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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by velaguff on July 22, 2002, at 18:12:52
I know they're "off-limits" because of the war on drugs, but frankly, it's occured to me that pharmaceutical opiates might make pretty good antidepressants for people like me with a long history of depression who've tried twenty or so other medications already. Yep, you'd be an addict; but, heck, I'm addicted to ALCOHOL. How exactly is that better? Consider this: people overdose on street heroin because they don't know the purity and strength. People overdose on illegally obtained pharmaceutical opiates, Oxycontin, etc., because the fact that they're illegal, scarce, and expensive causes people who take them (for recreational purposes, or to self-medicate their depression) in ways that are much riskier than the way they'd take them if they were legal, cheap, and plentiful. Think about it. If you've been brainwashed with drug-war propaganda, or you're a little on the dense side, chances are, if you can't figure out the reasons why this is so on your own, I can't explain it to you...so forgive me if I don't make the attempt. I personally have never taken a "true opiate", but I have on several occasions obtained a blissful relief of my major depression symptoms with a drug called Tramadol (Ultram). I take 250mg at a time, 100mg more than is supposed to be taken at any one time, but that's the amount required to obtain relief. It's not a controlled substance, so I was able to order it from an online Singapore pharmacy without a script. Tramadol is an "opioid" analgesic, a quasi-opiate, I guess. I read a great book called "A General Theory of Love", written by three experienced psychologists. I loaned it to someone who's taking their own sweet time reading it, so I can't refer to it, but there's a passage in there, I believe, about emotional pain (such as depression) being centered in the same receptors in the brain as physical pain, and opiates blocking both kinds of pain through the SAME MECHANISM. If one is in physical pain, they don't get "high" off of opiates. The pain just goes away, and they feel normal. That's my exact experience with the Tramadol (regarding the pain of my depression). At least, I don't THINK that I caught a "buzz", but if one is severely depressed, and they suddenly obtain relief, would not the contrast make them FEEL "high", simply by comparison? That's a problem I have with the way AD's are generally discussed. An AD isn't supposed to make one feel "high", but, heaven forbid, if one takes an AD that actually WORKS, that may well be one's SUBJECTIVE sensation, via the contrast of relief. The trouble with Tram is that I develop a tolerance very rapidly, and it doesn't seem to work at all unless I've been alcohol-free for several days. Then, it takes a week (no less) for my tolerance to reset. By hook and crook, I've found a source for Memantine, the Alzheimer's drug that supposedly prevents tolerance from developing with opiates and stimulants such as Dexedrine. Very expensive! You can get it reasonably cheap, but the sources on the web require a script, and I don't have one. I've ordered some "research" Memantine (powder). I have access to a lab scale. I'll be doling out 10mg into gelcaps, staying off the sauce, and taking the Mem simultaneously with the Tram. My MD and my psychologist are both nice guys, but they don't like it when I "move their cheese" by suggesting unorthodox therapies. They're fat n' happy, and they get paid the same whether I get better or not. I'm on my own! The goal? See if the Mem does inhibit tolerance with the Tram, and if it does, try and talk either my MD or my psycholgist into scripting me for the Mem (so I can get it without going broke), and also for a REAL opiate. "Hey, Doctor Fat'n'happy, I only need a LITTLE, because I won't develop a tolerance, and therefore, any addiction will be relatively minor". It's a long shot, but I'm trying to save myself from self-medicating with "transcranial lead therapy". Has anyone else out there experimented with Mem, regarding tolerance buildup? I get the idea that one should take 10mg every time that take an opiate or stimulant.
Posted by hildi on July 22, 2002, at 18:53:17
In reply to Memantine Experimentation, posted by velaguff on July 22, 2002, at 18:12:52
Hi. Sorry, but I have no knowledge of memantine, much less know if it works. I'm intrigued by what your doing, though, so please keep posting on how this goes for you.
There are other people on this site who used opiods-buprenex, some others- and it sounds as though they do not get high on it, just relief. If this is so, I am thinking of going the same route, maybe trying Ultram.
I am just sick of the way of am being treating by the medical system (I just left my pdoc about an hour ago disgusted. He has no tolerance for my suggestions or questions. I ended up leaving there with a new prescription of something I will not even fill. This is a joke.) I am ready to start buying meds online for myself. I cannot be laughed at by my doctor anymore and told that I'm making all this up, or that the medical literature (I have read and brought in with me to appointment) are invalid. I am completely disgusted.Anyway, sorry I cannot help. Let us know how things go.
Hildi
Posted by BekkaH on July 22, 2002, at 18:57:15
In reply to Memantine Experimentation, posted by velaguff on July 22, 2002, at 18:12:52
I've read only a bit about Memantine, but from what I understand, the data on Memantine preventing amphetamine tolerance are all "pre-clinical." In other words, the experiments thus far have been done only on laboratory animals.
Posted by fairnymph on July 23, 2002, at 0:55:56
In reply to Memantine Experimentation, posted by velaguff on July 22, 2002, at 18:12:52
If I'm not mistaken, tramadol inhibits serotonin reuptake, which would explain its antidepressive properties. I have personally found that the day after taking tramadol (for pain) I am less depressed.
I do not feel, though, that most opiates have any value as antidepressants, as they are too 'escapist'.
~fairnymph
Posted by Jodeye on July 23, 2002, at 19:45:37
In reply to Memantine Experimentation, posted by velaguff on July 22, 2002, at 18:12:52
Hello,
May I ask you some follow-up questions about your post by e-mail. Please let me know at scotho@highstream.net. Thanks.
Posted by Jerrympls on July 23, 2002, at 20:52:54
In reply to Re: Memantine Experimentation, posted by fairnymph on July 23, 2002, at 0:55:56
> I do not feel, though, that most opiates have any value as antidepressants, as they are too 'escapist'.
There is much liturature on the connection between endogenous opioids and the neuroohormone theories of depression. And after years of continued emotional pain, side effects, lost friends, darkness, insomnia, apathy, isolation, lost opportunites, lost loves, tears, and lost self, I see no problem with "escaping" the horrible darkness when one can - safely of course. And you can't tell me that Prozac et. al have not the possibility for some as being extremely "escapist."
This is the end of the thread.
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