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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Chloe on December 28, 2002, at 10:09:40
Hi Everyone,
I have been away for a while. Things have been going pretty well since I embarked on ECT. I still have mood cycles/swings. And I am sure I always will. ButI now have the energy and positive attitude to learn how to manage them better.
I am only having ECT about once a month now. Known as "mantainance ECT." However, unlike when I was having more regular ECT when I had no headaches, I am now getting these migraine type headaches that last for days after the treatment. I tried to reach the MD in charge, but he is away for the weekend. I wonder if the headaches have anything to do with the other meds I take?
5 mcgs t3
650-900 lithium(which I hold at noon the day before ECT per the doc's orders)
40 doxepin
5-10 diazpamAnyone have any thoughts about this head exploding headache that comes after ECT? I don't want to quit the maintain ECT. It has been so helpful. It has completely turned my back around. I am SO grateful.
Thanks,
Chloe
Posted by Chloe on December 28, 2002, at 10:14:41
In reply to ECT and headaches, posted by Chloe on December 28, 2002, at 10:09:40
Oh, and BTW, advil, tylenol, aleve, all USELESS!
Just a PS!
Chloe
Posted by Ritch on December 28, 2002, at 18:02:41
In reply to ECT and headaches, posted by Chloe on December 28, 2002, at 10:09:40
> Hi Everyone,
> I have been away for a while. Things have been going pretty well since I embarked on ECT. I still have mood cycles/swings. And I am sure I always will. ButI now have the energy and positive attitude to learn how to manage them better.
> I am only having ECT about once a month now. Known as "mantainance ECT." However, unlike when I was having more regular ECT when I had no headaches, I am now getting these migraine type headaches that last for days after the treatment. I tried to reach the MD in charge, but he is away for the weekend. I wonder if the headaches have anything to do with the other meds I take?
> 5 mcgs t3
> 650-900 lithium(which I hold at noon the day before ECT per the doc's orders)
> 40 doxepin
> 5-10 diazpam
>
> Anyone have any thoughts about this head exploding headache that comes after ECT? I don't want to quit the maintain ECT. It has been so helpful. It has completely turned my back around. I am SO grateful.
> Thanks,
> Chloe
>
Hi Chloe, it sounds like you are doing reasonably well despite the headaches. How many days after the ECT do the headaches last? Do you think it might be muscle tension aches from the seizure the ECT produces instead of a "migraine" type headache? Can you describe the symptoms of the headaches in more detail? There might be someone that can identify with them and give you some tips. It sounds strange you are experiencing these headaches *more* frequently now that you are having *less* frequent ECT sessions. Did they change the *nature* of your ECT when you went to once a month maintenance? I noticed that you are sticking with the T3. Have you had another TSH lately? Glad you are doing better, I wouldn't mess with stopping the ECT, IMO....Mitch
Posted by Sebastian on December 28, 2002, at 18:22:37
In reply to ECT and headaches, posted by Chloe on December 28, 2002, at 10:09:40
I remember having a strange type of headache after ECT. They may take a while to go away, they are deffinatly worth it. The headaches will compleatly go away.
Sebastian
Posted by Chloe on December 28, 2002, at 20:37:46
In reply to Re: ECT and headaches » Chloe, posted by Ritch on December 28, 2002, at 18:02:41
> Hi Chloe, it sounds like you are doing reasonably well despite the headaches. How many days after the ECT do the headaches last? Do you think it might be muscle tension aches from the seizure the ECT produces instead of a "migraine" type headache? Can you describe the symptoms of the headaches in more detail? There might be someone that can identify with them and give you some tips. It sounds strange you are experiencing these headaches *more* frequently now that you are having *less* frequent ECT sessions. Did they change the *nature* of your ECT when you went to once a month maintenance? I noticed that you are sticking with the T3. Have you had another TSH lately? Glad you are doing better, I wouldn't mess with stopping the ECT, IMO....Mitch
Hi Mitch!
How's it going? I am glad you mentioned that you "wouldn't mess with stopping the ECT." I was thinking that would be one way to "cure" the headaches! But I think you are right. ECT has been so beneficial to me. I don't want to abruptly end this very productive treatment session I have had. I feel so lucky, something has finally worked for me, after all these years, and med trials, etc, etc.The headaches last about two days. And they are quite intense. If I bend over my brain throbs. If I sneeze (ouch!) or strain in anyway, I have to stop whatever I am doing and freeze to manage the mounting pain. I took 3) 200 mgs Advil at work today and I did get a little relief. I think when I was having ECT frequently, I was unable to work, so maybe I was resting more after a treatment??? Hence avoiding a headache??? I don't think the ECT is any different...
I have stuck with the T3. But I think I need more. I am sooo tired alot of the time. T3 has some nice AD qualities and boosts my energy level(it also initially caused anxiety, but that seems to go away after a few days).
I haven't had another blood level drawn b/c my pdoc didn't do much with the first level. My T4 was borderline low and so was the T3. She said since they are on the "borderline" I should just go by how I feel, not a number. I was very disappointed with her answer. Most labs would have called my T4 low. But her hospital thought it was "OK." So maybe when she is back in the new year, I can talk to her more about increasing the thyroid...I am just so sleepy alot of the time. Not depressed, just tired. This is new for me.
Nice to hear from you and hope you are well,
Chloe
Posted by Chloe on December 28, 2002, at 20:43:35
In reply to Re: ECT and headaches, posted by Sebastian on December 28, 2002, at 18:22:37
> I remember having a strange type of headache after ECT. They may take a while to go away, they are deffinatly worth it. The headaches will compleatly go away.
>
> SebastianSebastian,
Did you ever take anything to help them go away faster? Or did the docs every give you anything?
Thanks
Chloe
Posted by Phil on December 28, 2002, at 21:40:34
In reply to Re: ECT and headaches » Sebastian, posted by Chloe on December 28, 2002, at 20:43:35
Chloe, I don't have any experience there but do you think they could be like aftershocks in a way that earthquakes have 'rumblings'? Maybe your brain is having mini-seizure activity and it hurts just the way a seizue might. That's a very wild guess.
Whatever it is, let us know. It sounds very interesting. Sorry you're having to go through them though.
Posted by IsoM on December 29, 2002, at 0:51:30
In reply to ECT and headaches, posted by Chloe on December 28, 2002, at 10:09:40
Hi Chloe, I've lost track of you. Would you mind emailing me at isomorphix at hotmail dot com & then I'll answer from my regular email addy.
You say your head pounds when you bend over or sneeze. Has your blood pressure been checked at all? I have normal/low bp but when I have headaches for any reason, my head pounds terribly when I bend over or move quickly. I start to black out easier too. I never completely black out but everything goes grey & the head pain shoots right up. I think my bp drops a bit more with headaches due to constriction of the blood vessels.
It's hard to know where a migraine headache ends & a tension headache takes over. Pain feeds sore tense muscles & the sore muscles feed further headaches.
You might want to ask the ECT techs or doctor if they've changed any of the pre-ECT meds that they give you. It's possible that the muscle relaxants are different. I know that some doctors would also give a small dose of haliperidol just before or after a treatment. I honestly can't say what its purpose is for. And for what little I know, it's even possible that the dose of muscle relaxant isn't quite enough & the rigidity of the tighten muscles during the ECT is enough to give you a long lasting headache. All just some ideas.
I am *very* glad you're feeling better though! It may be a good idea to press the issue about your borderline low thyroid readings. I know with me it wouldn't be good enough. I would feel sluggish, tired, & my mood would be much lower. A lot depends on what one's level would be if you were completely well.
Posted by Ritch on December 29, 2002, at 10:26:19
In reply to Re: ECT and headaches » Ritch, posted by Chloe on December 28, 2002, at 20:37:46
> Hi Mitch!
> How's it going? I am glad you mentioned that you "wouldn't mess with stopping the ECT." I was thinking that would be one way to "cure" the headaches! But I think you are right. ECT has been so beneficial to me. I don't want to abruptly end this very productive treatment session I have had. I feel so lucky, something has finally worked for me, after all these years, and med trials, etc, etc.
>
> The headaches last about two days. And they are quite intense. If I bend over my brain throbs. If I sneeze (ouch!) or strain in anyway, I have to stop whatever I am doing and freeze to manage the mounting pain. I took 3) 200 mgs Advil at work today and I did get a little relief. I think when I was having ECT frequently, I was unable to work, so maybe I was resting more after a treatment??? Hence avoiding a headache??? I don't think the ECT is any different...
>
> I have stuck with the T3. But I think I need more. I am sooo tired alot of the time. T3 has some nice AD qualities and boosts my energy level(it also initially caused anxiety, but that seems to go away after a few days).
> I haven't had another blood level drawn b/c my pdoc didn't do much with the first level. My T4 was borderline low and so was the T3. She said since they are on the "borderline" I should just go by how I feel, not a number. I was very disappointed with her answer. Most labs would have called my T4 low. But her hospital thought it was "OK." So maybe when she is back in the new year, I can talk to her more about increasing the thyroid...I am just so sleepy alot of the time. Not depressed, just tired. This is new for me.
> Nice to hear from you and hope you are well,
> Chloe
>
>Hi, it sounds like the type of headache that you get when you have the flu and you are dehydrated and hypotensive. I wonder if withholding the lithium the day of the ECT causes a "blip" in the Li levels that temporarily tinkers with your electrolytes and produces the effect? Maybe you just need to hydrate a little more afterwards with some Gatorade or something. If they are just two days out of the month that isn't too bad. Interesting that you say not depressed, just tired! That sums up most of my problems. I shouldn't whine too much, I've probably been more stable these last two depressive spells than I ever have. I'm really glad you are feeling better! ---Mitch
Posted by Chloe on December 29, 2002, at 12:01:26
In reply to Re: ECT and headaches » Chloe, posted by Ritch on December 29, 2002, at 10:26:19
> Hi, it sounds like the type of headache that you get when you have the flu and you are dehydrated and hypotensive. I wonder if withholding the lithium the day of the ECT causes a "blip" in the Li levels that temporarily tinkers with your electrolytes and produces the effect? Maybe you just need to hydrate a little more afterwards with some Gatorade or something. If they are just two days out of the month that isn't too bad. Interesting that you say not depressed, just tired! That sums up most of my problems. I shouldn't whine too much, I've probably been more stable these last two depressive spells than I ever have. I'm really glad you are feeling better! ---Mitch
Hi Mitch,
...Interestingly, I do think holding the Li does have some effect on me. I tend to be very short fused the morning after I held the Li. I.e., I have no patience for any delays or unexpected phenomenons happening before my appointment. And of course they're usually are! But I think there is some *bad* reaction between Li and electricity...
I have started really hydrating more after the treatments. I want to wash out all those meds they give me to put me to sleep as well. The anesthesiologist seems to have a shirt pocket full of drawn up syringes that I know he is going to squeeze into my IV. I clearly have to talk to the MD more about the meds and headaches. But as you said 2 days out of a months isn't too bad.
I am so glad you are having some more tolerable, stable times too. I find it so strange to feel sluggish and tired, but not dismal! And if it does turn dismal, I always have hope it's not going to last. And it never does. I always thought my bad moods were permanent! Fortunately or unfortunately...NO mood is permanent with me. I have had to get better at dealing with constant change. Or better at waiting til the next mood arrives.
Thanks for the tip, Mitch
Chloe
Posted by Sebastian on December 29, 2002, at 16:22:11
In reply to Re: ECT and headaches » Sebastian, posted by Chloe on December 28, 2002, at 20:43:35
I don't remember, they may have. I was getting ECT every 3 days. The gas in my arm seemed to be doing the trick. I may have complained and got something, possibly a sedative.
Sebastian
Posted by Dave1 on December 29, 2002, at 22:29:34
In reply to Re: ECT and headaches, posted by Sebastian on December 29, 2002, at 16:22:11
Hi Chloe:
Maybe you could talk your doctor into giving you a mild barbituate like fiorinal or fioricet. You wouldn't get addicted if you just take it two days a month. Also, they are very effective and I think they would clear your problem right up.
Dave
Posted by Chloe on December 29, 2002, at 22:51:11
In reply to Re: ECT and headaches, posted by Dave1 on December 29, 2002, at 22:29:34
> Hi Chloe:
>
> Maybe you could talk your doctor into giving you a mild barbituate like fiorinal or fioricet. You wouldn't get addicted if you just take it two days a month. Also, they are very effective and I think they would clear your problem right up.
>
> DaveHi Dave,
I think I get fiorinal IV before the treatment along with some nausea medicine. But clearly I need something afterwards. The headache is just about gone now and it's been 2 and a half days. I wonder if they would give me a script for after the treatment???
Thanks
Chloe
Posted by Dave1 on December 30, 2002, at 23:09:52
In reply to Re: ECT and headaches » Dave1, posted by Chloe on December 29, 2002, at 22:51:11
I would hope they would give you some pills for atfterwards. Just tell them you'll only take it for 2 days and won't abuse it or get addicted to it by taking it longer. Luck.
Dave
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