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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Shelley on June 5, 2002, at 14:33:27
I read a post here about methamphetamine causing brain damage and dopamine depletion which may increase the risk of developing Parkinson's disease. Why is this not true also for the neuroleptic drugs?
Shelley.
Posted by Zo on June 5, 2002, at 22:53:12
In reply to dopamine depletion, posted by Shelley on June 5, 2002, at 14:33:27
Whoa. First the premise. I take Dexedrine precisely because it is a *source* of dopamine. . .to treat a *critical* dopamine depletion. . .
Meaning very long-term, and unable to treat in any other manner.
Zo
Posted by Xevious on June 6, 2002, at 11:21:22
In reply to Re: dopamine depletion » Shelley, posted by Zo on June 5, 2002, at 22:53:12
You're both correct. Methamphetamine has been shown to be neurotoxic, and permanently damages the brain's ability to generate both dopamine and serotonin. As with most drugs, chronic use dramatically increases the chances of sustaining such damage.It should be noted that methamphetamine and all related amphetamines actually cause dopamine release; it is only through the neurotoxic effects of methamphetamine that an abuser's brain will begin to suffer from reduced levels of dopamine.
Prescription psychostimulants and neuroleptics based on amphetamine have been specifically designed to avoid this effect. IIRC, either Ritalin or Dexedrine was actually developed by the US Military in the search of a "stay-awake/aware" pill that would avoid the nasty neurotoxicity of meth and coccaine. This drug (and now I'm thinking that it was Ritalin, I'll have to check) was used extensively by bombadiers and navigators during WWII to keep them focused, awake and on task during those long flights over Europe. (With my sympathies to anyone here who might have been on the receiving end...)
That's the big, super-important difference between street and prescription drugs - the prescription variety have been designed and tested to be as safe as possible and, ideally, actually are.
-Steven
Posted by geno on June 6, 2002, at 14:49:19
In reply to Re: dopamine depletion, posted by Xevious on June 6, 2002, at 11:21:22
Just to add, taking ghb actually increases dopamine. Theory is, if one took ritalin or dexadrine, would produce more dopamine. THen taking ghb, would block dopamine, causing a huge buildup of dopamine, then release. One would then experiene negative symptoms such as delerium, panic, hallucinations etc.
Although i use ghb, and take small doses of caffiene or ritalin, both work great together. Keeps me from falling asleep that ghb tends to do. Yes, the rebound dopamine effect is bad, but a benzo will help combat this.
geno
Posted by James on June 6, 2002, at 18:06:10
In reply to Re: dopamine depletion, posted by geno on June 6, 2002, at 14:49:19
At the risk of exposing my profound ignorance: What is ghb?
--James
Posted by automatedlady on June 7, 2002, at 15:12:27
In reply to Re: dopamine depletion, posted by James on June 6, 2002, at 18:06:10
So could 2 1/2 years of regular (weekly) amphetamine use have caused my depression? And in that case, is it not going to get better?
I don't know whether this can be the case (that it was the only cause) because I believe I have had a mood disorder from childhood.
Posted by Iago Camboa on June 8, 2002, at 10:23:40
In reply to Re: dopamine depletion: Question, posted by automatedlady on June 7, 2002, at 15:12:27
> So could 2 1/2 years of regular (weekly) amphetamine use have caused my depression? And in that case, is it not going to get better?
>
> I don't know whether this can be the case (that it was the only cause) because I believe I have had a mood disorder from childhood.Please be sure that only many years of huge daily (not weekly) doses of amphetamine could have caused any sensible damage to your neurons, so don't be scared about it.
Iago
Posted by Xevious on June 8, 2002, at 12:45:36
In reply to Re: dopamine depletion: Question, posted by Iago Camboa on June 8, 2002, at 10:23:40
This isn't my area of expertise (yet), but I'll comment anyway based on my knowledge...
Each individual has their own tolerances to drug-induced neurotoxicity. Unfortunately, the only way that you can find out is by comparing yourself against another user after the damage has already been done. There are probably many other confounding factors as well, from diet to general neurological stress to (let's go really pseudoscientific here) astral alignment. The point is that no one really knows how you will respond to neuroaffective drugs until after you've tried them. (One of the reasons why there are so many different SSRIs, for example.)
Could your amphetamine (I assume you mean meth?) use have comingled with other factors to help precipitate your current depressive disorder? Possibly, but it would be hard to tell without the benefit of a SPECT scan, and even then the results would be sketchy. Scanners can't go back in time, you see... try again in another twenty years! ;)
Something that is truly frightening to me is some of the research findings that I've read on the neurotoxicity of Aspartame (NutraSweet brand sweetener). Given some of the low dosages that have been shown to cause nerve damage in lab rats, I hate to think about what the six-soda a day folks are doing to their brains! I've sworn off of artificail sweeteners... only sugar and stevia for this kid!
> > So could 2 1/2 years of regular (weekly) amphetamine use have caused my depression? And in that case, is it not going to get better?
> >
> > I don't know whether this can be the case (that it was the only cause) because I believe I have had a mood disorder from childhood.
>
> Please be sure that only many years of huge daily (not weekly) doses of amphetamine could have caused any sensible damage to your neurons, so don't be scared about it.
>
> Iago
This is the end of the thread.
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