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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by bubblegumchewer on December 20, 2002, at 13:01:32
Ok, there is a woman who irritates me beyond belief on another board (a pregnant women's board) but I will skip all the details. My basic gripe with her this time is that she has recommended to anyone suffering from insomnia what her midwife recommended to her. It is a product with these ingredients:
Magnesium (as magnesium citrate)
150mg
Calcium (as calcium lactate)
75mg
Passion Flower (Passiflora incarnata) 270mg
Passion Flower 4:1 Extract (Passiflora incarnata) 30mg
Valerian Root (Valeriana officinalis) 135mg
Valerian Root 4:1 Extract (Valeriana officinalis) 15mg
Hops Flower, Strobile (Humulus lupulus) 270mg
Hops Strobile 4:1 Extract (Humulus lupulus) 30mg
Kava Kava Root (Piper methysticum) 90mgI am not going to go back and respond to her because I made vow several weeks ago to only read that board and not respond. This is because I didn't think it was a good mental health habit for me to get into fights with those who irritate me online. I'm proud of staying away. I've never been a real fighter but I've made enough slightly snide comments to offend the monumentally sensitive people there and I just don't want to venture into that territory.
Now, my question is (and I think I partially know the answer): Just because something is "all-natural" does not give it the green light for anyone to use, especially pregnant women, right? I mean, aren't some of these ingredients more than merely food supplements but rather pharmaceutically active and therefore they should be investigated before being recommended as safe even for pregnant women just because they are "all-natural?"
As you can see, I am not fooled by the "a.n." claim and that is my irritation of the day. Ok, I'll get over this crotchety episode but I just wanted someone to confirm that these ingredients (kava, valerian to name a few) might be something to question before just popping them on the advice of a midwife. I am irritated by health professionals and laypeople alike who endorse any product that is "a.n." without knowing much about it.
Posted by comftnumb on December 20, 2002, at 14:33:08
In reply to For Larry Hoover or anyone else: All-Natural!, posted by bubblegumchewer on December 20, 2002, at 13:01:32
Hey why don't you try some cannabis sativa, coca leaf, or papaver somniferum. All natural!!!
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 20, 2002, at 15:57:25
In reply to For Larry Hoover or anyone else: All-Natural!, posted by bubblegumchewer on December 20, 2002, at 13:01:32
> Ok, there is a woman who irritates me beyond belief on another board (a pregnant women's board) but I will skip all the details. My basic gripe with her this time is that she has recommended to anyone suffering from insomnia what her midwife recommended to her. It is a product with these ingredients:
>
> Magnesium (as magnesium citrate)
> 150mg
>
> Calcium (as calcium lactate)
> 75mg
>
> Passion Flower (Passiflora incarnata) 270mg
> Passion Flower 4:1 Extract (Passiflora incarnata) 30mg
> Valerian Root (Valeriana officinalis) 135mg
> Valerian Root 4:1 Extract (Valeriana officinalis) 15mg
> Hops Flower, Strobile (Humulus lupulus) 270mg
> Hops Strobile 4:1 Extract (Humulus lupulus) 30mg
> Kava Kava Root (Piper methysticum) 90mg> Now, my question is (and I think I partially know the answer): Just because something is "all-natural" does not give it the green light for anyone to use, especially pregnant women, right?
That is a dangerous generalization.
>I mean, aren't some of these ingredients more than merely food supplements but rather pharmaceutically active and therefore they should be investigated before being recommended as safe even for pregnant women just because they are "all-natural?"
The very first hit I had on Google warned against using passionflower when pregnant:
http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/8513/31402/346376.html?d=dmtContent"Passionflower is not recommended during pregnancy or breast-feeding because animal studies have shown that it may stimulate the uterus....
Although passionflower has been suggested for many conditions, it has been most studied for sedation (restlessness, anxiety, insomnia), usually as a part of herbal combination products. It should be avoided by pregnant women and by anybody taking monoamine oxidase inhibitors, tricyclic antidepressants or selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors. Passionflower may increase the amount of drowsiness caused by other drugs, herbs or supplements. Passionflower should not be taken with antiplatelet or anticoagulant drugs or herbs without first discussing it with your health care provider. Consult your health care provider immediately if you experience side effects."
> As you can see, I am not fooled by the "a.n." claim and that is my irritation of the day. Ok, I'll get over this crotchety episode but I just wanted someone to confirm that these ingredients (kava, valerian to name a few) might be something to question before just popping them on the advice of a midwife. I am irritated by health professionals and laypeople alike who endorse any product that is "a.n." without knowing much about it.Other ingredients (e.g. valerian, kava) have not been shown to be safe during pregnancy.
Posted by linkadge on December 20, 2002, at 17:00:22
In reply to Re: For Larry Hoover or anyone else: All-Natural!, posted by Larry Hoover on December 20, 2002, at 15:57:25
There are a select group of people who
feel it necessary to be their own
doctors.If they can convince others that it is perfectly
safe and natural, then they convince themselves.Natural means absolutely nothing. Spider Venom
is natural. I don't see people kicking back
on that to relax.If it is safe to use (do your research)
and it works. Then use it
Good Luck
Linkadge
Posted by Jaynee on December 20, 2002, at 19:28:25
In reply to Re: For Larry Hoover or anyone else: All-Natural!, posted by comftnumb on December 20, 2002, at 14:33:08
Tried the other 2 you mentioned, but never papaver somniferum, I don't even know what it is? I ordered some coca leaf tea over the internet, because I had done my research on it, and thought if a few million South Americans swear by it, it can't be all that bad. It was okay, but no miracle.
Posted by comftnumb on December 20, 2002, at 21:56:32
In reply to Comftnumb!, posted by Jaynee on December 20, 2002, at 19:28:25
papaver somniferum, also known as the opium poppy.
Posted by IsoM on December 21, 2002, at 2:41:58
In reply to Comftnumb!, posted by Jaynee on December 20, 2002, at 19:28:25
Papaver = poppy & somniferum = sleep inducing.
Did you know that it's legal to grow these poppies (they're annuals) as long as it's only a small patch in one's flower garden.Some of the varieties are absolutely gorgeous & many gardeners do grow them just for show! Check out the images of a few diff ones here:
http://images.google.ca/images?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22papaver+somniferum%22&sa=N&tab=wi&meta=
I'd love to get this variety:
http://www.alchemy-works.com/psom_flemish_antique.html
I've wanted to order seeds before but I could only find them in large amounts. Not any more so maybe I will.
Posted by viridis on December 21, 2002, at 4:32:49
In reply to Re: Papaver somniferum » Jaynee, posted by IsoM on December 21, 2002, at 2:41:58
Hi IsoM,
I'm a big fan of poppies too -- in fact, I just scattered seed of several varieties last week (including Flemish Antiques!).
The legality seems to be somewhat questionable -- here in the States, I've actually heard of local authorities pulling P. somniferum out of people's gardens, and I've noticed that certain large seed companies have recently discontinued sales of the varieties that are known for especially high opium content (e.g., "Hens and Chicks"). But lots of other places sell the seeds, and many people grow them. I doubt you could get into any real trouble unless there was clear intent to use the plants for "medicinal" purposes. In the spring, we have large masses of some of the most potent (and attractive) varieties growing in the front yard (just for show, of course), and I've never worried about it.
I have a friend who swears by poppy-leaf salads for relaxation and mood improvement. This isn't an endorsement (I have no idea how safe it is, and I'd be surprised if there was much opium in the leaves), but I did find it kind of interesting.
Happy gardening!
Viridis
Posted by bubblegumchewer on December 21, 2002, at 7:08:35
In reply to Re: Papaver somniferum, posted by viridis on December 21, 2002, at 4:32:49
I don't actually need any sleep aid; I sleep like a log. I was just irritated with the "I never trust doctors" lady. I shouldn't let someone on the internet annoy me so much but she does. I need to get more of a life and stop being annoyed by a nitwit on the internet. Actually I do have a life, but getting annoyed with internet people is just a lazy habit, an entertaining way to fill one's time and procrastinate other tasks. There are more productive things to do; my messy desk is testament to that.
I was just looking for some agreement from the smart people here.
Carry on with your poppy conversation. ;o)
Posted by BeardedLady on December 21, 2002, at 7:37:25
In reply to Re: Papaver somniferum » Jaynee, posted by IsoM on December 21, 2002, at 2:41:58
These were the ones Dorothy and her crew trounced through on the way to the Emerald City, only to fall asleep.
Let's not forget the old Morning Glory seeds. You can't buy the hallucinogenic ones anymore; they've all been treated. And nutmeg itself is a hallucinogen, but I believe it'll make you vomit for a few hours before the fun starts.
Don't try these at home, folks.
I have a book about herbs that's specificially for women and warns against using Passionflower at any stage of prenancy. I believe Kava Kava is in there as a no no, too.
I also know the right combo of naturals for those with an unwanted pregnancy.
Natural is just another word for the drugs that aren't controlled by the pharmaceutical companies! But yes, folks, these are still drugs. (Maybe if they grew and dangled from the tree in capsules people would get the connection.)
I did drink raspberry tea several times a day in my third trimester. It was supposed to shorten labor, which, on average, is 24 hours for first births. My labor was under 12 hours, so I'm going to guess it worked (or that my genes were in my favor or both--but it didn't hurt).
follow the yellow-beardy road : )>
Posted by Chairman_MAO on October 25, 2005, at 17:49:06
In reply to For Larry Hoover or anyone else: All-Natural!, posted by bubblegumchewer on December 20, 2002, at 13:01:32
A substance which affects processes in human tissue is a drug. Many of today's pharmaceutical drugs are simple alterations (benztropine from the natural atropine) or taken directly from (galantamine, lithium (the greeks used this), pilocarpine (for salivation, from the herb Iporuru), morphine (from the poppy), etc etc etc) "herbal" or "natural" drugs.
The whole "artifical"/"natural" thing is a false dichotomy, for we humans are part of nature; our drugs are no more unnatural than "herbal" drugs, just like ant hills are no more unnatural than skyscrapers. Far from being discrete, we are part of mother nature coming to understand herself.
Posted by SLS on October 25, 2005, at 18:05:35
In reply to Re: For Larry Hoover or anyone else: All-Natural! » bubblegumchewer, posted by Chairman_MAO on October 25, 2005, at 17:49:06
> The whole "artifical"/"natural" thing is a false dichotomy, for we humans are part of nature; our drugs are no more unnatural than "herbal" drugs, just like ant hills are no more unnatural than skyscrapers. Far from being discrete, we are part of mother nature coming to understand herself.
I couldn't have said it better myself!!!
- Scott
Posted by ravenstorm on October 27, 2005, at 10:49:11
In reply to Re: For Larry Hoover or anyone else: All-Natural!, posted by SLS on October 25, 2005, at 18:05:35
Valerian has been known to increase depression in certain individuals and kava kava may cause liver damage.
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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