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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Gabbi on July 21, 2002, at 15:05:26
I'll try to have this make sense. I took an overdose of clonazepam 65x.05 was taken to emerg, and then of course the psych ward. The Psychiatrist I saw there said before I was discharged he wouldn't refill my clonazepam because each tablet has a half life of at least 17 hours so if I took 65 then I wouldn't need any for a month.
I was not coherent at the time, but they don't stagger themselves, I mean there not going to leave my system one after the other are they? I understand his not jumping up to to give me another 100tablets, of course. But now I'm terrified of going through withdrawl, because I was given clonazepam to withdraw from Ativan.
He knew I was leaving the hospital to go back to a hopeless situation which drove me to want out in the first place. I went to a clinic, but I was honest with them and they won't even give me one tablet. I'm really scared.
Is there anything over the counter that can help with the withdrawl, Its not bad yet, but I can feel the confusion starting, and the marionette feeling in my body. Its the anxiety that drives me mad but that hasn't begun.
Posted by katekite on July 21, 2002, at 18:47:58
In reply to Clonazepam half life withdrawl...., posted by Gabbi on July 21, 2002, at 15:05:26
Sorry to hear you felt so desperate. Glad it didn't work! I had no idea -- I wish you had written in and said you felt like that -- there are always other options.
Half-life of 17 hours means if you take 65x 0.5mg pills you will have 32.5 mg in your blood, if you absorbed all that. After 17 hrs you have 16 mg, then after 34 hours you have 8 mg, then after 51 hrs you have 4 mg, then after 68 hrs 2 mg, then after 85 hrs 1mg and finally after 102 hrs you have 0.5 mg. So 102 hrs is about 4 days.
However, klonopin's real half-life is more like 20-50 hrs in adults (it is shorter in children). If it was a 50 hr half-life it would take about 12 days to reach the same level.
So you are looking at anywhere between 4 and 12 days to reach the blood equivalent of having taken it as prescribed.
I don't know what dose of Ativan you are trying to get off of, or what dose of klonopin you were supposed to take, but:
Two things would be unwise:
1. For you to have access to any more than a few pills of anything, for a while.
2. For the doctor to let your blood levels fall to zero: mostly for the risk that in withdrawal you might do dumb things.
You could call your doctor and explain that you've done reading and it says that with a half-life of 17 hrs you would be lower than 0.5 mg in 5 days, that you don't think you'll be able to just cold-turkey like that. You know they probably don't trust you and you're sorry about that, but you are physically dependent and need to taper or you'll just wind up back in the hospital. That you would appreciate it if they would call in a prescription for whatever they are comfortable with: for example 2-3 days worth at a time.
It will work best if its the doctor who originally prescribed the klonopin or the ativan. No one else is likely to want to take the responsibility of prescribing it.
It is not likely that you would have withdrawal seizures or anything like that because you've only been on klonopin for a short time and you've probably now already gotten through the worst of the Ativan withdrawal.
Klonopin helps someone to withdraw from Ativan but the two drugs are not identical, so there will be some places in your brain that are just aching for Ativan, even now. Since you haven't taken Ativan lately that part is currently slowly getting better (even despite you taking too much klonopin -- a set back -- but does not put you back at day 1).
Please do not despair that this will stay the way it is -- it will get better.
Let us know what happens. If they give you a few doses of klonopin, write back and we can figure out how to use them so that you have the least withdrawal symptoms.
If not, you will go through withdrawal quickly, but you will also be better quicker than many of us who spend months tapering. You will be smarter, faster, and have a better memory off of benzos. You will make better decisions about your future and the present won't seem like a hopeless hole. Ultimately it is something you don't want to take (I know you probably disagree at the moment.)
Take care of yourself.
Kate
Posted by Gabbi on July 21, 2002, at 20:11:45
In reply to you are right., posted by katekite on July 21, 2002, at 18:47:58
Kate, thank-you so much, first for such a thorough answer, and also for mentioning that part of my brain might still be aching for Ativan.
I had no idea, I'd been on 6 mgs for 10 years, and remember the other dimension of horror when I tried to withdraw. I made the assumption that the clonazepam covered all the bases. And therefore once again believed my hopeless delusions were reality....Another thing I love about this site, you know someones been there when they say things like "doing something dumb" So many other people like to dance around things.
Very much appreciated
Thank-you, for the voice of sanity.
Gabbi
Posted by katekite on July 21, 2002, at 21:26:04
In reply to Re: you are right. » katekite, posted by Gabbi on July 21, 2002, at 20:11:45
Yeah -- I've tried Valium, Ativan, and Klonopin (and Sonata and Ambien which aren't that different). They all seem a little different in their effect to me, they aren't interchangeable. I tried taking Sonata (benzodiazepine type sleep aid) one time (when I was being dumb) to see if it would calm me down. Hah, it made the whole room all quiet like I'd put in ear plugs, but I was still anxious. They do uptake studies in rats and show each benzo has its own profile of where it concentrates in the brain. So yes you are still in withdrawal from Ativan and your brain aches.
I've been trying to get off of klonopin for a long time now. I'm down to 0.125 mg per day, can you believe I can feel that tiny amount? I can, and never forget to take it. I think especially when people taper slowly they can feel tiny amounts: the one benefit of quick tapering is not feeling addicted to 0.125 mg of anything, LOL. I definitely notice I'm a lot sharper mentally than when I was on even 0.5 mg a day. It's kind of like when you go from having dry itchy eyes to putting in eyedrops: its all a little crisper and clearer.
Take care,
kate
Posted by Pattisun on July 22, 2002, at 18:46:11
In reply to Re: you are right., posted by katekite on July 21, 2002, at 21:26:04
Kate,
You are so wise and supportive. I am sorry to hear Gabbi is having such a rough time.
My new psych feels my 7 year use of Klonopin is the cause of all my problems (I wish it were that simple, but maybe?) . . . .
How long have you been withdrawing from Klonopin? He gave me a 13 week taper schedule and Neurontin to take. I haven't started the Neurontin yet. And, I'm scared to death to give up my little yellow pills :(
Let me know how long it took you to get down so far. And, do you have panic attacks at that dosage?
Best to Gabbi and thanks Kate,
Patti
> Yeah -- I've tried Valium, Ativan, and Klonopin (and Sonata and Ambien which aren't that different). They all seem a little different in their effect to me, they aren't interchangeable. I tried taking Sonata (benzodiazepine type sleep aid) one time (when I was being dumb) to see if it would calm me down. Hah, it made the whole room all quiet like I'd put in ear plugs, but I was still anxious. They do uptake studies in rats and show each benzo has its own profile of where it concentrates in the brain. So yes you are still in withdrawal from Ativan and your brain aches.
>
> I've been trying to get off of klonopin for a long time now. I'm down to 0.125 mg per day, can you believe I can feel that tiny amount? I can, and never forget to take it. I think especially when people taper slowly they can feel tiny amounts: the one benefit of quick tapering is not feeling addicted to 0.125 mg of anything, LOL. I definitely notice I'm a lot sharper mentally than when I was on even 0.5 mg a day. It's kind of like when you go from having dry itchy eyes to putting in eyedrops: its all a little crisper and clearer.
>
> Take care,
>
> kate
Posted by katekite on July 22, 2002, at 22:28:30
In reply to Re: you are right.-Kate? , posted by Pattisun on July 22, 2002, at 18:46:11
Wise. Wow. If only you knew me better. LOL.
Um, I've been trying to get off klonopin since january. But I've had several times where I stopped tapering for one reason or another. I started off at 2mgs a day. I'm very very sensitive and that was a big dose for me but I was very used to it (had been on it 5-6 months). I got down to 0.5 mg pretty fast, maybe 4 weeks. Then I went to 0.375, then 0.25, then 0.125. Each time even at the tiny decrease I had about 4 days of partial insomnia about 4 days after I went down. Then my sleep normalized again by about 10 days. During those 'withdrawal' days I felt mildly jittery. I thankfully have never had to deal with panic attacks (actually I've had one but long ago) so I can't comment on that.
I have heard: A quarter of the dose no more often than once a month. Although that's if you aren't taking anything else at all. Hopefully with Neurontin it will be not too hard.
I think it could be done in 13 weeks with Neurontin. Hard, but possible.
In a way I wish someone had stolen my meds or something as it feels really dumb to be taking such a little shred of a dose still -- I can't even complain about withdrawal at this wimpy a dose, LOL.
kate
Posted by katekite on July 23, 2002, at 17:04:58
In reply to Re: you are right.-Kate? , posted by katekite on July 22, 2002, at 22:28:30
Posted by Gabbi on July 23, 2002, at 18:27:30
In reply to how is withdrawal going, gabbi? (nm), posted by katekite on July 23, 2002, at 17:04:58
Thank-you for asking Kate
I'm going to be careful with this because its an hour by hour thing, BUT if I'm fine tomorrow I will post this by itself.
A friend of mine's husband (ex) had a heroin habit and was advised to take megadoses of Vitamin C powder and he quit heroin with no withdrawl (I witnessed this) he had a bit of insomnia that was it. This doctor said it works with almost anything.
Well I've tried Benzo' withdrawl before and it was well..lets just say I was unsuccessful each time. And I was given much herbal and vitamin advice. I still couldn't do it.
Since I've been discharged I've been taking 7000 mgs of buffered C powder in divided doses and I'm fine, just a bit twitchy, and I fuzzy vision and that I can handle.
I always believe these miracle cures can happen for other people but am surprised if they work for me. So far so good.....
I'll keep you posted. And Thanks again, for being so conscientious.
Posted by Pattisun on July 24, 2002, at 13:10:22
In reply to how is withdrawal going, gabbi? (nm), posted by katekite on July 23, 2002, at 17:04:58
Go Gabbi!!
I'm pulling for you. Thank you for sharing that advice--(I remember vitamin C worked once when my mouth was all swollen with an absessed tooth and I didn't have any health insurance). I'm taking your advice, I hope it works for you.
Sending prayers and positive energy your way,
Patti
Posted by Gabbi on July 24, 2002, at 21:40:54
In reply to Sending you positive energy Gabbi :), posted by Pattisun on July 24, 2002, at 13:10:22
Its odd to find a little bit of heaven on a website devoted to depression.
Patti Thank-you so much for the surprise note.
The timing was charmed.
I was feeling really awful (not withdrawl awful)
but family induced "its time you grew up and stop putting us through this and realize other people have hard days too...while going through withdrawl sort of awful"Yes it was a choice of mine to give up my independence, friends, a place where I could at least get a decent cup of coffee, to reside on a couch in a room with no door and with purple shag carpeting on the floor to add to the insult, in my Mom's house.
And of course as I'm sure you know Patti, medications which need to be pleaded for, refilled, taken with you everywhere, make you fat and your hair fall out are really just taking the easy way out...
Wow I sure no how to delete positive energy faster than you can say ZANAX. Sorry
Anyway, I truly believe its the vitamin C. Its been over a week I just realized and the only side effect has been insomnia, which compared to my previous attempts at withdrawl is a walk in the park.
I don't think its my imagination (even if it is its working) because I've taken prescription drugs to ease the withdrawl before and fully expected them to work and they didn't.
Sorry to follow such a lovely note with such an EEyore response.
A very grateful
Gabbi
Posted by Pattisun on July 25, 2002, at 1:32:41
In reply to Re: Sending you positive energy Gabbi :) » Pattisun, posted by Gabbi on July 24, 2002, at 21:40:54
((((((Gabbi))))),
Taking medications of all kinds is a terrible thing because of all the side affects. Going off the medications is even harder because of the withdrawal.
Trying to live life free of drugs is a battle every day. Unless they have walked in our shoes, no one else can understand how hard this is. My family is pretty good but I know they sometimes can't take me either!
Gabbi, I am sure there are many here that wish you the best. You should know we ALL understand.
I took a bunch of extra Cs today, so I'm hoping that will help me. I think I need to take some Bs too, someone said that will help with the extra stress. I'm currently detoxing off of Paxil and Klonopin (7 years of use) and trying not to take the Neurontin the psych wants me to take. I'm tired of the ups and downs from the meds......
Hang in there and good luck to all of us,
Patti
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