![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 34 to 58 of 65. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on September 6, 2002, at 16:17:45
In reply to Re: Please be civil, posted by ZyprexaNumbTongue on September 6, 2002, at 15:57:56
The next step is a block, so here is a link to the civility guidelines.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Dinah (filling in for Dr. Bob)
Posted by NikkiT2 on September 6, 2002, at 17:21:29
In reply to Re: Please be civil, posted by ZyprexaNumbTongue on September 6, 2002, at 15:57:56
have you never heard of the concept of self medication??? I was left alone by medical services and was too scared to ask for mor ehelp for many years and during that time I consumed many illegal drugs in an effort to feel ok about myself and be able to party like anyone else could straight.
Your attitude is harsh and of no help to people stuck in this rut.
Nikki
Posted by Behavioral Control on September 6, 2002, at 20:53:51
In reply to Re: Please be civil, posted by oracle on September 5, 2002, at 0:46:41
Why does Dr. bob tolerate posts about illegal, recreational drugs such as the hallucinogenic ecstasy on his message board?
BC
Posted by wcfrench on September 6, 2002, at 21:38:16
In reply to Re: Please be civil, posted by NikkiT2 on September 6, 2002, at 17:21:29
There are many people who can't "party" because they have problems, and they don't turn to illegal drugs to help them out with it.
Posted by joy on September 6, 2002, at 22:38:55
In reply to Re: why are ecstasy posts tolerated?, posted by Behavioral Control on September 6, 2002, at 20:53:51
If some people have taken ecstacy, that is their business, even though most people on this board do not take or condone it. Psycho-Babble is not in the business of being the politically corrrect police, and I hope it stays that way. This is just my humble opinion.
Joy
Posted by NikkiT2 on September 7, 2002, at 8:22:04
In reply to Re: Please be civil » NikkiT2, posted by wcfrench on September 6, 2002, at 21:38:16
Well, good for them, but you've never been in my shoes for one. I do n't do e any more really, but it helped me through some difficult years.
never judge others till you have walked a mile in their shoes is a pretty good way to think, and it seems you are unable of this.
Posted by Dinah on September 7, 2002, at 9:04:38
In reply to Re: Please be civil » wcfrench, posted by NikkiT2 on September 7, 2002, at 8:22:04
> Your attitude is harsh and of no help to people stuck in this rut.
> never judge others till you have walked a mile in their shoes is a pretty good way to think, and it seems you are unable of this.
Hi Nikki, I understand that you have strong feelings about this subject, but Dr. Bob's guidelines require that you be sensitive to the feelings of others even if they hurt yours.
If you can phrase your responses in a way that addresses ideas and doesn't refer negatively to other posters, I would appreciate it.
Here is a link to Dr. Bob's FAQ on civility.
www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html
Thanks,
Dinah
Posted by Dinah on September 7, 2002, at 9:10:51
In reply to Re: Please be civil » NikkiT2, posted by Dinah on September 7, 2002, at 9:04:38
This thread appears to be one that raises strong feelings in a lot of posters. Here are some quotes from Dr. Bob's civility guidelines that you might want to keep in mind while composing your posts.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Please respect the views of others even if you think they're wrong. Please be sensitive to their feelings even if they hurt yours. Different points of view are fine, and in fact encouraged...
You might want to use the link to read the rest of the guidelines.
Thanks for your cooperation while Dr. Bob is away.
Dinah
Posted by beardedlady on September 7, 2002, at 10:07:38
In reply to Re: Please be careful everyone, posted by Dinah on September 7, 2002, at 9:10:51
I saw this thread, and it sparked some bit of memory about something I must have read or heard on NPR.
Anyway, the piece was talking about how psychiatrists had been studying the use of ecstasy in severely depressed patients and how it was a very successful drug with lots of promise--I think for patients who were usually treatment resistant or bipolar (it's foggy, but it's a memory nonetheless!). A psychiatrist (a prominent one, as I recall) was saying she was very disappointed because they were unable to get grant money to continue the studies due to all the prejudice about the drug and since it had been made illegal. I think they had even found similar things with LSD.
Does any of this ring a bell with anyone? Now that I think further about it, I realize that I'd read the article aloud to my husband while we were driving somewhere, so it must've been in a magazine--like Health or Fitness.
beardy
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 7, 2002, at 12:43:04
In reply to ecstasy to treat depression, posted by beardedlady on September 7, 2002, at 10:07:38
Yes, in fact a psychologist I was seeing had used it in treatment as well as did a number of her colleagues. I did not personally undergo therapy using ecstacy with her because by the time I began seeing her it had just become illegal. This was in Berkeley, CA in the 70's and quite a few psychs and psychiatrists were using it with alot of excitement. It has tremendous potential for cutting through layers and layers of ego stuff and self denial and arriving at a new and healthy perspective. My husband, in fact, was amongst the test group of volunteers for 'upper limit' testing performed by a San Francisco psychiatrist in the early '70s. This means they were given very high doses on numerous occasions - many times higher than the standard street dose. My husband is one of the most stable and unflappable individuals you could ever meet and is living proof that not everyone gets their brain turned to mush.
It's interesting that 'new' research is bringing into question former allegations of ecstacy being this satanic dangerous drug that fries your brain. The fact is, no one should take it lightly at all. It strips everything down to bare bones honesty. You can't hide while on ecstacy. This seeing through your own bullshit can be either horribly threatening or incredibly liberating. Yes, it's a beautifully sensual experience, but a strong emotional one as well. The heart simply breaks open, and some folks cannot stand such intimate intensity. Taking it as a party drug will work only so many times, then intense self reflection is inevitable - that's just the nature of the ecstacy diva, that's just her way. This is a very potent tool, weapon, magic wand, whatever. It shouldn't be gobbled willy-nilly by everyone and using it as a therapeutic tool could be powerful - it's empathic reflective nature enables a speedier cutting to the chase of the issue. Branding it as a horribly disabling dangerous mind blowing drug? Bah! It's just a goverment ploy to keep us scared and ignorant - what better way to turn public consensus away from something so powerful than to appeal to our fear of 'brain damage'. Remember the chromosome damage scare of LSD? Pure horsepucky - but it sure worked to scare us silly from using it. Be wary of the fact that dulling stupid-type substances are legal and expansive ones are not. Again, take note of the 'new' current research suggesting that, hmmmmm, maybe we were a little hasty with our conclusions of brain damage and should rethink this substance. And those of you who have never taken MDMA, can you really discuss this with any knowledge? Aren't your arguments perhaps clouded by judgements based in misinformation and fear?
> I saw this thread, and it sparked some bit of memory about something I must have read or heard on NPR.
>
> Anyway, the piece was talking about how psychiatrists had been studying the use of ecstasy in severely depressed patients and how it was a very successful drug with lots of promise--I think for patients who were usually treatment resistant or bipolar (it's foggy, but it's a memory nonetheless!). A psychiatrist (a prominent one, as I recall) was saying she was very disappointed because they were unable to get grant money to continue the studies due to all the prejudice about the drug and since it had been made illegal. I think they had even found similar things with LSD.
>
> Does any of this ring a bell with anyone? Now that I think further about it, I realize that I'd read the article aloud to my husband while we were driving somewhere, so it must've been in a magazine--like Health or Fitness.
>
> beardy
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 7, 2002, at 12:46:39
In reply to Re: Please be careful everyone, posted by Dinah on September 7, 2002, at 9:10:51
Dinah,
Thanks for your sweetness and sensitivity. You're doing a fine job in a difficult arena. Dr. Bob should be proud of you.
Posted by beardedlady on September 7, 2002, at 13:42:29
In reply to Re: ecstasy to treat depression » beardedlady, posted by BarbaraCat on September 7, 2002, at 12:43:04
Thanks, Barb. My hubby and I used MDMA a few times; it was a wonderful experience. Of course, this was the eighties, and, because it wasn't such a cash business, people weren't selling so much of the dangerous garbage (like dog heartworm pills). I remember sitting down and rubbing my hands on my skin because the touching felt soooo good.
We used LSD fairly often--cutting a whole hit into four squares and using on a quarter or an eighth each. It is amazing how clearly you can see and think and hear. It's like every pore is open to the world. And you could take the tiniest amount and feel so wonderful, so I'm certain benefits could have been found. (I do know a woman whose father was part of those military tests that gave men extremely high doses of LSD without telling them. He was destroyed and remained in mental institutions his whole life due to schizoid behavior and delusional episodes. But bad experiments don't necessarily mean bad medicine.)
I have to admit that if I didn't have insomnia and take Serzone and have a child (if if if if if if if), I may (may may may may) still be using it recreationally.
Ahhh. But I digress. Thanks for letting me know that my memory doesn't stink. I do think that it is purely politics and capitalism that make certain drugs legal and others illegal. The illegal ones are no less therapeutic, and the legal ones are no less dangerous!
I think that's the scariest part of this debate. So many people are willing to put trust that legal means better for you. But alcohol, tobacco, and marijuana remain the best evidence that this is not true.
Again, Barb, thanks.
beardy
Posted by Linkadge on September 7, 2002, at 14:10:56
In reply to Re: ecstasy to treat depression » BarbaraCat, posted by beardedlady on September 7, 2002, at 13:42:29
Ecstacy is an amphetamine derivitive of
Mescaline - and Mescaline is the active
ingredient in Peyote - a cactus used in
Aztec religious ceremonies.Mescaline is a gentler more sentual experience
then LSD. LSD in depressed people can be
EXTREMELY desasterous. Especially if the person
has even a hint of psychosis.MDMA - Ecstacy is mood elavating because it
is an amphetamine, it can deminish the ego
and open the sences. It is definately less
psychadelic then LSD.Ecstacy is an effective short term antidepressant
because it stimulates the release of Seretonin
and Dopamine. The dopamine release is what makes
it very sentual. It definatly does not cause
apathy like SSRI's do. This is why I am very
interested in new Seritonin and Dopamine enhancing
drugs.Unfortunately becuase Ecstacy is an amphetamine
you do develop a tolerance to it's AD effect.
And because it is a stimulant it can cause
psychosis when used over the long term. Plus
ecstacy selectivly destroys seretonin neurons.
(Many causes of depression of major depression have been precipitated by long term MDMA use)
This is well known info.The government is not trying to eliminate
good potential AD's but EX is really a potent
neurotoxin.Good Luck and don't abuse the drug
Linkadge
[xxx]
Posted by Roastmarshmellows on September 7, 2002, at 16:09:11
In reply to Ecstacy info, posted by Linkadge on September 7, 2002, at 14:10:56
We need to bring back the draft. To take all the puss nuts punks in their teens and twenties and get them away from these weird drugs, raves and other STUPID activities. Send them somewhere where there is rugged terrain, rough weather and make them walk twenty miles a day carrying 75 lb packs. Pretty soon the youth of America would no longer be obese, self esteem levels would skyrocket cause nobody would be fat anymore.
Draft women too. They need the military even more than men do these days. All these silly activities of America's youth are for loserdom and in the end equal a spoiled rotten, worthless, obese group of young people with no fitness levels, no goals in life...nothing.
Oh yeah dont forget you can roast marshmellows while sitting around the campfire at night after a 20 mile hike.
Posted by shar on September 7, 2002, at 16:10:24
In reply to Ecstacy info, posted by Linkadge on September 7, 2002, at 14:10:56
Is it just another big lie that people who use X also use pacifiers (for some physiological reason, not bruxism, but maybe, if I recall).
I'm just thinking of possible business opportunities since it is such a great drug after all!
Shar
Posted by Roastmarshmellows on September 7, 2002, at 16:14:37
In reply to Re: ecstasy to treat depression » beardedlady, posted by BarbaraCat on September 7, 2002, at 12:43:04
> Yes, in fact a psychologist I was seeing had used it in treatment as well as did a number of her colleagues.
And this psychologist, does this psychologist still have her clinical psychology license? Or did it get pulled somewhere along the line?
>I did not personally undergo therapy using ecstacy with her because by the time I began seeing her it had just become illegal. This was in Berkeley, CA in the 70's and quite a few psychs and psychiatrists were using it with alot of excitement.
Mostly a bunch of headcase jewish psychologists and psychiatrists who were recovering hippies from the sixties conducted these studies right? How many of them still have their licenses?
It has tremendous potential for cutting through layers and layers of ego stuff and self denial and arriving at a new and healthy perspectiveWow...far out man. Im impressed. So all this acid and stuff you did back then...is that why you call yourself "beardedlady?" Is that what happened to you?
Hallucinogenic drugs have no place in the treatment of mental illness and more times than not, will exacerbate mental illness, sometimes creating a psychosis that didnt previously exist. Any mental health worker who advocates the use of such hallucinogenics should be IMMEDIATELY reported to their state licensing board and have their license pulled.
Posted by beardedlady on September 7, 2002, at 16:46:23
In reply to Re: X the drug of losers, posted by Roastmarshmellows on September 7, 2002, at 16:09:11
> Oh yeah dont forget you can roast marshmellows while sitting around the campfire at night after a 20 mile hike.
Posted by wcfrench on September 7, 2002, at 17:15:36
In reply to Re: Please be civil » wcfrench, posted by NikkiT2 on September 7, 2002, at 8:22:04
>never judge others till you have walked a mile in their shoes is a pretty good way to think, and it seems you are unable of this.
And I suppose this is the same point of view we should take with murderers and rapists? Things are made illegal for a reason, and though we can have empathy for others, recreational drug use can be easily controlled.
Posted by NikkiT2 on September 7, 2002, at 17:17:31
In reply to Re: X the drug of losers, posted by Roastmarshmellows on September 7, 2002, at 16:09:11
Luckily I live in the UK, and I'm not a teen. ;)
Posted by NikkiT2 on September 7, 2002, at 17:19:22
In reply to Adult Binky Market?, posted by shar on September 7, 2002, at 16:10:24
In the early 90's in was kinda trendy in the raving scene to suck on a pacifier.. is indeed for bruxism.. e always gave me terrible bruxism.
Posted by Dinah on September 7, 2002, at 17:29:03
In reply to Re: Please be careful everyone, posted by Dinah on September 7, 2002, at 9:10:51
I understand that there was some provocation on this thread, but please don't respond in kind.
Please think before you post, and read the civility guidelines. Take a walk, count to ten, whatever you need to do.
Thanks everyone for keeping a cool head.
Dinah
Posted by Dinah on September 7, 2002, at 17:33:27
In reply to Re: Please be careful everyone, posted by Dinah on September 7, 2002, at 17:29:03
I just finished reading the entire thread and I must say I am impressed. Thank you everyone for keeping a cool head and a sense of proportion.
A greatly relieved,
Dinah
Posted by Chris A. on September 7, 2002, at 18:39:52
In reply to Re: X the drug of losers, posted by Roastmarshmellows on September 7, 2002, at 16:09:11
Please! I have family members who are putting their lives on the line for <your> freedom of speech and everything else you hold dear. This verbal abuse of our men and women in uniform and our youth will not and cannot be tolerated.
> We need to bring back the draft. To take all the puss nuts punks in their teens and twenties and get them away from these weird drugs, raves and other STUPID activities. Send them somewhere where there is rugged terrain, rough weather and make them walk twenty miles a day carrying 75 lb packs. Pretty soon the youth of America would no longer be obese, self esteem levels would skyrocket cause nobody would be fat anymore.
>
> Draft women too. They need the military even more than men do these days. All these silly activities of America's youth are for loserdom and in the end equal a spoiled rotten, worthless, obese group of young people with no fitness levels, no goals in life...nothing.
>
> Oh yeah dont forget you can roast marshmellows while sitting around the campfire at night after a 20 mile hike.
Posted by Mr Beev on September 7, 2002, at 18:46:36
In reply to ecstasy to treat depression, posted by beardedlady on September 7, 2002, at 10:07:38
This rings a bell with me as well, though I cannot recall where I came across the information - you (B.Lady) are certainly not misremembering.
Though I've not indulged in E, everything acquaintances of mine have told me confirms completely what you (B.Cat) have said. One fellow I know had a difficult relationship with his sister going back to childhood. One day they both swallowed some E, had a long, heart-bearing talk, and have remained close ever since. It is unfortunate indeed that researchers cannot pursue its potential therapeutic properties.
Regards,
Mr Beev 'glad someone got marshmAllow'
Posted by reese1 on September 7, 2002, at 19:02:11
In reply to Re: Please be civil » NikkiT2, posted by wcfrench on September 7, 2002, at 17:15:36
what i'm about to say has nothing to do with a majority of the posts that i read about ecstacy. most of what was stated about ecstacy is pretty much factual information, it might be old, but it is true and there still is a small movement, just like any movement, that would very much like to see MDMA used for POST DRAMATIC STREES CASES AND WITH RAPE CASES for two examples.
but what scared and pissed me off the most were the people who had the time and energy to talk shit about how stupid these doctors must be for prescribing this party rave drug.
i know from my position, now just turning 34, and for ten years now taken every possible medication that is legal, alone, combined, plethora of hospitalizations, etc etc. my life is pretty much done. when i was thirteen i was number 1 in california in tennis. in 1992 i was voted best actor in Chicago. now i'm waiting to get on Disability. I no longer hope. I no longer dream. I no longer can imagine what i look like.
So if someone came up to me from NYU or Stanford or wherever and would have a clinical drug trial for ecstacy to treat depression how could i say no? you can scream and scream but i can not under any reasoning say no to that. what do i have to lose or more importantly what might i have to gain? a nice day. and you can look down on me for that.
the same goes with opiate type drugs?
such as buprenex?
or whatever
it is a sad state that when you graduate to the psychiatric world of the united states, you hit first grade with prozac then instead of going forward as in school you do a u-turn. moving what you think is forward- taking wellbutrin, effexor, lithium, depakote, neurontin, zyprexa, adderal, but then the joke becomes obvios where do the doctors go when the future runs dry?
backwards. where do they go first. those reject drugs they never thought would be used again. you know which ones. The MAO'S. Try some Nardil, then Parnate. then when that doesn't work were gonna take your hand and take you further back. don't listen to what you've heard. it's not painful. you won't feel a thing. it will only take between 6 to 12 sessions. it has the best cure ratio. so where are you know. your hooked to your toe waiting for the seizure to hit to get your first jolt of ECT
so who is who to say what is good and what is bad?
what is offered today is much more on the side of the joke than on the side of being serious.
psychiatrist, and an honest one will admit this to you, they know this much about anti-depressents, bi-polor drugs- which sadly are all used by accident. valproic acid was not initially designed for manic depression but like the rest for seizures.
but the shrinks will tell you "it's all jelly bellies" those are the hundreds of different colors of expensive jellybeans. they don't know which color goes with which person. then when you have to add another drug to the individual's condition it only makes the odds that more fucked.
so for you out there making fun of this and that. i must say i think that you are either very bored, in-expierenced, or maybe just smarter than me.
reese
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.