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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 4 of 4. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by DiscoPuppy on June 21, 2002, at 13:48:39
And if so, what conditions must be met in order for a doctor to write up a script of Desoxyn for his/her patient?
To date, I've tried Adderall, Dexedrine (most recently) and Ritalin (as a kid) - and I think it's mostly the "curiousity factor" that makes me want to compare the positive effects of Desoxyn to medication I'm currently on and have been on before.
I previously mentioned that there is still somewhat of a stigma attached with Dexedrine versus Ritalin or even Adderall. I now understand that this is because there is a higher potential to abuse Dexedrine (d-isomer considered to be more "fun"). But this doesn't even come close to what I perceive as this overwhelming taboo on the whole Desoxyn med. My drug doctor (I have two doctors, a drug doctor and a phychiatrist that communicate with each other) and I talked in great lengths regarding the appropriate treatment for my severe ADHD, explaining to me how certain stimulants have different CNS to peripheral stimulation ratios; but never did he mention Desoxyn, which is thought to have the most desirable ratio.
Why is this? Is it solely the generic name that the doctors are afraid of, or is there something more to it? How does one approach a doctor about a trial on the thing without sounding like a druggie?
Thanks,
-puppy-
Posted by fachad on June 22, 2002, at 23:16:34
In reply to Is Desoxyn still even prescribed?, posted by DiscoPuppy on June 21, 2002, at 13:48:39
Yikes, I'd be afraid to ask my doc for methamphetamine. You are likely to find yourself in the "Controlled Substance Catch-22":
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020416/msgs/103521.html
which is not easy to get out of once you get in.
In regards to your question, it must be prescribed, because they are still manufacturing it, but I doubt its prescribed very often these days. As you said, there is a huge dismal taboo on it because of the street use.
This taboo is also partly a "CYA" thing with doctors. All doctors are constantly under some level of surveillance. They are being monitored by the DEA, the State Board of Medical Examiners, and local pharmacists.
Those people are watching for signs of illegal activity, like "speed clinics", or "drug diversion", or "irregular prescribing of controlled substances".
If they notice anything they think is unusual, they can audit the doctor, review his records, and if anything is out of order with the controlled substance prescribing they can suspend or revoke his M.D. and even press criminal charges.
Writing an RX for Desoxyn would not pass unnoticed. It is strictly legal and proper for a doctor to write for it, but it will raise a red flag.
So I think most docs consider the slight advantage of Desoxyn in peripheral vs. central effects to be outweighed by the potential for abuse, diversion, and getting their own butts in hot water.
As to what it would take to have it prescribed, I'd bet that some docs just never would prescribe it, period. Of the docs that would, you would have to have severe impairment of functioning and documented medical inability to tolerate Ritalin, Adderall, or Dexedrine, and have tried and failed trials of Wellbutrin, desipramine, and pemoline. That would give them enough of a paper trail to justify the prescription if they were audited…but no one likes to be audited, even if they are doing nothing wrong.
> And if so, what conditions must be met in order for a doctor to write up a script of Desoxyn for his/her patient?
>
> To date, I've tried Adderall, Dexedrine (most recently) and Ritalin (as a kid) - and I think it's mostly the "curiousity factor" that makes me want to compare the positive effects of Desoxyn to medication I'm currently on and have been on before.
>
> I previously mentioned that there is still somewhat of a stigma attached with Dexedrine versus Ritalin or even Adderall. I now understand that this is because there is a higher potential to abuse Dexedrine (d-isomer considered to be more "fun"). But this doesn't even come close to what I perceive as this overwhelming taboo on the whole Desoxyn med. My drug doctor (I have two doctors, a drug doctor and a phychiatrist that communicate with each other) and I talked in great lengths regarding the appropriate treatment for my severe ADHD, explaining to me how certain stimulants have different CNS to peripheral stimulation ratios; but never did he mention Desoxyn, which is thought to have the most desirable ratio.
>
> Why is this? Is it solely the generic name that the doctors are afraid of, or is there something more to it? How does one approach a doctor about a trial on the thing without sounding like a druggie?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -puppy-
Posted by DiscoPuppy on June 24, 2002, at 15:03:24
In reply to Re: Is Desoxyn still prescribed? (No,CYA for Docs) » DiscoPuppy, posted by fachad on June 22, 2002, at 23:16:34
Thanks, Fachad!
But why would it be any different to prescribing Adderall or Dexedrine? These are all Schedule II meds.
> Yikes, I'd be afraid to ask my doc for methamphetamine. You are likely to find yourself in the "Controlled Substance Catch-22":
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020416/msgs/103521.html
>
> which is not easy to get out of once you get in.
>
> In regards to your question, it must be prescribed, because they are still manufacturing it, but I doubt its prescribed very often these days. As you said, there is a huge dismal taboo on it because of the street use.
>
> This taboo is also partly a "CYA" thing with doctors. All doctors are constantly under some level of surveillance. They are being monitored by the DEA, the State Board of Medical Examiners, and local pharmacists.
>
> Those people are watching for signs of illegal activity, like "speed clinics", or "drug diversion", or "irregular prescribing of controlled substances".
>
> If they notice anything they think is unusual, they can audit the doctor, review his records, and if anything is out of order with the controlled substance prescribing they can suspend or revoke his M.D. and even press criminal charges.
>
> Writing an RX for Desoxyn would not pass unnoticed. It is strictly legal and proper for a doctor to write for it, but it will raise a red flag.
>
> So I think most docs consider the slight advantage of Desoxyn in peripheral vs. central effects to be outweighed by the potential for abuse, diversion, and getting their own butts in hot water.
>
> As to what it would take to have it prescribed, I'd bet that some docs just never would prescribe it, period. Of the docs that would, you would have to have severe impairment of functioning and documented medical inability to tolerate Ritalin, Adderall, or Dexedrine, and have tried and failed trials of Wellbutrin, desipramine, and pemoline. That would give them enough of a paper trail to justify the prescription if they were audited…but no one likes to be audited, even if they are doing nothing wrong.
>
>
> > And if so, what conditions must be met in order for a doctor to write up a script of Desoxyn for his/her patient?
> >
> > To date, I've tried Adderall, Dexedrine (most recently) and Ritalin (as a kid) - and I think it's mostly the "curiousity factor" that makes me want to compare the positive effects of Desoxyn to medication I'm currently on and have been on before.
> >
> > I previously mentioned that there is still somewhat of a stigma attached with Dexedrine versus Ritalin or even Adderall. I now understand that this is because there is a higher potential to abuse Dexedrine (d-isomer considered to be more "fun"). But this doesn't even come close to what I perceive as this overwhelming taboo on the whole Desoxyn med. My drug doctor (I have two doctors, a drug doctor and a phychiatrist that communicate with each other) and I talked in great lengths regarding the appropriate treatment for my severe ADHD, explaining to me how certain stimulants have different CNS to peripheral stimulation ratios; but never did he mention Desoxyn, which is thought to have the most desirable ratio.
> >
> > Why is this? Is it solely the generic name that the doctors are afraid of, or is there something more to it? How does one approach a doctor about a trial on the thing without sounding like a druggie?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > -puppy-
Posted by fachad on June 28, 2002, at 0:52:30
In reply to Re: Is Desoxyn still prescribed? (No,CYA for Docs) » DiscoPuppy » fachad, posted by DiscoPuppy on June 24, 2002, at 15:03:24
DiscoPuppy: But why would it be any different to prescribing Adderall or Dexedrine? These are all Schedule II meds.
fachad: It's different because the perception of docs, law enforcement, and abusers is that methamphetamine is different. It is perceived as a drug of abuse.
You are correct, legally Desoxyn is Schedule II and it is perfectly legitimate for a doc to RX for it.
But in reality, the perception issue is a huge deal.
Look at the Oxycontin stupidity. Oxycontin has the same narcotic as Percocet (oxycodone). But news sensationalism has turned this effective pain reliever into some kind of humanity destroying evil substance, the likes of which we haven't seen since "Reefer Madness".
Ask for oxycodone as Percocet, and you may get it, or at least you will get Vicodin or Tylenol#3.
But ask for oxycodone as "Oxycontin" and you will likely get a stern look at best or a referral to a drug rehab program at worst.
And they both have the exact same drug - oxycodone. But, as the saying goes, "Perception is Reality". Go figure.
-fachad
> Thanks, Fachad!
>
> But why would it be any different to prescribing Adderall or Dexedrine? These are all Schedule II meds.
>
> > Yikes, I'd be afraid to ask my doc for methamphetamine. You are likely to find yourself in the "Controlled Substance Catch-22":
> >
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020416/msgs/103521.html
> >
> > which is not easy to get out of once you get in.
> >
> > In regards to your question, it must be prescribed, because they are still manufacturing it, but I doubt its prescribed very often these days. As you said, there is a huge dismal taboo on it because of the street use.
> >
> > This taboo is also partly a "CYA" thing with doctors. All doctors are constantly under some level of surveillance. They are being monitored by the DEA, the State Board of Medical Examiners, and local pharmacists.
> >
> > Those people are watching for signs of illegal activity, like "speed clinics", or "drug diversion", or "irregular prescribing of controlled substances".
> >
> > If they notice anything they think is unusual, they can audit the doctor, review his records, and if anything is out of order with the controlled substance prescribing they can suspend or revoke his M.D. and even press criminal charges.
> >
> > Writing an RX for Desoxyn would not pass unnoticed. It is strictly legal and proper for a doctor to write for it, but it will raise a red flag.
> >
> > So I think most docs consider the slight advantage of Desoxyn in peripheral vs. central effects to be outweighed by the potential for abuse, diversion, and getting their own butts in hot water.
> >
> > As to what it would take to have it prescribed, I'd bet that some docs just never would prescribe it, period. Of the docs that would, you would have to have severe impairment of functioning and documented medical inability to tolerate Ritalin, Adderall, or Dexedrine, and have tried and failed trials of Wellbutrin, desipramine, and pemoline. That would give them enough of a paper trail to justify the prescription if they were audited…but no one likes to be audited, even if they are doing nothing wrong.
> >
> >
> > > And if so, what conditions must be met in order for a doctor to write up a script of Desoxyn for his/her patient?
> > >
> > > To date, I've tried Adderall, Dexedrine (most recently) and Ritalin (as a kid) - and I think it's mostly the "curiousity factor" that makes me want to compare the positive effects of Desoxyn to medication I'm currently on and have been on before.
> > >
> > > I previously mentioned that there is still somewhat of a stigma attached with Dexedrine versus Ritalin or even Adderall. I now understand that this is because there is a higher potential to abuse Dexedrine (d-isomer considered to be more "fun"). But this doesn't even come close to what I perceive as this overwhelming taboo on the whole Desoxyn med. My drug doctor (I have two doctors, a drug doctor and a phychiatrist that communicate with each other) and I talked in great lengths regarding the appropriate treatment for my severe ADHD, explaining to me how certain stimulants have different CNS to peripheral stimulation ratios; but never did he mention Desoxyn, which is thought to have the most desirable ratio.
> > >
> > > Why is this? Is it solely the generic name that the doctors are afraid of, or is there something more to it? How does one approach a doctor about a trial on the thing without sounding like a druggie?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > -puppy-
This is the end of the thread.
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