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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Pascal on February 1, 2001, at 20:35:21
Hi john,
I'd like to know according to your knowledge how adrafinil can work so differently from modafinil since they almost have the same chimical structure ? I've been on modafinil 100 mg for the last 10 days and do not seem to get any benefit out of it, that's why I'm a bit reluctant about trying adrafinil since they look pretty similar to me. As I told you previously, don't know if you still remember, I was using cylert, for add + dysthemia, for the last 3 years, and it was working miraculously for me , but I had to stop it for the reason we all know(been withdrawn from the market)
My doctor and i thought about using ritalin but I'm affraid about the tolerance problem that could occur.
Have you heard about Concerta ? this new form of methylphenidate with its 12 hours efficiency !, but still , it remains the old ritalin...and it is not yet available in Montreal Canada. Talking about adrafinil,would I need a prescription ? if not what about problems related to customs ? I know that u'll recommand me to try amisulpuride with it but I'd like to try only one at first.
Now I'm having very low mood with poor concentration, low motivation and going back to work day after day becomes a burden..And I'm definatly not as half efficient as before, my collegue seems to realise it..
Well, until now I,m still hanging there...
thanks in advance,
Pascal from Montreal
Posted by SalArmy4me on February 2, 2001, at 3:37:47
In reply to To JohnL; adrafinil vs modafinil and concerta, posted by Pascal on February 1, 2001, at 20:35:21
You can actually go up to 400 mg on Provigil. 100 mg won't do much for you.
Posted by Leonardo on February 2, 2001, at 4:52:29
In reply to To JohnL; adrafinil vs modafinil and concerta, posted by Pascal on February 1, 2001, at 20:35:21
Hi Pascal
FWIW, if I were in your position, I'd take the chance of a Ritalin trial. If you really have ADHD as your primary problem as opposed to just depression for some other reason, my understanding is that tolerance is quite rare. In the meantime you have a very effective treatment.
I am desperate to get hold of Ritalin (my son is using it successfully) but can't get my Pdoc to prescribe it till I have tried yet more antidepressants.
> Hi john,
> I'd like to know according to your knowledge how adrafinil can work so differently from modafinil since they almost have the same chimical structure ? I've been on modafinil 100 mg for the last 10 days and do not seem to get any benefit out of it, that's why I'm a bit reluctant about trying adrafinil since they look pretty similar to me. As I told you previously, don't know if you still remember, I was using cylert, for add + dysthemia, for the last 3 years, and it was working miraculously for me , but I had to stop it for the reason we all know(been withdrawn from the market)
> My doctor and i thought about using ritalin but I'm affraid about the tolerance problem that could occur.
> Have you heard about Concerta ? this new form of methylphenidate with its 12 hours efficiency !, but still , it remains the old ritalin...and it is not yet available in Montreal Canada. Talking about adrafinil,would I need a prescription ? if not what about problems related to customs ? I know that u'll recommand me to try amisulpuride with it but I'd like to try only one at first.
> Now I'm having very low mood with poor concentration, low motivation and going back to work day after day becomes a burden..And I'm definatly not as half efficient as before, my collegue seems to realise it..
> Well, until now I,m still hanging there...
> thanks in advance,
> Pascal from Montreal
Posted by MarkinBoston on February 2, 2001, at 14:32:44
In reply to To JohnL; adrafinil vs modafinil and concerta, posted by Pascal on February 1, 2001, at 20:35:21
100mg. of Modifinil didn't do much for me. In the US, 200mg. pills are about $5 each, while 20mg. Ritalin pills are $.75, dex about the same, and Adderall about $1.50. Daily cost on Modifinil is $5 or $10/day, Adderall $3.00, Ritalin or dexamphetamine $1.50 (assuming 2/day is OK for you like it is for me).
I'm not convinced Modifinil is a better drug than the others, besides being far more expensive. I will try give it another chance though at higher dosages before drawing a conclusion. Ritalin did lose its effectiveness and I went to Adderall, which has been just fine. I wanted to try Modifinil for the same concerns over tolarance and withdrawall potential of the others. Withdrawall hasn't been a problem during weekend holidays I've taken and diminished effectiveness is minor too. If and until I need 2x as much and start noticing withdrawall symptoms, I'm happy with the cheaper drugs and doing my part to conserve healthcare dollars. If your doc requires an office visit for each 30-day supply, then Modifinil is more cost effective by allowing refills. That's how it is in the states where Modifinil is schedule IV and the others II.
Drug laws in the US are so stupid and a waste of money. Needing an office visit every month, while cigarettes are far more addictive and kill more people with no script needed at all. When tobacco products go to schedule I (no medical value), drug laws will gain more credibility.
Posted by JohnL on February 3, 2001, at 6:17:35
In reply to To JohnL; adrafinil vs modafinil and concerta, posted by Pascal on February 1, 2001, at 20:35:21
> Hi john,
> I'd like to know according to your knowledge how adrafinil can work so differently from modafinil since they almost have the same chimical structure ? I've been on modafinil 100 mg for the last 10 days and do not seem to get any benefit out of it, that's why I'm a bit reluctant about trying adrafinil since they look pretty similar to me. As I told you previously, don't know if you still remember, I was using cylert, for add + dysthemia, for the last 3 years, and it was working miraculously for me , but I had to stop it for the reason we all know(been withdrawn from the market)
> My doctor and i thought about using ritalin but I'm affraid about the tolerance problem that could occur.
> Have you heard about Concerta ? this new form of methylphenidate with its 12 hours efficiency !, but still , it remains the old ritalin...and it is not yet available in Montreal Canada. Talking about adrafinil,would I need a prescription ? if not what about problems related to customs ? I know that u'll recommand me to try amisulpuride with it but I'd like to try only one at first.
> Now I'm having very low mood with poor concentration, low motivation and going back to work day after day becomes a burden..And I'm definatly not as half efficient as before, my collegue seems to realise it..
> Well, until now I,m still hanging there...
> thanks in advance,
> Pascal from MontrealHi Pascal,
Even though Modafinil and Adrafinil look almost the same in molecular diagrams, in my experience they are so different. I don't know why. But I found them to be worlds apart. In a similar vein, some people respond nicely to Tegretol, which has a chemical structure very similar to tricyclic antidepressants. The tiniest little change in molecules can make a huge difference.One psychiatric book I was reading postulated that the reason one SSRI might work for someone while other SSRIs didn't is because the molecular structure of that SSRI matched the person's genetics. In short, it was a good molecular match. It had little to do with serotonin, but more to do with how well one molecule could bind to another. It's kind of like imagining that the drug molecule is a piece of a puzzle, and a brain receptor is another piece of the puzzle, and the better they fit together the better it works. Each persons' pieces of the puzzle are different, as determined by genetics, damage, or contamination.
I think when it comes to stimulants, the doctor and patient will have to weigh the risks against the benefits. If the quality of life for the patient is dramatically improved, then the risks may well be worth it. In Dr Bob's Tips for example, under a category called Stimulants for Depression, one doctor has a patient on a superhigh dose of an addictive stimulant. But the patient is so much better that they accept the addiction as a fair tradeoff. The addiction actually isn't a problem until the patient tries to quit. But if it's working, there is no reason to quit.
I was wondering if there might be a way to work with Cylert, since it was so good for you. Maybe some drug holidays every now and then, or maybe some add-ons that are good for the liver, such as SAMe and/or Milk Thistle.
In any case, I think there is always a tradeoff between benefits, risks, and side effects. When quality of life is dramatically improved, the risks don't seem too important any more. In the big picture, we're on this earth for such a short time. If we need an addictive medication to get the most out of our life, then I personally see no problem with that.
John
Posted by Lisa Berry on January 14, 2003, at 15:38:23
In reply to Re: To JohnL; adrafinil vs modafinil and concerta, posted by MarkinBoston on February 2, 2001, at 14:32:44
not to sound like a complete degenerate, but has anyone snorted modafinil? Effects?
Posted by IsoM on January 14, 2003, at 19:56:12
In reply to Re: To JohnL; adrafinil vs modafinil and concerta, posted by Lisa Berry on January 14, 2003, at 15:38:23
It's not a fast acting stimulant & I can't possibly see any benefit in doing so. It would be akin to snorting Tylenol for different effects than normal.
Posted by wingedcat on January 16, 2003, at 3:44:50
In reply to Re: To JohnL; adrafinil vs modafinil and concerta, posted by Lisa Berry on January 14, 2003, at 15:38:23
Just to let you know, being a female... (I presume)
Adrafinil and Modafinil interact with not only the birth control pill, but (according to Modafinil's website) also with contraceptive implants and injections. That's what stopped me from taking this interesting-sounding stimulant. Lucky guys :)
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