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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Aadika on December 17, 2002, at 20:21:18
I was just wondering if anyone else on a restricted carbohydrate diet has noticed a significant reduction in anxiety? Because I sure have. (not to mention the increase in energy, boost in self-esteem.......... and, oh yeah, all the weight that just melted away...)
~ Aadika
Posted by bluedog on December 17, 2002, at 21:30:47
In reply to Restricted carbohydrates... reduction in anxiety?, posted by Aadika on December 17, 2002, at 20:21:18
> I was just wondering if anyone else on a restricted carbohydrate diet has noticed a significant reduction in anxiety? Because I sure have. (not to mention the increase in energy, boost in self-esteem.......... and, oh yeah, all the weight that just melted away...)
>Hi Aadika
I think that when people see a reduction in anxiety, a boost in self esteem, and weight loss (for those that have problems with excess weight) from restricting carbohydrate intake I would say that the improvements comes about due to restriction in carbs with HIGH glycemic Indexes (GI's).
I too have seen a marked stabilisation in my mood by avoiding high GI foods when possible.The reason for this is that high GI foods are absorbed into your blood stream very quickly literally giving you a sugar rush but it inevitably leads to the crash that were all so familiar with. (ie mood and energy fluctuations).
On the other hand low GI foods are absorbed into your blood stream over a more sustained period leading to much more stable blood sugar levels which gives you the mood stabilisation that your talking about.I do not think it is healthy to almost completeley restrict one of the major macro-nutrients from your diet (ala Atkins or Montignac) but I strongly believe you should simply restrict or substitute low GI foods for high GI foods in your diet. (example eat muesli instead of Rice Bubbles for breakfast or eat organic brown rice instead of white rice at dinner time and you will definitely notice a difference in the stability of your mood and reduction in anxiety)
By the way you can actually reduce the overall GI index of a meal by mixing high GI foods with low GI foods. For example because I'm sort of addicted to Coca-Cola (high GI food) I make sure that I don't drink it on an empty stomach and will instead only drink Coke after I've eaten a lower GI meal like a banana with an apple or a sandwich made with whole organic ryebread (lower GI foods). This way I get to drink my coke but limit the blood sugar spikes that it can produce. However be aware that Coke has other things like caffeine in it that can increase your anxiety which is a whole other story (see my post on PB social board on this http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20021206/msgs/33407.html ) but I was merely using this as an example from my own personal experience.
I hope I haven't confused you with my convoluted post.
kind regards
bluedog
Posted by highanxiety on December 18, 2002, at 10:16:56
In reply to DON'T restrict carbs. Restrict GI for less anxiety » Aadika, posted by bluedog on December 17, 2002, at 21:30:47
these posts are so interesting to me...you know the remeron really makes you crave carbs...and i always had this question in the back of my mind that if i tried to cut back on carbs, would that would diminish the anxiety? Isnt it interesting that there is also a very low carb high protein diet for kids (i think just for kids) that is also suppossed to reduce the number of siezures they experience (this is also an issue for me now). Does anyone know if there is a high-protein diet that is not nutritionally restrictive?
Posted by Aadika on December 18, 2002, at 11:04:11
In reply to Re: DON'T restrict carbs. Restrict GI for less anx, posted by highanxiety on December 18, 2002, at 10:16:56
Actually, I've read up quite a bit on the anti-epileptic carb-restricted diet for children, and that's what first sparked my interest in low-carb dieting. I mean, it's no secret that many drugs that are useful in the treatment of epileptics are also useful in the treatment of anxious individuals (Neurontin, Valium, Klonopin, Depakote...), and vice-versa. Another deciding factor was that my mother went on this diet seven years ago and dropped from 230 on her 5'2" frame all the way to 120-- her body fat is at 14% (very healthy for a woman), her triglycerides dropped to an extremely healthy level, and her cholesterol went from 189/33 to 125/45. In fact just recently her doctor was able to take her off her blood pressure medication (clonidine)! He was absolutely amazed at the results she presented him with at her six month checkup; what's more, whereas before the diet she was on her way to becoming diabetic, now she's (in the doctor's words), "the healthiest patient I've ever had the pleasure of having in my care". So I went on the diet two months ago, dropped from 244 to 199 (well on my way to my normal weight of 165), body fat at 12%, triglycerides way down, and cholesterol from 152/25 to 130/40. Even though it's not absolutely necessary on a restricted carb diet, I make it a point to jog every morning and work out on the weight system I just bought every other day. And now that I've heard about those recent studies comparing the Atkins diet to the diet recommended by the American Heart Association... well, I just hope that hushes some of the critics up. :-)
Finally, you voiced your concerns about being on a diet that's nutritionally restrictive... well, it's absolutely a MUST that anyone on this type of diet, though I myself don't consider it "high protein", or "high fat" for that matter-- I eat no more protein than I did before starting the diet, as the diet is quite a superior, natural appetite suppressant. And as far as fat, I get about 70-80% of my dietary fat from mono and polyunsaturated fats... I try to avoid the sat-fats and trans-fats wherever possible. Most of my protein comes from fish-- this should make it easier for me to switch over to some form of Mediterranean diet once I reach my goal weight. But I digress..... As I was saying LONG ago (LOL), anyone following some form of this diet should be sure to take plenty of supplements. Myself, I take a natural-food high-potency multi-vitamin / mineral formula called "Green Source" which contains all the flavonoids, carotenoids, etc. that you're missing out on by giving up the fruits and skimping on the veggies. I also take 1200 IU natural vitamin E tocopherol, coral calcium, a chelated calcium, magnesium, and zinc formulation, 100mcg selenium, 1,000mg L-Carnitine (which I've found to be a HUGE help in losing weight), and 2,000mg L-Glutamine (an amino-acid that helps curb carb cravings-- in fact, it's so useful that it's often administered to alcoholics on an inpatient basis in rather large doses to rid them of their desire for alcohol).
And as I mentioned in my last post here, since starting the diet my anxiety level has plummetted. It was literally an overnight transformation from not being able to leave my front door without my usual 10mg Klonopin straight to not thinking twice about popping any pills before leaving the house. (I'm not going to mislead you though, I still do take medication.) I fall asleep at night within minutes instead of tossing and turning for hours, I never wake up in the middle of the night, and I wake up bright and early every single day at 5AM to do my exercise. While the medications have surely been a godsend, the diet did something for me that all the current medical literature deems impossible for someone with avoidant personality disorder-- I actually became an extrovert!
Anyway, I hope I've been of some help... feel free to ask away if you have any questions. :-)
~ Aadika
Posted by jackt on December 18, 2002, at 11:19:07
In reply to Re: DON'T restrict carbs. Restrict GI for less anx » highanxiety, posted by Aadika on December 18, 2002, at 11:04:11
I am curious about the details on your restricted carbohydrate diet. Can you elaborate?
Posted by Aadika on December 18, 2002, at 11:28:11
In reply to What diet are you on? » Aadika, posted by jackt on December 18, 2002, at 11:19:07
Just so I don't have to write an entire novel on the subject, here's a link to a wonderful site that describes many different low-carb diets. There's Sugar Busters, Dr. Atkins', the Carbohydrate Addict's Diet, and a lot of other ones, I believe. I myself am on the Atkins diet. Hope this helps. :-)
~ Aadika
Posted by OddipusRex on December 18, 2002, at 13:54:52
In reply to Re: DON'T restrict carbs. Restrict GI for less anx » highanxiety, posted by Aadika on December 18, 2002, at 11:04:11
There is also research that shows gluten free diets to be be useful for autism and panic disoders. I wonder if the low-carb diets' effects on anxiety and avoidant personality might be partially due to the built in gluten free diet?
Posted by Aadika on December 18, 2002, at 13:59:31
In reply to Re: DON'T restrict carbs. Restrict GI for less anx » Aadika, posted by OddipusRex on December 18, 2002, at 13:54:52
Yes, I suppose that could very well be... I've never looked much into gluten-free diets. Ah well, all I know is that for the time being, I'm happy-- most days I take in less than 1g of carbs, as I require such a small amount to go into ketosis. But gluten-free dieting is most certainly something to take into consideration.
~ Aadika
Posted by Dinah on December 19, 2002, at 16:31:54
In reply to Re: DON'T restrict carbs. Restrict GI for less anx » highanxiety, posted by Aadika on December 18, 2002, at 11:04:11
Oddly, I become Mr. Hyde when on a low carb high protein diet (I think it was Atkins). My husband has flat out forbidden me to ever try one again. Anxiety and anger go through the roof. My family and friends hide and quake as I go by. It does work for weight loss though.
Posted by Aadika on December 19, 2002, at 16:35:40
In reply to Re: DON'T restrict carbs. Restrict GI for less anx » Aadika, posted by Dinah on December 19, 2002, at 16:31:54
Wow... that's odd. Never heard of that before. I have to wonder, though... I know these types of diets tend to cause a mild euphoria for many people...... could your reaction to the diet have been hypomanic? Just a thought.
~ Aadika
Posted by Jaynee on December 19, 2002, at 20:32:05
In reply to Re: What diet are you on? » jackt, posted by Aadika on December 18, 2002, at 11:28:11
Thanks for the site, some day I will try this type of eating. I don't like to call anything a diet, because I refuse to diet. I did sort of try a low carb eating program, but I just can't seem to get it together or organized enough to do it right. My brother went on the Atkins about 2 years ago and he lost 70 pounds, he is very tall, but he has managed to keep it off. He said he felt much better when on it, but he wasn't sure if that was because he quit drinking as well. Needless to say it certainly works in getting the weight off. I always try to avoid eating anything white, which cuts my carbs down somewhat. Too bad chocholate isn't white.
Posted by bluedog on December 20, 2002, at 0:44:47
In reply to Re: DON'T restrict carbs. Restrict GI for less anx » Aadika, posted by Dinah on December 19, 2002, at 16:31:54
> Oddly, I become Mr. Hyde when on a low carb high protein diet (I think it was Atkins). My husband has flat out forbidden me to ever try one again. Anxiety and anger go through the roof. My family and friends hide and quake as I go by. It does work for weight loss though.
Hi DinahAlthough the Atkins diet can work for some I am a VERY strong believer that you should not restrict carbs in your diet but what you SHOULD do is to minimise carbs with high glycemic indexes (GI's) from the diet.
I very strongly believe that you should not restrict one of the 3 macro-nutrients from your diet (fat and protein being the other 2 macro-nutrients) as carbs are absolutely essential in many of the metabolic processes in your body and limiting the carbs will eventually compromise your health. (I think these diets are fine for SHORT TERM use to lose weight but that long term use of these diets will have a negative impact on human health). I know that my comments will sound like heresy to the pro-Atkins school of thought but I wish to emphasize that this is my personal opinion only BUT that this opinion is backed up by scientific research.
I believe that the carbs are currently being demonised in the same way that dietary fat has been demonised over the last 30-50 years and that the low carb/high protein diets advocated by diets like "Atkins Diet" and the "Zone Diet" are the principal culprits in demonising the carbs.
It is now becoming clear with current research that the fat is not so evil after all but that the types of fats and consuming the fats in the correct ratios is what is important (as is evidenced by all the posts that we have seen on omega-3 versus the omega-6 EFA's recently made on this message board). It is now clear that fats are absolutely essential for our health and the same thing can be said for the carbs.
The trick is to get the ratios of the macro-nutrients right and I think that recent awareness and many recent studies on the Glycemic Indexes (GI's) of the carbs are a VERY positive step in the right direction that will eventually make the Atkins and Zone diets obsolete like the Pritikin diet (regarding fats) before them.
I much prefer the views of Dr Andrew Weil in his book "eating well for optimum health" and I believe this provides a much more sensible and balanced view of a healthy diet. Dr Weil also very eloquently explains in this book why he thinks that diets like the "Atkins Diet" and the "Zone Diet" actually work and the mechanisms behind the weight loss experienced in these diets is not particularly good for long term health. Adhering to diets like the "Atkins Diet" or the "Zone Diet" makes things way to complicated and turns eating into an anxiety and guilt ridden experience which is counter-productive to your health.
Here is an exchange between Beardy and myself in a recent thread which sums up my view quite well:-
==================================================================================================
Beardy wrote:
> The Zone books all treat food like a drug, which really turns me off, as I like food and would rather enjoy it than it it as if I were simply filling my tank or tanking my meds.Bluedog responded:
>I HATE all books like the Zone diet books and the Atkins diet books etc. I think you can extract SOME useful information from these books but if you follow them religiously your life becomes a living hell filled with guilt and anxiety about what you eat. I mean in the Zone diet if you even so much as look at a banana you will be condemned to metabolic damnation and the fires of hell will consume your entire being.I also believe food ought to be enjoyed and should be a pleasurable experience. What I was trying to say in my post was that from a purely bio-chemical perspective the body simply sees a molecule as a molecule and therefore to REDUCE the stress and anxiety that you can put yourself through you shouldn't make too big a deal between "real" food and dietary supplements. What I was trying to say is that fish oil supplements can actually be classed as "real" food and that it can form part of a healthy balanced diet where you can have a bit of everything in moderation (including Coke, chocalate, potato chips(crisps), french fries beer and pizza).
==================================================================================================kind regards to all
bluedog
Posted by Dinah on December 20, 2002, at 4:43:19
In reply to Carbs are being unfairly demonised!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! » Dinah, posted by bluedog on December 20, 2002, at 0:44:47
The Atkins diet is pretty old isn't it? I know sugarbusters and the zone are newer. Is Atkins back in favor?
I think all I really need to do to drop weight and improve my health is to eliminate sugary drinks. But short term they feel so good and are wonderful energizers!!
Posted by bluedog on December 21, 2002, at 8:30:32
In reply to Re: Carbs are being unfairly demonised!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! » bluedog, posted by Dinah on December 20, 2002, at 4:43:19
> The Atkins diet is pretty old isn't it? I know sugarbusters and the zone are newer. Is Atkins back in favor?
I think the Atkins diet is about 25 years old. However there seems to be a a million and one modified Atkins diets being marketed at the moment including the Zone Diet. They basically all seem to try and tell us that carbs are evil.
==================================================================================================
> I think all I really need to do to drop weight and improve my health is to eliminate sugary drinks. But short term they feel so good and are wonderful energizers!!I don't think you should deny yourself sugary drinks if they give you pleasure. Don't eliminate these drinks, just take them in moderation. Did you know that the French have a much lower rate of heart disease than the rest of western society. This is not because they eliminate so called "bad" foods from their diet but becuase they turn eating into a social and cultural event that floods there bodies with pleasure hormones according to the following article see http://www.redflagsweekly.com/kendrick/2002_nov14P.html.
I like to extrapolate the conclusions of this hypothesis and say that trying to adhere to strict diets like the zone diet or atkins diet etc only creates guilt and anxiety in people which is completely counter-productive for your health and why these diets ultimately fail in the long term unless you have superhuman self discipline (I definitely don't possess this quality)I'm a Coke (the Cola variety) addict! Yes it gives me an almost immediate lift in energy but I also know too much makes me anxious. That's why I try to take my Coke together with low GI carbs to try and moderate the extreme highs and lows I know that Coke will give me.
By the way, I believe that eating all healthy foods (and some so called unhealthy foods) in moderation PLUS to underetake regular exercise is the best and ONLY way to lose weight permanently. People always seem to want to avoid good regular aerobic exercise and are constantly looking for the magic diet that will make them lose weight without putting in any physical effort.
I believe this is why the modified Atkins diets are selling so well at the moment (I mean it sounds pretty seductive to be told you will lose weight by consuming as much rump steak as you want as long as you don't have potatoes or pasta with it).
People should really go back to basics and put some effort into learning about the basics of human nutrition and physiology rather than resorting to the latest fad diets ( I mean there are books out there telling you how to "eat right for your blood type"....HONESTLY, give me a break....please!!!!!!!) These so called diet experts are preying on desperate people as far as I'm concerned.
Just my humble opinion
keep well
bluedog
Posted by jrbecker on December 21, 2002, at 23:49:34
In reply to Re: Carbs are being unfairly demonised!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! » Dinah, posted by bluedog on December 21, 2002, at 8:30:32
anyone with depressive issues are much more prone to stress brought on by diet restrictions, if this is not already apparent enough, see the following...
Effects of food on cortisol and mood in vulnerable subjects under controllable and uncontrollable stress.
Markus R, Panhuysen G, Tuiten A, Koppeschaar H.
TNO Nutrition and Food Research Institute, Utrechtseweg 48, P.O. Box 360, 3700 AJ, Zeist, The Netherlands. Markus@voeding.tno.nl
The aim of this study was to investigate whether in stress-prone subjects, carbohydrate-rich, protein-poor food (CR/PP) diminished depressive mood and a cortisol response under controllable as well as uncontrollable laboratory stress. Twenty-two subjects with high stress proneness (HS) and 23 subjects with low stress proneness (LS) participated in a controllable- and uncontrollable-stress experiment during either a CR/PP or protein-rich, carbohydrate-poor (PR/CP) diet. Both controllable and uncontrollable laboratory stress significantly increased pulse rate and skin conductance in HS and LS subjects, whereas uncontrollable stress increased feelings of depression, anger, tension, and fatigue and decreased feelings of vigor. Only in HS subjects, a cortisol response and feelings of depression became lower under the CR/PP diet condition, irrespective of the controllability of the laboratory stressor, suggesting an increased ability to cope with stress. Because the CR/PP diet compared with the PR/CP diet previously has been found to cause a 42% increase in plasma tryptophan/SigmaLNAA, seen as an indirect measure of increases in brain serotonin levels, the present results suggest that an enhanced serotonin function in HS subjects may be involved.
Posted by Dinah on December 22, 2002, at 9:34:03
In reply to Re: low carb diet and stress related, posted by jrbecker on December 21, 2002, at 23:49:34
Makes perfect sense to me. That mirrors my own experience. Unfortunately it also causes me to use food as medication. :)
Posted by BeardedLady on December 22, 2002, at 10:45:36
In reply to Carbs are being unfairly demonised!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! » Dinah, posted by bluedog on December 20, 2002, at 0:44:47
> Here is an exchange between Beardy and myself in a recent thread which sums up my view quite well:-
==================================================================================================
> Beardy wrote:
> > The Zone books all treat food like a drug, which really turns me off, as I like food and would rather enjoy it than it it as if I were simply filling my tank or tanking my meds.I guess it sounded like I don't like the Zone diet, but it's actually sound, and its carb restrictions are logical. I like the science of it, but I don't like the poetry.
Many of you may remember how tough a time I've had lately with sleep. I had lost a lot of weight on a protein rich, carb poor (except fruits and veggies!) diet. And I was feeling phenomenal.
But three things happened when "the sniper" started hitting. A. I stopped exercising because B. it was too dark, and C. I started eating bread and cookies again. And then I upped my Serzone, which, like Remeron, causes me to crave carbs. I have gained five of the twenty pounds back in the last two months, and I'm still not sleeping the way I would like.
It took Aadika's post for me to finally realize that it wasn't necessarily the early darkness, the dark mornings, and the lack of exercise. It was the bread! Because not eating bread made me energetic and gave me the desire to exercise!
Carbs increase seratonin, so it's no surprise we crave them when we're depressed. But they don't cheer us up! So why the hell do we call them comfort foods?
I'm going in the kitchen to have the last piece of mandel bread (that's a Jewish biscotti, sorta), and then I'm done with bread!
Thanks, Aadika! Sometimes the answer is in front of us all the time.
beardy : )>
Posted by Aadika on December 22, 2002, at 11:23:28
In reply to Carbs ARE demons! All, and » bluedog, posted by BeardedLady on December 22, 2002, at 10:45:36
Glad you found my post to be somewhat enlightening. :-) I'm not your typical Atkins dieter... I mean, I rarely eat red meat... the vast majority of my protein comes from fish. And regardless of what Atkins says, I still believe that this is a much healthier variation of his diet. I steer clear of ALL carbs for the moment, until I'm down to those last 10 lbs. or so--then I'll start the gradual switch to a Mediterranean style of eating. I don't eat fruit or many vegetables because of this extreme carbohydrate restriction though, but I would STRONGLY suggest looking into a supplement called "Green Source" (go to "vitaminworld.com"). It contains absolutely EVERYTHING you're missing out on with such a severely restricted carbohydrate diet-- a high-potency multi-vitamin/mineral preparation +: boron, choline, inositol, PABA, citrus bioflavonoids, quercetin, rutin, hesperidin, bromelain, betaine, papain, amylase, lipase, protease, cellulase, a proprietary lactobacillus blend, oat bran, apple pectin, RNA, DNA, cartenoids, chlorophyll, cold-pressed borage and sunflower oils, l-glutathione, spirulina, wheat grass juice, sprouted barley juice, flaxseed oil, chinese chlorella, bee pollen, siberian ginseng, dehydrated garlic, and a proprietary herbal blend of echinacea, milk thistle, goldseal, ginger root, gingo biloba, and cayenne pepper. A MARVELOUS product... hell, great for practically ANYONE to take, regardless of their eating habits.
Best of luck to you! :-)
~ Aadika
Posted by Dinah on December 22, 2002, at 13:48:30
In reply to Carbs ARE demons! All, and » bluedog, posted by BeardedLady on December 22, 2002, at 10:45:36
Perhaps we could all agree that, as the study suggested, our reactions to food are different. That would make sense since our medication responses are different. Wellbutrin is a godsend to some and was hellacious for me.
Posted by BeardedLady on December 22, 2002, at 14:17:30
In reply to Re: Carbs ARE demons! , posted by Dinah on December 22, 2002, at 13:48:30
> Perhaps we could all agree that, as the study suggested, our reactions to food are different.
It goes without saying!
Cheers,
Beardy : )>
This is the end of the thread.
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