![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4 to 28 of 33. Go back in thread:
Posted by Chris A. on May 30, 2002, at 12:07:35
In reply to Re: estrogen » Chris A., posted by katekite on May 30, 2002, at 9:57:36
Dear Kate,
The surgery was April 8th. I am doing so well that I am thinking about trying to par down meds - under the close supervsion of my pDoc. I don't remember any one BC working better than another. Some had worse side effects, especially the injectable one. I'm trying to remember which was which.
Blessings,
Chris A.
> How long has it been since you had surgery?
>
> thanks for responding.
>
> Did you find one or another BC pill more helpful than others? or did they not help at all?
>
> kate
Posted by judy1 on May 30, 2002, at 12:42:46
In reply to estrogen, posted by katekite on May 28, 2002, at 13:28:24
When I was pregnant I actually took estradiol (E2) because my levels were low. I, too felt very stable on it. I would love to find a good birth control pill with the proper combo, if you find one please post and I will do the same. Take care, Judy
Posted by judy1 on May 30, 2002, at 18:15:05
In reply to Re: estrogen » katekite, posted by Chris A. on May 30, 2002, at 12:07:35
According to "Screaming to Be Heard", Dr. Vliet recommends Ovcon-35 which has the least progestin and some estrogen. A lot of her patients have claimed increased mood stability on these- particularly in reducing PMS. Take care, Judy
Posted by micky301 on May 30, 2002, at 18:51:16
In reply to BC pill I will ask for, posted by judy1 on May 30, 2002, at 18:15:05
Hi ,
with all this talk about estrogen as an anti depressant, I was wondering if you had ever heard of men or a male taking it in combo with anything for refractory agitated depression. My current cocktail is:
.5 mg clonazepan
30 mg remeron
> According to "Screaming to Be Heard", Dr. Vliet recommends Ovcon-35 which has the least progestin and some estrogen. A lot of her patients have claimed increased mood stability on these- particularly in reducing PMS. Take care, Judy
Posted by Cece on May 30, 2002, at 20:29:43
In reply to Re: estrogen » katekite, posted by Chris A. on May 30, 2002, at 1:46:35
Hi-
There is some discussion of estrogen in this thread:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020525/msgs/108021.htmlBoth my mother and sister had post-partum psychosis. My mother was probably undiagnosed BP. My sister has an anxiety disorder. I'm BPII, with long history of depression. The only time that I was, very briefly, (early self-induced miscarriage) pregnant, I felt great. I was later told that pregnancy hormones do boost some women, and that these same women often have severe post-partum problems.
I just switched from oral estradiol to the patch. My levels were too low on the highest safe dose of oral, and my GYN thought that the other liver-processed meds that I take might be interfering with proper absorption of the estrogen. I'll test the levels again in awhile. I'm feeling good, but other changes are happening too so hard to pinpoint cause(s).
Cece
Posted by beardedlady on May 31, 2002, at 6:30:43
In reply to Re: estrogen, Kate and Chris, et.al., posted by Cece on May 30, 2002, at 20:29:43
I was getting migraines if I missed my pill by 15 minutes, so my doc put me on a lower dose of BC pill. I got a brief period (four days) of dizziness (imbalance, weird feeling, not room spinning), and then I got several migraines, so I went on a higher dose the following month. I was still getting migraines if I missed the pill by a few minutes the next day, so I quit BC pills altogether. My dizziness returned (last August) and never left.
I tried going back on my regular bc pill, but the dizziness got worse during the first week, and I couldn't tolerate it anymore. But now it seems to fluctuate with my hormones. Doc is suggesting the patch--nine weeks on, one week off.
Anyone know anything about the patch or had similar experiences?
beardy : )>
P.S. I think I mentioned it here before, but did you all know that women often complained of symptoms that were considered psychological (mood swings, etc.), and doctors blamed it on the female organs? They thought women were "hysterical," and so they removed what made them different from men: their wombs. That's how "hysterectomy" got its name. (I have heard some argue that it's because the Greek word for uterus or womb is hustera. But the uterus was actually named because of the "idea that disturbances in the womb caused hysteria" [American Heritage Dictionary], not the other way around!)
Posted by katekite on May 31, 2002, at 12:12:43
In reply to Re: BC pill I will ask for, posted by micky301 on May 30, 2002, at 18:51:16
Some men have low testosterone... which can cause problems. How much hair you have etc is not probably a good way to know, you would need a lab test.
Testosterone is converted to estrogen on its way into the brain. So the effects of testosterone in the brain are actually caried out by estrogen -- at least that's my recollection.
Actually taking estrogen I think would be feminizing for a man.
DHEA is a pretty common supplement that I know nothing about. Somehow related.
kate
Posted by Beliala on May 31, 2002, at 17:25:19
In reply to estrogen, posted by katekite on May 28, 2002, at 13:28:24
I wish that I could tolerate The Pill. I’m developing so many bizarre physical ailments and chemical sensitivities that I can’t even take medications I was previously fine with. With The Pill (I’ve tried two kinds) aggravation of a very painful skin problem was my reason for stopping.
Aside from the skin thing, Diane-35 was a disaster for me – very moody, with aggravation of my pre-existing insomnia. Ortho Tri-Cyclen went a lot better, at least the first two weeks. The progestin dose on the third week must have been too high for me because I felt a little moodiness seeping in. I noticed after about 10 days that my brain seemed to be “waking up”: I started to dream quite vividly, whereas I’d completely stopped remembering my dreams during the previous 1 ½ years. Around the two week mark I ran out of my clomipramine for a couple of days, which really enhanced this effect. I remember noticing how music seemed to sound better, and that I’d begun daydreaming again – something I currently lack the creativity to do. Suicide seemed somewhat less urgent. One side effect I always get from bcps is increased fatigue (except Diane-35: agitation!), and OTC was no exception. Since my mood was improved, I don’t think this was “depression” – maybe increased serotonin, or increased binding of clomipramine to those receptors? My sleep was much improved, requiring less Imovane than usual.
After reading this thread I’m going to ask my pdoc about trying bioidentical estradiol. Knowing my luck I won’t be able to tolerate that either, but I can’t keep living like this! Even though I’m only 25 I suspect my hormones are in the perimenopausal range. My GP says it’s “stress”, and she’s probably right (hypothalamic amenorrhea), but all these drugs I’m taking aren’t alleviating the stress so I think hormone supplementation is in order. I just worry my doc will think hormone replacement is a nutty request for someone my age. It was hard enough wringing the bcp prescription out of my GP.
Posted by judy1 on May 31, 2002, at 19:41:39
In reply to Re: estrogen, posted by Beliala on May 31, 2002, at 17:25:19
Is there any way you can see an ob/gyn who is also an endocrinologist? Even an ob/gyn would be preferable to a GP- they are much more knowledgeable about hormones. It is not that unusual of someone your age going through perimenopause- there is a simple blood test done on Day 3 of your period that measures (I think) FSH that will determine your status. I don't know how many psychotropic meds you are on, but perhaps a wash could demonstrate if this is med or a hormone reaction. Also, you might want to do a search on the site for thyroid disorders, (Noa put something together) since dysfunction of the thyroid can mimic psych disorders. Best of luck- Judy
Posted by katekite on May 31, 2002, at 21:50:38
In reply to Re: estrogen, posted by Beliala on May 31, 2002, at 17:25:19
I think its pretty odd for anyone to have cessation of cycles due to stress, unless they also have a really low body weight or are olympic athletes (having lived in college with a few -- they still had periods of some kind). Have you been properly worked up by an endocrinologist and/or a neurologist?
What else is going on with you medically?
Don't mean to doubt your docs but 'hypothalamic amenorrhea' sounds like some guy proud to have a degree saying it's "idiopathic oligorrhea syndrome with secondary decreased playtex coupon use". Did they find something going on with your hypothalamus on mri?
kate
Posted by Beliala on June 1, 2002, at 15:44:22
In reply to Re: estrogen » Beliala, posted by judy1 on May 31, 2002, at 19:41:39
Nope, there’s no chance of my seeing any specialists - I’ve exhausted my GP’s willingness to give referrals for all the weird somatic complaints I have. Whenever I show up in her office she always ends up referring me back to my shrink. I don’t think the meds are screwing up my hormones, although they’re aggravating a lot of the symptoms I’m supposed to be taking them for. My cocktail is perpetually changing. Right now I’m on Neurontin, Remeron, Celexa, and Imovane. I get my thyroid tested every once in awhile, and it’s always normal. Years back I had T3 augmentation without any change in my symptoms. It doesn’t look like there’s any magic bullet for me, but I think if I got the estrogen thing straightened out it would take the edge off my anguish.
Beliala
> Is there any way you can see an ob/gyn who is also an endocrinologist? Even an ob/gyn would be preferable to a GP- they are much more knowledgeable about hormones. It is not that unusual of someone your age going through perimenopause- there is a simple blood test done on Day 3 of your period that measures (I think) FSH that will determine your status. I don't know how many psychotropic meds you are on, but perhaps a wash could demonstrate if this is med or a hormone reaction. Also, you might want to do a search on the site for thyroid disorders, (Noa put something together) since dysfunction of the thyroid can mimic psych disorders. Best of luck- Judy
Posted by Beliala on June 1, 2002, at 15:47:20
In reply to Re: estrogen » Beliala, posted by katekite on May 31, 2002, at 21:50:38
The “hypothalamic amenorrhea” (I see now it’s *functional* hypothalamic amenorrhea) is just what I surmised my GP meant after looking up the stress connection on the Internet. My GP actually doesn’t use such big words with mental defectives such as myself. High levels of cortisol screw up the whole hormonal feedback loop and somehow tell the hypothalamus to decrease its production of GnRH.
Medically, I have lots of weird symptoms but no diagnoses to explain them. I have severe fatigue and cognitive problems (probably due a combo of depression and depression meds), as well as burning skin pain in various locations and achy feet. I also have acne/hair loss/excess facial & body hair, which I think are caused by the stress hormone excess/estrogen deficiency. I saw a neurologist at a pain clinic a few months ago and she was no help, just told me to increase my Neurontin which had no effect. I don’t think I have any neurological diseases, although I almost wish I did….this depression one seems to be a death sentence. 25+ meds later it’s looking pretty incurable.
Beliala
> I think its pretty odd for anyone to have cessation of cycles due to stress, unless they also have a really low body weight or are olympic athletes (having lived in college with a few -- they still had periods of some kind). Have you been properly worked up by an endocrinologist and/or a neurologist?
>
> What else is going on with you medically?
>
> Don't mean to doubt your docs but 'hypothalamic amenorrhea' sounds like some guy proud to have a degree saying it's "idiopathic oligorrhea syndrome with secondary decreased playtex coupon use". Did they find something going on with your hypothalamus on mri?
>
> kate
Posted by judy1 on June 1, 2002, at 17:16:28
In reply to Re: estrogen, posted by Beliala on June 1, 2002, at 15:47:20
Actually your list of symptoms sound very much like the book I'm reading now- and it just irks me that your GP dismisses your symptoms as somatic. I wish I could give you answers, but it is difficult to isolate causes when your medical care is so poor. Does it help to know you're not alone, and perhaps may be in a position to determine what exactly is wrong sometime in the near future? I wish you only the best, and please cling to the hope that someone will be willing to help you. Just keep looking for answers and take care of yourself- Judy
Posted by Chloe on June 1, 2002, at 17:36:02
In reply to Re: estrogen, posted by Beliala on June 1, 2002, at 15:47:20
Beliala,
I am so sorry you are still struggling with your depression, hormones and other problems. I don't know if you remember, but you helped me out a while back b/c I was having severe scalp pain. I still have it to a degree, but it's so much better since I started taking 1 tablespoon of flaxseed oil and 2G of Evening primrose oil. The dryness and pain are considerably less. And the essential fatty acids have done more for me than the amitriptyline and neurontin. Though I still keep them on board. I think at 20 mgs and 600 mgs respectively, are beneficial.I have had probs with my BC pill lately. I thought I had finally found the solution with Yasmin, active pills only. Then after about 3 months of feeling ok, I started bleeding and bleeding. Gdoc said to wait for while to see if it stops. Well, it turned into a month of hemmorraghing. But I really did NOT want to stop the pill. I knew I would crash. But gdoc said stop, so I did, and with in 2 days I was SO depressed I couldn't get out of bed. And it was leading to suicidal thinking. So before I was supposed to, I started it again. And I got so energized. But I found out I am severely anemic. So my brain has been going a million miles an hours, but my body is in pain and exhausted, gasping for breath.
My hope is that I will settle down again on the Yasmin. I don't like being all racy and energized when I feel so fatigued. I don't like being racy in general, and I didn't have this reaction to Yasmin initially. I just so wish I didn't have to come off it...Hopefully in time I will have a quiet brain.
Your GP doesn't seem like he has your interests in mind if you have all these symptoms and complaints, and he won't give you a referral. I hope you get the right help or a break soon.
Have you ever considered adding essential fatty acids to your diet? I can't believe what an improvement it has made in my life. And evening primrose oil does have some estrogenic as well as anti-pain properties ...But no bad side effects for me.
Please take care,
Chloe
Posted by SLS on June 1, 2002, at 18:56:00
In reply to Re: estrogen » katekite, posted by Chris A. on May 30, 2002, at 1:46:35
> I just got rid my ovaries, am on an estradiol patch, and feel better than anytime in the past twelve years
Woo-Hoo!I can't wait to get rid of mine!
Dear Chris, I am very, very happy for you.Very.
(You can disregard my question posed to you along another thread).
- Scott
Posted by katekite on June 1, 2002, at 20:51:28
In reply to Re: estrogen, posted by Beliala on June 1, 2002, at 15:47:20
I guess 25 meds in it must be very hard to separate what is due to meds and what is your chemistry.
I still have trouble believing no periods at all comes from anxiety alone. I apparently need to do some more reading.
I have an odd burning sensation in my legs that comes and goes lasting days at a time, needle like pain in toes and fingers that is only occasional, a weird numb feeling on my scalp sometimes, weak eyelids and double vision once for a few days, extreme reactions to a few meds. I'm getting the whole MS workup, which is quite a workup, within the next couple months. Plus hormonal screens, etc.
What about talking to your insurance company, a case manager? What will they cover? What is normal in their experience for their coverage of workup of paresthesia and possible hormonal problems in someone with a history of depression? They are more likely the ones who govern what you can expect to get than any individual doc, sad to say.
Did the neurologist completely dismiss your problems or did they say to come back "if X happens?". My GP was very careful to refer me to a young female endocrinologist (as someone my age my sex would be most likely to take me seriously). You might want to reconsider your choice of general practitioner if they are not taking you seriously, or are not looking out for you when they make referrals. They know very well who they are referring to. Even if things you thought were big problems in the past turned out not to be serious, it doesn't mean that you didn't learn from that, and it doesn't mean that current problems aren't real things.
I feel a bit bad for lighting a fire, you know? I mean maybe I do need to read up and understand more about the secondary problems that stress and anxiety can cause. I'd just hate to see you write in in two years and say, oh, it turns out I had polycystic ovaries and I really should have gotten that taken care of years ago. Or whatever it might be.
take care,
kate
Posted by Cece on June 1, 2002, at 21:29:41
In reply to Re: estrogen » judy1, posted by Beliala on June 1, 2002, at 15:44:22
T3 augmentation did nothing for me; T4 augmentation is doing wonders for my mood, energy, alertness, and ability to get up in the morning.
I always tested low normal or borderline low. The T3 was prescribed for AD augmentation, not thyroid problems, and it did not change my thyroid test results. When I started on T4 I was still on T3 and got bad side effects(feeling hot, heart racing, agitation). When I dropped the T3, I was able to raise my dose of T4 with no problems. We are raising my dose to move me from the low to the high end of normal.
Thyroid supplement therapy is used by some doctors (Peter Whybrow at UCLA is a leader in this) for many psych disorders, especially depression and BPII. As someone else said here, thyroid disorders, even those that don't easily show up in testing, can mimic- my pdocs words: "any and all psych synmptoms in the book".
Of course, not a panacea for all (nothing is), but worth looking into.
Cece
Posted by SLS on June 2, 2002, at 7:39:41
In reply to Re: estrogen » Beliala, posted by Chloe on June 1, 2002, at 17:36:02
Hi Chloe.
> Have you ever considered adding essential fatty acids to your diet? I can't believe what an improvement it has made in my life.
If you don't mind my asking, which fatty acid preparations do you use, and at what dosages? Are you bipolar? How long were taking them before you began to notice a difference?Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by Chloe on June 2, 2002, at 9:44:59
In reply to Re: estrogen » Chloe, posted by SLS on June 2, 2002, at 7:39:41
>
> If you don't mind my asking, which fatty acid preparations do you use, and at what dosages? Are you bipolar? How long were taking them before you began to notice a difference?
>Hi Scott,
I started taking Barlean's (www.barleans.com) organic flaxseed oil gelcaps about 5 mouths ago. I started taking between 3 and 10 capsules which is about 5 grams when I took ten. But this was rather expensive, so I tried the oil.When I took a tablespoon of the oil on an english muffin with cottage cheese, I noticed an amazing difference in my mood. I felt calmly elated for a few weeks. This like most good things, did not last. But I do still feel better since starting flax seed oil. My skin is much softer and some of my neuropathic pain has lessened on my scalp. But it took about 2 months of 1 tbs/day of oil to get the skin softning and pain reduction. The improvement in mood was immediate when I took a large enough dose, 1 tbs. I never got the "elated" calm feeling from the gel caps. I think you have to take 14 caps to equal 1 tbs. But I like the oil. It takes nutty, and is very satisfying.
Yes, I am BP2.
About three weeks ago, I added Crystal Star evening primrose oil for the GLA component. GLA is supposed to help with hair and skin more than Linoleic acid (LA) and alpha linolenic acid (ALA), which are in the FSO. The evening primrose oil, at 2000 mg has helped with some of my scaly scalp I have and has reduced some of the eczema on my hands. I have not noticed any mood or other side effects from EPO. But I just really feel better physical and emotionally since starting these EFA's. I think my body was starved for them, from always being on a low fat diet.
Do you think you might try them?
Chloe
Posted by Beliala on June 2, 2002, at 16:47:11
In reply to Re: estrogen » Beliala, posted by judy1 on June 1, 2002, at 17:16:28
I have a copy of that book (Screaming To Be Heard). I found it very validating, and it helped put the pieces together of what was happening to me (although the stress connection wasn’t really explained well). I think my GP prefers I see my pdoc because she views psychiatric drugs as getting to the route of the problem instead of merely suppressing symptoms. I just want whatever works. I know I should be more assertive, but everything keeps backfiring on me and lately I’ve given up even trying – hopefully I’ll request that estrogen prescription next pdoc appointment though. Thanks for the well-wishes.
Beliala
> Actually your list of symptoms sound very much like the book I'm reading now- and it just irks me that your GP dismisses your symptoms as somatic. I wish I could give you answers, but it is difficult to isolate causes when your medical care is so poor. Does it help to know you're not alone, and perhaps may be in a position to determine what exactly is wrong sometime in the near future? I wish you only the best, and please cling to the hope that someone will be willing to help you. Just keep looking for answers and take care of yourself- Judy
Posted by Beliala on June 2, 2002, at 16:51:07
In reply to Re: estrogen » Beliala, posted by Chloe on June 1, 2002, at 17:36:02
Hi Chloe, I remember you. I’m glad the flax oil’s helping you. I find it helps my scalp pain but it didn’t stop my facial pain from steadily worsening. Weird how that works. I’ve been taking the evening primrose oil for years. I started taking it to make my coat nice n’ shiny and can’t remember if it had any effect on my then-mild scalp irritation. Lately my diet’s been pretty crappy, lots of evil trans fatty acids, which probably isn’t helping the inflammatory component of my pain. After years of dietary improvement I’ve gone into “I give up” mode.
I’m sorry Yasmin isn’t working out for you. I don’t know how exactly the hormones in bcps control bleeding....when you go back on it after a short break, do you find that keeps the hemorrhaging away for awhile? I’ve heard of docs giving women low-dose estrogen during the “off” days to ward off other estrogen-deficiency symptoms, but maybe that would increase the bleeding at the end of the month and defeat the point. It sounds like you’re stuck between a rock and a hard place.
As for my GP, actually it’s a “she”....women docs aren’t any more sympathetic when it comes to treating the hysterical female. I don’t present myself as the picture of psychological health (and I’m not....but my problems are real, darn it!).
Beliala
> Beliala,
> I am so sorry you are still struggling with your depression, hormones and other problems. I don't know if you remember, but you helped me out a while back b/c I was having severe scalp pain. I still have it to a degree, but it's so much better since I started taking 1 tablespoon of flaxseed oil and 2G of Evening primrose oil. The dryness and pain are considerably less. And the essential fatty acids have done more for me than the amitriptyline and neurontin. Though I still keep them on board. I think at 20 mgs and 600 mgs respectively, are beneficial.
>
> I have had probs with my BC pill lately. I thought I had finally found the solution with Yasmin, active pills only. Then after about 3 months of feeling ok, I started bleeding and bleeding. Gdoc said to wait for while to see if it stops. Well, it turned into a month of hemmorraghing. But I really did NOT want to stop the pill. I knew I would crash. But gdoc said stop, so I did, and with in 2 days I was SO depressed I couldn't get out of bed. And it was leading to suicidal thinking. So before I was supposed to, I started it again. And I got so energized. But I found out I am severely anemic. So my brain has been going a million miles an hours, but my body is in pain and exhausted, gasping for breath.
>
> My hope is that I will settle down again on the Yasmin. I don't like being all racy and energized when I feel so fatigued. I don't like being racy in general, and I didn't have this reaction to Yasmin initially. I just so wish I didn't have to come off it...Hopefully in time I will have a quiet brain.
>
> Your GP doesn't seem like he has your interests in mind if you have all these symptoms and complaints, and he won't give you a referral. I hope you get the right help or a break soon.
>
> Have you ever considered adding essential fatty acids to your diet? I can't believe what an improvement it has made in my life. And evening primrose oil does have some estrogenic as well as anti-pain properties ...But no bad side effects for me.
>
> Please take care,
> Chloe
Posted by Beliala on June 2, 2002, at 16:56:55
In reply to Re: estrogen, posted by katekite on June 1, 2002, at 20:51:28
I don’t know how common functional hypothalamic amenorrhea is compared to PCOS, but after so much fruitless testing for other symptoms I’ve resigned myself to the simplest explanation probably fitting – my body just isn’t that resilient. Stress can do all sorts of weird things to the body. In the extreme form this can even present itself as pseudocushing’s (as you can see I’ve been reading way too much on this!).
The burning pains were actually triggered by a yeast infection/reactions to skin products. After the trigger was removed, the irritation just sort of fed on itself and got worse and worse. So no mystery there, other than the mystery of why my body’s healing mechanisms are so inadequate.
The pain clinic appointment was just so humiliating I didn’t want to go back. I saw a nurse/counselor/somebody who invalidated my insight into my problems and kept psychoanalyzing everything. Then the neurologist examined me, checking my reflexes and whatnot. She seemed disgusted by my self-injury scars, which were further evidence I have the mental patient gene which makes one immune to physical problems. And then there was the inevitable referral back to my shrink to titrate my Neurontin. She suggested Tegretol if I couldn’t afford the extra Neurontin – I’d been on it before all this pain stuff started, and it had a negative effect on my mood and well-being. I don’t know what kind of magic I was hoping for.
I’m in Canada, so all my basic health care’s paid for by the government. I don’t think there’s any incentive for doctors to withhold referrals but am pretty clueless about how the system works. With my psych history and extremely deficient interpersonal skills, I doubt a new GP would make a difference.
Good luck with all the testing. I hope they find something TREATABLE. It sucks just having to “live with it,” what a miserable prospect.
Beliala
> I guess 25 meds in it must be very hard to separate what is due to meds and what is your chemistry.
>
> I still have trouble believing no periods at all comes from anxiety alone. I apparently need to do some more reading.
>
> I have an odd burning sensation in my legs that comes and goes lasting days at a time, needle like pain in toes and fingers that is only occasional, a weird numb feeling on my scalp sometimes, weak eyelids and double vision once for a few days, extreme reactions to a few meds. I'm getting the whole MS workup, which is quite a workup, within the next couple months. Plus hormonal screens, etc.
>
> What about talking to your insurance company, a case manager? What will they cover? What is normal in their experience for their coverage of workup of paresthesia and possible hormonal problems in someone with a history of depression? They are more likely the ones who govern what you can expect to get than any individual doc, sad to say.
>
> Did the neurologist completely dismiss your problems or did they say to come back "if X happens?". My GP was very careful to refer me to a young female endocrinologist (as someone my age my sex would be most likely to take me seriously). You might want to reconsider your choice of general practitioner if they are not taking you seriously, or are not looking out for you when they make referrals. They know very well who they are referring to. Even if things you thought were big problems in the past turned out not to be serious, it doesn't mean that you didn't learn from that, and it doesn't mean that current problems aren't real things.
>
> I feel a bit bad for lighting a fire, you know? I mean maybe I do need to read up and understand more about the secondary problems that stress and anxiety can cause. I'd just hate to see you write in in two years and say, oh, it turns out I had polycystic ovaries and I really should have gotten that taken care of years ago. Or whatever it might be.
>
> take care,
>
> kate
Posted by Beliala on June 2, 2002, at 16:58:17
In reply to Re: estrogen » Beliala, posted by Cece on June 1, 2002, at 21:29:41
Thanks for sharing your experience. I’m curious as to why T4 helped you while T3 didn’t – any ideas? I thought T4 was the “inactive” form and only worked by increasing T3 levels.
I don’t think thyroid would be a good idea for me right now, given my insomnia. I guess it’s something to think about should I ever get the insomnia straightened out. So many medications to try (and fail). After 25+ you’d think I’d exhausted everything but I see from this board there are still other options out there....although as you can see, I’m pretty pessimistic at this point.
Beliala
> T3 augmentation did nothing for me; T4 augmentation is doing wonders for my mood, energy, alertness, and ability to get up in the morning.
>
> I always tested low normal or borderline low. The T3 was prescribed for AD augmentation, not thyroid problems, and it did not change my thyroid test results. When I started on T4 I was still on T3 and got bad side effects(feeling hot, heart racing, agitation). When I dropped the T3, I was able to raise my dose of T4 with no problems. We are raising my dose to move me from the low to the high end of normal.
>
> Thyroid supplement therapy is used by some doctors (Peter Whybrow at UCLA is a leader in this) for many psych disorders, especially depression and BPII. As someone else said here, thyroid disorders, even those that don't easily show up in testing, can mimic- my pdocs words: "any and all psych synmptoms in the book".
>
> Of course, not a panacea for all (nothing is), but worth looking into.
>
> Cece
Posted by Chloe on June 2, 2002, at 18:34:27
In reply to Re: estrogen, posted by Beliala on June 2, 2002, at 16:51:07
> Hi Chloe, I remember you. I’m glad the flax oil’s helping you. I find it helps my scalp pain but it didn’t stop my facial pain from steadily worsening. Weird how that works. I’ve been taking the evening primrose oil for years. I started taking it to make my coat nice n’ shiny and can’t remember if it had any effect on my then-mild scalp irritation. Lately my diet’s been pretty crappy, lots of evil trans fatty acids, which probably isn’t helping the inflammatory component of my pain. After years of dietary improvement I’ve gone into “I give up” mode.
Hi Beliala,
So you have heard of evening primrose oil and it's benefits, I guess. I started it to help my hair and scalp, etc., but it's also supposed to be somewhat estrogenic. I was hoping that if I took it, I wouldn't have to switch to a higher estrogen BCP. I guess if you don't have enough estrogen you can bleed. But I already have had several yeast infections, and the thought of MORE estrogen really doesn't sit well with me. Also, all the other pills have the "old type" of progestin that gives me such terrible anxiety. So I am really hoping that I can stay with this one.I am so sorry you are in "I give up" mode. I hope some of the responders here will give you some support to help you take care of yourself and to get some of the help you need.
> I’m sorry Yasmin isn’t working out for you. I don’t know how exactly the hormones in bcps control bleeding....when you go back on it after a short break, do you find that keeps the hemorrhaging away for awhile? I’ve heard of docs giving women low-dose estrogen during the “off” days to ward off other estrogen-deficiency symptoms, but maybe that would increase the bleeding at the end of the month and defeat the point. It sounds like you’re stuck between a rock and a hard place.Well, I have been back on the Yasmin+EPO(2,000 mgs, how much are you taking???) for two weeks with no bleeding. I just had some hypomania and now have some agitation that is rather uncomfortable since restart. I am hoping when I get used to the pill again, and I am less anemic I will feel more normal again...if the bleeding doesn't start again...
> As for my GP, actually it’s a “she”....women docs aren’t any more sympathetic when it comes to treating the hysterical female. I don’t present myself as the picture of psychological health (and I’m not....but my problems are real, darn it!).
I agree about women docs at the moment. I have a female gyn and I wish I had gone with a male. I don't think she hears a word I say, she just Yup, yup, yups me like she had heard all a million times before. And she has no concept of how dangerous it can be for me to just stop a BC pill. I know millions of women do it every month, but for me, I crash and burn into deep, anergic depression. And when I restart, I am quite suicidal the first few days. I am starting to feel better enough to have the energy to act of my suicidal thoughts. Makes me furious docs, and even pdocs don't understand this about me. Trying to explaining is like speaking in tongues to them. Ugh.
I am sorry you are so invalidated by your GP. It must be awful to have a doctor tell you that your problems are not real.Hang in there. And please don't give up! There is help out there despite the many barriers... Keep up posted.
Chloe
Posted by katekite on June 2, 2002, at 22:30:03
In reply to Re: estrogen » katekite, posted by Beliala on June 2, 2002, at 16:56:55
Hi Beliala,
Well no wonder you feel like you do!
I lived in Canada for 20 years and found that health care had to be extracted from the health profession as if I was pulling my own teeth out. Waits, etc, were terrible. As a kid it was fine -- I trusted my family doctor and he gave me antibiotics and that was that. It was a false trust, because as an adult we are on our own. Doctors don't make much money, and the insurance is a bureaucracy that is overstaffed but dangerously underbrained.Doctors are only there as advisors, these days. They are not advocates or on our side, in fact they may be against medical tests (canadian insurance has quotas -- doctors that perform too many tests tend to have severe problems, extra paperwork, inquests, reviews, etc... its extremely managed care, having known a couple doctors personally they said they would never have chosen the profession had they known.)...bad for us since there is always the copout explanation of anxiety to blame everything on and they can use up their test for the day on someone with clear tumors popping out all over.
I'm sorry your experiences have been so poor. That the neurologist did not suggest a follow-up appointment with them was really lame. There would have been tests they could have done: EMGs or nerve conduction, etc to see if everything was at least working right.
I understand your feeling that the healthcare system is so hard to navigate and so humiliating as to be not worth it. I go through phases of that. But then, I still feel sick, so I go back.
You said that your interpersonal skills and lack of assertiveness about what you need interfere with getting good treatment. With your explanation of what has happened in various appointments, I can understand how hard it would be to even consider making another appointment with anyone, let alone a new doctor. Since this is the case, I would make those personality factors the ones to concentrate working on.
One or two visits with a therapist to discuss the most effective ways to deal with doctors could go a long long way. They may also have ideas of names of GPs who are sensitive to mental health and are not dismissive.
You do need a new GP. You need one that isn't satisfied with the type of neurologist you saw. You need one that doesn't treat you like you're nuts. In fact, you need to go GP shopping as if you were buying a wedding dress. You are allowed to shop. This is good practice for learning to deal with specialists (who are fewer in number, the appointments count more since you can't waste them and they take forever to wait for).
Once you have a good GP, then the goal would be to progressively hunt down diagnoses for current problems and once properly diagnosed, treatments can be found.
And you don't do too much reading. So far you are the only one who has cared at all about your medical problems -- you'd better be reading.
The fact that you are reading and posting here says something to me, that you don't quite believe that all of what has happened to you is anxiety.
Assertiveness and improving social skills in appointments is the bottom line here. You may need to find medication such as a benzodiazepine or a beta blocker to take during an appointment to be at your best.
Don't give up. For the moment, it sounds like improving your assertiveness and continuing to educate yourself about your health care options are what's needed. That, and of course working on the anxiety aspect and pain control as best you can. Once you are more assertive and can hold your own, can address the psychiatric history and get past it with some doctors, things will work out for you.
Don't even consider giving up. This is what a lot of people go through when they have a medical problem and happen to have a psychiatric history.
We do have psychiatric problems. But we are not psychiatric problems. We are individuals who have many problems and many healthy areas. We must take control of our health care, and we have every right to do so.
You know what you need. Start working on going to get it.
kate
ps -- sorry to get up on a soap box and start raging.... just reeks of discrimination.
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.