Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 131190

Shown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Sleeping problems, BP1, please help......

Posted by Mr Cushing on December 10, 2002, at 0:03:21


Hi, I'm a BP1 patient. I'm currently taking 375mg of Depakote per day, 20mg of Celexa per day, and up to 1.5mg of Clonazepam per day.

I just started the Celexa a week ago. I was on effexor for about 3 months, then I came off of it to see if the MS would hold me by itself. I found out the hard way since I slid back into a depression. Now that I've started taking the AD again, I'm no longer feeling depressed, but I can't sleep at night.

I have no problem staying asleep once I fall asleep, and I don't wake up untill my body is completely rested. I'm not currently working since my first major episode happened right when I was graduating from College, so sleeping in isn't a problem at the moment, but will be in the long-term.

I'll just lie there though, tossing and turning for a few hours before I fall asleep. I don't really have like racing thoughts or anything since I'm not really worrying about anything, I'm just lying there with my eyes closed, my body comfortable and resting, and my mind still turning circles, like daydreaming...

My PDoc recommended that I increase my MS to 500mg per day since I'm on such a low dose at the moment and my blood can definitely handle a lot more of the medication. She also requested that I start taking .5mg of Clonazepam at split intervals throught the day and 1mg at night.

If you're Bi-Polar you know how frustrating not having enough sleep is, what it can do to our mood swings, and how horrible it is to go through this everynight. So given my symptoms and my medications, is there anything you'd recommend?

Other than the not sleeping part, I'm starting to feel pretty good during the days. Not too high and not too low... almost where I feel I should be. It's just that I can't sleep.....

 

Re: Sleeping problems, BP1, please help..

Posted by vagen on December 10, 2002, at 8:24:59

In reply to Sleeping problems, BP1, please help......, posted by Mr Cushing on December 10, 2002, at 0:03:21

Have you tried taking your meds at a different time? For example: I take my Wellabutrin as early as possible in the day.
I also do deep stretches or yoga, hot bath, and meditation music. That helps me fall off pretty quickly.

There's always warm milk.

:) Works for the kids!

 

Re: Sleeping problems, BP1, please help...... » Mr Cushing

Posted by Ritch on December 10, 2002, at 17:01:24

In reply to Sleeping problems, BP1, please help......, posted by Mr Cushing on December 10, 2002, at 0:03:21

>
> Hi, I'm a BP1 patient. I'm currently taking 375mg of Depakote per day, 20mg of Celexa per day, and up to 1.5mg of Clonazepam per day.
>
> I just started the Celexa a week ago. I was on effexor for about 3 months, then I came off of it to see if the MS would hold me by itself. I found out the hard way since I slid back into a depression. Now that I've started taking the AD again, I'm no longer feeling depressed, but I can't sleep at night.
>
> I have no problem staying asleep once I fall asleep, and I don't wake up untill my body is completely rested. I'm not currently working since my first major episode happened right when I was graduating from College, so sleeping in isn't a problem at the moment, but will be in the long-term.
>
> I'll just lie there though, tossing and turning for a few hours before I fall asleep. I don't really have like racing thoughts or anything since I'm not really worrying about anything, I'm just lying there with my eyes closed, my body comfortable and resting, and my mind still turning circles, like daydreaming...
>
> My PDoc recommended that I increase my MS to 500mg per day since I'm on such a low dose at the moment and my blood can definitely handle a lot more of the medication. She also requested that I start taking .5mg of Clonazepam at split intervals throught the day and 1mg at night.
>
> If you're Bi-Polar you know how frustrating not having enough sleep is, what it can do to our mood swings, and how horrible it is to go through this everynight. So given my symptoms and my medications, is there anything you'd recommend?
>
> Other than the not sleeping part, I'm starting to feel pretty good during the days. Not too high and not too low... almost where I feel I should be. It's just that I can't sleep.....


Hi, I'm BP2 and I was on 500mg of Depakote plus 1.0mg of clonazepam and 10mg of Celexa at one time a couple of years ago. The extra Depakote *might* help, but I've found it not to be a very reliable sleep *provoker* if you are primarily being bugged with depressive symptoms (it can be great for sleeping during the day though!). I found Neurontin at bedtime to work better for insomnia associated with bipolar depression than Depakote.

 

Re: Sleeping problems, BP1, please help...... » Ritch

Posted by Mr Cushing on December 10, 2002, at 17:32:00

In reply to Re: Sleeping problems, BP1, please help...... » Mr Cushing, posted by Ritch on December 10, 2002, at 17:01:24


I don't just suffer from the Depression though, I'm kind of "mixed". I'll have depression at the same time that I have some manic symptoms. Now and then it will drift to one extreme or the other and stay there for quite some time, but it's not "just" the depression.

I actually talked to my PDoc and my MD about Neurotonin a few times and neither one of them said that it would be strong enough to hold me stable. I definitely notice an improvement in the 375mg of Depakote that I've been taking so far, and it definitely doesn't make me sleep during the day. I'm actually lucky if I sleep period...

The only real problem now though is that I have a hard time "falling asleep". I don't wake up constantly and I don't wake right up prematurely, like at 5am or something.

The insomnia I can trace back further than most of my BP symptoms. It's really getting frustrating trying to get this all right. My PDoc said that I should try keeping more Clonazepam in my blood than I was currently using and to take .25mg twice during the day and up to 1mg to sleep at night. I'm going to try switching my Celexa from taking it at night to taking it in the morning. I also increased my Depakote to 500mg today. I've been kind of sluggish, but definitely not falling asleep here... Actually, my head still seems to be pretty clear.

 

Re: Sleeping problems, BP1, please help...... » Mr Cushing

Posted by Krysti on December 10, 2002, at 19:18:53

In reply to Re: Sleeping problems, BP1, please help...... » Ritch, posted by Mr Cushing on December 10, 2002, at 17:32:00

Hi Cush,

I never even thought of that, I don't know when you're taking your meds, but you might want to try taking the Celexa in the morning and the Depakote at night. Also, maybe as Ritch suggested, Neurontin would be a possibility if it's supposed to help you sleep. I don't know that much about it, but I've read, although it's not a good stabilizer alone, it has helped people as an add on to their current stabilizer.

Krysti

 

Re: Sleeping problems, BP1, please help...... » Mr Cushing

Posted by Ritch on December 10, 2002, at 22:36:46

In reply to Re: Sleeping problems, BP1, please help...... » Ritch, posted by Mr Cushing on December 10, 2002, at 17:32:00

>
> I don't just suffer from the Depression though, I'm kind of "mixed". I'll have depression at the same time that I have some manic symptoms. Now and then it will drift to one extreme or the other and stay there for quite some time, but it's not "just" the depression.
>
> I actually talked to my PDoc and my MD about Neurotonin a few times and neither one of them said that it would be strong enough to hold me stable. I definitely notice an improvement in the 375mg of Depakote that I've been taking so far, and it definitely doesn't make me sleep during the day. I'm actually lucky if I sleep period...
>
> The only real problem now though is that I have a hard time "falling asleep". I don't wake up constantly and I don't wake right up prematurely, like at 5am or something.
>
> The insomnia I can trace back further than most of my BP symptoms. It's really getting frustrating trying to get this all right. My PDoc said that I should try keeping more Clonazepam in my blood than I was currently using and to take .25mg twice during the day and up to 1mg to sleep at night. I'm going to try switching my Celexa from taking it at night to taking it in the morning. I also increased my Depakote to 500mg today. I've been kind of sluggish, but definitely not falling asleep here... Actually, my head still seems to be pretty clear.
>
>

Depakote is generally very good for "mixed" symptoms (in my case dysphoric hypomania). If you aren't having trouble with daytime sleepiness from it, then an increase of it would probably make the most sense. I'm glad that you aren't having daytime sleepiness probs. with it, I was on psychostimulant trials off and on over the last several months to try and offset it. I am not sure whether I was better off with more Depakote and a stim or just less Depakote (this IS frustrating). Clonazepam really is quite effective for controlling mania (I think it is underrated). I can't take any SSRI at bedtime, recently I had a sleepwalking episode with Effexor...

 

Re: Sleeping problems, BP1, please help...... » Ritch

Posted by Mr Cushing on December 10, 2002, at 22:57:33

In reply to Re: Sleeping problems, BP1, please help...... » Mr Cushing, posted by Ritch on December 10, 2002, at 22:36:46


lol... personally, I think Effexor does some weird sh!t to us Bi-Polars while we sleep. I would always have VERY vivid and bizzarre dreams on Effexor. But my God, when you decide to quit it... watch out for those nightmares. I had called my PDoc twice during the week when I was having them, complaining about them. Then when I saw her the next week, she's like, dreams are just dreams... you know that right? I'm like yeah... but seeing kids being mutilated when I closed my eyes, and then having their mutilated corpses chasing me around in my dreams while I was too sedated to really wake myself up... that wasn't fun.

You should have seen her face after that one LOL.... She's retiring soon, but I think she would be extra careful in the future with prescribing Effexor to Bi-Polars.

I wonder if it effects people with just "anxiety" or "depression" problems the same way?

 

Re: Sleeping problems, BP1, please help...... » Mr Cushing

Posted by Ritch on December 11, 2002, at 0:27:50

In reply to Re: Sleeping problems, BP1, please help...... » Ritch, posted by Mr Cushing on December 10, 2002, at 22:57:33

>
> lol... personally, I think Effexor does some weird sh!t to us Bi-Polars while we sleep. I would always have VERY vivid and bizzarre dreams on Effexor. But my God, when you decide to quit it... watch out for those nightmares. I had called my PDoc twice during the week when I was having them, complaining about them. Then when I saw her the next week, she's like, dreams are just dreams... you know that right? I'm like yeah... but seeing kids being mutilated when I closed my eyes, and then having their mutilated corpses chasing me around in my dreams while I was too sedated to really wake myself up... that wasn't fun.
>
> You should have seen her face after that one LOL.... She's retiring soon, but I think she would be extra careful in the future with prescribing Effexor to Bi-Polars.
>
> I wonder if it effects people with just "anxiety" or "depression" problems the same way?


Interesting! You had super vivid dreams on Effexor as well? I like Effexor better than any of the other SRI's for how it helps with anxiety during the daytime. I just take a microcosmal amount (I get hypomanic on SRI's) anywhere from about 4mg up to about 12.5mg in the morning. But any more than that or if I take it later in the day and I will dream up a storm and the dreams are very bizarre and have a death theme in every one of them. It never bugs me too much, I just wake up and figure I had a "Twin Peaks" type of dream yet again!

 

Re: Sleeping problems, BP1, please help......

Posted by Mr Cushing on December 11, 2002, at 8:54:19

In reply to Re: Sleeping problems, BP1, please help...... » Mr Cushing, posted by Ritch on December 11, 2002, at 0:27:50


Yeah, it does wonders for people who anxiety/panic disorders. Before I was diagnosed as being Bi-Polar, I was taking 75mg every 36 hours. If done right, it would rid me of all the anxiety type symptoms. But at that time I could still tell it was just a very small piece of the puzzle.

The dreams were probably the most vivid out of any SSRI I've tried. The dreams that I had while I was taking the drug, however, were nothing compared to the nightmares I had once I started withdrawing from the drug. It was also VERY hard to start-up and to withdraw. But for anybody that is just suffering from anxiety/panic symptoms, it works amazing.

 

Re: Sleeping problems, BP1, please help......

Posted by Mr Cushing on December 11, 2002, at 9:03:02

In reply to Re: Sleeping problems, BP1, please help......, posted by Mr Cushing on December 11, 2002, at 8:54:19


Oh yeah, and I forgot to add that I slept like a baby last night. I guess I did something right...

I increased my Depakote to 500mg per day, 250 in the morning and at night

I switched my Celexa from the night to the morning

I took .5 of Clonazepam spread out throughout the day, and 1mg last night to fall asleep.

I slept soundly for about 9 hours, had no problems waking up, and don't remember tossing and turning too much last night.

 

Re: Sleeping problems, BP1, please help...... » Mr Cushing

Posted by judy1 on December 11, 2002, at 9:54:21

In reply to Re: Sleeping problems, BP1, please help......, posted by Mr Cushing on December 11, 2002, at 9:03:02

I'm so glad you found a formula that works for you- it's exactly what I do (in regards to the clonopin- which I take 1mg in the am now and 2mg at night). Unfortunately the sedating properties of benzos wear off pretty quickly so don't be surprised if that happens. The key (for me) in managing emerging hypomanic symptoms (and yes, lack of sleep is a biggy), is the increase of depakote. This all depends on your blood reading- I go to 1500mg of depakote when things are getting out of hand- I think I test at 85u with 1500mg. I'm also a rapid cycler and removing all ADs has really helped, but at one major episode that doesn't seem to be the case for you. Anyway, best of luck-judy

 

Re: Sleeping problems, BP1, please help...... » judy1

Posted by Mr Cushing on December 11, 2002, at 10:34:51

In reply to Re: Sleeping problems, BP1, please help...... » Mr Cushing, posted by judy1 on December 11, 2002, at 9:54:21


I've tried removing all ADs, but then instead of having severe manic symptoms, I sink quickly into a depression. I just tried that like 2 weeks ago. I really didn't think that was a good move and both my PDoc and MD recommended that I take a small dose of Celexa in order to keep that from happening again.

For some reason, almost all meds are tough for my body to handle. It's kind of funny when you think that before this I was basically self-medicating for years prior. Anyways, my Depakote level is still waaaaay down there, I've only just increased it to 500mg. So we'll see how I do on that and if need be, then I'll increase it to 650mg and so on.

Klonopin I've been taking off and on for about 4 years. 1.5mg per day is the most I've ever had to use up till now, but now that's kind of the regular. I've never found that the sedating properties disappeared too quickly in me unless I was using some form of SSRI. I hope I don't have to start popping handfuls of these pills lol...

 

Re: Sleeping problems, BP1, please help...... » Mr Cushing

Posted by Ritch on December 11, 2002, at 12:11:34

In reply to Re: Sleeping problems, BP1, please help......, posted by Mr Cushing on December 11, 2002, at 9:03:02

>
> Oh yeah, and I forgot to add that I slept like a baby last night. I guess I did something right...
>
> I increased my Depakote to 500mg per day, 250 in the morning and at night
>
> I switched my Celexa from the night to the morning
>
> I took .5 of Clonazepam spread out throughout the day, and 1mg last night to fall asleep.
>
> I slept soundly for about 9 hours, had no problems waking up, and don't remember tossing and turning too much last night.


Sounds great, can't ask for much more than that! I wonder if I should split my Depakote into two dose timings? It does only have a half-life of as little as 9 hrs. or so for many people (and I always take it only at bedtime). All I *really* need the Depakote for is to prevent my temper from flaring during the daytime. I am currently just taking 125mg of the Sprinkle version. I suppose I could start splitting capsules? Thanks for letting us know how you are doing.


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