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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dave1 on December 26, 2002, at 20:26:53
I suffer from OCD/Delusional ideas. I have this belief that I'm condemned by GOD because I didn't touch something in a store. I know it sounds silly, but I can't shake the belief. I tried risperdal and it temporarily killed that delusional, but only for a couple of days.
Does anyone know other ways to treat delusional
ideas (i.e. without neuroepileptics - maybe some kind of psychotherapy, or some other drug type).Thanks,
Dave
Posted by Dinah on December 26, 2002, at 20:38:46
In reply to treating a delusion, posted by Dave1 on December 26, 2002, at 20:26:53
Dave, is it a belief or an intrusive thought? Intrusive thoughts are the hallmark of OCD, but they aren't the same as beliefs. My therapist says that on the face of it, OCD thoughts do seem delusional. The difference is in recognizing it as an intrusive thought.
If it is an intrusive thought, as opposed to a belief, I've learned a lot of tricks. My therapist gave me some. I've read a lot. My favorite tips came from the book "Stop Obsessing!: How to Overcome Your Obsessions and Compulsions" if I remember correctly. I've found singing the thought to be effective, or anything else that robs the thought of power. I've found that the thoughts lose power when I laugh at them or when I express them. They gain power when I fight them or try to keep them secret.
I don't suppose the same techniques would work for true delusions, and it's not fool proof. But cognitive behavioral therapy techniques designed specifically for OCD have a pretty good track record.
Good luck!
Posted by linkadge on December 27, 2002, at 10:48:35
In reply to Re: treating a delusion » Dave1, posted by Dinah on December 26, 2002, at 20:38:46
Thats definately a delusion.
What meds are you currently taking ?Linkadge
Posted by katiemom on December 27, 2002, at 14:47:12
In reply to Re: treating a delusion, posted by linkadge on December 27, 2002, at 10:48:35
I have delusions and also very strange ideas and thoughts. I seem to have been on every AP but the side effects bothered me. Unfortunatly Geodon made me think better and clearer and seem to stop the thoughts and delusions but the anxitieis was terrible. I just started to take Abilify and I hope it helps. I also have decided if I keep my thoughts to myself (except for my pdoc) and it doesn't interfere with my everyday life like not expressing it out loud then I just live with it. It is sometimes hard, but some of my thoughts and beliefs give me some comfort.
I hope this helps and good luck. I'll let you know how Abilify works, but it takes a few weeks (bummer because I go into psychotic rages, which is disturbing to my family.
Colleen
Posted by Dinah on December 27, 2002, at 16:37:03
In reply to Re: treating a delusion, posted by linkadge on December 27, 2002, at 10:48:35
Not necessarily, linkadge. Many OCD thoughts appear delusional, but they aren't considered delusions. I often get the thought that I ran over someone and have to circle the block to make sure. Of course no matter how many times I circle the block I can't *really* make sure. I still get the thought that I ran over someone. As long as I know the thought is irrational, and that I really didn't run over someone (even if I have to check a few times to assuage the anxiety), it's just considered an OCD intrusive thought and is treated as such rather than as a delusion.
Sometimes it does seem like a fine line though. :) But antipsychotics are not the standard treatment for OCD. SSRI's and cognitive therapy (with some benzos maybe) are.
Posted by Sebastian on December 27, 2002, at 21:30:48
In reply to Re: treating a delusion » Dave1, posted by Dinah on December 26, 2002, at 20:38:46
I started on Risperdal and I still had dillusions. So I switched to Zyprexa and the dillusions went away.
Sebastian
Posted by Dave1 on December 27, 2002, at 22:23:48
In reply to Re: treating a delusion, posted by Sebastian on December 27, 2002, at 21:30:48
Hi,
Regarding the difference between delusions and OCD thoughts, I think there is a fine line between them. I think my OCD thoughts are delusional, but I know they are OCD thoughts because I constantly think about one 'bad' thing until it gets me depressed. I think AP's can be used for OCD. I talked to a doctor at Stanford who is experimenting with IV Clomipramine to break up OCD and he asked if I had tried the standard atypical AP's for my OCD. I said yes and he was surprised they didn't help. Now, I'm even contemplating Clozaril.
Anyway, Dinah some of your ideas sound pretty cool. I should go back to an OCD doc that gave me similiar techniques that you use. Maybe some cognitive therapy. Maybe a doc with a religious bent.
I have a book called - Brain Lock - Jeffrey Schwartz, M.D. - but it hasn't been that helpful.
Thanks,
Dave
Posted by bookgurl99 on December 28, 2002, at 0:07:11
In reply to treating a delusion, posted by Dave1 on December 26, 2002, at 20:26:53
Dave, I'm really sorry that you're going through tis right now. OCD is quite burdensome; I liken it to having a kid that you have to take care of.
I have to agree that your ideas sound more OCD than delusional. I just think sometimes docs might overshoot the dx. You know that you're not _really_ condemned by God, right? And us ocd types do commonly have a thing about needing to touch things. It sucks.
You said an AP hasn't worked. So have you tried any _basic_ OCD meds? Serzone, Prozac, and Luvox have all worked for me or obsessive friends of mine. And for me, since I have a thyroid disorder, getting my thyroid in balance (esp. not too slow) really helps me to obsess less.
I believe you can get well; I did. I hope you find relief soon.
Posted by Kari on December 28, 2002, at 11:40:27
In reply to Re: treating a delusion » Dave1, posted by Dinah on December 26, 2002, at 20:38:46
Hi Dinah,
>I've found that the thoughts lose power when I laugh at them or when I express them. They gain power when I fight them or try to keep them secret.>
This is so true! I think it might also be true for mild delusions since these can result from problems in communication which prevent effective reality-testing.
Kari.
Posted by Kari on December 28, 2002, at 11:45:07
In reply to Re: treating a delusion, posted by Dave1 on December 27, 2002, at 22:23:48
Hi Dave,
Just wondering- is there supposed to be a difference between IV and oral Clomipramine- do you know anything about why it would be more effective?
TIA,
Kari.
Posted by Dave1 on December 28, 2002, at 19:23:22
In reply to Re: treating a delusion » Dave1, posted by Kari on December 28, 2002, at 11:45:07
Hi Kari,
They do it in Europe, Canada, and experimentally in USA. The doctors I talked to said it works in about 50% of resistant depression and OCD cases. They told me you get much higher doses of the drug in you body. One doctor told me that it actually changes the genes in your brain responsible for OCD or something like that. Of note, the doctor in Europe said he didn't see any basic difference between oral vs. I.V., but he still said he gets a 50% response when oral fails. They us I.V. citalopram - Celexa in Europe, and clomipramine in the USA and Canada.
You can read the research on PUBMED.
That's how I got started looking into it.Bye,
Dave
Posted by Dave1 on December 29, 2002, at 12:42:42
In reply to Re: treating a delusion, posted by Dave1 on December 28, 2002, at 19:23:22
Hi,
Regarding talking about OCD obsession, I tried talking about them with a psychologist and he would try to rationalize with me and talk to me about the worries. This just made me think about them more. It didn't make them go away or make me believe them less.
One psychiatrist gave me some helpful tips. He said I should work or keep busy. Then I would be too busy to worry. Also, regarding procrastination, he said I shouldn't wait for the perfect situation or I would never get anything done.
I guess psychiatrists are smarter than psychologists, unfortunately not cheaper.
Bye,
Dave
Posted by Kari on December 29, 2002, at 12:59:29
In reply to Re: treating a delusion, posted by Dave1 on December 28, 2002, at 19:23:22
Thanks for your reply, Dave.
Posted by dreamerz on December 29, 2002, at 16:20:13
In reply to Re: treating a delusion » Dave1, posted by Dinah on December 26, 2002, at 20:38:46
I thought that if someone was deluded they weren't aware of it..?
Posted by Dave1 on December 29, 2002, at 22:03:21
In reply to Re: treating a delusion, posted by dreamerz on December 29, 2002, at 16:20:13
That's a good point, I think it depends on the severity of the delusional state.
Posted by michael73 on January 3, 2003, at 14:34:55
In reply to treating a delusion, posted by Dave1 on December 26, 2002, at 20:26:53
Hi Dave, I've experienced OCD/GAD/depression/brain fog/social anxiety/severe paruresis (bashful bladder syndrome) and have wondered if I'm bipolar. I think OCD is at the core of it all though. There's some neat observations in the above posts like the not being able to "really" be sure of something and procrastinating until the "right" time to start something. I don't think you're need to touch something is silly at all, as I can relate to it, though I don't generally have such specific reasons to do something like that. It's usually just a vague need to satisfy "something", though on a more subconsious level I may have reasons similar to yours. I am prone to feelings of guilt - I think that just goes hand in hand with OCD; as it is kind of a "thinking disease". In fact I have some trouble posting at this sight because I'm afraid I'm going to leave out a piece of information that may help someone. My posting may even be equivalent to your touching in that I'm afraid of what God would think of me if I don't try to help people by sharing my experiences. I've been almost entirely medication free for the last two years but when things came to a head 7 years ago, i.e. nervous breakdown, clomipramine (anafranil) had an amazing capacity to wash away obsessions. I felt "sure" about things and could start things at any time without waiting for the "perfect" time. I had a feeling of perspective I hadn't had before. I had uncomfortable side effects though and couldn't stand even 50mg /day. (I took only 50 mg every 36 hrs). Watch out for difficulty urinating. If I took too much I think it'd completely plug me. I was also uncomforatable with the "uptightness". I took it for 5 years. After two years of doing well medication free (probably by keeping my life stable) I hit a bump and took it for just a couple of days so I could put things in perspective. It worked. Good Luck, Michael73
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