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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Janice157 on May 12, 2002, at 22:30:09
I am aware that Adderall and Dexedrine are similar, and I have read some very helpful comments and material on this board.
My question:
Assuming that these drugs have very similar effects and can both be taken for the same purpose(s), what are the equal ratios for doses of the two drugs for the same purpose(s)?i.e., does 5mg dexedrine equal 5mg adderall, is 5mg dexedrine more equal to 10mg adderall, etc.?
How much does this have to do with the different mg increments that two drugs' actual pills are manufactured with?
Posted by Rakken on May 13, 2002, at 10:50:00
In reply to Adderall (vs.) Dexedrine: DOSE RATIOS/Proportions?, posted by Janice157 on May 12, 2002, at 22:30:09
Some people find 10 mg Adderall to feel more "powerful" than 10 mg Dexedrine. But Dexedrine is actually the more potent of the two. Dextro-Amphetamine is more potent than Levo-Amphetamine. Dexedrine is all dextro. Adderall has a mixture of levo and dextro. Levo is more "speedy" than dextro. Although it often depends on the individual person, a patient on 15 mg of Dexedrine switching to Adderall would take 20 mg of Adderall. But sometimes 15 mg of Adderall feels just like 15 mg of Dexedrine in terms of its effectiveness. I was on Dexedrine and then switched to Adderall. The transition was incredibly smooth. It felt just like Dexedrine. But I now feel that Adderall "feels" like it's more potent than Dexedrine to me. But the two are so close its hard to say.
Posted by MomO3 on May 13, 2002, at 15:17:16
In reply to Adderall (vs.) Dexedrine: DOSE RATIOS/Proportions?, posted by Janice157 on May 12, 2002, at 22:30:09
My doc first prescribed 15mg Adderall all at once in the morning. It only lasted about 4-6 hrs and had a really quick uplifting feeling for about 2 hours, but the minute that it peaked out.. the downslide was a horrible sinking feeling that made me want **MORE** of the drug. It made me feel like a junkie so I told the doc this wasn't going to work.
Then he prescribed concerta 36mg in the morning and I liked that alot it lasted 12 hrs with a little bit of up and down, I never had that craving for more - but wasn't on my formulary so..
The next stop was Dexadrine - he prescribed 40mg total 20mg in the morning and 20mg at noon. It is only supposed to last about 8hrs, but on just the first 20mg I can't sleep at night, so I rarely take the second 20. Dexadrine make me a little shaky like too much caffeine and I definately don't have cravings for more of it... In fact I can't drink caffeine when I am taking it because anxiety sets in... it also makes me irritable.
I am taking a hiatus from stimulants right now in favor of neurontin, but I think I may go back to the concerta and pay the extra $$.
Posted by 3 Beer Effect on May 14, 2002, at 1:11:22
In reply to Adderall (vs.) Dexedrine: DOSE RATIOS/Proportions?, posted by Janice157 on May 12, 2002, at 22:30:09
I've been wondering this myself, but I've searched through tons of literature & books & never found an adequate answer.
I have found that every psychiatry textbook says Ritalin (methylphenidate) is half as potent as Dexedrine (dextroamphetamine). So, 20 mg of Ritalin= 10 mg of Dexedrine. For purely mental stimulation, I personally don't think this is true. It seems (to me) they are about equipotent with Ritalin having a slight advantage & being much better at 'focus' (but doesn't last nearly as long).
Dexedrine/Dextrostat/Dextroamphetamine Sulfate are purely the d-isomer of amphetamine. The time to peak blood level is usually about 2 hours, with an effective duration of action of 4-5 hours and an elimination 1/2 life of 10.25 hours.
Dexedrine (GlaxoSmithKline pharms) is probably the most effective of the 3 but unfortunately, is only available in 5 mg tablets. Dextrostat (made by Shire, the makers of Adderall) & the generic Dextroamphetamine (Barr) are available in 5 & 10 mg tablets. Personally, I take Dextrostat since it is "sort of" a 'name brand' & as such is the only 'name brand' available in 10 mg tablets.
Adderall IR, XR, or its generic are made up of 1/4 each of the following:
D-amphetamine Sulfate USP (Dexedrine); Amphetamine Sulfate USP (d,l racemic amphetamine/Benzedrine);
D-amphetamine Saccharate;
D,L Amphetamine aspartate monohydrate."Adderall contains d-amphetamine & l-amphetamine salts in the 3:1 ratio."
The peak blood level for Adderall IR is achieved around 3 hours (XR 7 hrs) and they last about 6 hours (XR 12 hours).Because of the 4 different amphetamines that make up Adderall, it is very tough to make a direct comparison to Dexedrine. The l-isomer of amphetamine that makes up some of Adderall stimulates in a different way (peripheral) than the d-isomer (CNS). The d-isomer stimulates the brain without much stimulation of the body, while the l-isomer increases breathing, heart rate etc. So, although the blood level of d-amphetamine is lower with Adderall than with an equivalent dose of Dexedrine, it feels just as stimulatory because your breathing & heart rate increase.
Although Adderall seems like some new high-tech ADD drug, it was originally just an old discontinued amphetamine diet pill called Obetrol that Shire pharmaceuticals bought the patent rights to, renamed it ADDerall, put it through FDA ADD trials & the rest is history. Because of its original intent (amphetamine diet pill), that probably explains the presence of the l-isomer which is better at weight loss/speeding up metabolism and has a longer duration of action. Adderall does work quite well though for ADD, & unlike Dexedrine/Dextrostat is available in a wide variety of doses.
Ironically, Adderall is widely perceived to be "softer" or less likely to be abused than Dexedrine even though one of the ingredients of Adderall is d,l racemic amphetamine sulfate, also known as 'Benzedrine', one of the infamous forms of "speed" widely abused both intranasally, & intraveneously during the late 1960s. Dexedrine probably suffers from this (incorrect) perception simply because it was around in the late 1960s & was subject to abuse but not as much as Benzedrine or Desoxyn, Methedrine (methamphetamine hcl).
Personally, I think Dexedrine 'feels' more like Ritalin in its effects- probably better than Adderall at mental stimulation/focus & with less anxiety than Adderall, but Adderall "wakes you up" better & lasts longer.
Here is more relevant info I have found from an excellent book I found printed back in the days when Dexedrine was much more widely prescribed- Remington Pharmaceutical Sciences (1970):
"Dextroamphetamine with greater CNS action & less peripheral action is generally preferred to amphetamine."
"As a central stimulant, the d-isomer is approximately twice as potent (on a weight basis) as the racemic mixture (d,l amphetamine sulfate) and 3 to 4 times as potent as the l-isomer in elicitation of CNS excitatory effects."
"The l-isomer is approximately twice as potent as the d-isomer in its cardiovascular actions."
"The actions & uses of dextroamphetamine are very similar to those of racemic amphetamine (sulfate) but the peripheral actions are considerably weaker."
3 Beers............
Posted by Krazy Kat on May 14, 2002, at 9:42:48
In reply to Adderall vs. Dexedrine- here's all that i've found, posted by 3 Beer Effect on May 14, 2002, at 1:11:22
Sorry, slight turn in the thread...
3beers - what do you think about Concerta? and what's a "regular" dose of ritalin?
i'm taking 10 mg of ritalin first thing in the morning and then 5 mg twice more thru the day.
it does help, but it's not enough and it Does poop out fast, which is why my pdoc is suggesting Concerta next.
I want to make sure I don't push for too much, but it's frustrating to be "almost there" but not quite. does that make sense?
thanks!
- kk
This is the end of the thread.
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