![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 27 to 51 of 101. Go back in thread:
Posted by IsoM on March 20, 2002, at 16:57:28
In reply to SAM-e Induced Hypomania Colon, Mitch, IsoM et al, posted by Ron Hill on March 20, 2002, at 16:41:22
Ron, I'm cheap too. If it's a tablet, couldn't you just cut the pill in half? If it's a capsule, you can divide it by buying larger empty gelatin capsules at a drug store (they're cheap) & don't try to take the powder out of the SAMe capsule, but simply divide & stuff into two larger capsules, powder, half-capsule & all.
Posted by davex on March 20, 2002, at 19:03:16
In reply to Re: SAM-e, dividing the dose » Ron Hill, posted by IsoM on March 20, 2002, at 16:57:28
Be caution in dividing dose of SAM-e:
The substance must be absorbed in the Duodeno (second part of intestinal system) so it must pass inactive through stomach and first part of intestine.
This is the why it is prepared in gastro-intestinal resistant pills or capsules.
If you divide pills you risk to inactive the drug, cause it could be dangered by the acid in the stomach.
If you would prepare divide dose in capsule you must be sure to use gastro-intestinal resistant capsule.
Note that the pills are prepared in blisters with
acid environment to preserve its quality of gastro resistance.
You should never open the blister if not immediately before takeing the pill, if you do that you could danger its resistant skin.
In conclusion, sam-e is an extremely delicate preparation, to hand it could inactive it.
Posted by IsoM on March 20, 2002, at 19:33:00
In reply to Re: SAM-e, dividing the dose: caution., posted by davex on March 20, 2002, at 19:03:16
Posted by Ritch on March 21, 2002, at 0:17:56
In reply to SAM-e Induced Hypomania Colon, Mitch, IsoM et al, posted by Ron Hill on March 20, 2002, at 16:41:22
> Colon, Mitch, Isomer et al,
>
> Since I have been such a strong (outspoken) advocate for SAM-e on this board lately, I want to also be sure to report any and all problems with the "medication" so as to provide a balanced view.
>
> Please recall that I increased from 200 mg to 400 mg of SAM-e when I discontinued my low dose of Zoloft (12.5 mg/day) last week. Yesterday I began to feel a little hypomanic on the 400 mg/dose. Therefore, starting today, I've reduced my dose back down to 200 mg/day.
>
> Colin, I suspect I would do better with two doses of 100 mg spread out during the day as opposed to one dose of 200 mg. Therefore, I may order some of those 100 mg tablets you found on-line a few weeks ago. Thanks again for sharing that site with me. If I take two 100 mg tablets it costs 83 cents/day, whereas, if I take one 200 mg tablet it costs 59 cents/day. Bottom line is that the divided dose would cost me an extra $7.20 per month (or $86.40 per year).
>
> Someone that I have great respect for says "Over the lips, and through the fingertips, thoughts disentangle themselves". Prior to typing this post I was stubbornly resisting the idea of spending extra money solely to facilitate a divided dose. But now that I have it typed out and see it on paper (e-paper), I'm beginning to change my cheapskate mind.
>
> -- Ron
Hi Ron,Thanks for the "warning". I have been feeling even better lately. I am only taking Celexa 2.5mg 3x weekly (my only antidepressant). But, I am taking 2.5mg of Dexedrine every day (afternoons). I really must say-that with the SAM-e addition I almost feel like I could stop the Celexa. I have found more hypomania symptoms with it than I have the dexedrine or the SAM-e, even at its microdose. The thing is whether panic will start returning if I ditch it. Will SAM-e have any sort of antipanic effect that AD's typically provide for folks with PD??
Mitch
Posted by colin wallace on March 21, 2002, at 3:16:11
In reply to SAM-e Induced Hypomania Colon, Mitch, IsoM et al, posted by Ron Hill on March 20, 2002, at 16:41:22
Ron,
You didn't get any hypo. symptoms at 200mg daily did you? I'm sure you've considered just dropping back down to one 200mg pill , before you shell out extra for the 100mg pills.Also, do you think perhaps you may be experiencing some Zoloft withdrawal reaction (I know that sometimes this doesn't appear for a week or so after discontinuation.)
Still, at least if you grab a bottle or two of GNC 100mg pills, you'll be able to test out 300mg at some point!Colon (Gastrointestinal, enterically coated...)
Posted by Ron Hill on March 21, 2002, at 4:08:50
In reply to Re: SAM-e Induced Hypomania Colon, Mitch, IsoM et al » Ron Hill, posted by Ritch on March 21, 2002, at 0:17:56
> I have been feeling even better lately.
Mitch, I'm really glad that the SAM-e add-on is working well for you so far. How much are you currently taking? Still 250 mg?
>I am only taking Celexa 2.5mg 3x weekly (my only antidepressant). But, I am taking 2.5mg of Dexedrine every day (afternoons). I really must say-that with the SAM-e addition I almost feel like I could stop the Celexa. I have found more hypomania symptoms with it than I have the dexedrine or the SAM-e, even at its microdose. The thing is whether panic will start returning if I ditch it. Will SAM-e have any sort of antipanic effect that AD's typically provide for folks with PD??
I believe the answer is yes, however, since I do have PD as part of my formal dx, my experience may differ from yours. But for me, I have been pleasantly surprised by what I will call (for lack of a better term) a "soothing, calming, anti-irritability" effect. YMMV.
A couple of days ago, when you were so kind as to send me a list of your current meds, your wrote:
>Depakote 125-250mg hs (no tremor with Flax oil and the SAM-e!)
Klonopin .5mg hs
Neurontin 100mg tid
Dexedrine 5mg/day
Celexa 2.5mg every other dayYour note after the Depakote dose intrigues me. What I read into your statement, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that at one point in time Depakote caused tremors in you hands. But with the flax seed oil and SAM-e add-ons, the tremors are gone. Do I have it right? If so, my read would be that Depakote can, in some cases like yours, deplete dopamine levels. And, further, SAM-e and/or flax seed oil restore DA levels and/or DA transmission.
-- Ron
Posted by davex on March 21, 2002, at 7:04:02
In reply to Re: SAM-e Induced Hypomania Ron H., posted by colin wallace on March 21, 2002, at 3:16:11
Hi,
i'm actually on 1200 mg/d SAM-e from few days, and takeing SAM-e 800 mg/d from more than a week.
I've never felt Hipomania or other symphtoms like this.
I'm quite more euphoric aenergic and motivated, but these are only right effects.
I think this cause i'm not bipolar, never been hipomaniacal but only pure depressed.
Good luck.
Posted by Ritch on March 21, 2002, at 10:53:45
In reply to Re: SAM-e » Ritch, posted by Ron Hill on March 21, 2002, at 4:08:50
> > I have been feeling even better lately.
>
> Mitch, I'm really glad that the SAM-e add-on is working well for you so far. How much are you currently taking? Still 250 mg?Oh, just a 200mg enteric tablet in the morning. I used to take *all* my vitamins/flax/SAMe, etc at lunch. Too many pills at once! So, I do the SAMe and sublingual B-complex in the morning first thing and then make coffee (with a 100mg Neurontin). I notice that on an empty stomach I do feel just *slightly* queasy, but NOTHING like taking a larger dose of an SSRI (esp. Zoloft). Celexa gives me heartburn and reflux within about 2 hrs of taking it. I will be trying low-dose escitalopram when it is available to see if that is significantly reduced. BTW, I think the SAMe is helping ADHD symptoms. I can tell when those improve because they are directly correlated with my ability to pick out words in lyrical music.
>
> >I am only taking Celexa 2.5mg 3x weekly (my only antidepressant). But, I am taking 2.5mg of Dexedrine every day (afternoons). I really must say-that with the SAM-e addition I almost feel like I could stop the Celexa. I have found more hypomania symptoms with it than I have the dexedrine or the SAM-e, even at its microdose. The thing is whether panic will start returning if I ditch it. Will SAM-e have any sort of antipanic effect that AD's typically provide for folks with PD??
>
> I believe the answer is yes, however, since I do have PD as part of my formal dx, my experience may differ from yours. But for me, I have been pleasantly surprised by what I will call (for lack of a better term) a "soothing, calming, anti-irritability" effect. YMMV.
I probably will do OK, because I am already on .5mg (sometimes a little more) of Klonopin. I just worry about receptor "upregulation" occurring from not taking an AD and that leading to panic symptoms reemerging. But, of course that is all theory stuff.>
> A couple of days ago, when you were so kind as to send me a list of your current meds, your wrote:
>
> >Depakote 125-250mg hs (no tremor with Flax oil and the SAM-e!)
> Klonopin .5mg hs
> Neurontin 100mg tid
> Dexedrine 5mg/day
> Celexa 2.5mg every other day
>
> Your note after the Depakote dose intrigues me. What I read into your statement, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that at one point in time Depakote caused tremors in you hands. But with the flax seed oil and SAM-e add-ons, the tremors are gone. Do I have it right? If so, my read would be that Depakote can, in some cases like yours, deplete dopamine levels. And, further, SAM-e and/or flax seed oil restore DA levels and/or DA transmission.
>
> -- Ron
Oh, I should have explained that in more detail. I actually attribute it to the three way add-on of the SAMe, flax, and dexedrine to elminating the tremor. I was up to 250mg of Depakote at bedtime for several nites in a row (from 125mg hs), and I expected my left hand tremor and left eyelid flutter to start happening again. It hasn't. I am a little impressed. I am beginning to wonder if my pdoc suspects some early onset Parkinson's and is allowing me to tinker with the pstims a little to see if some of my dystonia and med-induced tremor will just "go away". The last bout of dystonia was triggered from atypical AP's and it faded VERY slowly.Mitch
Posted by lizzyg on March 21, 2002, at 11:09:22
In reply to SAM-e Induced Hypomania Colon, Mitch, IsoM et al, posted by Ron Hill on March 20, 2002, at 16:41:22
Hi Ron
I tried putting the SAM-e up to 400mg last week, but it made me more agitated and impeded sleep, so I'm back down to 200mg a day, too.
At the same time, I developed flu, so have been feeling pretty bad with that, too. One worrying symptom I developed at the same time as both of these events is an irregular heartbeat, which feels as though it's 'skipping'. This happens about every 20 or 30 minutes.
The SAM-e seems pretty good at lifting the depression, but isn't doing much for my anxiety. Previously, the antidepressants I've used seemed to do both.
Do you think this skipped heartbeat is just due to anxiety, or could it be something to do with the SAM-e? Or is to something worse that I should REALLY be anxious about?!
Also, do you suffer from anxiety, and has the SAM-e helped you?
Thanks again.
Lizzy
Posted by davex on March 21, 2002, at 11:21:02
In reply to Re: SAM-e queries to Ron » Ron Hill, posted by lizzyg on March 21, 2002, at 11:09:22
Hi, i found out this link. I think it could be helpful:
http://www.immunesupport.com/news/SAMe2txt.htm
My Sam-e trial goes on very well, i will report you in the future days, plase keep posted...i think i'll have lot to report, even if i think actually is too early to be sure about positive effects!
Bye
Posted by SteveS on March 21, 2002, at 13:02:08
In reply to SAM-e's helpful link., posted by davex on March 21, 2002, at 11:21:02
Hi to everybody,
these are my personal impressions, but for me
Sam-e was a life safer.
I'm a pure depressed, no anxious, sometimes i prayed to be a little anxiuos, cause i didn't feel interest, energy...nothing (good or bad) seemed to be important for me.
I began to go on SSRIs (large number of them) and i felt worst: I felt like a was a zombie!
No enhanced mood, no less depression, no more energy and desires, on the contrary they erased my left (low) energy.
Do not speak about TCA trials at all: a disaster!
I had no more energy to live, to work, to ride...i only would like to go to bed and to sleep! I layed in bed during the day too and i hated everyone and everything (even on Effexor heavy side-effects!!).
A month ago my pdoc spoke to me about a natural antidepressant, not well known, but very promising for every kind of depression: Sam-e.
I was a little sceptic, but i decided to give it a try.
I began at 400 than 800 and now at 1200 mg/d.
Since from the first days i noticed excellent effects:
my mood for the first time get better, my energy increased, i began to see the things that i do in a different way: I wanna act, rise up and work, talk, meet friends, write posts: to do something, doesn't matter what, but to do something!
I once was isolated from people, now i wanna go out and meet somebody....everything seems to be a little lovable.
I foud out that i think about sex, when during the passed months i women didn't mean nothing for me.
I feel more active, my view is focused and i feel "the depth in the things and in environment around me" (i don't know if you can understand what i mean).
I lost part of my negative thoughts, once i wanna die ten times a day, now sometimes i wanna think about future projects, and this is marvelous for me.
I know that these are little steps, but for me is a lot. It is just enough to think about the heavy side effects once i reported on AD, and now to not have NO ONE SIDE EFFECT AT ALL!
I think that at the end Sam-e act like activant and antidepressant at the same time.
The only problem is his cost, but no one cost is too much for the life it gave me back.
This is my experience and i know that it could not be the same for everybody, but for me SAM-e was an extraordinary revelation.
I think that we must continue to speak about this extraordinary med, write posts, let people know everything possible about this amazing chance.
I will surely post again, don't forget to continue to post!
Bye
Posted by Ron Hill on March 21, 2002, at 13:03:28
In reply to Re: SAM-e Induced Hypomania Ron H. end others, posted by davex on March 21, 2002, at 7:04:02
> i'm actually on 1200 mg/d SAM-e from few days, and takeing SAM-e 800 mg/d from more than a week.
> I've never felt Hipomania or other symphtoms like this.
> I'm quite more euphoric aenergic and motivated, but these are only right effects.
> I think this cause i'm not bipolar, never been hipomaniacal but only pure depressed.
-------------------------------Dave,
Thanks for your input. How long have you been taking SAM-e? Did you start at 800 mg/day?Overall, how would you rate the effectiveness of SAM-e for the treatment of depression? I assume this is the reason you are taking it.
-- Ron
P.S. Your english isn't great, but it's a lot better than my italian!
Posted by IsoM on March 21, 2002, at 13:35:26
In reply to Re: SAM-e Induced Hypomania » davex, posted by Ron Hill on March 21, 2002, at 13:03:28
While I've read that SAMe is safe with continued use, I'd like to know if anyone has been on SAMe LONG-term & continued to find the same benefits. If not you, of people who you know HONESTLY have been on it long & continued to benefit from it. The longer, the better. Thanks everyone!
Posted by Ron Hill on March 21, 2002, at 14:47:14
In reply to Re: SAM-e queries to Ron » Ron Hill, posted by lizzyg on March 21, 2002, at 11:09:22
Lizzy G,
I was thinking about you last night wondering how you are doing with your SAM-e trial. Sounds like you are experiencing some undesirable side effects.
> I tried putting the SAM-e up to 400mg last week, but it made me more agitated and impeded sleep, so I'm back down to 200mg a day, too.
Sounds wise to go back down to 200 mg. You may even benefit by lowering your daily dose down to 100 mg, at least temporarily. 100 mg tablets are not very common, but Colin found a vendor. Here is a link to their site:
http://www.fibromyalgiasupport.com/shop/product.cfm/Product__Code/n0165
As I've stated before, SAM-e serves as the methyl donor in the synthesis of various neurotransmitters within the body, including the neurotransmitter melatonin. As you know, melatonin is involved in regulating the body's sleep/wake cycle. For this reason, it is best to take the SAM-e early in the day, with no doses past about 5 pm. When I take SAM-e in accordance with these guidelines, SAM-e actually seems to enhance my sleep quality. Did the dose reduction solve the sleep problems?
Further, please define what you mean by "agitated". Do you mean irritable or overly hyper or anxiety or something else? As you may recall, when I first began SAM-e four and a half months ago, I could only take 200 mg every other day. If I took it everyday I felt "over stimulated" (like skin crawling and pins and needles throughout my body). But that went away after about a week.
> At the same time, I developed flu, so have been feeling pretty bad with that, too.Sorry you’re sick. No fun, huh?
>One worrying symptom I developed at the same time as both of these events is an irregular heartbeat, which feels as though it's 'skipping'. This happens about every 20 or 30 minutes.
> The SAM-e seems pretty good at lifting the depression, but isn't doing much for my anxiety. Previously, the antidepressants I've used seemed to do both.
> Do you think this skipped heartbeat is just due to anxiety, or could it be something to do with the SAM-e? Or is to something worse that I should REALLY be anxious about?!Lizzy, I don't like the sound of the irregular heartbeat presentation. I've never heard of this with SAM-e, but there is a lot I don't know. I experienced something similar to this in the early days of a Ritalin trial and my pdoc told me not to be concerned about it. Eventually, it went away. Lizzy, please play it safe and get an opinion from a GP or pdoc regarding this issue. Better to be safe. Also, refresh my memory by telling me the meds you're currently on. Could there be some kind of drug interaction with the SAM-e?
> Also, do you suffer from anxiety, and has the SAM-e helped you?Anxiety is not part of my formal dx; just BPII. However, when I read the list of symptoms for Generalized Anxiety Disorder, it seems to me that I should qualify for the GAD label as well as BPII. As I mentioned to Mitch yesterday when he asked the same question, SAM-e provides a soothing and calming effect which helps to take off some of my "inherited edge" and, thereby, reduces my irritability. Your mileage may vary!
Thanks for keeping in touch.
-- Ron
Posted by Ron Hill on March 21, 2002, at 15:23:35
In reply to SAM-e's helpful link., posted by davex on March 21, 2002, at 11:21:02
Posted by colin wallace on March 21, 2002, at 15:43:15
In reply to Re: SAM-e » lizzyg, posted by Ron Hill on March 21, 2002, at 14:47:14
Hi Liz,
I've suffered with very severe anxiety as an unpleasant little adjunct to my major depression-
One thing I was also very concerned about at the time was an irregular , skipping heartbeat.I actually checked this out with a cardiologist (I was living in Taiwan- it was cheap!)and the percieved 'abnormality' was scarcely detectable, nothing to worry about, and most definitely attributable to the anxiety.My GP., and everything I have read confirms that MILD palpitations/fluttering heartbeats commonly accompany anxiety.Of themselves, they are no cause for concern.
Also, anecdotally, I've read accounts of people taking sam-e who've experienced an elevated pulse rate shortly after administration.Again, this is said to be harmless.(I'll try and find the info. again if I can)>
Seemingly, Sam-e can also cause anxiety/jitteriness when dosed too high, or when first taking it. Ron and I have both experienced this.This too is commonplace.
My anxiety is now pretty much under control, but today I took 400mg (underestimating the added effects of Prozac!!) and went into an 'anxiety-agitation orbit' -semi panic actually...struggled to keep the lid on it for a while.Brought back unsavoury memories I'll tell ya.
Without the prozac, I would have felt some slight jitteriness only.So it's back down to 200 mg for me aswell!!One thing though, as Ron rightly said, it wouldn't harm to get your GP. to stick a stethascope over your ticker, just for your peace of mind.(if he's even heard of Sam-e, I'll buy you a year's supply!!)
Col.
Posted by colin wallace on March 21, 2002, at 15:52:00
In reply to Has Anybody Been On SAMe 6 months or longer??, posted by IsoM on March 21, 2002, at 13:35:26
Four and a half months here since I ditched effexor and started Sammy, and it's still consistent in its effects.All the research (you most probably know this) points to Sam-e's benefits being sustained or rising with long term use.(the same might be said for the ******* cost.:>)
Col.
Posted by IsoM on March 21, 2002, at 16:31:09
In reply to Re: Has Anybody Been On SAMe 6 months or longer??, posted by colin wallace on March 21, 2002, at 15:52:00
Posted by beardedlady on March 21, 2002, at 16:45:55
In reply to Okay guys, I'm going out to buy some tonight (nm) » colin wallace, posted by IsoM on March 21, 2002, at 16:31:09
Okay, I've been following these posts (going to read the article in a few minutes after I cook dinner and pour my beer into my frosty cold mug), and I still want to know one thing. Okay, two things. Three.
1.) Could this cure me of my chronic panic-induced insomnia (with panic being caused by the fear of yet another sleepless night)?
2.) Is it best to take it in the morning, and can I take it with my multi-vitamin and my mega B (which together have 800 mcg folic acid and a little bit of E and calcium and a dash of magnesium)? (Or do you need to know exactly what's in my vitamins to answer?)
3.) Can I still drink my 5:00 beer?beardy : )>
P.S. You guys are the best.
Posted by davex on March 21, 2002, at 19:16:03
In reply to Re: SAM-e Induced Hypomania » davex, posted by Ron Hill on March 21, 2002, at 13:07:47
Hi, excuse me for my awful english, but i think you could understand me anyway.
Ron, I'm on sam-e since last month, and i've started going on 800 mg/d.
I began to feel first effects after only few days, the effects seems to have stabilized after two weeks, but i now think the there is a slowly enhance week by week and even actually it happends (1200 mg/d).
For me the effectiveness of sam-e has been the best i have ever reported: I was on every kind of Ad's with no significative right effects and heavy side-effects (dizzy, drowsy, weakness,...).
If i realize that on sam-e i have no side effects at all i must say that sam-e for me was not comparable to another AD.Bearded, I've read a lot of report in use of B Vitamins for best effect of Sam-e.
My daily protocol is this:
B1 250 mg
B6 250 mg
B12 500 mcg
Folic acid 400 mcg.Bye
> > i'm actually on 1200 mg/d SAM-e from few days, and takeing SAM-e 800 mg/d from more than a week.
> > I've never felt Hipomania or other symphtoms like this.
> > I'm quite more euphoric aenergic and motivated, but these are only right effects.
> > I think this cause i'm not bipolar, never been hipomaniacal but only pure depressed.
> -------------------------------
>
> Dave,
>
> Thanks for your input. How long have you been taking SAM-e? Did you start at 800 mg/day?Overall, how would you rate the effectiveness of SAM-e for the treatment of depression? I assume this is the reason you are taking it.
>
> -- Ron
>
> P.S. Your english isn't great, but it's a lot better than my italian!
Posted by Ron Hill on March 21, 2002, at 21:04:24
In reply to WONDER SAM-e, no more SSRI's and TCA's Zombi!, posted by SteveS on March 21, 2002, at 13:02:08
Steve,
Your story is almost exactly the same as mine! SAM-e is a life saver. Thanks for posting. I think it is our duty to help others now that we are well.
-- Ron
---------------------------------------------> Hi to everybody,
> these are my personal impressions, but for me
> Sam-e was a life safer.
> I'm a pure depressed, no anxious, sometimes i prayed to be a little anxiuos, cause i didn't feel interest, energy...nothing (good or bad) seemed to be important for me.
> I began to go on SSRIs (large number of them) and i felt worst: I felt like a was a zombie!
> No enhanced mood, no less depression, no more energy and desires, on the contrary they erased my left (low) energy.
> Do not speak about TCA trials at all: a disaster!
> I had no more energy to live, to work, to ride...i only would like to go to bed and to sleep! I layed in bed during the day too and i hated everyone and everything (even on Effexor heavy side-effects!!).
> A month ago my pdoc spoke to me about a natural antidepressant, not well known, but very promising for every kind of depression: Sam-e.
> I was a little sceptic, but i decided to give it a try.
> I began at 400 than 800 and now at 1200 mg/d.
> Since from the first days i noticed excellent effects:
> my mood for the first time get better, my energy increased, i began to see the things that i do in a different way: I wanna act, rise up and work, talk, meet friends, write posts: to do something, doesn't matter what, but to do something!
> I once was isolated from people, now i wanna go out and meet somebody....everything seems to be a little lovable.
> I foud out that i think about sex, when during the passed months i women didn't mean nothing for me.
> I feel more active, my view is focused and i feel "the depth in the things and in environment around me" (i don't know if you can understand what i mean).
> I lost part of my negative thoughts, once i wanna die ten times a day, now sometimes i wanna think about future projects, and this is marvelous for me.
> I know that these are little steps, but for me is a lot. It is just enough to think about the heavy side effects once i reported on AD, and now to not have NO ONE SIDE EFFECT AT ALL!
> I think that at the end Sam-e act like activant and antidepressant at the same time.
> The only problem is his cost, but no one cost is too much for the life it gave me back.
> This is my experience and i know that it could not be the same for everybody, but for me SAM-e was an extraordinary revelation.
> I think that we must continue to speak about this extraordinary med, write posts, let people know everything possible about this amazing chance.
> I will surely post again, don't forget to continue to post!
> Bye
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 22, 2002, at 1:19:00
In reply to WONDER SAM-e, no more SSRI's and TCA's Zombi!, posted by SteveS on March 21, 2002, at 13:02:08
That is so wonderful for you. What a great enthusiastic reply. I take 400 mg. along with a bunch of other SSRI's and lithium and I find that SAM-e energizes me, kind of like shining more light on things. I do have anxiety with my depression, so I haven't wanted to take more, but your post has inspired me to try. Also, I like that it's also a great anti-oxidant and liver support.
I know exactly what you mean about the total lack of motivation and disinterest to do anything. Everything's is 'what's the use', or 'I just don't wanna'. Now that my meds are kicking in, it's like coming alive again. There is just a natural flow to things, and interests just bubble up instead of everything being a huge burden.
You might know this already, but Costco has the cheapest prices I've found. 80 tablets for $40.
Posted by Ron Hill on March 22, 2002, at 1:36:28
In reply to Re: SAM-eLizzy G., posted by colin wallace on March 21, 2002, at 15:43:15
Colin,
Glad you had heart rate info for Lizzy.
Hey, I'm curious, what prompted you to increase your SAM-e dose to 400 mg for a day?
Just to let you know, the slight hypomania I spoke of yesterday resolved itself by lowering to 200 mg. That's where I plan to keep it 'till the cows come home (i.e. a long time).
Eventually, I think I will order some 100 mg tablets from the web site you gave us and try the split dose thing. I think it will even out the effect over the day a little better. However, I ran out of SAM-e yesterday and, therefore, had to replenish my supply with 200 mg tablets. As it turned out, I happened into a sale at Costco; Eighty Nature Made brand 200 mg tabs for $35.99. Cool, that's ten bucks off the regular price which makes it less than fifty cents per tab.
-- Ron
-----------------------
> Hi Liz,
>
> I've suffered with very severe anxiety as an unpleasant little adjunct to my major depression-
> One thing I was also very concerned about at the time was an irregular , skipping heartbeat.I actually checked this out with a cardiologist (I was living in Taiwan- it was cheap!)and the percieved 'abnormality' was scarcely detectable, nothing to worry about, and most definitely attributable to the anxiety.My GP., and everything I have read confirms that MILD palpitations/fluttering heartbeats commonly accompany anxiety.Of themselves, they are no cause for concern.
> Also, anecdotally, I've read accounts of people taking sam-e who've experienced an elevated pulse rate shortly after administration.Again, this is said to be harmless.(I'll try and find the info. again if I can)>
> Seemingly, Sam-e can also cause anxiety/jitteriness when dosed too high, or when first taking it. Ron and I have both experienced this.This too is commonplace.
> My anxiety is now pretty much under control, but today I took 400mg (underestimating the added effects of Prozac!!) and went into an 'anxiety-agitation orbit' -semi panic actually...struggled to keep the lid on it for a while.Brought back unsavoury memories I'll tell ya.
> Without the prozac, I would have felt some slight jitteriness only.So it's back down to 200 mg for me aswell!!
>
> One thing though, as Ron rightly said, it wouldn't harm to get your GP. to stick a stethascope over your ticker, just for your peace of mind.(if he's even heard of Sam-e, I'll buy you a year's supply!!)
>
> Col.
Posted by Ron Hill on March 22, 2002, at 2:44:26
In reply to Okay guys, I'm going out to buy some tonight (nm) » colin wallace, posted by IsoM on March 21, 2002, at 16:31:09
Isomer,
What is your dx? What meds do you currently take? What is your start-up plan and what is your long-term plan regarding incorporation of SAM-e into your med cocktail? In other words, do you plan to use SAM-e as an add-on or do you plan to use it as a replacement for an AD, for example? Does your pdoc know about your plans to take SAM-e? If not, do you think you should call him/her first?
May I make a couple suggestions and remind you of a couple of the "do's" and the "do not's"? For at least the first week, I suggest that you start out using SAM-e strictly as an add-on. Further, start at a low dose, say 200 mg/day, and move up slowly (if at all) based on how you feel.
DO:
1. Post your results
2. Take a good B-complex (e.g. B50 or B100) that has lots of B-6 and folic acid. Take a SUBLINGUAL (under the tongue) Bioactive B-12. Go to a good health food/vitamin store. I can not overemphasize the need for these vitamins, especially the sublingual bioactive B-12. We humans do not absorb B-12 efficiently when taken orally (down the hatch), so use the sublingual or give yourself a B-12 shot each morning. Without sufficient amounts of these B's in your body homocystiene will build up (not good!).
3. If possible, take the SAM-e on an empty stomach. If nausea is a problem, eat a small portion of food with it. Here is the schedule I use: Get out of bed, take prescription meds (Lithobid for me), drink coffee, make and eat healthy breakfast which always includes some protein, take vitamins (including B's), wait at least 30 minutes to an hour and then take 200 mg SAM-e.
DO NOT
1. Blame me if it doesn't work (blame Colin).
2. Forget the SUBLINGUAL Bioactive B-12!-- Ron
Posted by Ron Hill on March 22, 2002, at 3:54:03
In reply to One more Sam-E question--Ron, Colin?, posted by beardedlady on March 21, 2002, at 16:45:55
> 1.) Could this cure me of my chronic panic-induced insomnia (with panic being caused by the fear of yet another sleepless night)?
SAM-e serves as the methyl donor in the synthesis of various neurotransmitters within the body, including the neurotransmitter melatonin. As you know, melatonin is involved in regulating the body's sleep/wake cycle. For this reason, it is best to take the SAM-e early in the day, with no doses past about 5 pm. When I take SAM-e in accordance with these guidelines, SAM-e actually seems to enhance my sleep quality.
> 2.) Is it best to take it in the morning, and can I take it with my multi-vitamin and my mega B (which together have 800 mcg folic acid and a little bit of E and calcium and a dash of magnesium)? (Or do you need to know exactly what's in my vitamins to answer?)
Ms B. Lady, it’s late so if it is ok with you, please click the link below to read what I just wrote to IsoM because it answers your question #2. To personalize the previous post, please scratch out “Isomer” (a.k.a. IsoM) at every occurrence and in its place pencil in you name, “Ms. B. Lady” (a.k.a. beardedlady).
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020318/msgs/99413.html
> 3.) Can I still drink my 5:00 beer?
I depise anyone that is able to drink a couple of beers inspite the fact that he/she takes psyotropic medications. I lay in bed at night and dream of what it used to be like (prior to meds) to have the proverbial “3 beer effect” going on. To answer your question, I see no problem with the SAM-e and the beer, the question is, however, how does the alcohol affect your meds and how does the alcohol affect your disorder?
-- Ron
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