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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 31. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tepiaca on December 21, 2002, at 14:35:58
Does anybody knows , where can I see pictures or videos of people suffering Tardive diskinesia?
I really want to see how seriuos is this thing
Maybe one day I going to have this
Posted by Phyl on December 21, 2002, at 19:00:47
In reply to Tardive Diskinesia pictures, posted by Tepiaca on December 21, 2002, at 14:35:58
> Does anybody knows , where can I see pictures or videos of people suffering Tardive diskinesia?
> I really want to see how seriuos is this thing
> Maybe one day I going to have this
Tepiaca - You can always ask your doc about programs that discuss this condition. Not long ago, I saw a TV special that followed several patients with different problems -- one of the patients had TD. You can read about it on the web.
Do you think you might end up with this because of the medication that you are currently on? I really wish you well and hope it is a groundless fear. (We all have a lot of those.....)
Good luck to you, and I hope you enjoy this holiday season.
Posted by Tabitha on December 22, 2002, at 4:15:13
In reply to Tardive Diskinesia pictures, posted by Tepiaca on December 21, 2002, at 14:35:58
the Brad Pitt character in the movie 12 Monkeys was supposed to have it I think. Not sure how accurate a Hollywood movie would be though.
Posted by Tepiaca on December 22, 2002, at 18:40:02
In reply to Re: Tardive Diskinesia pictures, posted by Tabitha on December 22, 2002, at 4:15:13
and here In the web? If anyone knows a page please tell me
Thanx
Posted by chad_3 on December 22, 2002, at 21:45:11
In reply to Tardive Diskinesia pictures, posted by Tepiaca on December 21, 2002, at 14:35:58
Hi Tepiaca -
What happened? Videos are the way to go - reading is very difficult. They are hard to get - in fact info on TD is hard to get even on PubMed as abstracts often are blacked out. This is in my opinion not a coincidence but some groups of people somehow do not want this info so easily available (and it in fact is not although TD is amazingly common in those taking a/p's).
It is unfortunate that someone like Dr. Bob here will not assist you. He is a Dr. and in my opinion should take that title and use it to some good on this site.
Try to see your Dr. as often as possible for now and also if possible talk to another psychiatrist if possible about your regimen and any information another professional might have to give.
Keep us posted.
Chad
> Does anybody knows , where can I see pictures or videos of people suffering Tardive diskinesia?
> I really want to see how seriuos is this thing
> Maybe one day I going to have this
Posted by chad_3 on December 22, 2002, at 21:47:49
In reply to Re: Tardive Diskinesia pictures, posted by Tepiaca on December 22, 2002, at 18:40:02
If you write me at my site I can give you a few links. Akathisia as I think you mentioned is a restlessness of the legs is that right?
Chad
http://www.socialfear.com/> and here In the web? If anyone knows a page please tell me
> Thanx
Posted by judy1 on December 23, 2002, at 10:31:35
In reply to Tardive Diskinesia pictures, posted by Tepiaca on December 21, 2002, at 14:35:58
Sorry, I don't have a site to send you to, although if you do a search on Medscape you'll get the written word. What drugs are you on? I've gotten akathesia from SSRIs and Parkinson-like tremors from APs- both atypical and the older ones- in my hand. The tongue thrusting is usually a result of long term AP usage and I have seen it in psych wards. This is the main reason why I am so against AP usage in someone who is not psychotic, the TD risk far outweighs any benefits, which are usually sedation for which the benzo family works extremely well. If you have any questions? Take care, judy
Posted by Tepiaca on December 23, 2002, at 14:28:50
In reply to Re: Tardive Diskinesia pictures » Tepiaca, posted by judy1 on December 23, 2002, at 10:31:35
Hi judy , so you are telling me that you have suffered from TD? Is this reversible? How many years have you been on Antypsichotics? Why are you
using them for?
Thanks
Posted by syringachalet on December 24, 2002, at 22:07:50
In reply to Re: Tardive Diskinesia pictures-judy-, posted by Tepiaca on December 23, 2002, at 14:28:50
Judy,
Tardive Dyskinesia is a permentent neurological sydrome that its symptoms mimic advanced Parkinsons disease.Although the symptoms can sometimes be reduced by changes in medications, once TD is diagnosised, it almost never totally leaves. Today even having EPS will cause a psych doc to be careful. That is why drugs like SSRIs and other new drugs might take longer to work for the patiewnt but they are so much safer regarding risk of TD.
The majority of those with TD are those whom have been on long term psychotropic medications in the familys of tricyclics( Elavil), benzodyasipanes(Prolixin) , and sedative-hyponotics(Xanax).
It is thought that long term use of these medications cause the brain to permentally need them to 'turn down ' the brain noise/confusion and allow the cognetive part of the brain 'catch up with the emotional' part of the brain.
After months or in most people years of med use, the body builds up a tolerance to the drugs theraputic effects and the neruo systems decides to 'have a mind of its own'.It might just be a eye twitch and a hand tremor or pill rolling to start, later leg jerking, neck hyperextension, and athatoid tongue(snake-like movements). The person having these behaviors may or may not be independentally aware to these actions and most have no control.
I have seen several long term psychic patients who had advanced TD. They had difficulty in walking, speaking, eating/drinking and eventually breathing. Most die from complications of starvation/malnutrition, aspiration pneumonia or accidents.
If you look at Michel J. Fox(actor and Parkinson research activist) or Janet Reno( former high U. S. government offical. Probably the one most visible example of these type of symptoms of Parkinson type behavior is Mohammand Ali.It is because of things like TD, that psych docs now are so cautious prescribing those meds described eariler for long term use.
Sorry that this is so long....
syringachalet
Posted by jimmygold70 on December 25, 2002, at 11:18:53
In reply to Tardive Diskinesia pictures, posted by Tepiaca on December 21, 2002, at 14:35:58
It IS serious, though pretty rare those days. You can walk into some university's medicine library and pick an old movie about schizophernics (from the sixties-seventies). That time - they had it. My late grandpa took a low dose of Haldol fore a copule of years and developed Oral Dyskinesia, which isn't far from TD.
Posted by Guy on December 25, 2002, at 17:54:44
In reply to Re: Tardive Diskinesia pictures-judy-, posted by syringachalet on December 24, 2002, at 22:07:50
Tricyclics and particularly benzodiazepines do not cause TD as far as I know. Please identify your sources.
Posted by syringachalet on December 27, 2002, at 12:30:22
In reply to No TD from benzos, posted by Guy on December 25, 2002, at 17:54:44
As a four year college graduate from a professional nurseing program with 20 years of experience providing direct patient care and then later supervising that same care, I have experienced first hand what these powwerful medications can do.
Most of the clients had been on their psycoactive medications long term greater than 10 years.
Over time when newer,less toxic meds evolved, the psych docs attempted to taper these patients doses down and switch to newer drugs with less negative side effects.
As I am uncertain of your medical credentials,
perhaps you would refer to the U.S. Food and Drug websites for a multitude of website resources for you to read and quote from....I was simply trying to share some of the hands-on working knowledge I have used daily for over 20 years with others whom it might appreciate it...
LB,RN,BSN,ABS
Posted by Alan on December 27, 2002, at 14:47:37
In reply to Re: No TD from benzos, posted by syringachalet on December 27, 2002, at 12:30:22
> As a four year college graduate from a professional nurseing program with 20 years of experience providing direct patient care and then later supervising that same care, I have experienced first hand what these powwerful medications can do.
> Most of the clients had been on their psycoactive medications long term greater than 10 years.
> Over time when newer,less toxic meds evolved, the psych docs attempted to taper these patients doses down and switch to newer drugs with less negative side effects.
> As I am uncertain of your medical credentials,
> perhaps you would refer to the U.S. Food and Drug websites for a multitude of website resources for you to read and quote from....
>
> I was simply trying to share some of the hands-on working knowledge I have used daily for over 20 years with others whom it might appreciate it...
>
> LB,RN,BSN,ABS
=======================================
I know of absolutely no studies or information other than anecdotal information that is provided in the case of bzds.Please provide the source of your information.
There can be sudden withdrawal without a taper from bzd therapy that may cause temporary seizures. Aside from that I know of no research that demonstrates diagnosis of TD (an entirely different matter than seizures).
Alan
Posted by Guy on December 27, 2002, at 18:22:43
In reply to Re: No TD from benzos » syringachalet, posted by Alan on December 27, 2002, at 14:47:37
Benzos definitely do not cause TD...although they have their own problems, they are among the safest drugs available. Dr. Stuart Shipko, who uses benzos extensively to treat anxiety disorders, does say, however, that TD can appear years after discontinuation of anti-psychotics. He says that almost all people with TD have a history of using AP medication. He warns that AP meds should be used only when psychosis is diagnosed.
Posted by Alan on December 27, 2002, at 18:50:30
In reply to Re: No TD from benzos, posted by Guy on December 27, 2002, at 18:22:43
> Benzos definitely do not cause TD...although they have their own problems, they are among the safest drugs available. Dr. Stuart Shipko, who uses benzos extensively to treat anxiety disorders, does say, however, that TD can appear years after discontinuation of anti-psychotics. He says that almost all people with TD have a history of using AP medication. He warns that AP meds should be used only when psychosis is diagnosed.
==================================
Yes, and this is what makes the adminstration of AP's even in small doses to treat anxiety because of benzophobia, so scandalous. It's not the drug (bzds), it's the proper diagnosis, administration, and follow-up that's important with any drug - especially with so much misinformation out there in the ether about them.The folklore takes on mythical proportions.
Alan
Alan
Posted by syringachalet on December 27, 2002, at 20:26:37
In reply to Re: No TD from benzos » Guy, posted by Alan on December 27, 2002, at 18:50:30
It is apparent the all medication questions should be forward to Alan who is all knowing and has nothing better to do with his day than to belittle the efforts of those who care enough to post here... Alan, get a life...
Posted by Alan on December 27, 2002, at 21:06:42
In reply to Re: No TD from benzos, posted by syringachalet on December 27, 2002, at 20:26:37
> It is apparent the all medication questions should be forward to Alan who is all knowing and has nothing better to do with his day than to belittle the efforts of those who care enough to post here... Alan, get a life...
==============================================
Wow. What is the matter? I was addressing Guy, and along with others, requesting research about evidence that bzds cause TD.Bzds have been mentioned as having caused alot of different things. TD is not one of them as far as I've been able to turn up in the plethora of research.
Alan
Posted by J. Wesley on December 28, 2002, at 7:40:01
In reply to Re: No TD from benzos, posted by syringachalet on December 27, 2002, at 12:30:22
> As a four year college graduate from a professional nurseing program with 20 years of experience providing direct patient care and then later supervising that same care, I have experienced first hand what these powwerful medications can do.
> Most of the clients had been on their psycoactive medications long term greater than 10 years.
> Over time when newer,less toxic meds evolved, the psych docs attempted to taper these patients doses down and switch to newer drugs with less negative side effects.
> As I am uncertain of your medical credentials,
> perhaps you would refer to the U.S. Food and Drug websites for a multitude of website resources for you to read and quote from....
>
> I was simply trying to share some of the hands-on working knowledge I have used daily for over 20 years with others whom it might appreciate it...
>
> LB,RN,BSN,ABS
_________________________________Well...doing a simple U.S. Food and Drug website search on MSN turned up 44477 websites. Uggg... I don't have time to check out all these sites. However, I ran across a site a while back that might be of some help. http://www.dystonia- support.org/index.htm
I found this site to be easy to understand and full of information that I wasn't aware of. Certainly no medical professional has discussed any of these dystonic distinctions with me.
I would really appreciate it if someone could point me to research showing a direct correlation between TD and the benzodiazepines.
As far as the newer classes of drugs being safer, such as the ssri's, the atypical AP's, etc., the long term side effects of these drugs have yet to be proven, due to the very fact that they are so new. However, there are anecdotal reports all over the web that these two classes of drugs aren't as safe as initially thought with respect to dystonia type problems.
The use of these newer drugs are still a crapshoot concerning long term use and side effects. One can't honestly state that newer is safer (or less toxic), because long term studies aren't possible with new drugs. That statement is a marketing ploy to gain market share propogated by big pharmicia. I don't understand why so many in the medical profession overlook this (well, yes I do, but I don't want to get into ethics, even though it is now intricately involved in medicine). At least with most of the older drugs we have good research showing what we are dealing with.
J. Wesley
Posted by J. Wesley on December 28, 2002, at 7:47:33
In reply to Re: No TD from benzos » syringachalet, posted by J. Wesley on December 28, 2002, at 7:40:01
> > As a four year college graduate from a professional nurseing program with 20 years of experience providing direct patient care and then later supervising that same care, I have experienced first hand what these powwerful medications can do.
> > Most of the clients had been on their psycoactive medications long term greater than 10 years.
> > Over time when newer,less toxic meds evolved, the psych docs attempted to taper these patients doses down and switch to newer drugs with less negative side effects.
> > As I am uncertain of your medical credentials,
> > perhaps you would refer to the U.S. Food and Drug websites for a multitude of website resources for you to read and quote from....
> >
> > I was simply trying to share some of the hands-on working knowledge I have used daily for over 20 years with others whom it might appreciate it...
> >
> > LB,RN,BSN,ABS
> _________________________________
>
> Well...doing a simple U.S. Food and Drug website search on MSN turned up 44477 websites. Uggg... I don't have time to check out all these sites. However, I ran across a site a while back that might be of some help. http://www.dystonia- support.org/index.htm
>
> I found this site to be easy to understand and full of information that I wasn't aware of. Certainly no medical professional has discussed any of these dystonic distinctions with me.
>
> I would really appreciate it if someone could point me to research showing a direct correlation between TD and the benzodiazepines.
>
> As far as the newer classes of drugs being safer, such as the ssri's, the atypical AP's, etc., the long term side effects of these drugs have yet to be proven, due to the very fact that they are so new. However, there are anecdotal reports all over the web that these two classes of drugs aren't as safe as initially thought with respect to dystonia type problems.
>
> The use of these newer drugs are still a crapshoot concerning long term use and side effects. One can't honestly state that newer is safer (or less toxic), because long term studies aren't possible with new drugs. That statement is a marketing ploy to gain market share propogated by big pharmicia. I don't understand why so many in the medical profession overlook this (well, yes I do, but I don't want to get into ethics, even though it is now intricately involved in medicine). At least with most of the older drugs we have good research showing what we are dealing with.
>
> J. Wesley
>
_________________________Ummm, sorry............
web address,
http://www.dystonia-support.org/index.htmJ. Wesley
Posted by syringachalet on December 28, 2002, at 12:17:42
In reply to Re: No TD from benzos » J. Wesley, posted by J. Wesley on December 28, 2002, at 7:47:33
Thanks for sharing the wealth, J. Wesley.
Now that I have had some time after cleints needs are met, I found this very helpful website that might be of interest to anyone whom has concerns about this issue of TD.
It is provided by the University of Kansas and it is written for the general public/patient info.kumc.edu/parkinson/td.html
Lets all work together on this.. we are all on the same team!!!
syringachalet
Posted by Alan on December 28, 2002, at 16:54:23
In reply to Re: No TD from benzos, posted by syringachalet on December 28, 2002, at 12:17:42
> Thanks for sharing the wealth, J. Wesley.
>
> Now that I have had some time after cleints needs are met, I found this very helpful website that might be of interest to anyone whom has concerns about this issue of TD.
> It is provided by the University of Kansas and it is written for the general public/patient info.
>
> kumc.edu/parkinson/td.html
>
> Lets all work together on this.. we are all on the same team!!!
>
>
> syringachalet
===============================================
This page mentions neuroleptics, AD's, and other medications causing the differing forms of TD. It even recommends the use of bzds to treat some symptoms of TD.Did I miss something about bzd's being responsible for TD? Is there another link showing other info such as studies, etc, linking bzds to the causation of TD?
Alan
Posted by J. Wesley on December 28, 2002, at 16:58:49
In reply to Re: No TD from benzos, posted by syringachalet on December 28, 2002, at 12:17:42
I spent a little time researching the net this afternoon to see if I could find any research showing a link between benzodiazepines and dyskinesias. Here is a link I found. Scroll down to the charts listing meds if you don't want to read all about TD.
If anyone has any idea why xanax is listed, please feel free to educate me.
http://emedicine.com/neuro/topic362.htm#target2J. Wesley
Posted by ZeeZee on December 28, 2002, at 17:18:06
In reply to Re: Xanax linked to Dyskinesias, posted by J. Wesley on December 28, 2002, at 16:58:49
Since caffeine is listed as causing TD along with xanax I'd be very curious to know the incidence or probability of this occuring with either benzo's or caffeine. After working as a psychotherapist for over 20 years in the field of addiction and in-patient psychiatry I can safely say that I never saw, nor heard of TD being caused by an AD or benzo, only AP's (and that was infrequent at best). If I am misinformed I welcome the correction, but I am very doubtful that there is much probablity of developing movement disorders from benzo's or caffeine.
Posted by J. Wesley on December 28, 2002, at 18:04:38
In reply to So is caffeine! » J. Wesley, posted by ZeeZee on December 28, 2002, at 17:18:06
> Since caffeine is listed as causing TD along with xanax I'd be very curious to know the incidence or probability of this occuring with either benzo's or caffeine. After working as a psychotherapist for over 20 years in the field of addiction and in-patient psychiatry I can safely say that I never saw, nor heard of TD being caused by an AD or benzo, only AP's (and that was infrequent at best). If I am misinformed I welcome the correction, but I am very doubtful that there is much probablity of developing movement disorders from benzo's or caffeine.
_________________________________
This is all new to me. But I didn't have to look very hard to find this one article. I have the same questions as you and would like to know specifically why xanax, and no other benzo's are listed. In almost all the other articles I looked at, ativan, klonopin, and valium are listed as sometimes being beneficial in alleviating the symptoms of TD.
I'm not going to lose any sleep over this, but it is curious, as I take a xanax.....
J. Wesley
Posted by ZeeZee on December 28, 2002, at 18:28:01
In reply to Re: So is caffeine! » ZeeZee, posted by J. Wesley on December 28, 2002, at 18:04:38
Xanax is my life saver. Since I began its use before I became such a pharmacaphobe, it is still considered "safe" by my thinking, (unlike the other benzo's that I need to try but am afraid of.)
I'd be very interested in any further information you might find regarding the connection between TD and xanax. Like you, I'm not going to lose any sleep over this and plan on continuing its use as needed.
Thanks
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