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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by MomO3 on May 10, 2002, at 1:28:48
Two Questions:
1. Is Anyone taking neurontin + stimulant (dexadrine, adderall, concerta?) If so how is that working?
2. My pdoc keeps mentioning effexor but I haven't taken it yet. How is it different than the other ssris like Prozac or Celexa?
Thanks!
This is my first post to this website. I have been lurking for about a week now. I am looking for some insights. If you are interested in my background and how I got here read on:
----------------------------------------------
I am maybe ADD and/or maybe Bipolar II.I took prozac on and off from 1989 to 1998. I stopped it before I got pg with 1st child.
In 1994 after a head on car accident (that I walked away from), I started having chronic anxiety, and when I had my first real panic attack last Sept, and took my first xanax I realized I have been completely stressed out for YEARS.
I abstained from all meds during 2 pregnancies and was "allowed" to take Zoloft while nursing. Let me tell you, Zoloft did little for me except piss me off.
Last fall I took Paxil & Celexa and decided that it was not helping me because I wasn't actually depressed. I think my bouts of depression are a symptom of something else.
So... I went to the pdoc in March. I did the research and came up with ADD, he agreed and I spent 2 months sampling adderall, concerta and then dexadrine. The result was not bad, but not quite what I had hoped for.
At my follow-up last week he prescribed neurontin. BP II was discussed but not diagnosed - my Dad is clearly BiPolar, but he would NEVER go to a shrink to be diagnosed. The PDoc keeps mentioning Wellbutrin and Effexor, but I have not bitten on those yet. I am so tired of taking anti-depressants that don't help.
Does anyone have any advice for me? About the meds or the ADD/BiPolar?
I know a little about ADD and almost nothing about Bi-Polar II... I feel a little lost like I have been thrust into a whole different world of meds... the first post I read on this site was about "a doctor made epileptic" and I immediately had an anxiety attack about taking the neurontin...
Posted by Ritch on May 10, 2002, at 9:49:12
In reply to Neurontin, stimulants, effexor, ADD, BP II, posted by MomO3 on May 10, 2002, at 1:28:48
> Two Questions:
>
> 1. Is Anyone taking neurontin + stimulant (dexadrine, adderall, concerta?) If so how is that working?
>
> 2. My pdoc keeps mentioning effexor but I haven't taken it yet. How is it different than the other ssris like Prozac or Celexa?
>
> Thanks!
>
> This is my first post to this website. I have been lurking for about a week now. I am looking for some insights. If you are interested in my background and how I got here read on:
> ----------------------------------------------
> I am maybe ADD and/or maybe Bipolar II.
>
> I took prozac on and off from 1989 to 1998. I stopped it before I got pg with 1st child.
>
> In 1994 after a head on car accident (that I walked away from), I started having chronic anxiety, and when I had my first real panic attack last Sept, and took my first xanax I realized I have been completely stressed out for YEARS.
>
> I abstained from all meds during 2 pregnancies and was "allowed" to take Zoloft while nursing. Let me tell you, Zoloft did little for me except piss me off.
>
> Last fall I took Paxil & Celexa and decided that it was not helping me because I wasn't actually depressed. I think my bouts of depression are a symptom of something else.
>
> So... I went to the pdoc in March. I did the research and came up with ADD, he agreed and I spent 2 months sampling adderall, concerta and then dexadrine. The result was not bad, but not quite what I had hoped for.
>
> At my follow-up last week he prescribed neurontin. BP II was discussed but not diagnosed - my Dad is clearly BiPolar, but he would NEVER go to a shrink to be diagnosed. The PDoc keeps mentioning Wellbutrin and Effexor, but I have not bitten on those yet. I am so tired of taking anti-depressants that don't help.
>
> Does anyone have any advice for me? About the meds or the ADD/BiPolar?
>
> I know a little about ADD and almost nothing about Bi-Polar II... I feel a little lost like I have been thrust into a whole different world of meds... the first post I read on this site was about "a doctor made epileptic" and I immediately had an anxiety attack about taking the neurontin...Hi,
I have got an odd combo of ADHD/BPII or recurrent major depression (depending on what state of mind my pdoc's in). I tried Neurontin+Adderall once and it worked quite well for everything except for lingering anxiety (despite the Neurontin). It sounds like your pdoc is trying to find an antidepressant which will treat the ADD symptoms *and* reduce your anxiety. You might find a three way combo of Neurontin+ lowdose stimulant(take your pick) + lowdose antidepressant(take your pick) to be very effective. Let us know what your pdoc says and how stuff works for you. There are quite a few people here with similar problems and it pretty much is a big dice toss.
hope this helps,
Mitch
Posted by MomO3 on May 10, 2002, at 13:05:51
In reply to Re: Neurontin, stimulants, effexor, ADD, BP II » MomO3, posted by Ritch on May 10, 2002, at 9:49:12
Mitch,
Thanks for the response. Have you taken effexor? I after everything I have read I am leaning towards that for AD but I want to know how it differs from the other ADs like Prozac, or Celexa.
Thanks,
Holly
Posted by Ritch on May 10, 2002, at 21:59:36
In reply to Re: Neurontin, stimulants, effexor, ADD, BP II, posted by MomO3 on May 10, 2002, at 13:05:51
> Mitch,
>
> Thanks for the response. Have you taken effexor? I after everything I have read I am leaning towards that for AD but I want to know how it differs from the other ADs like Prozac, or Celexa.
>
> Thanks,
> Holly
Holly,Yes, I was on Effexor for several months with lithium for bipolar. It worked well for ADD and general anxiety, but unfortunately it made me way too grouchy and I had chronic skin itchiness from it. I think if you have a distinct blend of ADD/anxiety, Effexor probably would be a good choice. If you definitely have bipolar mixed in with it you might be better off with an anticonvulsant mood stabilizer (like Depakote)+ a lowdose stimulant instead of an antidepressant. I couldn't handle more than 37.5mg XR/day tops.
Mitch
Posted by MomO3 on May 10, 2002, at 22:44:09
In reply to Re: Neurontin, stimulants, effexor, ADD, BP II » MomO3, posted by Ritch on May 10, 2002, at 21:59:36
Well I talked to pdoc today he is putting me on Wellbutrin - I don't know why I am so adverse to the idea of taking wellbutrin, but somewhere along the lines I decided that I didn't want that one.. but i guess I will give it a try.
I am still not sure whether ADD or BP II is more correct, I could make an argument either way. I have been reading about it "obsessively" for a week now... and am just pretty confused. I was hopeful at the prospect of an finding an identifiable condition that could be treated. But I just seem to fall into the gray areas...
I went to www.mindfixers.com and filled out the survey, but it just seemed to be testing and identifying variations of ADD. The only thing mentioned about bipolar was one result field that said "Manic episode - Possible". Is there an online survey for Bipolar that might shed some light?
Thanks,
holly
Posted by Ritch on May 10, 2002, at 23:19:58
In reply to Re: Neurontin, stimulants, effexor, ADD, BP II, posted by MomO3 on May 10, 2002, at 22:44:09
> Well I talked to pdoc today he is putting me on Wellbutrin - I don't know why I am so adverse to the idea of taking wellbutrin, but somewhere along the lines I decided that I didn't want that one.. but i guess I will give it a try.
>
> I am still not sure whether ADD or BP II is more correct, I could make an argument either way. I have been reading about it "obsessively" for a week now... and am just pretty confused. I was hopeful at the prospect of an finding an identifiable condition that could be treated. But I just seem to fall into the gray areas...
>
> I went to www.mindfixers.com and filled out the survey, but it just seemed to be testing and identifying variations of ADD. The only thing mentioned about bipolar was one result field that said "Manic episode - Possible". Is there an online survey for Bipolar that might shed some light?
>
> Thanks,
> hollySomeone posted one of those recently, but I have never taken one-I have been "technically" BP for abut 18 years , then BPII for a few more then ADHD, etc....
You might want to check out the Amen clinic's site. I have seen something described as "ring-of-fire" ADHD, where there is excessive brain activity which anticonvulsants seem to help.
Wellbutrin works great for some folks. I think you need the dose up quite a bit to get good results for ADD symptoms. I could't tolerate much of it due to agitation-social anxiety aggravation, etc. Plus, I seemed to *lose* impulse control with WB, whereas with standard psychostimulants I do not seem to have that problem.
Mitch
Posted by CraigD on November 16, 2003, at 17:07:46
In reply to Re: Neurontin, stimulants, effexor, ADD, BP II » MomO3, posted by Ritch on May 10, 2002, at 23:19:58
Has anyone out there found success with Wellbutrin and Neurontin?
Posted by momO3 on November 16, 2003, at 22:11:06
In reply to Neurontin and Wellbutrin? » Ritch, posted by CraigD on November 16, 2003, at 17:07:46
> Has anyone out there found success with Wellbutrin and Neurontin?
Wellbutrin made me wacko-insane in the 2 short weeks that I took it. I almost got arrested in an airport for losing it with a woman behind the counter and kicking over some things. I am not a wild or violent person at all, and I would say that the "impulse control" was just not there with the wellbutrin. BTW - After that incident I threw the wellbutrin away.
I liked the neurontin, but it seemed to have the law of diminishing returns... I had to go to a higher & higher dose to get the same effect.
What I found that has worked pretty well was Celexa and Lamictal..it stabilized me right up until I got pregnant again(oops!)
Posted by allisonm on November 16, 2003, at 22:21:33
In reply to Re: Neurontin and Wellbutrin?, posted by momO3 on November 16, 2003, at 22:11:06
I took Remeron, Wellbutrin and Neurontin. Then got off of the Remeron and just took the WB and N. The WB worked well, but gave an edge of irritability. Neurontin wasn't enough to help. Supplementing with Serzone was much more effective. Then I switched from Serzone to Zoloft (still keeping with the WB at 300mg/day) and have found it to be the best combo so far in about 6 years of trying.
good luck.
Posted by theo on November 16, 2003, at 22:54:01
In reply to Re: Neurontin and Wellbutrin?, posted by allisonm on November 16, 2003, at 22:21:33
Why did you quit the Remeron. Was it good with Wellbutrin?
Posted by allisonm on November 17, 2003, at 17:21:49
In reply to Re: Neurontin and Wellbutrin? » allisonm, posted by theo on November 16, 2003, at 22:54:01
The Remeron and the Wellbutrin sort of worked, but not enough to stay on it. I took Remeron for more than 2 years, supplemented it with lithium, then Wellbutrin. As it appeared that the Wellbutrin was working, my pdoc increased that and decreased the Rem dose so that the Rem was supplementing the WB. In the end, as we decreased the Rem, we found little change in mood (good or bad) so discontinued and started looking for something else that might have a more positive effect.
At the time that I stopped the Rem, I was taking WB (400 mg a day), and Neurontin. Those two together were not enough, so my pdoc added Serzone and we phased out the Neurontin. That combo worked better than the Rem, but still was not enough, so we switched to Zoloft (30 mg) and reduced the WB to 300mg/day. Wellbutrin and Zoloft seem to be the most effective combination so far.
Also, I have just switched to the Wellbutrin XL. It's terrific as I often forget to take the afternoon dose and end up taking it later in the day than I would have liked.
Posted by on-the-wave on November 19, 2003, at 13:03:58
In reply to Re: Neurontin and Wellbutrin?, posted by allisonm on November 17, 2003, at 17:21:49
Re your anxiety.
I suffered from severe anxiety for more than 20 years and have just overcome this anxiety after 3 years of medication and therapy. My anxiety was sourced back to my childhood and my father. My breakthrough came when i was able to identify this and broke of all contact with my parents and was able to relinquish all influence they had over my life.This was due to an emotional baptism of pain in my relationship with my wife, who had the courage, foresight, faith and love to stick with me through it all (10 years of marraige).
I started treatment with Luvox, i dont recall the dose but i was maxing when i switched to effexor. At 150mg i felt the first effects and eventually settled at 300mg. In hindsight 450mg would probably have been more effective but the SE's where already freaking me out at 300mg. I also took a sedative (i dont recall name) which was effective for about 2-3 months then lost effectiveness and merely led to semi-addiction.
With regard to diagnoses, i found that it depended on the psychologist or psychiatrist that is treating. Each has a different insight and prognosis depending on there personal / professional experience. My limited experience illustrated that if one Pdoc is not working, or after 2-3months cannot identify your problem, change till you find the one that can. It saved my life. Anxiety was tough to beat because the mind is extremely powerful at protecting you personally from external damage and throws up all kinds of smoke screens to prevent emotional trauma. My anxiety was a result of my mind continually seeking external stimuli to create situations that prevented me from dealing with the emotional reality i was involved in.
I am not a doc so this is just my personal view, but anxiety can be beaten.
regards
Posted by CraigD on November 19, 2003, at 16:52:01
In reply to Re: Neurontin and Wellbutrin?, posted by on-the-wave on November 19, 2003, at 13:03:58
I'm curious, what kind of talk-therapy was most helpful for your anxiety?
Posted by on-the-wave on November 21, 2003, at 11:57:41
In reply to Re: Neurontin and Wellbutrin?, posted by CraigD on November 19, 2003, at 16:52:01
I can't say for myself what exactly it was. It was a combination of the therapist and the experience i was going through at home, etc. A lot is due to the guidance and understanding of the therapist. The therapist admitted that at first they had no idea about my position, gradually identified where i was, untill one session i was told that they new exactly where i was and where i needed to be, but i had to get there on my own.
The process precipitated a transformation within myself that changed my entire view of life. Strangely, once this happened, i went from a situation of knowing that my therapist understood me completely to at my next session I felt as though the therapist had no idea as to who i was.
Posted by Stavros on November 21, 2003, at 14:26:00
In reply to Re: Neurontin and Wellbutrin?, posted by on-the-wave on November 19, 2003, at 13:03:58
I suffer tremendously from GAD or some sort anxiety producing thing in my head and it is now snuffing more and more life of me. I think my mind, like your is so strong that it won't let anything/anyone(me included) really get to the bottom of the issue. I actually think i created an issue just to protect myself from life loniness, pain, etc? hell i don't know. the result is just that, no life and lots of lonlines. My mind will not let me get to step 2 until i can understand or make sense of this block. Stopped working, refuse to date until i find peace of mind just being a lone. What I have done fro the last several years is just rise above it and i am tired and it was too stressful. You are fortunate to have a breakthrough as i don't think there is any issues that happened to me. I did this to myself some weird way. I relate with you and how the mind is so strong with smoke screens. I tried Luvox years ago and I may go on it again as I am not doing a damn thing with my lame self right now. Lamictal helped me rev up past this thing in my head and i was able to get some owrk done but it was so much work ot overpower this this fear. Thanks for the success story and I really relate to what you said. Continued success
S
> Re your anxiety.
>
> I suffered from severe anxiety for more than 20 years and have just overcome this anxiety after 3 years of medication and therapy. My anxiety was sourced back to my childhood and my father. My breakthrough came when i was able to identify this and broke of all contact with my parents and was able to relinquish all influence they had over my life.This was due to an emotional baptism of pain in my relationship with my wife, who had the courage, foresight, faith and love to stick with me through it all (10 years of marraige).
>
> I started treatment with Luvox, i dont recall the dose but i was maxing when i switched to effexor. At 150mg i felt the first effects and eventually settled at 300mg. In hindsight 450mg would probably have been more effective but the SE's where already freaking me out at 300mg. I also took a sedative (i dont recall name) which was effective for about 2-3 months then lost effectiveness and merely led to semi-addiction.
>
> With regard to diagnoses, i found that it depended on the psychologist or psychiatrist that is treating. Each has a different insight and prognosis depending on there personal / professional experience. My limited experience illustrated that if one Pdoc is not working, or after 2-3months cannot identify your problem, change till you find the one that can. It saved my life. Anxiety was tough to beat because the mind is extremely powerful at protecting you personally from external damage and throws up all kinds of smoke screens to prevent emotional trauma. My anxiety was a result of my mind continually seeking external stimuli to create situations that prevented me from dealing with the emotional reality i was involved in.
>
> I am not a doc so this is just my personal view, but anxiety can be beaten.
>
> regards
Posted by Cybele on November 22, 2003, at 10:35:08
In reply to Re: Neurontin and Wellbutrin?, posted by allisonm on November 17, 2003, at 17:21:49
> Also, I have just switched to the Wellbutrin XL. It's terrific as I often forget to take the afternoon dose and end up taking it later in the day than I would have liked.
What happened when you took it too late in the day?
Posted by theo on November 22, 2003, at 11:02:36
In reply to Re: Neurontin and Wellbutrin? » allisonm, posted by Cybele on November 22, 2003, at 10:35:08
What dose of the Wellbutrin XL are you taking?
Posted by Cybele on November 22, 2003, at 11:09:41
In reply to Re: Neurontin and Wellbutrin? » allisonm, posted by Cybele on November 22, 2003, at 10:35:08
> > Also, I have just switched to the Wellbutrin XL. It's terrific as I often forget to take the afternoon dose and end up taking it later in the day than I would have liked.
>
> What happened when you took it too late in the day?
>
>I am taking WB-SR 150 mg in the morning. I was taking it twice a day, but was *sleepy* all the time. I believe I was having too much REM sleep. I had absolutely no problems getting to sleep at night, and was sleeping 10-14 hours a day.
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