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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Krazy Kat on April 19, 2002, at 14:19:45
I'm not quite sure where to post this, so here goes:
I am trying to define this "flatness" that I get when on Depakote. I think it would be summized as anhedonia, but I'm not sure. My pdoc seems confused by it as well.
IsoM, others, can you help me understand what anhedonia feels, or rather does not feel, like? I'm not deeply depressed, certainly not high, but i have no interest in things and my energy level is low. i seem to be more "selfish" - not as caring about my husband's concerns.
I've been on Provigil but the heart palps are starting up again and i sometimes get very paranoid on it. anyway, it doesn't seem to be helping the flatness at all anyway.
Thanks!
- kk
Posted by IsoM on April 19, 2002, at 17:54:58
In reply to anhedonia (from Depakote) - IsoM and others, posted by Krazy Kat on April 19, 2002, at 14:19:45
KK, I'm feeling the anhedonia now & will try to give as unbiased a description as I can when I feel like this. (Ran out of the adrafinil from the one company & the other order hasn't come in yet - been over a month with adrafinil & am I EVER bleak.)
Like you feel now, I feel more selfish - maybe it's not selfish, but I just don't give a damn about other people emotionally, but because, logically, I know it's not really "me' that's feeling this, I'm trying my best to compensate & not be an absolute bitch. I'm really having to push the logical side of me to do anything as the emotional side is just about dead now. The logical side of me knows if I just ride this out till the adrafinil comes, I'll be fine so I push to act 'normal'. If I didn't know it would lift, I'm not sure what I would do.
For me, anhedonia includes:
- food doesn't taste as good, or something like that. I don't enjoy eating & don't feel like doing so.
- my kitties try to cuddle up to me & get petted (they really feel the difference) so I give them 'luvies' the best I can, but find no pleasure in holding & cuddling them. Most of the time, it feels so nice & calming.
- I look at sweet children & think "yuck! ...kids."
- sunny, nice days do nothing for me
- went to work in my garden yesterday to see if I could be brightened up & felt no better. Instead felt overwhelmed with what had to be done.
- things I think normally are funny strike me instead as stupid & asinine
- don't want to read, or watch favourite shows, or talk to people, or do anything really
- see absolutely no point in life, in getting out of bed, in living even but do it all out of rote
- view all things with a jaundiced, bitter attitude
- could care less about life & everything - while I don't feel suicidal or anything, if the world ceased to exist, it would be perfectly fine with me. And yes, my energy level is very low but I have to push that too.Sorry, that I sound so miserable & I don't even want anyone's sympathy (I rather throw it back at them) but this is me with anhedonia - flat, bitter, & bleak. You're not sad, but are UNhappy (without happiness), you're not angry, but without anger or concern. Somehow you'll "know" deep down that it's not how you really are & not how you were as a child.
Posted by Ron Hill on April 19, 2002, at 20:47:45
In reply to anhedonia (from Depakote) - IsoM and others, posted by Krazy Kat on April 19, 2002, at 14:19:45
> IsoM, others, can you help me understand what anhedonia feels, or rather does not feel, like?
----------------
KK,Depakote caused anhedonia (and anergy) in me as well.
Here is the dictionary definition:
Anhedonia: Loss of the capacity to experience pleasure. The inability to gain pleasure from normally pleasurable experiences. Anhedonia is a core clinical feature of depression, schizophrenia, and some other mental illnesses.
An anhedonic mother finds no joy from playing with her baby. An anhedonic football fan is not excited when his team wins. An anhedonic teenager feels no pleasure from passing the driving test.
"Anhedonia" is derived from the Greek "a-" (without) "hedone" (pleasure, delight). Other words derived from "hedone" include hedonism (a philosophy that emphasizes pleasure as the main aim of life), hedonist (a pleasure-seeker), and hedonophobia (an excessive and persistent fear of pleasure).
-- Ron
Posted by Ron Hill on April 19, 2002, at 20:54:10
In reply to Re: anhedonia (from Depakote) - IsoM and others, posted by IsoM on April 19, 2002, at 17:54:58
Posted by IsoM on April 19, 2002, at 21:08:10
In reply to Help (meds) on the way. Do not throw it back at me (nm) » IsoM, posted by Ron Hill on April 19, 2002, at 20:54:10
Ah, Ron... If only you had given me a free supply of SAM-e to be your new poster girl for SAM-e & let me spout off all its benefits. That, or at least sent me a free mug like Beire-dei got, I wouldn't be scheming up these nefarious plots about you.
Oh, I'm bleak alright, but I've got the sense not to get upset with innocent others. And the sense of humour remains somewhat, but it's rather black humour. Trying to channel my feelings of tension & frustration into spring cleaning. I'm going nuts throwing out useless stuff & bagging other stuff that is useful, but not to me, for the hospital thrift shop. Wish I had a handy dumpster nearby. Hmmm, I might make a midnight trip to some big store's dumpster.
Posted by Ritch on April 19, 2002, at 23:37:08
In reply to anhedonia (from Depakote) - IsoM and others, posted by Krazy Kat on April 19, 2002, at 14:19:45
> I'm not quite sure where to post this, so here goes:
>
> I am trying to define this "flatness" that I get when on Depakote. I think it would be summized as anhedonia, but I'm not sure. My pdoc seems confused by it as well.
>
> IsoM, others, can you help me understand what anhedonia feels, or rather does not feel, like? I'm not deeply depressed, certainly not high, but i have no interest in things and my energy level is low. i seem to be more "selfish" - not as caring about my husband's concerns.
>
> I've been on Provigil but the heart palps are starting up again and i sometimes get very paranoid on it. anyway, it doesn't seem to be helping the flatness at all anyway.
>
> Thanks!
>
> - kkK.K.
I can't handle more than 250mg of Depakote a day or I get flattened out too. It works marvelously for dysphoria, but little else. What other meds are you taking? Could they be troublemakers instead? I think you mentioned that you were diagnosed schizo-affective. Here is a tidbit that might be helpful or not-but if you can tolerate AP's I found Risperdal (very low dose) combined with a very low-dose of Adderall WITH Neurontin worked fantastic. BUT, I get EPS from everything and got cogwheel ridgity (off/on sensations when I walked) from the Risperdal. So, it got stopped. But there was NO anhedonia stuff on that combo.
hope this helps,
Mitch
Posted by ChrisK on April 20, 2002, at 5:37:51
In reply to anhedonia (from Depakote) - IsoM and others, posted by Krazy Kat on April 19, 2002, at 14:19:45
KK,
I had a big problem with anhedonia for a long time. The one med that brought me out of it was Mirapex. I don't know if it could help in your case but I have heard of others who have had a good reaction to it.
I take it in addition to Nortriptyline and Zyprexa. I never tried it while on a med that made me emotionless (and I've tried enough of them.) IMO meds like Depakote are made to make you feel flat. They eliminate both the highs and lows. For me, Nortriptyline eliminates my lows but I was just having a hard time finding joy in anything. Now (w/Mirapex) I can enjoy a round of golf or a nice dinner.
It's a Parkinson's med so it is definitely an off label use but I was able to find a few studies that show it working aas an AD.
Good Luck finding something that helps,
Chris
Posted by Krazy Kat on April 20, 2002, at 10:56:46
In reply to Re: anhedonia (from Depakote) - IsoM and others, posted by IsoM on April 19, 2002, at 17:54:58
that was really helpful - thank you. i look forward to hearing about your improvement when the meds come in.
- kk
Posted by Krazy Kat on April 20, 2002, at 11:01:01
In reply to Re: anhedonia (from Depakote) - IsoM and others » Krazy Kat , posted by Ritch on April 19, 2002, at 23:37:08
Mitch:
Thanks a lot - I will add that as a possibilty to my list for my Dr.
I am only on a high dose of Depakote right now. I had two semi-serious suicide attempts in the last year when i went off it, so my pdoc wants to get that straightened out first. so, i'm not suicidal, but i'm not feeling anything either.
anyway, i'll keep the ap in mind - thanks. ad's apparently make me high and just exacerbate the problem. i think the diagnosis is getting more firmly set as bipolar now.
- kk
Posted by Krazy Kat on April 20, 2002, at 11:02:07
In reply to Re: anhedonia (from Depakote) - IsoM and others » Krazy Kat , posted by ChrisK on April 20, 2002, at 5:37:51
Posted by fluffy on September 10, 2004, at 18:03:53
In reply to thanks so much everyone for the quick responses! (nm), posted by Krazy Kat on April 20, 2002, at 11:02:07
Hi Krazy Kat--
I read your post and identified with it so much. I've pretty much got all that stuff going on. I'm taking 750mg of Depakote for rapid cycling bipolar II, which is the only thing that's slowed the cycling. I also take .25 mg of Risperdal for agitation and sleep. However, now I feel totally flat with no emotions.
I was wondering if you have tried adding something on to battle this. I'm thinking of bringing up Mirapex with my doctor. (someone suggested it earlier in this thread) I tried Abilify instead of the Risp., but it activated me to the point of insanity. But I can't help but feel this has something to do with all that dopamine blockage.
I am at my wit's end with this anhedonia sh!t. Any insights helpful (from anyone!)
thanks in advance,
Katy
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