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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by colin wallace on August 6, 2002, at 13:25:16
Three weeks on Depakote.
Positive results: one day of relative calm.
Negatives/side effects: permanent near-stupor, dazed, unfocussed, irritable state.Depression worsening daily.
Speech/memory impairment (slurring, tripping over words).
Insomnia, disturbed and disrupted sleep (unable to sleep until around 3am daily- then sleep is broken and uneasy;nightmares every night, without fail).
Sexual side effects (you heard me!)similar to ssri's.
Verdict. Bollocks, as we say here in Blighty.
Here endeth my depakote trial.
Posted by Ritch on August 7, 2002, at 0:57:18
In reply to Depakote Dismissal, posted by colin wallace on August 6, 2002, at 13:25:16
> Three weeks on Depakote.
> Positive results: one day of relative calm.
> Negatives/side effects: permanent near-stupor, dazed, unfocussed, irritable state.Depression worsening daily.
> Speech/memory impairment (slurring, tripping over words).
> Insomnia, disturbed and disrupted sleep (unable to sleep until around 3am daily- then sleep is broken and uneasy;nightmares every night, without fail).
> Sexual side effects (you heard me!)similar to ssri's.
> Verdict. Bollocks, as we say here in Blighty.
> Here endeth my depakote trial.
>
>Whew! Sounds like some lithium for you! ;)
Posted by colin wallace on August 7, 2002, at 4:49:48
In reply to Re: Depakote Dismissal » colin wallace, posted by Ritch on August 7, 2002, at 0:57:18
Well, at least we have some fun trying out these things , don't we eh?!
Posted by johnj on August 7, 2002, at 19:11:25
In reply to Re: Depakote Dismissal » Ritch, posted by colin wallace on August 7, 2002, at 4:49:48
Colin:
Since we seem to have some similiarties here is what lithium did for me. When I lowered my TCA dose to 50 mg I still would get a "spacey" feeling in the afternoon. I also had relentless depression. Well, I started on lithobid 300 mg in the morning and 300 mg at night with my benzo. I seemed to have my thinking clear up in a few days. I suggest giving that a try and I wonder why you pdoc didn't try that sooner. Tell the prick that is what you want, assuming that is the route you choose.
I have been better since upping my benzo(tranzene) from 7.5 to 22.5 mg. What ever you choose we are here rooting for ya. This pdoc, med run around is exactly like you said "bollocks" Good luck and keep at it.
johnj
Posted by colin wallace on August 8, 2002, at 3:43:09
In reply to Re: Depakote Dismissal » colin wallace, posted by johnj on August 7, 2002, at 19:11:25
Hey John,
Yeah, I did have a bad feeling about depakote before starting it- that's why I asked for lithium initially.But what do we know?
Halfwit here (me) worked out that the one day of relative calm I experienced was when I was completely free of meds (save 2mg diazepam).Then I took my first depakote in the evening, and quickly slid down the u-bend.
This is now my second day med-free, and I actually grabbed some zzzz's again last night.Today, once again, I feel almost normal.
My psych. has nobly agreed to allow me to trial lithium, but I think what I'll do is wait a few weeks, and see how things pan out.After all, I won't be able to properly gauge lithium's effects, if I don't know how I really feel to begin with!Besides, I really don't have the stomach for another med. disaster straightaway(call me pessimistic).Also, I have some lamictal in the post, so I'll hold that in reserve in case desperate measures are called for.
Thanks for the lithium input anyhow (I really didn't like tranxene BTW...felt like anaesthetic to me!)Keep grinning
Col.
Posted by Maximus on August 8, 2002, at 14:03:06
In reply to Depakote Dismissal, posted by colin wallace on August 6, 2002, at 13:25:16
Colin,
If i may help on something, get off, fire out, take off, cease, stop Depakote as soon as possible (with titration down of course). It will be the best gift you will ever get.
It is so simple, you get too many side effect for the little benefice you get on Valproate. Take notes of your Depakote's venture, write it down on a paper and try to take an appointment with your pdoc.
Good luck!
Posted by Ron Hill on August 9, 2002, at 10:58:57
In reply to Depakote Dismissal, posted by colin wallace on August 6, 2002, at 13:25:16
Colin,
Sorry to hear that Depakote didn't work out for you. My suggestions (FWIW): Explore Lithobid (low dose, say 600 mg/day to start), Neurontin, and Lamictal. Or maybe, Lithobid (for mood stabilization) augmented with low dose of Neurontin (to reduce irritability).
You are not currently taking any SAM-e, correct? (Please respond to this question.)
-- Ron
-----------------
> Three weeks on Depakote.
> Positive results: one day of relative calm.
> Negatives/side effects: permanent near-stupor, dazed, unfocussed, irritable state.Depression worsening daily.
> Speech/memory impairment (slurring, tripping over words).
> Insomnia, disturbed and disrupted sleep (unable to sleep until around 3am daily- then sleep is broken and uneasy;nightmares every night, without fail).
> Sexual side effects (you heard me!)similar to ssri's.
> Verdict. Bollocks, as we say here in Blighty.
> Here endeth my depakote trial.
>
>
Posted by colin wallace on August 9, 2002, at 13:27:36
In reply to Re: Depakote Dismissal » colin wallace, posted by Ron Hill on August 9, 2002, at 10:58:57
> Colin,
>
> Sorry to hear that Depakote didn't work out for you. My suggestions (FWIW): Explore Lithobid (low dose, say 600 mg/day to start), Neurontin, and Lamictal. Or maybe, Lithobid (for mood stabilization) augmented with low dose of Neurontin (to reduce irritability).
>
> You are not currently taking any SAM-e, correct? (Please respond to this question.)
>
>
>Hi there Ron ol' pal!Yes, depakote was dashed on the rocks- good thing too, the lack of sleep was driving me scatty.
I've been med free now for three days, and it feels very strange as my poor harassed brain frantically tries to unscramble itself after years of being assaulted by AD's.My irritability has faded along with the last traces of chemicals, and although I feel flattened and mentally exhausted, it's a helluva lot better than a hyper agitated mixed state!
I don't actually feel that depressed either, but I'm not naive enough to suppose this will last.
My pdoc. has graciously assented to me trying out a low dose of lithium- starting at a mere 200mg, next week.
I'm really tempted to postpone things a while though, as I really couldn't handle being dragged under into another med.induced hades.
I'm beginning to think I'm better off med. free-for me at least, the risks seem less.We'll see.
As for sam-e (I think I mentioned this elsewhere, but I may have overlooked it)I was forced to drop it over a month ago- zoloft fired me into mania-orbit, and ever since that episode, sam-e has a tendancy to do the same.
I agree with your med. suggestions entirely, and lithium was the med. I asked for first off, as I went snarling and hurtling past Pluto.But whoever listens to patient input, eh?
Right now I'm sick to death of meds. and the misery they've caused me.Enough is enough I tells ya!
BTW, as I'm contemplating resurrecting some meagre form of social life, do(have) you ever drunk alcohol on lithium? Doesn't it exacerbate dehydration and cause monumental hangovers??!
Haven't had a beer in ages, and my imaginary girlfriend, Gertrude, says I need to get out more- even if that entails infidelity.
------------------------------------------Thanks for sharing the tale of your misdiagnosis and consequences Ron- I shudder to think what you went through (got up to?) whilst manic.
Hope the log cabin's coming along nicely too.Keep well and stay relaxed.Col.
Posted by johnj on August 9, 2002, at 19:58:06
In reply to Re: Depakote Dismissal, posted by colin wallace on August 9, 2002, at 13:27:36
Colin,
Sorry to hear of the troubles, but at least that is another med you don't have to wonder if it works or not. About alcohol, I used to drink quite often and sometimes too much and just made sure I hydrated very well after a night of drinking.
Alas, those days are over and I can hardly have a beer without some effect the next day. I don't know if you read the posts that Ron Hill and I shared about lithium, but I found out that an adequate sodium intake is necessary. I eat a lot of fruit and drinl a lot of water, but you need sodium if you are taking lithium. Did the doc give you lithium carbonate or lithobid? To me, there is a difference. BTW what benzo's work/worked the best for you. Keep us posted here on how the litium goes! I know how you feel, I wish I could take a med break and just see what my brain would do...I did like the feeling coming off remeron though. All that sponginess giving way to a week of clear thinking and sleeping. Take care
johnj
Posted by colin wallace on August 10, 2002, at 5:28:36
In reply to Re: Depakote Dismissal » colin wallace, posted by johnj on August 9, 2002, at 19:58:06
Hi John,
About alcohol, I used to drink quite often and sometimes too much and just made sure I hydrated very well after a night of drinking.>> Well, that's reassuring!!
Did the doc give you lithium carbonate or lithobid? To me, there is a difference.>> I actually asked for lithobid at 300mg, but I've been prescribed carbonate, because my doc. wants to start me at a very low dose (200mg).
In what way do you think they feel different?BTW what benzo's work/worked the best for you.
>> Well, xanax was a literal lifesaver when I suffered with severe anxiety, frequent panic attacks- took around 3/4mg daily at one point, then gradually whittled it down to .5mg, switched to diazepam 10mg (longer half-life) and gradually brought this down to my current 2mg- next to nothing.
I never suffered any benzo. ill effects whatsoever, including withdrawals or clouded thinking ability....
Tranxene felt wierd though, in a wierd tranxene-ish sort of way!Only took it briefly.I wish I could take a med break and just see what my brain would do...
>> For me, it's a very strange sensation- a bit like coming to an abrupt halt after having been swung around at high speed on some fairground ride.Dizzying. Things are a bit 'kalaidescopic'in the mornings, but I'm sleeping well enough- no nightmares.
The fact that I can even contemplate a short med. break is I suppose, a good sign.
I'll have to take the plunge again at some point soon(ish) though, as my major depressive episodes tend to crop up fairly often.Seeya soon,
Col.
ps...planting trees sounds like a good therapeutic passtime...not as therapeutic as guinness, but....
Posted by johnj on August 10, 2002, at 17:49:52
In reply to Re: Depakote Dismissal, posted by colin wallace on August 10, 2002, at 5:28:36
Colin,
At first I also took lithium carbonate and it did help me. But after the doc switched me to lithobid I seemed to get less of a "groggy" feeling in the afternoon. Maybe a spacey feeling is a better descripton. I actually noticed it more when I went back to Li carbonate, it just didn't seem to work for me anymore. I started back on the lithobid and was fine. This same doc also insisted I take name brand name meds,no generic versions. He was a good doc, but he had a uppty ass attitude and just up and left when he had some health problems. He also suddenly refused to let a relative send me my lithobid to Japan. I had done it for 6 months and with no explanation he became a rude prick. Also refused to give refferals to all patients. He had a great handle on meds, but he had no bedside manner at all. He didn't like ssri's because he had many people that they pooped out on. That is why I am leary of ssri's.
Hope you get to feeling better. I have had a pretty rough week, just wakig up early as hell and really dog tired and bumping into walls a lot. Take care my friend.
Posted by colin wallace on August 10, 2002, at 18:36:59
In reply to lithobid » colin wallace, posted by johnj on August 10, 2002, at 17:49:52
First, and by far the best psych. I've seen was in Taiwan.Cost peanuts for a consultation that left me feeling.....humbled and very grateful.(humbled because I knew he often dealt with people who had problems besides which mine were insignificant-some were waiting outside-grateful because he was so kind and non-judgemental...unlike some of the fools I've since had to deal with).
Anyway, its beer tonight and lithium on monday.
We'll both get there eventually I reckon.
Keep your pecker up.Col.
Posted by Ron Hill on August 11, 2002, at 0:24:46
In reply to Re: Depakote Dismissal, posted by colin wallace on August 9, 2002, at 13:27:36
Colin,
> BTW, as I'm contemplating resurrecting some meagre form of social life, do(have) you ever drunk alcohol on lithium? Doesn't it exacerbate dehydration and cause monumental hangovers??!
For me the problem with alcohol is not dehydration. The hydration issue can easily be dealt with by tanking up on H2O at the end of the evening. My problem with alcohol is depression for the following day or two. A couple of beers with friends or a couple glasses of wine with dinner at family gatherings is my definition of a very enjoyable time. While drinking, my mood is very upbeat and positive. I'm also more outgoing and have a quicker wit with a beer or three in me but, unfortunately, even one beer causes depression the next day. It happens every time, just like clockwork. The positive correlation coefficient is very high (i.e., 0.9999999999999) for the relationship between the quantity of alcohol I drink and the level of my depressive state the next day.
Bottom line: I'm bipolar and, therefore, I can't drink alcohol. Every blue moon I will crave a cold one so bad that I will convince myself that just one will probably be okay, but the next day I always come back to the same axiom: I'm bipolar and, therefore, I can't drink alcohol.
> Haven't had a beer in ages, and my imaginary girlfriend, Gertrude, says I need to get out more- even if that entails infidelity.My experience has been that imaginary girlfriends are almost always correct. I'd be inclined to listen to her (except for the beer and infidelity aspects).
Be well my friend!
-- Ron
Posted by Ron Hill on August 11, 2002, at 0:30:08
In reply to lithobid » colin wallace, posted by johnj on August 10, 2002, at 17:49:52
This is the end of the thread.
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