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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by optimistic on August 5, 2002, at 15:36:14
I stopped all AD's several months ago but I am still on .5mg. Klonopin which I have been taking for about 1 1/2 years. I usually take it at night to help sleep. I have tried to cut this to .25mg but each time I try to decrease the dose the next day I wind up with all sorts of uncomfortable reactions. Dizziness, nausea, palpatations, extreme nervousness, jitteriness, mental clouding etc. Is this a withdrawl reaction and if so how do I overcome it?? Please help.
Posted by katekite on August 5, 2002, at 19:03:06
In reply to Klonopin Withdrawl, posted by optimistic on August 5, 2002, at 15:36:14
I have just gotten to zero klonopin this week. You sound like you certainly could have withdrawal symptoms. It seems that you must metabolize klonopin pretty quickly since you experience symptoms by the next day. (it takes my system about 4 days to notice the decrease).
What worked well for me (also at 0.5 to begin with), was to reduce by 0.125 mg (1/4 of a 0.5 mg tab) every 2-3 weeks. And the very last week I even did 0.125 mg every other day to ease off even more slowly.
I saw one place a mom with a child on it for seizures actually shaved the pills by hand to go down extremely slowly.
Definitely possible to get hard withdrawal symptoms from just a .25 mg decrease. Go much slower and it will be easier.
Good luck,
Kate
Posted by Ritch on August 6, 2002, at 9:39:42
In reply to Klonopin Withdrawl, posted by optimistic on August 5, 2002, at 15:36:14
> I stopped all AD's several months ago but I am still on .5mg. Klonopin which I have been taking for about 1 1/2 years. I usually take it at night to help sleep. I have tried to cut this to .25mg but each time I try to decrease the dose the next day I wind up with all sorts of uncomfortable reactions. Dizziness, nausea, palpatations, extreme nervousness, jitteriness, mental clouding etc. Is this a withdrawl reaction and if so how do I overcome it?? Please help.
Hi,This is interesting. I have cut back on clonazepam from .5mg at bedtime to .25mg at bedtime for the last two weeks. I agree with kate that you need to drop it very slowly. One "trick" I have used the past couple of weeks is to take 25mg of OTC Benadryl at bedtime to help sleep. I don't think I would have slept well if I hadn't added it.
So, all three of us are dropping down Klonopin?
Mitch
Posted by Squiggles on August 6, 2002, at 10:28:29
In reply to Re: Klonopin Withdrawl » optimistic, posted by Ritch on August 6, 2002, at 9:39:42
Ritch, Kate, and Optimistic,
I'd be very much interested to know
whether your doctor recommended that
you withdraw from Klonopin. Also, why
where you prescribed this drug in the
first place.As you know i had a terrible time and did
not succeed. However, I doubt that you have
been taking it for 17 years, and that may
be a relevant factor.Very slowly is the general advice; though
Dr. Heather Ashton and many detox guides
in reputable books suggest the use of Valium
or some other drugs (e.g. phenobarbitol)
particularly for this tough benzo. Another
method i have heard of is the liquid substitution
of the drug, which you can get from a compounding
pharmacist.Be careful.
Squiggles
Posted by Ritch on August 6, 2002, at 12:52:43
In reply to Re: Klonopin Withdrawl » Ritch, posted by Squiggles on August 6, 2002, at 10:28:29
> Ritch, Kate, and Optimistic,
>
> I'd be very much interested to know
> whether your doctor recommended that
> you withdraw from Klonopin. Also, why
> where you prescribed this drug in the
> first place.
>
> As you know i had a terrible time and did
> not succeed. However, I doubt that you have
> been taking it for 17 years, and that may
> be a relevant factor.
>
> Very slowly is the general advice; though
> Dr. Heather Ashton and many detox guides
> in reputable books suggest the use of Valium
> or some other drugs (e.g. phenobarbitol)
> particularly for this tough benzo. Another
> method i have heard of is the liquid substitution
> of the drug, which you can get from a compounding
> pharmacist.
>
> Be careful.
>
> SquigglesSquiggles,
I have been on and off some benzo or other for over 20 years now. I would say on about half that time. Clonazepam was first scripted about four years ago. The "decision" to reduce the clonazepam was mine, but was based on my pdoc's discussion about sleep disruption that benzos can cause, and I am really trying to get my sleep fixed up as best I can. I still think I will continue to take clonazepam, but only a small dose (.25mg) during the daytime and only when I think I will need it to prevent a situational panic attack. The Depakote I take helps that a *little*, and I have found that low-doses of AD's can prevent unexpected panic, but clonazepam works the best for the situational prophylaxis, and I intend to have it 'around' if I need it. So far I haven't had much trouble with halving my dose.
thanks for the concern,
Mitch
Posted by Squiggles on August 6, 2002, at 12:56:42
In reply to Re: Klonopin Withdrawl » Squiggles, posted by Ritch on August 6, 2002, at 12:52:43
Hi Mitch,
I think reducing it to 0.25 is a very
good idea - it is a strong benzo - that
dose being equivalent to about 5 0.25 Xanaxes;
I think it is a BAD idea to take it as needed;
it was not intended to be taken that way;
maybe someone here is a pharmacisist and can
comment on that. Xanax was made to be taken
that way because it acts fast.Squiggles
Posted by geno on August 6, 2002, at 22:15:33
In reply to Re: Klonopin Withdrawl » Ritch, posted by Squiggles on August 6, 2002, at 12:56:42
Benzo withdrawl i gather can be the worst withdrawl or is the worst withdawl out of any drug. Mentally definetely. Physically id say heroin. I was addicted to ghb/xanax and i once ran out for 2 days. Let me telll you. id rather be on the front lines in afganastan than through that again.
My doc gave me phenobarb to wean off both, and STILL had withdrawls. It seems gaba meds are bad withdrawls, along with opiate meds.If i had to wean off, id slit a .25 pill being .12 half for 2 weeks, then down. For example, if i was taking .5mg, id take .25 2x a day, then start weaning, using .25 and .12half of pill for 2 weeks. Unless like me, i was stopped stoned cold for 1mg of xanax, and put right of phenbarb 4-500mg. and STILL felt like hell for a while
geno
Posted by katekite on August 6, 2002, at 22:41:21
In reply to Re: Klonopin Withdrawl » Ritch, posted by Squiggles on August 6, 2002, at 12:56:42
I think I'm actually off! I was doing 0.125 mg every other day for a week and then I stopped totally Saturday. I have noticed I've taken two 0.5 mg Ativan in the last week which I hadn't felt the need for in the previous month. Otherwise I am only on the BC pill, and Vistoril or occasionally Ambien for sleep. I have decided I'm happier with taking a benzo intermittently rather than continuously for whatever reason -- I can't help but wonder if the klonopin has in some way contributed to the onset of my hormonal mess in the last year. I realize it isn't always a choice and that for most people its not a problem to take continuously.
In answer to your actual question: I was prescribed 1 mg Klonopin twice daily last August for generalized anxiety disorder.
The klonopin was supposed to be a temporary thing while I washed out of Serzone for 2 weeks and I was going to start Paxil, but then I took steroids for a rash and got suicidal and my goals all changed. I went down to 0.5 mg in January or so, basically, then very very slowly have been tapering further. With onset of weird hormonal type problems I've been desparate for a long time to try to get off it completely to see if that will help.
The side effects I got from tapering were more anxiety/insomnia and my hot flash/problem with temperature regulation got worse every time I tapered. Each time it got better after I'd been down on dose for at least 1-2 weeks. I can't say for sure the temperature thing is related but can't say its not. I've run a slight fever each night the last 11 days that is finally day by day lower and lower. I can't say it's klonopin withdrawal... but it's suspicious as far as timing. An odd thing with the fever is all year I'd feel hot, take my temp and it was normal. Now it's finally high. Weird. I don't pretend to have a clue on why or how it could be connected. I probably just have a mild flu bug.
Kate
Posted by Ritch on August 7, 2002, at 0:45:49
In reply to Re: Klonopin Withdrawl » Ritch, posted by Squiggles on August 6, 2002, at 12:56:42
> Hi Mitch,
>
> I think reducing it to 0.25 is a very
> good idea - it is a strong benzo - that
> dose being equivalent to about 5 0.25 Xanaxes;
> I think it is a BAD idea to take it as needed;
> it was not intended to be taken that way;
> maybe someone here is a pharmacisist and can
> comment on that. Xanax was made to be taken
> that way because it acts fast.
>
> Squiggles
Squiggles,Yes, I was thinking about that after I wrote the above post. If you are only going to take a benzo PRN, then a shorter half-life benzo would be preferable-especially if you do not want to disturb your sleep with it. I have tried Xanax previously and it was OK, but I think I would prefer to switch over to sublingual Ativan (used PRN only) instead. My reasoning? Ativan and Klonopin are the benzos that probably have the best antimanic effect. Also, Ativan doesn't use liver enzymes much to help eliminate it-so it is much more "liver-friendly".
Mitch
Posted by Squiggles on August 7, 2002, at 7:25:17
In reply to Re: Klonopin Withdrawl, posted by geno on August 6, 2002, at 22:15:33
Geno,
I truly appreciate the sympathy - Xanax was
bad, Rivotril almost killed me. As for the slow
taper, what can i say. My husband devised
the Chunk-0-Meter for me and the group and you
can as slow as the slowest boat to China.I was on 1mg K and took about 1 year and a half
and when i reached 0.125 i had a head stroke
or something that left me reeling for a month;
that is not to add the horrible withdrawal
symptoms previoius to that.So, time did not work for me (i was on 17 yrs);
and my dr. for i don't know what reason did not
give me another drug to withdraw with; but from
what you say maybe it would not have helped.tx
Squiggles
Posted by Squiggles on August 7, 2002, at 7:52:30
In reply to Re: Klonopin Withdrawl-squiggles, posted by katekite on August 6, 2002, at 22:41:21
Hi Kate,
I believe the temperature fluctuation is
a side effect of Rivotril reduction - it
is called hyperthermia when high in the books
and it happens with other drugs as well.Good luck taking it intermittently - i never
did that nor was it prescribed in a such a way.
I would consult my dr. about that.You seem to be doing OK - and everybody's
individual medical circumstances are different
contributing to a a more or less difficult
withdrawal.As for hormonal contributions - i rather doubt
they are connected, but frankly i don't know.
From what i have read on the Benzo group,
clonazepam is just very difficult in itself;
but once you are on and stay on, it is not
a problem.good luck,
Squiggles
Posted by optimistic on August 7, 2002, at 8:14:09
In reply to Re: Klonopin Withdrawal-squiggles, posted by Squiggles on August 7, 2002, at 7:52:30
thank you all for your input..i will try to taper more slowly and see how it goes
Posted by katekite on August 7, 2002, at 9:40:48
In reply to Re: Klonopin Withdrawal-squiggles, posted by Squiggles on August 7, 2002, at 7:52:30
Hi squiggles,
Didn't mean to imply I was going to take Klonopin intermittently. I meant a benzo in general: probably Valium or Ativan. If I successfully get off Klonopin I will be careful never to try it again. -- thanks -- kate
Posted by Hiba on August 11, 2002, at 1:01:47
In reply to Klonopin Withdrawl, posted by optimistic on August 5, 2002, at 15:36:14
Dear Optimistic,
You are on a very low dose of klonopin and I don't think those discomforts you feel when cutting the dosage to half will have any dominion beyond a week or so. Be patient enough and you can overcome those mild discomforts within days. But if you are well stabilized and feeling much better on such a low dose of a MEDICINE, why should you try to get off it? Obviously you have been terrorized by those horror stories of benzo addiction and withdrawal. Don't you have a waste bin in your reach?
Klonopin and other benzodiazepines are much safer drugs if used properly. Using them for long time to keep going well is not an indicative of addiction but a justification. The important thing is not to overuse or misuse it. Even water can be toxic if used excessively.
In my experience ssris are much problematic than benzodiazepines. I have been on fluoxetine for a long time now and I don't think I can get off it easily. I tried to come off it many times but a return of depression was the result. I don't know whether fluoxetine or myself is to blame. I could come off clonazepam easily without experiencing severe withdrawal symptoms. But it is not the case with fluoxetine. I wish I could have come off this med which makes my libido stalled and stabilized on klonopin like you. Klonopin is an effective mood stabilizer, and I think that is why you could left those ADs without falling into depression once again. Remember nothing is worse than depression.
Don't get hooked on benzo horror stories and keep concentrating on the effectiveness of klonopin. It is much better to be stabilized than depressed.
Thank you
HIBA
Posted by Squiggles on August 11, 2002, at 5:56:41
In reply to Re: Klonopin Withdrawl, posted by Hiba on August 11, 2002, at 1:01:47
At the risk of sounding mean,
if you decide to follow this advice
could you let us (and i would be ever
so grateful if you sent me an e-mail)
on how the results came out.Who knows, maybe if you take benzos for
a short time, this person Hiba may be right.Squiggles
Posted by Hiba on August 11, 2002, at 23:54:35
In reply to Re: Klonopin Withdrawl » Hiba, posted by Squiggles on August 11, 2002, at 5:56:41
Dear Squiggles,
Amazing stories once again. I don't understand why you guys find it very hard to withdraw such a safe and effective medicine like klonopin. I am not an advocate of Roche Pharmaceuticals. But when I was on klonopin,( better called rivotril in India) I remember I was better than ever in my life. My whole life was a mess with anxiety and obsessive worries, that made me took several kind of antidepressants and internists and psychiatrists were really experiementing their medicines in me. First they put me on amitryptiline and the dosage was 150 mg. Enough to make an elephant bed ridden for days. But I was taking the medicine and going for work as usual.I kept taking it for six months and tapered for the sake of experimenting another tricyclic called dothiepin. Then came maprotiline, imipramine, fluovoxamine, sertraline, amitryptiline again, mianserin, flupenthixol, and now fluoxetine. Of those benzodiazepines, I took valium, ativan, trika(xanax in US) librium, rivotril(klonopin in US). I must honestly admit, of these all kind of medicines rivotril was the best fix for me. It controlled my obsessive worries and anxiety very adequately and the sense of tranquility made me quite a different person. I could look unto my problems more realistically. I was on 1.5 mg of rivotril for over a year and I think that period was the best in my life. I felt much better, a betterment which 150mg of amitryptiline and 100 mg of sertraline failed to bring.
But my psychiatrist was concerned over addiction and he put me on fluoxetine 20 mg and told me to taper the dosage of rivotril. I cut 25% of the dosage and stayed on it for 10 to 15 days. Then made the reduction again by 25% and staying on it for another 15 days. After the last parting from rivotril I felt like dysphoric for almost a month, and that was the only withdrawal symptom I experienced. (keep in mind that I was effectively stabilized on fluoxetine by that period).
I can give you my e-mail ID as hiba_kalam@yahoo.com If anyone has any doubt on what I wrote please write to me in details. And for those who are on clonazepam and feeling much better than before, my advise is not give up your medicine after hearing those horror stories of benzo withdrawal. Once again I state benzodiazepines are much safer than Antidepressants which hailed by many doctors as non-addictive and safe.HIBA
Posted by Squiggles on August 12, 2002, at 7:49:58
In reply to Re: Klonopin Withdrawl, posted by Hiba on August 11, 2002, at 23:54:35
Hi Hiba,
I believe you. I don't know why it was so hard
for me to get off K. I did not in the end; and
I also don't know if the stroke/seizure was entirely
due to K withdrawal though my dr. thought so.
That is, it could have been an interaction with
lithium; that is why i asked here if anyone
knows about drug displacement. It could have
been extreme heat and dehydration and the lithium
alone. Ahh, if only psychopharmacology could
be as simple as electrical engineering.Perhaps 2 variables differ between you and me:
1. i was on 17 yrs.
2. Fluoxetine ( i think that is what you said)
nor any other drug was used to wean me off.
On the benzo group everyone is encouraged to
use Valium.3. I should not have come off at all - i just
listened to the ideologies of the benzo group.
However, the XANAX WAS a good idea to get of
and my dr. helped me when i pointed it out as
the cause of panic attacks.At the end of the day I had to reinstate and more.
And yes, while on i was OK EXCEPT when I was also
taking Xanax and then I had dyspneic episodes.
In itself, if you take it indefinitely and maybe
raise the dose, the drug is OK.Squiggles
This is the end of the thread.
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