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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by BekkaH on July 18, 2002, at 17:49:54
Hello to fellow PMS sufferers:
I've read that Chasteberry (Vitex Agnus Castus) is supposed to be quite effective for PMS. There are various explanations for its efficacy, one of which is that it supposedly lowers prolactin, which can be the culprit for some women.
I believe that the cause of PMS is not the same for everyone, and that's why these remedies don't work for everyone. I know that SSRIs don't help me, before, during or after my period. SSRIs actually exacerbate my PMS. I've read that some SSRIs, like Paxil and Celexa, raise Prolactin levels, so perhaps that is part of the problem for me.
Has anyone tried Chasteberry/Vitex Agnus Castus? I'd like to hear about your experiences, good, bad or indifferent.
Posted by hildi on July 18, 2002, at 19:02:01
In reply to PMS - Chasteberry/Vitex Agnus Castus, posted by BekkaH on July 18, 2002, at 17:49:54
> Hello to fellow PMS sufferers:
>
> I've read that Chasteberry (Vitex Agnus Castus) is supposed to be quite effective for PMS. There are various explanations for its efficacy, one of which is that it supposedly lowers prolactin, which can be the culprit for some women.
>
> I believe that the cause of PMS is not the same for everyone, and that's why these remedies don't work for everyone. I know that SSRIs don't help me, before, during or after my period. SSRIs actually exacerbate my PMS. I've read that some SSRIs, like Paxil and Celexa, raise Prolactin levels, so perhaps that is part of the problem for me.
>
> Has anyone tried Chasteberry/Vitex Agnus Castus? I'd like to hear about your experiences, good, bad or indifferent.Hi. I have used vitex before, for periods of time and did seem to notice a diffence.
However, I am not using it now because my problems are much more severe than before- what started out as a bad cases of PMS has turned into what may be menopause- my hormones, my endocrine system, and my thyroid are all messed up-I think!Did you say the SSRI's icrease prolactin?
What does prolactin do? You know- when I first started SSRI's I never had PMS, then, over time, the PMS got slowly worse, then unbearable.
For a good while, though, I did find some releif from vitex.
Hildi
Posted by katekite on July 18, 2002, at 19:46:39
In reply to PMS - Chasteberry/Vitex Agnus Castus, posted by BekkaH on July 18, 2002, at 17:49:54
Hi bekka,
Wish I knew. I agree with you about PMS not being as simple as estrogen or serotonin for some people.
I'm curious if you don't mind what your major symptoms of pms are? Like I'm curious if any particular symptoms are more common to the people who respond to ssris or estrogen or say, chasteberry.
kate
Posted by Shawn. T. on July 19, 2002, at 18:16:25
In reply to PMS - Chasteberry/Vitex Agnus Castus, posted by BekkaH on July 18, 2002, at 17:49:54
I'm pretty sure that I do not suffer from PMS, but I may be able to help you some. SSRI's probably stimulate prolactin release by increasing the activation of 5-HT2c receptors. They would definitely add to your PMS symptoms.
Vitex agnus does seem to help with PMS in some women. A lot of the mood changes seen in PMS are probably due to falling dopamine levels. Always remember to make sure that your prescription meds don't interact with herbal remedies.
http://www.womenshealth.com/Health_Flash/hf52.htmlhttp://www.personalhealthzone.com/herbal_medicine/side_effects/chasteberry_side_effects.html
http://www4.infotrieve.com/search/databases/detailsNew.asp?artID=29504016
http://www4.infotrieve.com/search/databases/detailsNew.asp?artID=16340677
Shawn
> Hello to fellow PMS sufferers:
>
> I've read that Chasteberry (Vitex Agnus Castus) is supposed to be quite effective for PMS. There are various explanations for its efficacy, one of which is that it supposedly lowers prolactin, which can be the culprit for some women.
>
> I believe that the cause of PMS is not the same for everyone, and that's why these remedies don't work for everyone. I know that SSRIs don't help me, before, during or after my period. SSRIs actually exacerbate my PMS. I've read that some SSRIs, like Paxil and Celexa, raise Prolactin levels, so perhaps that is part of the problem for me.
>
> Has anyone tried Chasteberry/Vitex Agnus Castus? I'd like to hear about your experiences, good, bad or indifferent.
Posted by BekkaH on July 19, 2002, at 20:16:45
In reply to Re: PMS - Chasteberry/Vitex Agnus Castus, posted by katekite on July 18, 2002, at 19:46:39
> I'm curious if you don't mind what your major symptoms of pms are? Like I'm curious if any particular symptoms are more common to the people who respond to ssris or estrogen or say, chasteberry.
>
*************************************************
Hi Kate,Well, some months the irritability and tension are worse, and some months the fatigue and depression are worse. This month I have both sets of symptoms. I don't do well on ssri's in general, and they do not help my pms either. If anything, ssri's severely exacerbate my depression and fatigue. I haven't tried estrogen yet. I understand that, for some women, estrogen is not the problem as much as the estrogen:progesterone ratio (i.e., there isn't enough progesterone, so the estrogen is unopposed). In addition to lowering prolactin levels, apparently chasteberry can stimulate the production of more LH (luteinizing hormone), which, in turn, can stimulate the production of more progesterone; however, I think you'd probably have to take chasteberry for a good part of the month and not just around your period.
Yes, this is so complicated, and just as with antidepressants, PMS doesn't seem to have a "one size fits all" treatment.
Bekka
Posted by BekkaH on July 19, 2002, at 20:49:11
In reply to Re: PMS - Chasteberry/Vitex Agnus Castus, posted by hildi on July 18, 2002, at 19:02:01
> Did you say the SSRI's icrease prolactin?
> What does prolactin do? You know- when I first started SSRI's I never had PMS, then, over time, the PMS got slowly worse, then unbearable.
> For a good while, though, I did find some releif from vitex.
> Hildi***********************************************
Hi Hildi,
Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say that ALL SSRI's raise prolactin. The ones I've read about raising prolactin are Paxil and Celexa. I have not taken any anti-psychotics, but apparently they are notorious for raising prolactin levels. It seems that many medicines that lower dopamine will raise prolactin, and vice versa.
Prolactin seems to have a number of functions, but I think its primary action in humans is regulation of milk production. I think prolactin release can also occur in response to stress, and in some species it may be involved in immune function. When I have been on medicines that increase prolactin, my premenstrual breast pain has been much worse, and I think that might be due to prolactin's stimulation of breast tissue.
Bekka
Posted by BekkaH on July 19, 2002, at 20:50:26
In reply to Re: PMS - Chasteberry/Vitex Agnus Castus » BekkaH, posted by Shawn. T. on July 19, 2002, at 18:16:25
Hi Shawn,
Thank you for your help and for all those links!
Bekka
Posted by BekkaH on July 19, 2002, at 21:05:26
In reply to PMS - Chasteberry/Vitex Agnus Castus-Shawn, posted by BekkaH on July 19, 2002, at 20:50:26
I also have a lot of joint pain and muscle pain when I have PMS. What do you think might cause that?
Posted by hildi on July 20, 2002, at 11:02:26
In reply to PMS - Chasteberry/Vitex Agnus Castus-Hildi, posted by BekkaH on July 19, 2002, at 20:49:11
Hi, and thanks. Does prolactin also affect estrogen and progesterone levels?
I wonder if zoloft affects prolactin, too. You mentioned it's affected by Paxil (and was it celexa, too?) Maybe it's an SSRI thing.
Hildi
Posted by BekkaH on July 20, 2002, at 22:20:28
In reply to Re: prolactinBekka, posted by hildi on July 20, 2002, at 11:02:26
> Hi, and thanks. Does prolactin also affect estrogen and progesterone levels?
> I wonder if zoloft affects prolactin, too. You mentioned it's affected by Paxil (and was it celexa, too?) Maybe it's an SSRI thing.
> Hildi********************************************
Hi. I believe that prolactin does affect progesterone and possibly estrogen levels, but I will have to look it up to be sure. I'm not sure about Zoloft affecting prolactin. If it does, it might be mentioned in the monograph put out by the makers of Zoloft (and the info. in the PDR).
I'm convinced that if men had PMS, a cure for it would have been found by now.
Bekka
Posted by hildi on July 21, 2002, at 16:25:44
In reply to prolactin - hildi, posted by BekkaH on July 20, 2002, at 22:20:28
Thanks Bekka, and I bet your right about men and PMS! There would most definately have been 'a cure' by now!
Hildi
Posted by AtomicTom on April 28, 2003, at 20:22:58
In reply to prolactin - hildi, posted by BekkaH on July 20, 2002, at 22:20:28
Note, there are reports of agnus castus (Vitex) actually _increasing_ prolactin secretion. It appears to be _highly_ dose dependant -- taking too much (or too little) could have the exact opposite effect of what you desire.
http://ca.geocities.com/chris_anthistle/prolactinoma/herbal.html
http://www.endocrinology.org/SFE/BES2002/posters1.htm (see P39, Hyperprolactinaemia in a patient taking the herbal remedy Agnus Castus. Harding JA, Sheridan B & Atkinson AB)
This is the end of the thread.
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