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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by lawrence s. on September 15, 2002, at 0:25:30
Does Gabitril have any antideppresant effects? How well does it work for social anxiety?
Posted by madison88 on September 21, 2002, at 21:23:25
In reply to Any Gabitril success stories?, posted by lawrence s. on September 15, 2002, at 0:25:30
well, i have been using gabitril as an add on to paxil for anxiety and moodiness. it works pretty well. i would be even better at 8 mg (taking 4 twice a day), but 8 mg made me too tired, so i am back down to 4 mg once a day and this is where i am staying. it keeps me from having panic attacks, although i can still get worked up over stuff. i was having problems breathing b/c of the anxiety. gabitril made it much easier to breath. i have been on it for 10 months now and it doesn't seem to have faded at all. good luck.
Posted by utopizen on September 22, 2002, at 0:49:17
In reply to Re: Any Gabitril success stories?, posted by madison88 on September 21, 2002, at 21:23:25
I took Neurontin, no experience with Gabitril. But I'm glad it did, because Neurontin works on my social anxiety. More importantly, it sounds cooler.
Anyway, hope you are having good luck for all of those on Gabitril. I call my Neurontin "Gab-a-Gab" because it makes me talk a lot (Neurontin's generic name is Gabetin or something).
I couldn't even make eye contact with girls, no I go up to ones I've never met and start huge conversations with them. But I'm still super smart on it, and can articulate well. I just have to drink lots of water, because it dries out my throat to the point of making it hard to speak without water. Salagen (pilocaripine) or Efoxac are good for dry mouth, although no one seems to have heard of them because the FDA only lets the company market it to post-cancer patients. Wonder why, since it obviously can cure dry mouth in most regular dry mouth patients... maybe the FDA doesn't consider people's teeth health a medical issue?
Anyway, try a mood stabilizer, Neurontin's changed my life...
Posted by cybercafe on September 22, 2002, at 8:43:07
In reply to Re: Any Gabitril success stories?, posted by utopizen on September 22, 2002, at 0:49:17
yeah, i love neurontin, but i wonder how many people try a fair dose.... and if there is any danger in going really high (like 7000 mg)
what dose are you taking utopizen?
> I took Neurontin, no experience with Gabitril. But I'm glad it did, because Neurontin works on my social anxiety. More importantly, it sounds cooler.
>
> Anyway, hope you are having good luck for all of those on Gabitril. I call my Neurontin "Gab-a-Gab" because it makes me talk a lot (Neurontin's generic name is Gabetin or something).
>
> I couldn't even make eye contact with girls, no I go up to ones I've never met and start huge conversations with them. But I'm still super smart on it, and can articulate well. I just have to drink lots of water, because it dries out my throat to the point of making it hard to speak without water. Salagen (pilocaripine) or Efoxac are good for dry mouth, although no one seems to have heard of them because the FDA only lets the company market it to post-cancer patients. Wonder why, since it obviously can cure dry mouth in most regular dry mouth patients... maybe the FDA doesn't consider people's teeth health a medical issue?
>
> Anyway, try a mood stabilizer, Neurontin's changed my life...
>
>
Posted by utopizen on September 22, 2002, at 10:33:43
In reply to Re: Any Gabitril success stories?, posted by cybercafe on September 22, 2002, at 8:43:07
Cybercafe,
If you an epilleticic, or have had seizures before, it is reccomended not to exceed 1200mg/day.
Anything about 3600/day is considered an overdose. Keep in mind when they say "day," they assume you are spreading it out over the course of the day...
I sometimes go up to 2000 at once if it's really important. I'm going to try to start taking just 400 every 4-6 hours this week and see how it goes. The only problem is I have class at 9, and there's a hottie in it I can't be anxious around... so I try to set my alarm at 5am to take 800-1600 and then go back to sleep. But I'd rather not have such a high dose.
It has been found in published studies in JAMA (Journal of Am. Med. Assoc.) that anxiety dosing requires higher dosing, but that's not to imply it's higher than 3600/day.
I'll be honest, there were nights at a dance I took way more than I should have. Don't do this, though, especially if you have to be around people... lol... it'll make you stumble and while you may not slurr your speech, you may have slower speech that is noticable.
Dosing isn't very consistent with N, because a lot of it has to do with how much you've taken in the past few days and how much your body gets used ot it... I wouldn't say it has tolerance, but the 500mg I took and got virtigo for an hour over when I first took it is much different from the 800mg that doesn't do anything for me anymore.
My doctor, who's extremely hesitant about Klonopin, seemed to develop some "Rapport" (the goal of any psychiatrist, as they're taught in school) when I mentioned I'll just continue to take N, and if there's ever a serious function I can't be anxious over, I'll combine it with a low dose of Klonopin.
So even hesitant doctors may let you have emergency supplies of Klonopin if you just tell them you'll work with them on a drug like N...
> yeah, i love neurontin, but i wonder how many people try a fair dose.... and if there is any danger in going really high (like 7000 mg)
>
> what dose are you taking utopizen?
Posted by cybercafe on September 22, 2002, at 18:12:27
In reply to Re: Any Gabitril success stories?, posted by utopizen on September 22, 2002, at 10:33:43
> If you an epilleticic, or have had seizures before, it is reccomended not to exceed 1200mg/day.
i thought gabapentin helped prevent seizures ?
> I sometimes go up to 2000 at once if it's really important. I'm going to try to start taking just 400 every 4-6 hours this week and see how it goes. The only problem is I have class at
so you're thinking 400 mg 5 times a day... or about 2000 mg a day? ... gee that doesn't sound like too much as you mention later -->
>but the 500mg I took and got virtigo for an hour over when I first took it is much different from the 800mg that doesn't do anything for me anymore.
i'm confused... 800 mg doesn't do anything for you, but you're thinking of taking only 400 mg now?
>9, and there's a hottie in it I can't be anxious around... so I try to set my alarm at 5am to take 800-1600 and then go back to sleep. But I'd rather not have such a high dose.... when you sleep your body gets rid of the sedative side effects but not the anxiolytic effects? interesting
> My doctor, who's extremely hesitant about Klonopin, seemed to develop some "Rapport" (the goal of any psychiatrist, as they're taught in school) when I mentioned I'll just continue to take N, and if there's ever a serious function I can't be anxious over, I'll combine it with a low dose of Klonopin.
Haha ... as a typical anxiety sufferer, i have about 4 months worth of klonopin saved up :)
don't think i've taken it more than perhaps once in the past 10 months since starting gabapentin
.... is it reasonable to expect to be able to take enough to always be in a state where you are able to approach beautiful women with only moderate anxiety (the amount a normal person would feel)?
that's why i like gabapentin over klonopin.. doesn't put me in a stupor.. and i feel like i can keep taking it without having to worry about tolerance creeping up on me
Posted by JackD on September 23, 2002, at 13:26:36
In reply to Any Gabitril success stories?, posted by lawrence s. on September 15, 2002, at 0:25:30
Go read CalvaryHill's posts. Seems to really have helped him, and some woman from way back.
I've been considering Gabitril myself because apparently Klonopin and hopefully other GABA affecting drugs make me feel AWESOME on my Lamictal. I mean, I feel like I want to laugh all the time, I feel REAL real mellow, and generally great. I haven't figured out the ramifications of this, but I'm gonna go with it. And by the way, Lamictal helps a lot with Social Anxiety from my experience and from the posts I've read.
I wonder if Utopizen's Gab medicine would work to the same effect. When I mentioned it a while ago to my shrink she snaps back at me saying "Neurontin doesn't do sh*t for people" and that was kind of the end of the discussion. I'll show her though; I'll toy with her and bring her to her knees...
Posted by utopizen on September 23, 2002, at 14:46:43
In reply to Re: Any Gabitril success stories?, posted by JackD on September 23, 2002, at 13:26:36
> I wonder if Utopizen's Gab medicine would work to the same effect. When I mentioned it a while ago to my shrink she snaps back at me saying "Neurontin doesn't do sh*t for people" and that was kind of the end of the discussion. I'll show her though; I'll toy with her and bring her to her knees...My doctor went to Harvard Medical, he's a psych. He told me "they" tried it for mood stabilizing, but it didn't work. He then said "we're" finding good results with it in anxiety, and asked me if I wanted to try it. I had never heard of it.
If Neurontin isn't working on someone, it's because they're not taking a high enough dose. I know it's easy for me to say this, and perhaps I shouldn't, but it's just that they way I feel, and the way so many others do as well, in high doses is extraordinary. It's like the most soothing touch was applied to each nerve in your body, and each nerve is telling you everything's okay, and then you react to all of this by talking socially.
My doctor told me some people may respond to 100, some may have to resort to 800mg. When I told him I tried 1600mg, he was shocked, and said he thought 800 was a lot, but then held back by saying, "well, you took one for science."
It worked. The feeling you get is like everything's slowed down the first time you take it, almost like virtigo, but more vague-like. That means you took too much. But eventually that dose isn't enough, you just increase it a little, and eventually you stick with the dose that works.
If someone actually took 1600 and it didn't work, I'd like to meet them. I mean, it's at least got to help somewhat, and should be combined so that you can possibly taking a lower dose of Klonopin.
Posted by cybercafe on September 23, 2002, at 19:46:27
In reply to Re: Any Gabitril success stories?, posted by utopizen on September 23, 2002, at 14:46:43
> My doctor went to Harvard Medical, he's a psych. He told me "they" tried it for mood stabilizing, but it didn't work. He then said "we're" finding good results with it in anxiety, and asked me if I wanted to try it. I had never heard of it.hmmmm.. i hear it ranks about as good as placebo for mood stability but that there are some patients who havn't responded to anything else that it works wonders for ...
in my case i dont know what's preventing mania (low dose zyprexa or gabapentin) ..but then my doc says serotonin has mood stabilizing properties, so i don't know what to think
> If Neurontin isn't working on someone, it's because they're not taking a high enough dose. I know it's easy for me to say this, and perhaps I shouldn't, but it's just that they way I feel, and the way so many others do as well, in high doses is extraordinary. It's like the most soothing touch was applied to each nerve in your body, and each nerve is telling you everything's okay, and then you react to all of this by talking socially.yeah i'd imagine the initial sedation at least would have to be there, providing the dose is high enough....
> My doctor told me some people may respond to 100, some may have to resort to 800mg. When I told him I tried 1600mg, he was shocked, and said he thought 800 was a lot, but then held back by saying, "well, you took one for science."
i dunno.. i have always needed high doses.... i know for some drugs docs say "if you are getting some result, and no side effects, then we will raise the dose" but i'm not sure whether or not that is safe in this case .... where can i look to find this out?
> It worked. The feeling you get is like everything's slowed down the first time you take it, almost like virtigo, but more vague-like. That means you took too much. But eventually that dose isn't enough, you just increase it a little, and eventually you stick with the dose that works.hmmm... sound awesome, i think i'll try taking 1200 mg at once. i wonder what the overdose or kidney failure symptoms are ... proteinuria .. bone pain... aenemia?
> If someone actually took 1600 and it didn't work, I'd like to meet them. I mean, it's at least got to help somewhat, and should be combined so that you can possibly taking a lower dose of Klonopin.i think you're right about becoming accustomed to it -- but i'd like to hear more ... how much of an increase do you go through before you reach a stable dose? i only have 400 mg size pills, ... so i'm thinking of going from 800 mg x 3 to 1200 mg x 3, but that's a huge increase .... certainly too much for one day
Posted by utopizen on September 23, 2002, at 20:22:06
In reply to Re: Any Gabitril success stories?, posted by cybercafe on September 23, 2002, at 19:46:27
> i think you're right about becoming accustomed to it -- but i'd like to hear more ... how much of an increase do you go through before you reach a stable dose? i only have 400 mg size pills, ... so i'm thinking of going from 800 mg x 3 to 1200 mg x 3, but that's a huge increase .... certainly too much for one day
>Cyber,
I'm having second thoughts on this. I did have some kidney issues, but that was also during accutane, and it wasn't too high, just right off the mark.
I think it's safer just to stick with 400 for now. Take it 4x if you have to. If you really want to go experimental, within the net total of 3600/day, then what I'd do is simply decrease the interval times between dosing by adding another 400mg dose. This actually seems more effective now that I've tried it against trying 2000mg at once. It's really a different kind of drug, I'm starting to realize. I thought the whole "take consistently" warning didn't apply to me because I wasn't an epitile.
I only took 1200 or 1600 or even 2000 if there was a party...
then again, I also took 8 mg of Klonopin the first time I got my hands on it, because I was anxious over the fact it wasn't working fast enough and some girls were coming over. I remember up to them saying they had to leave soon, and me sort of looking downward in a depressed agknowledgement (because I was physically depressed from the klonopin) and then waking up 6 hours later.
Then I watched some TV and went to sleep, and only the next morning did I remember the fact that people had even stopped by (when I woke up to watch TV, I sort of didn't think of what I did before I went to sleep before for some reason)
obviously, this is retrograde amnesia. I'm not sure why it's a bad thing, but it is kind of freaky, and I wish I was more mature about dosing klonopin. It was sort of this panic-striken anxiety thing where I just took 4 mg of Klonopin. Literally, it was like my hand grabbed the pills before I could think over it.
Something about anxiety and needing a quick fix... it's like you're in hell, only you have several really tempting plans to get out buzzing around your head quickly. So my brain thinks, what's better, staying in this river of boiling lava or throwing myself into a freezing tank to die as a popsicile?
Posted by viridis on September 24, 2002, at 2:18:35
In reply to Re: Any Gabitril success stories?, posted by utopizen on September 23, 2002, at 20:22:06
Neurontin is kind of a funny drug. My understanding is that the sites through which it's absorbed saturate readily, so that in the average person, a maximum of about 600 mg can be taken up in the space of a few hours; the rest is supposedly peed out. So, taking more all at once isn't supposed to increase the effect, and apparently overdose is nearly impossible.
I take 400 mg 3X/day (1200 mg/day total). The first two or three times I took it, I experienced an incredibly mellow, pleasant high -- nothing dramatic, just an overall feeling of tranquility and mild euphoria. Since then, I've felt nothing. A couple of times, I've taken two 400 mg pills by mistake in a short period of time, realized it, and had no noticeable reaction.
I'm not sure if it really does anything for me (I'm taking it along with Klonopin, Adderall, and occasional Xanax, and these definitely help a great deal with anxiety and depression). My pdoc suspects that Neurontin adds subtle background stability and suggests that I stay on it, although he says that as a mood stabilizer it's generally considered very mild. Since there are zero side effects for me and I'm doing well (with it plus the other meds, which I suspect are the real key), I'm sticking with it for now.
I just wish that, once in a while, I could recapture the initial feeling that it gave me, but I guess tolerance develops fast. I'm certainly not complaining.
Posted by jaby on September 24, 2002, at 10:31:43
In reply to Neurontin dosing, posted by viridis on September 24, 2002, at 2:18:35
I take 3600 mg neurontin/day. No side effects unless I go higher (cognitive). People take a this drug in a huge range of daily dosages. The 600 mg/some amount of hrs. thing I have heard, but I know from personal experience that exceding this does make a difference-not sure how. Great drug!
Posted by cybercafe on September 24, 2002, at 21:43:08
In reply to Re: Neurontin dosing, posted by jaby on September 24, 2002, at 10:31:43
> I take 3600 mg neurontin/day. No side effects unless I go higher (cognitive). People take a this drug in a huge range of daily dosages. The 600 mg/some amount of hrs. thing I have heard, but I know from personal experience that exceding this does make a difference-not sure how. Great drug!
i took 1200 mg in the morning and 1200 mg 6 hours later, but still felt quite a bit of anxiety .... and had to resort to taking 1 mg of clonazepam (for the first time in 10 months, arrg) to deal with my new job (receptionist = confronting social phobia + agoraphobia).....
so i am starting to doubt the belief that gabapentin can get rid of all anxiety in social situations...i don't like the sedation of drugs like clonazepam, so if it were up to me i would try another anticonvulsant, ... but i'm sure my doc will just want me to put up with clonazepam
Posted by JackD on September 25, 2002, at 23:23:19
In reply to Re: Any Gabitril success stories?, posted by utopizen on September 22, 2002, at 10:33:43
Hey man. Just curious, how long have you felt like this on Neurontin? It gives me a little hope and I've been investigating GABA routes of fixing my head problems.
Posted by utopizen on September 26, 2002, at 11:25:06
In reply to Re: Any Gabitril success stories? -Utopizen, posted by JackD on September 25, 2002, at 23:23:19
> Hey man. Just curious, how long have you felt like this on Neurontin? It gives me a little hope and I've been investigating GABA routes of fixing my head problems.
6 months. I've decided to take 800mg every 4-6 hours/day. I feel like a million dollars. No anxiety, my "real" personality shows. I wake up at 5 AM to take 800mg, and its effects appear at 9am. (This is odd, for some reason its effects take longer for me now, probably because of a slight tolerance effect- it should take 2-3 hours to peak for most).
Posted by cybercafe on September 26, 2002, at 23:34:43
In reply to Re: Any Gabitril success stories? -Utopizen, posted by utopizen on September 26, 2002, at 11:25:06
Yeah... i've given up on gabapentin for anxiety, but i have some reason (recent publishings + personal experience) to think it might be good at releaving agitation/making things a bit more positive> > Hey man. Just curious, how long have you felt like this on Neurontin? It gives me a little hope and I've been investigating GABA routes of fixing my head problems.
>
> 6 months. I've decided to take 800mg every 4-6 hours/day. I feel like a million dollars. No anxiety, my "real" personality shows. I wake up at 5 AM to take 800mg, and its effects appear at 9am. (This is odd, for some reason its effects take longer for me now, probably because of a slight tolerance effect- it should take 2-3 hours to peak for most).
This is the end of the thread.
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