![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fachad on April 7, 2002, at 7:52:42
What is the pathological state that is the polar opposite to anxiety?
As Mania is to Depression, Anxiety is to ????
Whatever it is, I think that's (part) of what I have. I don't ever feel anxiety, even when it would be an appropriate response. All kinds of bad things can be going on in my life and I appear calm from the outside - inside I am numb or I am melancholy. But never anxious.
Does anybody else have this, or at least know what to call it?
Posted by mike21 on April 7, 2002, at 8:46:30
In reply to Polar Opposite of Anxiety (Dep:Mania as Anx??), posted by fachad on April 7, 2002, at 7:52:42
I feel like depression is in some ways my brain's
reaction to anxiety, i.e. it is a mode of
conservatism it switches to when my thoughts
become uncontrollable. I wouldn't be suprised if
anxiety and mania were closely linked.Mike
> What is the pathological state that is the polar opposite to anxiety?
>
> As Mania is to Depression, Anxiety is to ????
>
> Whatever it is, I think that's (part) of what I have. I don't ever feel anxiety, even when it would be an appropriate response. All kinds of bad things can be going on in my life and I appear calm from the outside - inside I am numb or I am melancholy. But never anxious.
>
> Does anybody else have this, or at least know what to call it?
Posted by djmmm on April 7, 2002, at 9:12:06
In reply to Polar Opposite of Anxiety (Dep:Mania as Anx??), posted by fachad on April 7, 2002, at 7:52:42
How about apathy?...it's not necessarily part of the DSM but it sure seems prevalent. It is at least the consequence of long term SSRI therapy, and SSRIs are almost given out like candy for every type of anxiey disorder.
> What is the pathological state that is the polar opposite to anxiety?
>
> As Mania is to Depression, Anxiety is to ????
>
> Whatever it is, I think that's (part) of what I have. I don't ever feel anxiety, even when it would be an appropriate response. All kinds of bad things can be going on in my life and I appear calm from the outside - inside I am numb or I am melancholy. But never anxious.
>
> Does anybody else have this, or at least know what to call it?
Posted by IsoM on April 7, 2002, at 13:35:31
In reply to Polar Opposite of Anxiety (Dep:Mania as Anx??), posted by fachad on April 7, 2002, at 7:52:42
I think djmmm summed it up well. Anxiety is a strong emotional-type reaction, the opposite of which is calm/relaxation/contentment. What you're experiencing is the lack of any reaction - apathy, anhedonia. Apathy seems to be the lack of the negative state of anxiety, & anhedonia, the lack of the positive state of calmness, relaxation, contentment.
Posted by 2sense on April 8, 2002, at 13:14:01
In reply to Re: Polar Opposite of Anxiety (Dep:Mania as Anx??) » fachad, posted by IsoM on April 7, 2002, at 13:35:31
Hi -- I'm new. I agree with what your saying. How much of what we experience is circumstance, or external stressors. I recognize that having been given certain genetics and/or having been taught solid coping mechanisms PLUS good support systems have a lot to do with a person's state of mind.
I never had depression or anything until I moved to where I currently live, became a stay at home mom with a bonus (and very loved child) baby, had children with AD/HD and had to "deal" with the school. I used to teach college and then worked at government labs in their supercomputing facilities. I worked out, my kids and marriage were great, we had support systems, -- I am sure you see what I am getting at. We moved here and bam ... it is the #2 spot for SAD, women are considered a little above property, I can't find a job now that the little one is in school because women here aren't supposed to know 'stuff'. I recognize the obvious answer is to move to more of a melting pot area -- and we are working towards that, but with three children and two careers there is a lot that goes into it -- some of which will be unavoidable stress, but life is stress I suppose it is how you deal with it -- and I have just gone full circle :-).
Just my 2sense
Posted by Ponder on April 8, 2002, at 18:58:42
In reply to Re: Polar Opposite of Anxiety (Dep:Mania as Anx??), posted by mike21 on April 7, 2002, at 8:46:30
Interesting point regarding the link between hypomania and anxiety. I often can't tell the difference. That wound up, hypervigilant, let's-get-this-show-on-the-road feeling often happens to me under stress, but also shares components with hypomania. Seems my monitoring of this illness would be more effective if I could distinguish between these two states.
Posted by Ron Hill on April 9, 2002, at 1:13:34
In reply to Anxiety vs. Hypomania, posted by Ponder on April 8, 2002, at 18:58:42
> Interesting point regarding the link between hypomania and anxiety. I often can't tell the difference. That wound up, hypervigilant, let's-get-this-show-on-the-road feeling often happens to me under stress, but also shares components with hypomania. Seems my monitoring of this illness would be more effective if I could distinguish between these two states.
I agree with you, Ponder. At the same time, a distinction should perhaps be made between the dysphoric hypomania you refer to in your post, and the milder mannered, quick witted, full of ideas cousin called euphoric hypomania. Same last name, but totally different critters!
-- Ron
Posted by Ponder on April 9, 2002, at 12:36:54
In reply to Re: Anxiety vs. Hypomania » Ponder, posted by Ron Hill on April 9, 2002, at 1:13:34
> > Interesting point regarding the link between hypomania and anxiety. I often can't tell the difference. That wound up, hypervigilant, let's-get-this-show-on-the-road feeling often happens to me under stress, but also shares components with hypomania. Seems my monitoring of this illness would be more effective if I could distinguish between these two states.
>
> I agree with you, Ponder. At the same time, a distinction should perhaps be made between the dysphoric hypomania you refer to in your post, and the milder mannered, quick witted, full of ideas cousin called euphoric hypomania. Same last name, but totally different critters!
>
> -- RonRon, where can I trade in my dysphoric hypomania for it's cousin? Sounds like a good trade! Does one ever feel calm during hypomania? Or is it always a little pressured?
Posted by Ron Hill on April 9, 2002, at 14:37:09
In reply to Re: Anxiety vs. Hypomania » Ron Hill, posted by Ponder on April 9, 2002, at 12:36:54
> Ron, where can I trade in my dysphoric hypomania for it's cousin? Sounds like a good trade!
Yes, I like the milder mannered cousin better also, but he's got problems too. For example, he often talks too much, talks too loud, and he says and does socially inappropriate things.
>Does one ever feel calm during hypomania? Or is it always a little pressured?
Both cousins are a little pressured, IMHO. Dys has his "get outta my way I'm in a hurry" pressure, while Eu has his pressured speech issues. Better to find the middle ground between mania and depression, I guess.
-- Ron
Posted by 2sense on April 10, 2002, at 12:40:47
In reply to Re: Anxiety vs. Hypomania » Ponder, posted by Ron Hill on April 9, 2002, at 14:37:09
> > Ron, where can I trade in my dysphoric hypomania for it's cousin? Sounds like a good trade!
>
> Yes, I like the milder mannered cousin better also, but he's got problems too. For example, he often talks too much, talks too loud, and he says and does socially inappropriate things.
>
> >Does one ever feel calm during hypomania? Or is it always a little pressured?
>
> Both cousins are a little pressured, IMHO. Dys has his "get outta my way I'm in a hurry" pressure, while Eu has his pressured speech issues. Better to find the middle ground between mania and depression, I guess.
>
> -- Ron
I am interested to know from any one (some, many, all) of your individual points of view what you as a person (not a/your doctor's interpretation and/or definition) would define, explain, write about, as far as more exactly what your/the symptoms of hypomania are? I am also very interested for what it means, as best as one can articulate, what exactly is meant by the term pressured speech -- as I have seen it clinically defined differently -- and my own psychiatrist says it is just talking fast -- any takers? I ask this because being originally from NJ and from a very large family -- I talk very fast. Additionally I process very quickly -- I have AD/HD and have had several psycho-educational evaluations. I have for instance great difficulty decoding large words and have absolutely no sense of direction on the flip side I have a photographic memory, a high IQ, and process information very quickly both in-coming and then being able to put it out quickly. The latter one is the one I have had to modify, as people become overwhelmed and understandably so. AD/HD has good "symptoms" and not so good, hypersensitivity (a slight might hurt me more than someone with thicker skin -- "roll with the punches" -- my mother said this to me constantly growing up. I didn't know anything about the existence of AD/HD I just thought I was a baby and had to get a thicker skin and grow up ... which of course feeds early on into the low(ered) self-esteem. I am sure I am "preaching" to the choir -- you all just have so much to give, so much information and ideas.. and I really appreciate your willingness to share it with others.Just my 2sense..
Posted by Ron Hill on April 11, 2002, at 1:52:42
In reply to Re: Anxiety vs. Hypomania » Ron Hill, posted by 2sense on April 10, 2002, at 12:40:47
> I am interested to know from any one (some, many, all) of your individual points of view what you as a person (not a/your doctor's interpretation and/or definition) would define, explain, write about, as far as more exactly what your/the symptoms of hypomania are?
What is hypomania like?:
restlessness
fast thoughts, ideas flowing
high energy
desire to do something
joy in spending
interest in uncharacteristic flirting sexually
markedly disinhibited
overactive
expressing grandiose ideation.
>I am also very interested for what it means, as best as one can articulate, what exactly is meant by the term pressured speech -- as I have seen it clinically defined differently -- and my own psychiatrist says it is just talking fast -- any takers?What I call "pressured speech" is when someone else is talking and I feel this overwhelming need to give my verbal response before the other person is finished. It's a social appropriateness issue. It's like I'm afraid I will forget my train of thought if I wait until the other person is finished. And besides, what I need to say is REALLY IMPORTANT, whereas, as far as I'm concerned, all the other person is saying is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and more blah (i.e. stuff I already know)!
Sue, I don't know you, so please do not feel that you need to answer my question unless you want to. Here's my question: How do you know that what you think is ADHD is not, in reality, bipolar hypomania (or mania)?
-- Ron
Posted by 2sense on April 11, 2002, at 18:22:32
In reply to Hypomania » 2sense, posted by Ron Hill on April 11, 2002, at 1:52:42
Ron --
I guess I have been evaluated for AD/HD and the bipolar stuff so many times and out of the 100 symptoms for AD/HD I have like 85% and really none of the bipolar. The hypomania thing is interesting ... but right now I have to concentrate on the brain lesions and seizure problem. My doctor got me an emergency appointment tomorrow (i.e., before office hours usually start) with the neurologist. Where the lesions are will I guess tell me a lot. Anyway, if you'd like to -- I'll answer any questions you'd like. I just have this thing going on, and then I have to have the heart fixed -- but "talking" to people about ideas and stuff makes the less than pleasant more bearable.
Thanks for caring.
Sue
Posted by IsoM on April 11, 2002, at 19:13:57
In reply to Re: Hypomania » Ron Hill, posted by 2sense on April 11, 2002, at 18:22:32
Sue, for me it's easy to tell that what I have is ADHD & not hypomania. I can feel euphoric with life & cheerful people but irritable as the same time with many people & everyday obstacles that arise in life. Because I generally have a sunny outlook on life (my natural state with depression treated & how I was as a little child), I can shrug off my irritation with people. I've learned that if I don't want them to be impatient & irritable with my weaknesses associated with ADHD, I should be patient with their weaknesses with whatever.
At work yesterday, I was dealing with an old guy - one of the type that invade your private space, & he was PAINFULLY slow! Poor guy, his hands & everything shook so much, he simply couldn't move any faster. No one would've guessed by my reactions - friendly, polite, helpful & courtesy of 'small talk' as I looked after things - but I was screaming inside & breathed a huge sigh of relief as he & his wife left. To me, that's one difference between ADHD & hypomania - the ability to train yourself & exercise self-control.
I, too, talk very quickly & process ideas at lightning speed, spitting them back out the same. But I can purposely slow down for others when needed. If I read blank looks, I know I'm not getting through. I'm good at 'dumbing' down info for others too. When I find someone who's highly intelligent, quick, & interested in the same things to talk with, I would appear perfectly manic to a disinterested onlooker. My mouth goes a mile-a-minute, my gesture wildly, my face practically glows & the interchange of ideas flash back & forth. But when they leave, although still exhilirated, I can revert to my "average/normal" mode & speech for others.
Another difference is (unless I'm asexual? - a joke), I've never felt these three that Ron's listed:
1. joy in spending (always have hating spending money - never had enough to),
2. interest in uncharacteristic flirting sexually (I've been told by others that I treat both men & women, beautiful or ugly, all with the same dignity),
3. expressing grandiose ideation (grand, complicated ideas maybe, but always knowing the difference between possible & impossible)"Another thing, when I've been very physically active for a couple of days, I'm physically & mentally exhausted the next day or so; I can sleep solid for long stretches & indeed, need to.
Today for example, after four intensely busy days, & a massive headache the last day too, I slept till 12:45 PM. But I had stuff to do & wanted to feel a little energetic so I took double my Dexedrine to perk up. Instead I returned to bed, sleeping another 3 hours. From what I've read & heard, hypomania doesn't have the ability to sleep as ADHD does. If anyone knows better, let me know.
I'm curious as to your age too. I'm 52 & I think years of practice have made me better at modifying my ADHD symptoms. I'm also better able to when I receive blank looks from others - a visual reminder. I have NO problems with ego OR self-esteem BUT I do feel frustrated with my limitations of ADHD (small working RAM, memory, you know the others).
Do you ever feel frustrated at slow speakers - jumping in to finish their sentences for them? I still do (the impulsiveness), but have to bite my lips to shut up at times. I end up avoiding slow thinkers too even if they're nice people - I can take them only in small doses.
Sue, have I missed something previously? What's with these brain lesions you mentioned & the seizures? WIlling to reiterate what you mentioned in an earlier thread to allow me to catch up?
Posted by IsoM on April 11, 2002, at 19:50:52
In reply to Re: Hypomania » Ron Hill, posted by 2sense on April 11, 2002, at 18:22:32
Sue, I went through some other threads & read about your hypothyrodisim (I have it too) & the seizures when you abruptly went off Klonopin. Is that the only reason they suspected problems & you had brain scans done or was there other indications for these lesions? any other problems related to your results or just those seizures? I find it fascinating, if you don't mind.
Posted by 2sense on April 12, 2002, at 13:05:07
In reply to Brain Lesions » 2sense, posted by IsoM on April 11, 2002, at 19:50:52
This is for Ron and Imo since they asked. I had a bout of optic neuritis 3 years nearly to the day 04/99 it wasn't a bad one, my sight was back in less than 2 weeks and they did a full 1 1/2 hour closed MRI and found nothing (no lesions, etc.). Since optic neuritis is usually the first presenting sign of Multiple Sclerosis (MS) we were very relieved that there were no lesions found. In the last three years I have had no episodes as they are called to indicate that I had MS or CDMS (clinically diagnosed multiple sclerosis -- which is a fine distinction in terms of how the MS manifests itself). As I did have pain in the eye and am white and a woman I had a high risk of developing CDMS within 5 years (if I was going to). At that time the ophthalmologist decided not to give me the interferon or cortisones or whatever therapy which is sometimes done (usually done when lesions are found w/ the optic neuritis) -- but when done it is found bouts of optic neuritis are more likely to occur in the fellow (other) eye or the same eye BUT the development of "full-blown" MS is staved off for up to 3 years. I have been monitored for the psychiatric issues (AD/HD, depression associated with the Hashimotos, and anxiety from a chronically stressful lifestyle -- often times I want to open a web site named: www.ifyouthinkthatyourhaveitbadjustreadthisandyouwillfeelawholelotbetter.com -- I had the hemorrhaging from fibroids since last May which made me very anemic (like needing a transfusion), my husband's company which is a start up NEEDS him desperately and has gone through 2 lay offs in less than 5 months (06/01 and 10/01) -- about late 09/01 my hubby developed a severe case of depression and began treatment (we lost people in 9-11 -- where I grew up is a bedroom community for people who hop on the train and go to the WTCs, etc.) and then the ER trips started for the hemorrhaging. I was passed from doctor to doctor in this ob practice and at one point was given Prometrium and it made me highly post partum depressed (after only 4 doses) – this was all around the end of November and the first part of December – it was decided to do a hysterscopy and a D&C to get me through the holidays and then do a hysterectomy (leaving in the ovaries – thank God instant menopause is one thing I did not need at that time). Also in October the psychiatric nurse who had been treating myself and family for AD/HD and husband for the depression moved to CO and the kids went to her boss, Dr. X and my husband and I went to Dr. Y the head of this place – now the eating disorder therapist and I have met about once a week for a year and made fabulous progress because it is all about control – and having once worked and staying at home with three LD children who have the genius IQ’s, AD/HD and a school district who attitude is, “Yeah, make me.” for the tiniest of requests (ex. an assignment sheet for instance when my oldest was in 3rd grade) makes for a lot of stress – hypersensitivity, etc. My husband and his AD/HD may be more than just that but he definitely has it – we’ve all been tested mucho times by different groups, people, etc. So Dr. Y. puts him on Effexor and he is sleeping all the time or at work while I am holding down the fort, and taking care of business and dealing with all the doctors, meds, 3 schools, etc. Dr. Y. tells me he thinks I have some sort of mood disorder and ups the Klonopin to 4 mgs. (This is around 11/00 – and I was having trouble sleeping so I wasn’t too resistant to the idea) – I did disagree and researched the heck out of the differing menu of mood disorders he proposed I might have. Well, late November Dr. Y has a massive stroke and cannot even read – it is very sad. So hubby and I are passed to Dr. X (the golf player). Now I had seen Dr. X like 5 years ago one time and then just went to his nurse because she gave a damn about environmental factors adding to the stress and just didn’t say: you have a thyroid disorder, a brother who might have bipolar and you talk fast – right and all flowers are tulips. So I have the hysterectomy (TAH) mid January and have some complications (infection in the incision, and a couple of other things and the surgeon just blows me off – so I go to a colleague of his and she says – yep it is infected here’s a course of Cypro, go get an IVP, etc.) The IVP comes back reporting I have a filling defect indicative of bladder cancer so off to the urologist I go (no one exactly knows why the Synthroid keeps the antibodies of the Hashimoto’s at bay and levels out your TSH BUT I didn’t know and no one told me I found it in the PDR that taking iron (which I was due to the anemia) and Synthroid basically lowers the effectiveness of the Synthroid AND emotional and/or physical stress reactivates the antibodies … which puts your body back into hypothyroid and depression is the first thing to strike – now I am on the Wellbutrin SR 150 mg 2X a day – it cuts my smoking to nearly nothing and hasn’t those yucky side effects and you all know what I mean – the urologist gave me a cystoscopy and said all was fine – found the IVP films but the radiologist who read them was there that day – eventually they decided I should have an abdominal ultra sound (which I had one week after the TAH because I had a couple small blood clots) … that got put off because I ventured to the library on 02/19/02 with my 13 year old daughter (I love books of all kinds) and was there maybe 10 minutes in the stacks and knew I was going to faint (near syncope –sink co pea) so I drop down put my head between my knees and then the tachycardia started (I had my first Summer of 1981 thought it was an allergic reaction – your heart goes like three hundred miles a minute and if not short circuited (for you computer people you need to control-C it – well if you’re Unix anyway) via manipulation of the vagal nerve it just goes on (and it damages the heart by making the muscles stronger but the more episodes the weaker it becomes and add the anemia to it and … I have been through all kinds of tests to attempt to get an “attack” on an EKG but haven’t – my only success in stopping them is sticking my head (within the first 30-40 seconds or so) in ice water (a bath tub is always good makes for a bad hair day though … gotta keep your sense of humor) – well I knew the layout of the building and there were no bathtubs, and the sinks were too shallow (and toilets, … well) they restrooms were to far away anyway … and I knew of no janitor closet – so I crawled to the reference section and used my cell phone to call my husband and then the head librarian (a friend thank God) to call the ambulance (which the local one is right behind the community building and the police are housed there also – so I had fast service – in parallel I was studying the reference books to see if I had the bad (ventricle tach versus atrial tach and also who were the best doctors … I know I know what a person I must be). So I go to the hospital (they got it on EKG) and I am chest x-rayed and admitted for a stress test that involved c scans and something they inject – bottom line my plumbing was excellent but my electricity needed repair (they think it is an AV reentrant tachycardia (AVRT). re-entry problem – so I found the best (and right here in river city) and that appointment is next Tuesday – that will be an electrophisology test and an ablation of the offending node (if they find nothing else – it is done – like an angioplasty through the groin, etc.) I haven’t been permitted to drive since. Ok .. So two weeks before Easter I found out my parents and sister and husband are coming in on Good Friday and of course the family decided to get the flu like dominoes and I am up and down and my Klonopin script runs out and the doctor can’t see me until 09/06 and we’re talking over the phone because I want off of this stuff (I also became lax in making certain that my Wellbutrin doses were at least 6 hours a part which lowers one’s seizure threshold especially if one has an eating disorder (my blood sugar was low, my electrolytes were off – found this out in the hospital for the heart) – OK I decide to get the script filled and call in Tuesday the week before Easter and the doc didn’t call it in, I called again Wed and it was there Thursday night but my husband the only one who can drive at the moment and there is just so much you can ask of your friends (and yes I am aware this is long and a brain dump but I have told many because they keep asking so it is like writing on automatic pilot) … I do not sleep at all Thursday night (another seizure threshold lowering thing, as is caffeine – you have to keep in mind all the “stars” were lined up and the button pusher was the Klonpin cold turkey (I was on 4 mg.). So on Good Friday my husband gets the meds and I would have taken them and gone to bed but the family is coming in at 6 or 7 PM from NJ – so I am on the bed at 6 reading P is for Peril (Q is for Quarry is coming out … just one of the genres I like) and suddenly I am on the floor on my side my husband is holding me and asking me what day it is, who my best friend is and who is president. I am annoyed I figured I fell off the bed when I fell asleep reading and he was making a big deal. No, no my 13 year old walked in right at the start of the grand mal and saw the whole thing and scared the **** out of her – Eric the son called 911 Madeline the 6 year old was told to stay downstairs and suddenly the room is filled with state EMTs asking the same questions. I am on the stretcher being taken down the outside steps when my parents drive into the driveway (you’d have to know my Dad to see the humor in this .. I know I shouldn’t be making light of this) .. Our neighbor who is a doctor was vaulting up the front yard to talk to the kids and Bob who was putting his shoes on to follow the ambulance – I couldn’t resist but I called to my husband and said, “It is George W. before that it was his father with that other guy in between.” Okay now you all know what my politics lean towards. I get to the hospital again and am on a gurney for 2 ½ hours and in a room finally for 3 hours and when all is said and done I get to go home (it was midnight) and take the Klonopin. Easter weekend ends and Monday all leave and I call my internist who sees me Tuesday and schedule me for an EEG and an MRI the next Monday and Tuesday (that would be this week). Suddenly Dr. X can see me Friday – so we all go and we as a family see the therapist to talk through the trauma of the kids and the grand mal. Okay EEG Monday and MRI Tuesday (w/ general anesthetic – closed MRIs are coffins for me) – Wednesday the doctor calls (the internist and says that they found a seizure focus on the left front temporal lobe of my brain – meaning I am prone to seizure but may have never had one if I hadn’t cold turkeyed the Klonipin (which that is not specifically stated – tapering yes, talk to your doctor yes, but you have to dig deep to find that you can have a grand mal doing that) this info was derived from the neurologist who saw me today at 8 (he normally couldn’t until August but found my case fascinating) – the MRI the internist said had lesions. So the neurologist today showed us and said that they are very tiny and if I hadn’t have had the optic neuritis he wouldn’t be making the 90% diagnosis of MS today but he is – he expects given it started with the ON it will be very mild. After the heart is fixed he is going to start me on injections (daily) that keep it at bay and slow its progress AND today he put me on the anti-convulsant Carbamazepine (generic name) brand: Tegretol. I talked to Dr. Y and he is overjoyed since it too is a mood stabilizer but wants to see if I can tolerate before considering taking me off the Klonopin. OK who knows anything about: generic: Carbamazepine AKA brand: Tegretol AND/OR Copaxone (that's the daily injection for the MS -- this is a doctor who is an agressive treater even with the mild symptoms, etc.)? Guys this has only been what the last couple of months – it has been like this for 6 ½ years ever since I started staying home and moved to where I am .. Which I suppose has to stay a secret right? Strong faith in God and a good sense of humor – that is what keeps me going the shock absorbers of life. Disclaimer: If I offended anyone, I sincerely apologize for it was not my intention, but nonetheless I am sorry – if this was inappropriate to put on the board, again I apologize … if by chance it helped anyone with anything – Thank the Good Lord… and that is a whole lot more than 2sense J
Sue
PS Like you need one, I ran this through the spell check but didn’t really proof it hope I didn’t make an full idiot of myself J. Anxious to hear from you all.
Posted by 2sense on April 12, 2002, at 13:48:27
In reply to ADHD vs Hypomania » 2sense, posted by IsoM on April 11, 2002, at 19:13:57
Ismo --
First sorry I spelled your name wrong in my last long post. It has been a long crummy day and I do really want to read this post and respond because from what you are describing I just don't have the hypomania, just the AD/HD. Even the description either Ron or John gave of pressured speech, I don't have that either. I just talk fast. When I taught college I told my students I was from NJ and talked fast (this was in CO). I gave out my notes, wrote on the chalk board and invited them to raise their hand or let me know if I had gone over something to fast (and if they didn't want to do it in front of the whole class -- email me or slip a note under my door -- being too shy can be a real problem for a bright student who doesn't grasp an initial concept that grows). Being in computer science at the research stage I was a systems person and also taught a lot of data structures as well as theory and architecture. One well known data structure is the stack (like the plates in a cafeteria on the spring-thing) -- all the grad students and profs talked in a stack-like way (and collectively they were all ages, genders, etc.) -- going from one subject triggered by discussion of another, but always returning to the original topic to finish it. It was like a top down approach to talkiing and thinking/processing. Not everyone thinks that way and that's no problem, not everyone does anything the same exact way -- I make adjustments and am a perpetual student -- I want to learn everything I can about anything -- I wonder if that is a disorder :-) Thanks for writing back and I'll give it a good read because you had a lot of good info I've wondered about for awhile.
Sue
Posted by 2sense on April 21, 2002, at 13:12:46
In reply to Hypomania » 2sense, posted by Ron Hill on April 11, 2002, at 1:52:42
I wrote:
>I am interested to know from any one (some, many, all) of your individual points of view what you as a person (not a/your doctor's interpretation and/or definition) would define, explain, write about, as far as more exactly what your/the symptoms of hypomania are?You responded (and a belated thank you and to all who did) with the following in response to my question: What is hypomania like?:
restlessness
fast thoughts, ideas flowing
high energy
desire to do something
joy in spending
interest in uncharacteristic flirting sexually
markedly disinhibited
overactive
expressing grandiose ideation.I wrote:
>I am also very interested for what it means, as best as one can articulate, what exactly is meant by the term pressured speech -- as I have seen it clinically defined differently -- and my own psychiatrist says it is just talking fast -- any takers?You responded with:
What I call "pressured speech" is when someone else is talking and I feel this overwhelming need to give my verbal response before the other person is finished. It's a social appropriateness issue. It's like I'm afraid I will forget my train of thought if I wait until the other person is finished. And besides, what I need to say is REALLY IMPORTANT, whereas, as far as I'm concerned, all the other person is saying is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and more blah (i.e. stuff I already know)!You then asked (so for being so belated in responding) …
Sue, I don't know you, so please do not feel that you need to answer my question unless you want to. Here's my question: How do you know that what you think is ADHD is not, in reality, bipolar hypomania (or mania)?
-- Ron
My answer:
My diagnosis of ADHD has come from seven (7) different psychiatrists. Two (2) of those psych-docs believe I have bi-polar because I talk fast (and they term it pressured speech) and I have the Hashimoto’s (which causes hypothyroidism) and thus and so 1 + 1 must equal bi-polar. The only problem is, is that both of these two (2) docs only saw me one time and the first one saw me five or six years ago with his beepers (2 of them) going off constantly and his phones (regular and (2) cell phones) and that is the only time he saw me (I then saw his psych-nurse who moved this past Oct.). The other psych-doc (same practice, head ‘banana’) saw me twice and decided at the end of the first session that I wasn’t bi-polar by hypomanic (which I go through all of this with the eating disorder therpist who works at this practice and she knows a bit about the personal(ity) side of those that work there. Now Klonopin can cause, among other things, hypomania, which is why I asked more preciously what people’s individual experiences were after (or before being diagnosed) with hypomania (or cyclomania) – these manias and mood stabilizer remind me of the early ‘90’s when Prozac and all the other SSRI’s hit the market I was a guinea pig since I had a psych-doc who specialized in eating disorders and so he had me try them all (of course all of my side effects were in my head – I later learned a) that they had ‘tested’ and then reported the side effects based on volunteers who were homeless MEN not women because the side effects for men and women are very well documented (like sexual dysfunction – all in my head for Prozac, Paxil, etc.); b) SSRI’s may work for bulimics but not for anorexics (at least not this one since mine is atypical and a reaction to stress – and my success with it comes with (and I am still learning) in therapy by relearning how to deal with stress given the set of circumstances I am in. Back to the ADHD diagnosis. Out of the CHADD (national web site for ADD/ADHD) 100 symptoms I have like over 90 – does that mean I don’t have other things – well when I started taking the Ritalin it was night and day for me – night and day. I know when I am on it I feel more in control with the ability to listen to someone go on and on and on and seemingly never get to the point, I always (and still do to a lesser degree and not as obvious) carried around a yellow legal pad and 2 number two pencils to write my thoughts so I could really listen to what the other person was saying but still remember what I might want to ask, add, etc. I have found that I can stand in lines for hours (and sometimes during the holidays the grocery lines are VERY long – I can tell my son 15 times, “Sweetheart did you remember to brush your teeth?” – OFF the ritalin I am very, very thin skinned and impatient and apt to blurt out things that will hurt someone when I do not mean to hurt anyone as I know that it is an awful feeling. I don’t know if that answered your question – I do feel like the psych-doc that had the massive stroke may or may not have had some physical issues the two times he saw me, especially the last time since he had the stroke 2 days later – the other guy well I feel much like a guinea pig – it isn’t the first time and it won’t be the last. THAT is why this board is invaluable – it is another resource – real time – to consult – interact with others and feedback to your own doctor from the board – NOT SPECIFICS – please confidentiality is the name of the game – but the problem with labeling me anything polar, or whatever is I don’t have any of the symptoms, my husband has told them, I even brought a close friend who hangs out with me a lot – this guy has decided and it reminds me of a child at Xmas who has decided he is going to wake up and find a pony in his backyard complete with a red bow elegantly tied around its neck. I need to deal with the other issues and the answer may be in finding a neuropsychiatrist – but that may be hard to come by given where I am living and recommendations are difficult to get out of doctors. I have a few “moles” so to speak who I call and ask, “If I were you mother/sister/daughter/aunt/neice, etc. and this was the situation WHAT WOULD YOU DO – WHO WOULD YOU SEE – HOW WOULD YOU PROCEED?” I don’t use them very much because when you have those options you don’t want to exhuast them when you may need them later on down the road. Hope that shed some light – maybe not – I am a perpetual student so I am willing to hear anyone’s input.2sense -- Sue
Posted by Ron Hill on April 22, 2002, at 1:27:28
In reply to Re: Hypomania » Ron Hill, posted by 2sense on April 21, 2002, at 13:12:46
Sue,
Yes, I had already come ot the conclusion that I was all wet with my "could you be bipolar hypomanic instead of ADHD" question. IsoM set me straight, indirectly of course, but I got the message.
I send you my best as you fight your various health battles.
-- Ron
Posted by 2sense on April 22, 2002, at 6:17:15
In reply to Re: Hypomania » 2sense, posted by Ron Hill on April 22, 2002, at 1:27:28
Thanks for being interested and caring about the other stuff. I feel lost like a little kid on Christmas Eve in Time Square -- negotiating the meds, the side effects to the meds, the many doctors, the insurance people -- who knows what I am -- but as Popeye used to say: "I am's who I am, and that's all that I am! I'm Popeye the Sailor man!"
Okay way beyond silly -- but it is 7:11 AM and I must get going -- the two older one are off to school and now the Kindergartener and her dad must be gotten up, etc....
Sue
This is the end of the thread.
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