by NardilCurrent AD meds:
Nardil 120 mg/day
Metadate ER 60 mg/day
Trazadone 150 mg/dayOver the last 25+ years I have tried almost all the
antidepressents and mood stabilizers available, and
Nardil is the only AD that has worked for me that is
still on the market. Meritol worked well for the
4 months I was on it before it was pulled off the
market. There was one suicide attempt in my late
teens which I barely survived (the organ donor
papers had already been prepared and signed).
I have not had any suicidal thoughts since being
saved in Christ in 1996. The Lord has blessed
me immensely and has made it possible for me to
continue working. It's been almost two years
since my doctor told me to prepare for permanent
disability.Partial list of medications which
do not work for me:
- Celexa
- Cylert
- Effexor XR
- Elavil
- Lithium
- Parnate
- Prozac
- Tofranil
- Vivactil
- WelbutrinSleep aids which
do not work for me:
- Ambien
- SonataAnti Anxiety meds no longer needed
after starting Nardil:
- Tranxene
- Trilafon
- ValiumA few treatments which did not work for me:
- Acupuncture
- Behavior Modification Therapy
- ECT
- Psychoanalysis
- Psychotherapy---------------
Posted by chad_3 on October 6, 2002, at 0:53:16
In reply to Re: Nardil and Gaba » Ritch, posted by Timidly on October 5, 2002, at 22:46:33
Hi Timid -
Well I'm here again today and saw this unbelievable articulate post. You sound like a Dr.! Much like "Mr. Cushing" who posted recently...
Please - if you are sincere in your post - will you please email me at:
Chad
http://www.socialfear.com/
and please leave me your phone number. I will call you personally.Your story - quite frankly sounds so remarkable - it hardly (to me) sounds plausible! : )
But I'm certain it is - and please let me speak personally as I believe with all of your knowledge that you could answer a few things I've wondered about that my "green" Dr's were either unwilling or unable to Gerner a guess on!Thanks!
Chad
http://www.socialfear.com/
ps please write with phone# - I've been so disappointed to find crank posts lately here that one more might throw me into a convulsion!> > What is your "current" diagnosis and what meds are you taking nowadays?
>
> Current diagnoses:
> - Chronic Recalcitrant Endogenous Major Depression
> - Maladaptive Personality Disorder in remission with medication
> - SubClinical HypoThyroidism
> - Seizure Disorder in remission
> - Essential Hypertension (controlled by Nardil)
> - Chronic Allergies
> - Note: My Cholesterol problems are also controlled by Nardil
>
> Current AD meds:
>
> Nardil 120 mg/day
> Metadate ER 60 mg/day
> Trazadone 150 mg/day
>
> Over the last 25+ years I have tried almost all the
> antidepressents and mood stabilizers available, and
> Nardil is the only AD that has worked for me that is
> still on the market. Meritol worked well for the
> 4 months I was on it before it was pulled off the
> market. There was one suicide attempt in my late
> teens which I barely survived (the organ donor
> papers had already been prepared and signed).
> I have not had any suicidal thoughts since being
> saved in Christ in 1996. The Lord has blessed
> me immensely and has made it possible for me to
> continue working. It's been almost two years
> since my doctor told me to prepare for permanent
> disability.
>
> Partial list of medications which
> do not work for me:
> - Celexa
> - Cylert
> - Effexor XR
> - Elavil
> - Lithium
> - Parnate
> - Prozac
> - Tofranil
> - Vivactil
> - Welbutrin
>
> Sleep aids which
> do not work for me:
> - Ambien
> - Sonata
>
> Anti Anxiety meds no longer needed
> after starting Nardil:
> - Tranxene
> - Trilafon
> - Valium
>
> A few treatments which did not work for me:
> - Acupuncture
> - Behavior Modification Therapy
> - ECT
> - Psychoanalysis
> - Psychotherapy
>
> ---------------
Posted by chad_3 on October 6, 2002, at 1:29:17
In reply to Re: Nardil and Gaba » Ritch, posted by Timidly on October 5, 2002, at 22:46:33
Mr. Timid -
Frankly - you are lucky to be alive it sounds like! There is a Dr. Gerner - whose former partner - well .... she had a patient who *died* due to overprescription of meds... true story and can search "robert gerner ucla lawsuit" to read about. Mr. Gerner is pictured on the stand - poker faced just as I viewed him in our personal sessions shortly after his zyprexa and rapid updosing of Nardil gave me chronic tardive movements .... well ... he did not actually *discuss* if with me afterword - but we did manage to discuss some things he was interested in ...
Anyway - check it out - it is there... he is kinda old and skinny - but a good Dr. Good lucking enough to get a trial of his own for sex with a patient also published on the Net!!!
Ps: I want to be sure this post relays important med info - and it will - Gerner told me on day 1 that Zyprexa is "good for tardive ANYTHING" - and so well - there you go ! If you trust this Gerner I suggest a consult! He has openings!
Chad
> > What is your "current" diagnosis and what meds are you taking nowadays?
>
> Current diagnoses:
> - Chronic Recalcitrant Endogenous Major Depression
> - Maladaptive Personality Disorder in remission with medication
> - SubClinical HypoThyroidism
> - Seizure Disorder in remission
> - Essential Hypertension (controlled by Nardil)
> - Chronic Allergies
> - Note: My Cholesterol problems are also controlled by Nardil
>
> Current AD meds:
>
> Nardil 120 mg/day
> Metadate ER 60 mg/day
> Trazadone 150 mg/day
>
> Over the last 25+ years I have tried almost all the
> antidepressents and mood stabilizers available, and
> Nardil is the only AD that has worked for me that is
> still on the market. Meritol worked well for the
> 4 months I was on it before it was pulled off the
> market. There was one suicide attempt in my late
> teens which I barely survived (the organ donor
> papers had already been prepared and signed).
> I have not had any suicidal thoughts since being
> saved in Christ in 1996. The Lord has blessed
> me immensely and has made it possible for me to
> continue working. It's been almost two years
> since my doctor told me to prepare for permanent
> disability.
>
> Partial list of medications which
> do not work for me:
> - Celexa
> - Cylert
> - Effexor XR
> - Elavil
> - Lithium
> - Parnate
> - Prozac
> - Tofranil
> - Vivactil
> - Welbutrin
>
> Sleep aids which
> do not work for me:
> - Ambien
> - Sonata
>
> Anti Anxiety meds no longer needed
> after starting Nardil:
> - Tranxene
> - Trilafon
> - Valium
>
> A few treatments which did not work for me:
> - Acupuncture
> - Behavior Modification Therapy
> - ECT
> - Psychoanalysis
> - Psychotherapy
>
> ---------------
Posted by Ritch on October 6, 2002, at 10:25:19
In reply to Re: Nardil and Gaba » Ritch, posted by Timidly on October 5, 2002, at 22:46:33
> Current diagnoses:
> - Chronic Recalcitrant Endogenous Major Depression
> - Maladaptive Personality Disorder in remission with medication
> - SubClinical HypoThyroidism
> - Seizure Disorder in remission
> - Essential Hypertension (controlled by Nardil)
> - Chronic Allergies
> - Note: My Cholesterol problems are also controlled by Nardil
>
> Current AD meds:
>
> Nardil 120 mg/day
> Metadate ER 60 mg/day
> Trazadone 150 mg/day
>
> Over the last 25+ years I have tried almost all the
> antidepressents and mood stabilizers available, and
> Nardil is the only AD that has worked for me that is
> still on the market. Meritol worked well for the
> 4 months I was on it before it was pulled off the
> market. There was one suicide attempt in my late
> teens which I barely survived (the organ donor
> papers had already been prepared and signed).
> I have not had any suicidal thoughts since being
> saved in Christ in 1996. The Lord has blessed
> me immensely and has made it possible for me to
> continue working. It's been almost two years
> since my doctor told me to prepare for permanent
> disability.I'm glad you are able to work and you feel reasonably functional. Just one question: Why did your doctors take you off the thyroid hormone, was it because of hypertension or insomnia?
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 6, 2002, at 12:11:12
In reply to Timid - Amazing May I speak with you personally?, posted by chad_3 on October 6, 2002, at 0:53:16
> I've been so disappointed to find crank posts lately here that one more might throw me into a convulsion!
You may not like what others post, but please be sensitive to their feelings and don't post anything that could lead them to feel accused or put down, thanks.
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies, and complaints about posts, should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration; otherwise, they may be deleted.
Posted by Timidly on October 6, 2002, at 20:17:22
In reply to Re: Nardil and Gaba » Timidly, posted by Ritch on October 6, 2002, at 10:25:19
> I'm glad you are able to work and you feel reasonably functional. Just one question: Why did your doctors take you off the thyroid hormone, was it because of hypertension or insomnia?
My psychiatrist prescribed the thyroid medicine. I won't find out why he didn't authorize the refill last week until I see him next week.
Posted by chad_3 on October 6, 2002, at 23:22:18
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by Timidly on October 6, 2002, at 20:30:48
Timidly -
Thanks for your understanding and comments - and my sincere apologies. I had to re-read your post it is remarkable and glad that you found a strategy that has helped ...
Chad
> Chad and Bob,
>
> I can't speak for others, but personally I felt Chad's skepticism was appropriate for this type of forum. The types of issues discussed on psycho-babble
> warrant careful evaluation and verification prior to being used as a basis for any decisions about an individuals treatment or medications.
>
> Timidly
>
Posted by Timidly on October 7, 2002, at 20:00:29
In reply to Timid - See post - death by partner of Gerner, posted by chad_3 on October 6, 2002, at 1:29:17
> Mr. Timid -
>
> Frankly - you are lucky to be alive it sounds like! There is a Dr. Gerner - whose former partner - well .... she had a patient who *died* due to overprescription of meds... true story and can search "robert gerner ucla lawsuit" to read about. Mr. Gerner is pictured on the stand - poker faced just as I viewed him in our personal sessions shortly after his zyprexa and rapid updosing of Nardil gave me chronic tardive movements .... well ... he did not actually *discuss* if with me afterword - but we did manage to discuss some things he was interested in ...
> Anyway - check it out - it is there... he is kinda old and skinny - but a good Dr. Good lucking enough to get a trial of his own for sex with a patient also published on the Net!!!> Ps: I want to be sure this post relays important med info - and it will - Gerner told me on day 1 that Zyprexa is "good for tardive ANYTHING" - and so well - there you go ! If you trust this Gerner I suggest a consult! He has openings!
>
> ChadChad,
There will always be a few bad doctors out there, but try to keep a balanced perspective.
The majority of doctors are good, ethical, capable, and sincerely interested in the wellbeing
of the patient. Patients have as much reponsibility for their medical care as their doctor.
The potential hazards of my medications has been spelled out very clearly by
all my doctors. Each time I have moved my new Pdoc has required me to sign an informed consent
and release of liability prior to writing prescriptions for the combination and dosages of medications
I require. I consider that fair, very conducive to unrestrained rigorous attempts to maintiain my
ability to function, and necessary in our current "nothing is my fault" and "law-suit at the drop of hat"
culture. I am forever indebted to the late Dr. Hugh MacNamee of the Dartmouth Hichcock Medical Center
(actually at the time Mary Hitchcock Memorial Hospital and the Dartmouth Medical School were separate entities)
for having the courage back in 1970 to try combining Ritalin with Nardil, which was at the time considered
a lethal combination. That combination gave me back my life at a time I have given up hope.Timidly
Tinidly
Posted by chad_3 on October 8, 2002, at 0:32:47
In reply to Re: Timid - See post - death by partner of Gerner » chad_3, posted by Timidly on October 7, 2002, at 20:00:29
Hi Timidly -
I definitely believe in informed consent. In CA, it is law with DA blockers - whether to skitzophrenics or Parkinson's patients.
I also believe in the right to informed consent for certain combinations - such as yours - I didn't know that was enforcable and if so I believe in it at least in certain cases. I think a low MAOI + low stimulant can be very effective combination used cautiously (yours of course both very high).
I always liked working with Dr's - except for this movement case. It has been a *real* pain this year. Anyway - enough said I've posted lots in past and again I appreciate your commentary here.
Chad
> Chad,
>
> There will always be a few bad doctors out there, but try to keep a balanced perspective.
> The majority of doctors are good, ethical, capable, and sincerely interested in the wellbeing
> of the patient. Patients have as much reponsibility for their medical care as their doctor.
> The potential hazards of my medications has been spelled out very clearly by
> all my doctors. Each time I have moved my new Pdoc has required me to sign an informed consent
> and release of liability prior to writing prescriptions for the combination and dosages of medications
> I require. I consider that fair, very conducive to unrestrained rigorous attempts to maintiain my
> ability to function, and necessary in our current "nothing is my fault" and "law-suit at the drop of hat"
> culture. I am forever indebted to the late Dr. Hugh MacNamee of the Dartmouth Hichcock Medical Center
> (actually at the time Mary Hitchcock Memorial Hospital and the Dartmouth Medical School were separate entities)
> for having the courage back in 1970 to try combining Ritalin with Nardil, which was at the time considered
> a lethal combination. That combination gave me back my life at a time I have given up hope.
>
> Timidly
>
> Tinidly
Posted by sciutti on January 26, 2003, at 18:59:19
In reply to Timid - Amazing May I speak with you personally?, posted by chad_3 on October 6, 2002, at 0:53:16
Posted by timidly on January 26, 2003, at 21:56:40
In reply to Re: Timid - Amazing May I speak with you personally? (nm), posted by sciutti on January 26, 2003, at 18:59:19
Sure. Let me know how to contact you.
This is the end of the thread.
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