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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by 3 Beer Effect on April 26, 2002, at 1:17:22
Substitution is a controversial practice in psychiatry & is commonly used in the case of heroin addicts who withdraw from heroin by the use of methadone.
An old & very controversial way of substitution as a cure for depressant/barbituate/alcohol addiction that has shown to be effective in psychiatry may be by taking high doses of stimulants.
[This method should NOT be attempted without direction from a licensed physician/psychiatrist or by those with any health problems whatsoever- especially including but not limited to hypertension (even low or moderate), history of seizures or seizure disorder, liver damage, renal problems, alkalosis, high cholestoral, heart problems, old age. I am not condoning or advocating the use of illegal drugs or illicit/improper use of scheduled or unscheduled stimulant medications, but merely repeating a psychopharmacological theory that has been around since the times of Sigmund Freud for academic/informational/historical value purposes only.]
This theory stems back to the days when Sigmund Freud cured a colleague's morphine addiction by introducing his friend to intranasal cocaine hcl. Morphine & opiate addiction was a huge problem in those days since both were so readily available in various otc concoctions. Freud's fellow colleague kicked the morphine habit quickly through the use of the cocaine powder but unfortunately became a cocaine addict & I believe either died or became a "lunatic". However, use of Cocaine as a substitute therapy or otherwise should be avoided at all costs because it can be both physically & psychologically addictive, clots the blood (causing heart attacks) & can cause convulsions. The fatal dose of pure cocaine is about 1.2 grams & so the dose required to produce the "high" and the fatal dose are too close to one another (narrow therapeutic index) & so unsurpisingly Cocaine results in more deaths & emergency room admissions than all the other illegal drugs combined.
This "Freudian" method of stimulant substitution as a cure for depressant/alcohol addiction could be done in a safer manner with prescribed pharmaceutical amphetamines such as Dexedrine/Dextostat (Dextroamphetamine), Adderall, Ritalin or even Desoxyn, all of which rarely result in overdose deaths.
Ephedrine or Ephedra should absolutely never be used as substitution therapy, & probably should never be used by anyone except diagnosed asthmatics. Ephedra & Ephedrine overdoses have likely killed more people in the last 10 years than Amphetamine overdoses have in the last 50 years because Ephedrine is very (too) potent at raising blood pressure per unit of "stimulation" while the pressor actions of Amphetamines & even Methamphetamine are much weaker. A dose of 100-150 mg of Ephedrine/ephedra could be fatal while people have ingested doses of amphetamines in one case as high as 4700 mg (amphetamine sulfate) intraveneously and still lived.
Dextroamphetamine (Dexedrine) & Ritalin are the preferred agents in substitution therapy because they have the least effect on blood pressure of the amphetamine-type stimulants. Dextroamphetamine also used to be a treatment for acute & chronic alcoholism.
Yes, you are in a sense substituting one addiction (a depressant) for another (amphetamine), but amphetamines & derivatives thereof are psychologically but not physically addictive & so are much easier to quit than depressants/barbituates/benzodiazepines & for a limited amount of people alcohol. The usual withdrawl symptoms associated with stopping chronic use of high doses consists of lethargy & depression (sometimes severe) both of which eventually fade over time, especially with anti-depressant medication. As with any psychiatric medication there is always a downside. The amphetamines when taken in extremely excessive doses do cause severe insomnia, anorexia, paranoid behavior, picking at the skin, & sterotypy closely resembling paranoid schizophrenia, & this syndrome has been associated with violent outbursts & subsequent arrests in Methamphetamine & Amphetamine Sulfate (Benzedrine) addicts.
On a side note: The fantastic sales of Metabolife & Xenadrine is quite disturbing since both of these ephedra containing weight-loss products are much less effective but much more dangerous than Dextroamphetamine (still the most effective weight loss medication ever created). Perhaps Doctors should start prescribing amphetamines again for obesity (a practice that has been discouraged since the 1960s) considering the incredible demand of Americans to self-medicate with ephedrine/ephedra to lose weight & the considerable health problems obesity eventually leads to. Easy access to amphetamines in the 1960s & 1970s did lead to a widespread abuse problem among the "baby boomer" generation, but drug abuse, especially in the 1970s was much more common than it is today (despite what you may hear on TV), & many of those abusers were poly drug abusers- those who to put it bluntly, abused any drug on the table or any drug that was "fashionable" at the time. The abuse of amphetamines by the baby boomer generation didn't lead to a generation of lifetime addicts, rather, experimentation with amphetamines was a fad just like Quaalude abuse, & was later replaced with powder cocaine abuse in the late 1970s disco/& early 1980s Wall Street materialistic "yuppie" era. Interestingly enough, the "baby boomer" generation has grown up to become the single wealthiest group of people in the history of the world!
3 Beers.......................................
Posted by fachad on April 26, 2002, at 11:10:11
In reply to Stimulant Sub. for Depressant Addiction in Psy., posted by 3 Beer Effect on April 26, 2002, at 1:17:22
3 Beers wrote: "...than Dextroamphetamine (still the most effective weight loss medication ever created)."
Well, I have been taking Dexedrine 40 mg/day for 3 months now and I have not lost any weight. (No, I am not taking any meds known to cause weight gain, either.)
I don't really think Dexedrine is a great weight loss med. That's probably why they stopped using it for that.
> Substitution is a controversial practice in psychiatry & is commonly used in the case of heroin addicts who withdraw from heroin by the use of methadone.
>
> An old & very controversial way of substitution as a cure for depressant/barbituate/alcohol addiction that has shown to be effective in psychiatry may be by taking high doses of stimulants.
>
> [This method should NOT be attempted without direction from a licensed physician/psychiatrist or by those with any health problems whatsoever- especially including but not limited to hypertension (even low or moderate), history of seizures or seizure disorder, liver damage, renal problems, alkalosis, high cholestoral, heart problems, old age. I am not condoning or advocating the use of illegal drugs or illicit/improper use of scheduled or unscheduled stimulant medications, but merely repeating a psychopharmacological theory that has been around since the times of Sigmund Freud for academic/informational/historical value purposes only.]
>
> This theory stems back to the days when Sigmund Freud cured a colleague's morphine addiction by introducing his friend to intranasal cocaine hcl. Morphine & opiate addiction was a huge problem in those days since both were so readily available in various otc concoctions. Freud's fellow colleague kicked the morphine habit quickly through the use of the cocaine powder but unfortunately became a cocaine addict & I believe either died or became a "lunatic". However, use of Cocaine as a substitute therapy or otherwise should be avoided at all costs because it can be both physically & psychologically addictive, clots the blood (causing heart attacks) & can cause convulsions. The fatal dose of pure cocaine is about 1.2 grams & so the dose required to produce the "high" and the fatal dose are too close to one another (narrow therapeutic index) & so unsurpisingly Cocaine results in more deaths & emergency room admissions than all the other illegal drugs combined.
>
> This "Freudian" method of stimulant substitution as a cure for depressant/alcohol addiction could be done in a safer manner with prescribed pharmaceutical amphetamines such as Dexedrine/Dextostat (Dextroamphetamine), Adderall, Ritalin or even Desoxyn, all of which rarely result in overdose deaths.
>
> Ephedrine or Ephedra should absolutely never be used as substitution therapy, & probably should never be used by anyone except diagnosed asthmatics. Ephedra & Ephedrine overdoses have likely killed more people in the last 10 years than Amphetamine overdoses have in the last 50 years because Ephedrine is very (too) potent at raising blood pressure per unit of "stimulation" while the pressor actions of Amphetamines & even Methamphetamine are much weaker. A dose of 100-150 mg of Ephedrine/ephedra could be fatal while people have ingested doses of amphetamines in one case as high as 4700 mg (amphetamine sulfate) intraveneously and still lived.
>
> Dextroamphetamine (Dexedrine) & Ritalin are the preferred agents in substitution therapy because they have the least effect on blood pressure of the amphetamine-type stimulants. Dextroamphetamine also used to be a treatment for acute & chronic alcoholism.
>
> Yes, you are in a sense substituting one addiction (a depressant) for another (amphetamine), but amphetamines & derivatives thereof are psychologically but not physically addictive & so are much easier to quit than depressants/barbituates/benzodiazepines & for a limited amount of people alcohol. The usual withdrawl symptoms associated with stopping chronic use of high doses consists of lethargy & depression (sometimes severe) both of which eventually fade over time, especially with anti-depressant medication. As with any psychiatric medication there is always a downside. The amphetamines when taken in extremely excessive doses do cause severe insomnia, anorexia, paranoid behavior, picking at the skin, & sterotypy closely resembling paranoid schizophrenia, & this syndrome has been associated with violent outbursts & subsequent arrests in Methamphetamine & Amphetamine Sulfate (Benzedrine) addicts.
>
>
> On a side note: The fantastic sales of Metabolife & Xenadrine is quite disturbing since both of these ephedra containing weight-loss products are much less effective but much more dangerous than Dextroamphetamine (still the most effective weight loss medication ever created). Perhaps Doctors should start prescribing amphetamines again for obesity (a practice that has been discouraged since the 1960s) considering the incredible demand of Americans to self-medicate with ephedrine/ephedra to lose weight & the considerable health problems obesity eventually leads to. Easy access to amphetamines in the 1960s & 1970s did lead to a widespread abuse problem among the "baby boomer" generation, but drug abuse, especially in the 1970s was much more common than it is today (despite what you may hear on TV), & many of those abusers were poly drug abusers- those who to put it bluntly, abused any drug on the table or any drug that was "fashionable" at the time. The abuse of amphetamines by the baby boomer generation didn't lead to a generation of lifetime addicts, rather, experimentation with amphetamines was a fad just like Quaalude abuse, & was later replaced with powder cocaine abuse in the late 1970s disco/& early 1980s Wall Street materialistic "yuppie" era. Interestingly enough, the "baby boomer" generation has grown up to become the single wealthiest group of people in the history of the world!
>
> 3 Beers.......................................
Posted by 3 Beer Effect on April 26, 2002, at 23:53:18
In reply to No Weight Loss for Me from Dexedrine... » 3 Beer Effect, posted by fachad on April 26, 2002, at 11:10:11
They have come out with a bunch of weight loss medications in the last fifty years like Didrex, Tenuate, Phentermine, Mazindol, etc in an attempt to seperate CNS activation from weight loss but all have proven unsuccesful at doing this except for fenfluramine which makes you sleepy.
Still Dextroamphetamine is the strongest of the anorectics/weight loss medications with the possible exception of the never prescribed Desoxyn (methamphetamine hcl). It is the standard that other prescription diet pills are measured by.
They gave rats Dexedrine one hour before every meal & they starved to death in two weeks. I'm sure they gave those rats very high doses, so that is an extreme example, but Dexedrine does cause weight loss in most people. Dexedrine Spansules are weaker and are probably less effective at lowering appetite and weight loss. Dexedrine & other amphetamines like Adderall even causes a decrease in taste sensation so food doesn't taste that great & then theoretically you eat less.
I think anyone who took a sufficient dose of the immediate release Dexedrine one or two hours before every meal would definitely lose weight. I lose weight from it & I would like to gain weight, I just take it for ADD. I've dropped 20 lbs twice- i'm 6'1" and went from 185 to 165 lbs, once when taking Ritalin and once when taking Dexedrine.
Also, Adderall causes weight loss- Shire pharmaceuticals did not create Adderall in a lab, they merely purchased the rights to an old drug from another pharm company & then renamed & sold it as Adderall. Adderall is not some newfangled ADD formulation but an old discontinued amphetamine diet pill that was called Obetrol.
Posted by Katalina on April 30, 2002, at 13:31:34
In reply to Dexedrine is still the strongest diet pill made, posted by 3 Beer Effect on April 26, 2002, at 23:53:18
> They have come out with a bunch of weight loss medications in the last fifty years like Didrex, Tenuate, Phentermine, Mazindol, etc in an attempt to seperate CNS activation from weight loss but all have proven unsuccesful at doing this except for fenfluramine which makes you sleepy.
>
> Still Dextroamphetamine is the strongest of the anorectics/weight loss medications with the possible exception of the never prescribed Desoxyn (methamphetamine hcl). It is the standard that other prescription diet pills are measured by.
>
> They gave rats Dexedrine one hour before every meal & they starved to death in two weeks. I'm sure they gave those rats very high doses, so that is an extreme example, but Dexedrine does cause weight loss in most people. Dexedrine Spansules are weaker and are probably less effective at lowering appetite and weight loss. Dexedrine & other amphetamines like Adderall even causes a decrease in taste sensation so food doesn't taste that great & then theoretically you eat less.
>
> I think anyone who took a sufficient dose of the immediate release Dexedrine one or two hours before every meal would definitely lose weight. I lose weight from it & I would like to gain weight, I just take it for ADD. I've dropped 20 lbs twice- i'm 6'1" and went from 185 to 165 lbs, once when taking Ritalin and once when taking Dexedrine.
>
> Also, Adderall causes weight loss- Shire pharmaceuticals did not create Adderall in a lab, they merely purchased the rights to an old drug from another pharm company & then renamed & sold it as Adderall. Adderall is not some newfangled ADD formulation but an old discontinued amphetamine diet pill that was called Obetrol.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Just wanted to comment that I also can not keep weight on with Adderall (30 mgs a day). I'm 31 and 5'5" and 97 lbs. I am completely cut up, look like I'm all muscle and don't necessarily look bad, although my sister told me I'm bordering on being "crack skinny". I'm not intentionally trying to lose weight, in fact I try to make a point to eat whenever I can, but it seems my metabolism is just much quicker now. I also have two kids under 3 and run around after them all day. I'm also on 75 mgs. of Effexor and .5 mgs. of klonopin a day. I feel wonderful and if being too thin is the only negative side effect, so be it!
I also think obese people should have a shot at amphetamines. Especially those who are fat and depressed about it. Adderall has been such a positive thing in my life (ADD-wise and mood improvement) I can only imagine what it could do for someone with low self esteem and lack of will power issues.
Katalina
Posted by katekite on April 30, 2002, at 14:08:43
In reply to Re: Dexedrine is still the strongest diet pill made, posted by Katalina on April 30, 2002, at 13:31:34
I was always berated for having no willpower....not overweight just lazy and scattered... so ritalin was a godsend... I am trying them all to see which is best and am now trying dexedrine spansules. I like it so far, less control of concentration than ritalin but more energy.... adderall is next.
Anyhow, just curious how long you've been on it? I hear scary reports that it stops working and don't want that to happen.
kate
Posted by 3 Beer Effect on April 30, 2002, at 22:55:52
In reply to does dexedrine/adderall poop-out? » Katalina, posted by katekite on April 30, 2002, at 14:08:43
Tolerance is a problem with any stimulant, even caffeine. I have not heard of poop-out being a problem with dex, ritalin, or adderall- the only stimulant that seems to poop out is Provigil (modafinil).
If your stimulant seems to lose effectiveness or stops working, then take what is called a "stimulant holiday." If you stop taking the stimulant for about 7 days & then start retaking it, you will be back to square one & it will have full effectiveness again.
You could take the amino acid supplement & dopamine precursor L-tyrosine 500 to 1500 mgs a day, which would help stave off any dopamine depletion from the stimulants, especially with Dexedrine or Adderall. Vitamin B6, C, & Folic Acid are necessary in order to metabolize l-tyrosine properly & l-tyrosine must be taken on an empty stomach. You could eat a bit of something with it as long as there is no protein in that food or drink- if there protein in it that protein & the l-tyrosine will compete for absorption.
I found Twinlab makes excellent 'l-tyrosine' & other amino acid products, while I have had mixed effects with other manufacturers, including the often recommended Country Life. They make 'l-tyrosine' & 'l-tyrosine plus'. The 'l-tyrosine plus' already has enough vitamin B6 & C in it so the only other thing you have to take with it is a small amount of folic acid such as 400 mcg (which is the 100% RDA). But I personally think the l-tyrosine plus has too much vitamin C & B6 in it for multiple dosages & so you shouldn't take more than one pill of it/day which provides 250 mg of l-tyrosine. I take one of these TWINLAB 'l-tyrosine plus' pills in the morning & two regular TWINLAB 'l-tyrosine' 500 mg pills along with a folic acid 400 microgram pill, so I end up with 1250 mgs, which seems to work pretty well. A sugary sports drink with no protein in it, like Gatorade, is good to take with amino acids, I believe the sugar helps absorption. You shouldn't ever take more than 1500 mgs per day, because most the rest of it will be excreted in urine- & protein metabolizes to urea/uric acid & so too much protein can cause kidney problems or even kidney stones (ouch!).
L-tyrosine has a slight stimulant & weight loss effect, & so you probably shouldn't take it before bed. Since you have to take it on an empty stomach, I usually wake up early in the morning, take it (have it sitting by your bedside so you can immediately go back to sleep), & then I go back to sleep for an hour.
I would avoid supplemental L-phenylalanine with stimulants. Although L-phenylalanine has a stimulant effect to it, is a precursor to l-tyrosine, & crosses the blood brain barrier more easily while l-tyrosine is dependent on carrier uptake (which can often be saturated) the one major problem with it when taken as a supplement is that is depletes dopamine & norepinephrine. I don't think they know why it does this, but the results of experiments with it have had similar outcomes- it seems to act more as a mild antidepressant rather than a stimulant when compare to l-tyrosine. I wouldn't worry about how much l-phenylalanine is in the food you eat, it is an essential amino acid, & you get plenty from a normal diet. I doubt normal food sources of l-phenylalanine have much of an anti-dopamine effect.
Posted by fachad on May 1, 2002, at 10:49:32
In reply to Stimulant Holidays, also l-tyrosine supplements, posted by 3 Beer Effect on April 30, 2002, at 22:55:52
I've take Tyrosine (Twinlabs is the best formulation) before I ever took pstims to help boost dopamine and after I started pstims to help combat dopamine depletion.
I've always wondered if there was any risk of a "Dopamine Syndrome" or a "Norephenepherine Syndrome" with this combo that would be parallel to what happens when a person on an SSRI takes tryptophan and gets "Serotonin Syndrome".
Anybody had any problems, or know of any research?
> Tolerance is a problem with any stimulant, even caffeine. I have not heard of poop-out being a problem with dex, ritalin, or adderall- the only stimulant that seems to poop out is Provigil (modafinil).
>
> If your stimulant seems to lose effectiveness or stops working, then take what is called a "stimulant holiday." If you stop taking the stimulant for about 7 days & then start retaking it, you will be back to square one & it will have full effectiveness again.
>
> You could take the amino acid supplement & dopamine precursor L-tyrosine 500 to 1500 mgs a day, which would help stave off any dopamine depletion from the stimulants, especially with Dexedrine or Adderall. Vitamin B6, C, & Folic Acid are necessary in order to metabolize l-tyrosine properly & l-tyrosine must be taken on an empty stomach. You could eat a bit of something with it as long as there is no protein in that food or drink- if there protein in it that protein & the l-tyrosine will compete for absorption.
>
> I found Twinlab makes excellent 'l-tyrosine' & other amino acid products, while I have had mixed effects with other manufacturers, including the often recommended Country Life. They make 'l-tyrosine' & 'l-tyrosine plus'. The 'l-tyrosine plus' already has enough vitamin B6 & C in it so the only other thing you have to take with it is a small amount of folic acid such as 400 mcg (which is the 100% RDA). But I personally think the l-tyrosine plus has too much vitamin C & B6 in it for multiple dosages & so you shouldn't take more than one pill of it/day which provides 250 mg of l-tyrosine. I take one of these TWINLAB 'l-tyrosine plus' pills in the morning & two regular TWINLAB 'l-tyrosine' 500 mg pills along with a folic acid 400 microgram pill, so I end up with 1250 mgs, which seems to work pretty well. A sugary sports drink with no protein in it, like Gatorade, is good to take with amino acids, I believe the sugar helps absorption. You shouldn't ever take more than 1500 mgs per day, because most the rest of it will be excreted in urine- & protein metabolizes to urea/uric acid & so too much protein can cause kidney problems or even kidney stones (ouch!).
>
> L-tyrosine has a slight stimulant & weight loss effect, & so you probably shouldn't take it before bed. Since you have to take it on an empty stomach, I usually wake up early in the morning, take it (have it sitting by your bedside so you can immediately go back to sleep), & then I go back to sleep for an hour.
>
> I would avoid supplemental L-phenylalanine with stimulants. Although L-phenylalanine has a stimulant effect to it, is a precursor to l-tyrosine, & crosses the blood brain barrier more easily while l-tyrosine is dependent on carrier uptake (which can often be saturated) the one major problem with it when taken as a supplement is that is depletes dopamine & norepinephrine. I don't think they know why it does this, but the results of experiments with it have had similar outcomes- it seems to act more as a mild antidepressant rather than a stimulant when compare to l-tyrosine. I wouldn't worry about how much l-phenylalanine is in the food you eat, it is an essential amino acid, & you get plenty from a normal diet. I doubt normal food sources of l-phenylalanine have much of an anti-dopamine effect.
Posted by katekite on May 1, 2002, at 11:50:33
In reply to Stimulant Holidays, also l-tyrosine supplements, posted by 3 Beer Effect on April 30, 2002, at 22:55:52
I may have to reread that to digest it all... maybe taking tyrosine would help with that.
So a question: is the reason you say tyrosine would especially help stave off tolerance with dexedrine or adderall (but not ritalin) be that dex and adderall are mostly dopamine releasers vs. ritalin which is not?
Can ritalin be described as having a mechanism analogous to a re-uptake inhibitor? Is the effect of interfering with the dopamine transporter the same? Do dopamine producing neurons even have a re-uptake mechanism in the way serotonin ones do?
Do you know of any textbooks which deal with this subject in depth? I got out my old neuroscience (Kandel) and biochemistry (Stryker but old) and they are woefully unhelpful.
kate
Posted by katekite on May 1, 2002, at 12:18:27
In reply to Dexadrine + Tyrosine = NE or DA Syndrome? » 3 Beer Effect, posted by fachad on May 1, 2002, at 10:49:32
I'm just guessing here, would think it would be similar to the look of stimulant overdose with high or labile blood pressure, sped up heart, nausea/diarrhea, manic-like or even psychotic behavior. Seems like a continuum to me between normal and sympathetic overdrive, but maybe there are some setpoints or yes/no things where it gets way out of control.
I wonder if serotonin syndrome is actually a continuum of some sort. That is, what would happen if one could hold everything else constant and vary only serotonin. Does the syndrome suddenly start at some level or is it gradual?
Then the complete opposite of your 'NE/DA syndrome', in a way, would be neuroleptic malignant syndrome, NMS, which occurs as an idiosyncratic reaction to antipsychotics and also to abrupt withdrawal of parkinson's meds: fever, rigidity, other weird signs relating to suddenly not having enough dopamine/norepinephrine. Tend to have low dopamine and very high epinephrine. Another reason not to stop supplements suddenly.kate
Posted by Katalina on May 1, 2002, at 12:22:32
In reply to does dexedrine/adderall poop-out? » Katalina, posted by katekite on April 30, 2002, at 14:08:43
> I was always berated for having no willpower....not overweight just lazy and scattered... so ritalin was a godsend... I am trying them all to see which is best and am now trying dexedrine spansules. I like it so far, less control of concentration than ritalin but more energy.... adderall is next.
>
> Anyhow, just curious how long you've been on it? I hear scary reports that it stops working and don't want that to happen.
>
> kate~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kate,
I tried Ritalin first (about 7 months ago now) and felt teriffic for about a month and then felt it wasn't helping as much as it was previously. I then went to Adderall and find it much more effective in that it helps my overall mood and ability to multi-task without getting irritated. When I was on the Ritalin I would be down in the basement labeling rubbermaid containers like I was in freaking Disney World, it was nice because I think I accomplished more in one week on Ritalin than I did in the prior 3 years of my life. Anyway, I then asked to switch to Adderall just to see how different it was. I felt almost euphoric as first . . . don't know if it was the finally feeling normal or if it was true euphoria. I've been on Adderall for about 4-5 months now and haven't had any real tolerance issues. I think people think they're tolerant because they lose the initial euphoria after a week or month and then increase. I did increase from 20-30 in the first month and some days am tempted to take more, but I know that that would be setting myself up for a bad pattern (besides I would run out at the end of the month and be non-functioning!).
I don't think Adderall poops out any quicker than anyother stim (at least I have yet to hear that). I have taken a couple weekend holidays from Adderall (sucked - felt like my old self, not necessarily withdrawal, just feeling unmotivated again). Since combining the Klonopin with the Adderall 2 months ago I haven't had to take any holidays and the Adderall seems effective every time. I really think that benzos and stims can work synergestically (sp?). I know for myself I'm feeling better than I ever have - relaxed and calm yet focused and able to do what I need to do without tormenting myself about it. I feel like I finally feel like the rest of the normal world (whomever that is?)
Take care,
Katalina
Posted by katekite on May 1, 2002, at 14:41:59
In reply to Re: does dexedrine/adderall poop-out? » katekite, posted by Katalina on May 1, 2002, at 12:22:32
I'm sure there is one. (normal person)
I'm going to give adderall a go next week.
Thanks for your response, that's great how long its maintained its effects for you.Ritalin has me relaxed not getting anything useful done but being focussed nonetheless (today, for example). Dexedrine has me getting so much done I'll sprain something, with less focus. Hopefully adderall is inbetween.
thanks,
kate
Posted by jazzaholic on June 24, 2002, at 19:00:17
In reply to Stimulant Sub. for Depressant Addiction in Psy., posted by 3 Beer Effect on April 26, 2002, at 1:17:22
Having gotten benefits from Adderall, I wanted to try to stop the gradual loss of effectiveness and tried Didrex and phentermine along with it. I know this is bad to do and am going to stop. I was wondering of the known health risks in misuse of these drugs like this.
This is the end of the thread.
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