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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by geno on March 18, 2002, at 17:55:43
I have a few comments and questions. Klonopin is suppose to be for social phobia, also paxil. im on both of these medications. I take 1mg of klonopin a day, and 20mg of paxil a day. Im still not mr outgoing. i feel somewhat sedated. Im not panicy or avoid people but im def not more talkative.
what i believe is i need a medication which causes dishinibitions. Thats why i take ghb which does all that. THough it illegal, i still cannot get a proper med combo for social phobia. maybe paxil should be upped, or switched to a more stimulating med such as zoloft? adding dexadrine or a stimulant may cause anxiety and will wirllpool me back to being social phobic.
any comments
geno
Posted by Janelle on March 18, 2002, at 18:19:42
In reply to social phobia medication, posted by geno on March 18, 2002, at 17:55:43
The only other AD med I can think of that you might want to try that is stimulating and might help is Wellbutrin. Then again, it is known to cause anxiety in those who are prone to that.
Posted by Carlos on March 18, 2002, at 21:24:29
In reply to social phobia medication, posted by geno on March 18, 2002, at 17:55:43
Wow, a legally prescribed medicine that lowers inhibition, hmmm...that would be nice, but sounds a little too good to be true. I have social phobia and tried all the SSRI's with no lowered inhibition, just a slight calming of the anxiety. Wellbutrin made me a nervous wreck.
I do however remember my first week ever on a SSRI (Zoloft 25mg, I know that's LOW), but it was GREAT! I know the doc's tell you it takes weeks, but I felt SOMTHING immediately, the first night. I was a little on the anxious side, but it was a good anxiety, it made me very excited, ready to go out and party or something. It was wonderful. After that first week, things went down hill and it did nothing but give me side effects, and help marginally with anxiety. The following months I eventually maxed out at 200mg with NOTHING. I was wondering if anyone elese may have had this experience?
I am going to ask my doctor about benzo's and hopefully get to try it out. This post is going to be interesting though, I'd love to hear what would give me the "Mr. Social" effect. I'm not going to get my hopes up because I've never read anyone with SP getting that effect from legal drugs.
Carlos
> I have a few comments and questions. Klonopin is suppose to be for social phobia, also paxil. im on both of these medications. I take 1mg of klonopin a day, and 20mg of paxil a day. Im still not mr outgoing. i feel somewhat sedated. Im not panicy or avoid people but im def not more talkative.
> what i believe is i need a medication which causes dishinibitions. Thats why i take ghb which does all that. THough it illegal, i still cannot get a proper med combo for social phobia. maybe paxil should be upped, or switched to a more stimulating med such as zoloft? adding dexadrine or a stimulant may cause anxiety and will wirllpool me back to being social phobic.
> any comments
> geno
Posted by 3 Beer Effect on March 18, 2002, at 22:23:49
In reply to social phobia medication, posted by geno on March 18, 2002, at 17:55:43
The only two medications I have taken (besides alcohol) that caused disinhibition- Zoloft and low dose Dexedrine. (I didn't take the medications in combination). Right now I take 4 mg of Klonopin/day for social phobia (2 mg night for sleep, 1mg breakfast, 1 mg lunch for social anxiety). Klonopin doesn't make you that much more outgoing, just lessens anxiety. I also take Provigil 200 mg & Lamictal 100 mg neither of which do much for social phobia.
The Zoloft I took 100 mg & for me was the best social phobia medicine I have ever taken (better than high-dose Klonopin). I started the Zoloft with 50 mg which did nothing at all- made me sleepy. The only problem was with Zoloft I couldn't sleep at night, and was so disinhibited that I was doing stupid things like buying cocaine etc. Also, you can't take Zoloft & get drunk because you act like a complete idiot (not in a good way) & don't remember any of it- Combine alcohol & Zoloft & you are out of touch with reality. I never drank & drove ever, but on Zoloft I got a DWI. The thing with Zoloft is that since it is activating (like Prozac), you are more likely to go and talk to people ("it makes the timid brave, & the shy person an extrovert"). But the psychs said I can't take SSRIs because they make me "manic" so you would probably have a more positive reaction if you aren't Bipolar II. (In retrospect, the psychiatrist should have prescribed Klonopin or Ambien with the Zoloft so I could sleep at night, or lowered the dose to 75 mg.) I think Paxil, the less activating/somewhat sedating SSRI, makes you less nervous (like Klonopin) when people talk to you but doesn't necessarily make you as outgoing.
Dexedrine 5 mg at 9am & 2 pm was a great disinhibitor for me & didn't cause me hardly any anxiety. Rather, I felt much more confident, & was much more talkitive. It makes you feel like your the sh*t! But its hard to get a prescription for Dexedrine unless you have ADD.
Ritalin or Wellbutrin would increase your anxiety- not recommended. Adderall is also a good disinhibitor/social phobia med but probably causes more anxiety than Dexedrine because it is a less selective (for dopamine) amphetamine.
For disinhibition, most people just drink alcohol though, & alcohol is probably the most effective legal disinhibitor.
Posted by Jackd on March 18, 2002, at 23:33:21
In reply to social phobia medication, posted by geno on March 18, 2002, at 17:55:43
Well, if you have depression or any other underlying problems, fixing it with any medication would definitely help.
I have to say, alcohol is tough to beat for SP, but I'd say an awesome combo is ritalin or dexedrine combined with an SSRI and/or Klonopin. You shouldn't suffer too much anxiety from the stimulants that way. It's essentially an SSRI with a synethetic speedball.
You could also try beta blockers if your problem is physical (blushing, racing heart, etc), the only one of which i know is pindolol. And, speaking of pindolol, it is known to potentiate SSRI's like the Paxil you're on.
You could also drop the Paxil and try a med that acts on serotonin and norepinephrine if you feel zonked out. Or just try a different med altogether. Paxil worked well for my anxiety, TOO well; I didn't care about anything.
You may also have to suffer with the notion that maybe you're just not going to be "mr.outgoing" from just taking a pill. Unless of course your doc agrees to prescribe an opiate...
Posted by Carlos on March 19, 2002, at 0:18:00
In reply to Re: social phobia medication, posted by Jackd on March 18, 2002, at 23:33:21
I was invovled in a thread where someone with SP took Dexedrine and it made them feel very outgoing. I might try replacing Wellbutrin SR with Dexedrine. Though my problem is both metal and physical, meaning the SP often leads to a panic attack. I hope a stimulant won't agitate this problem. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Carlos> Well, if you have depression or any other underlying problems, fixing it with any medication would definitely help.
>
> I have to say, alcohol is tough to beat for SP, but I'd say an awesome combo is ritalin or dexedrine combined with an SSRI and/or Klonopin. You shouldn't suffer too much anxiety from the stimulants that way. It's essentially an SSRI with a synethetic speedball.
>
> You could also try beta blockers if your problem is physical (blushing, racing heart, etc), the only one of which i know is pindolol. And, speaking of pindolol, it is known to potentiate SSRI's like the Paxil you're on.
>
> You could also drop the Paxil and try a med that acts on serotonin and norepinephrine if you feel zonked out. Or just try a different med altogether. Paxil worked well for my anxiety, TOO well; I didn't care about anything.
>
>
> You may also have to suffer with the notion that maybe you're just not going to be "mr.outgoing" from just taking a pill. Unless of course your doc agrees to prescribe an opiate...
Posted by JohnX2 on March 19, 2002, at 4:10:12
In reply to Re: social phobia medication, posted by Jackd on March 18, 2002, at 23:33:21
> You could also try beta blockers if your problem is physical (blushing, racing heart, etc), the only one of which i know is pindolol. And, speaking of pindolol, it is known to potentiate SSRI's like the Paxil you're on.
>
> You could also drop the Paxil and try a med that acts on serotonin and norepinephrine if you feel zonked out. Or just try a different med altogether. Paxil worked well for my anxiety, TOO well; I didn't care about anything.
>Jack,
How long have you been taking ADs?
Did this antidepressant induced "cycling" become a recent phenomina?
John
Posted by tortoise on March 19, 2002, at 10:42:26
In reply to social phobia medication, posted by geno on March 18, 2002, at 17:55:43
Hi Geno--
I found Paxil very helpful for my SP. Sadly, I was gaining weight so rapidly from it that I had to stop. I tried all of the other SSRI's (except Zoloft) with no help. I'm on Prozac now (30 mg) with 900 mg of Neurontin. The Neurontin worked wonderfully for a while, but it is becoming increasingly less effective.
tortoise
Posted by Jackd on March 19, 2002, at 14:52:33
In reply to Re: social phobia medication » Jackd, posted by JohnX2 on March 19, 2002, at 4:10:12
John, no, it's been ongoing. It only happens with NE stimulating meds though: Effexor, Wellbutrin, Remeron. And at VERY low doses might I ad. SSRI's make me feel *a little* better since they get rid of anxiety but don't really help my depression too much. I haven't been on one long enough to see if they make me cycle, but I never had the kind of response to them I do from the aforementioned drugs.
Posted by geno on March 19, 2002, at 20:27:12
In reply to Re: social phobia medication -JohnX, posted by Jackd on March 19, 2002, at 14:52:33
3 Beers, you sould just like me, but i love ghb,NOTHING, can compare, but im sick of sneaking it around and risking arrest and shit, and gging out. Im telling you all, if any of you suffer from social phobia or anxiety DONT TAKE GHB, YOU WILL BECOME ADDICTED TO IT FAST!!!!!!!!!, i mean i take a cap of g and i will rip my shirt of on a crowded dance floor, do a split and kiss my best friend !!! NOT ON THE LIPS!!
Alcohol used to be my disihibitor, but for me cannot compare to ghb. Now alcohol makes me depressed.getting back to the meds. Im also taking a low dose of desipramine, which doesnt cause anxiety actually a nice tingly feeling. I may try the dexadrine zoloft with 1mg of klonpin 2x daily, but i have to stick with paxil , the libido killer for 2 weeks until i see my doc again.
OR i could up my remeron to 45mg, paxil 20mg klonpin 1mg 2x daily. keep desip at 25mg low dose. if still no go, then ill drop remeron, maybe this med is affecting my social ability due to the sedation. Just stick with zoloft, klonopin and ambien at night!! add dexadrine if my doc will perscribe it.
ill tell my doc i dont like paxil due to sedation and libido and request zoloft. Somehow ill tell him can i try dexadrine to concentrate! Klonopin 1mg and ambien for sleep. May work.
geno
Posted by 3 Beer Effect on March 20, 2002, at 2:09:17
In reply to Re: social phobia medication -JohnX, posted by geno on March 19, 2002, at 20:27:12
Geno,
Dexedrine could cause anxiety as I think it does in many who take it- I could just be an exception, but it is definitely euphoric & makes you feel "on top of the world" & confident/outgoing.Dexedrine, & even Adderall or Ritalin can sometimes be very (psychologically) addictive meaning that you won't be able to study or even get up in the morning without it. I think this usually only happens with those (like you & me) who have struggled with alcohol abuse or drug abuse. Dexedrine, Adderall, & Ritalin are very often abused since they cause a "flash" of euphoria very similar to cocaine (I think better) when snorted except they last longer, don't cause as many nosebleeds or numbness so you have to be careful, especially considering your problems with GHB addiction. To put it bluntly, don't ever snort your medications! I eventually found that snorting your medications is pretty dumb- for instance if you snort Ritalin it is only effective for 1 hour but if you swallow it it works for 3.5 hours. Only 30% of a drug is absorbed through your nose, so you are basically wasting a bunch of the pill & when you snort pills your tolerance rises ten jillion times as fast.
You might be better off with the long acting versions such as Adderall XR or Dexedrine Spansules since they are less addictive & almost impossible to crush up into a powder & therefore doctors seem to be more willing to prescribe these meds to adults. Plus you only have to remember to take one pill in the morning per day & it then lasts all day & causes less anxiety/crash/rebound than the IR versions. I am going to switch from Provigil 200 mg, which I have found to be fairly worthless, to hopefully Dexedrine Spansules (I believe Adderall may cause more anxiety than Dexedrine, but it still makes you just as outgoing, & often you find that you can't shut up half of the time!). For social phobia I would avoid Ritalin- i found it is better than Adderall/Dexedrine for ADD/Focus/Studying but turns you into a shy introverted geek for 3.5 hours after you take it.
I had two episodes of stimulant addiction to Ritalin & also a combination of Ritalin 40 mg & Adderall 20 mg & I can tell you being a 'speed freak' is not fun (basically it is hell). You end up staying up & snorting for days at a time, & basically become so paranoid that you lock yourself in your room & hardly ever come out. You lose a ton of weight & look like sh*t & stop eating because your appetite dissapears & all food tastes gross. And your tolerance to the drug escalates & spirals out of control until you run out of pills & then you experience a horrible withdrawl depression where you don't get out of bed for a week.But if you take your prescribed dose orally & do not escalate the dose on your own, none of those bad things (like paranoia) happen, the medications work better & last longer. But Dexedrine might work wonders for your social phobia or it could make you anxious- either way, it might be worth a shot. Klonopin didn't make me "mr. outgoing" either, even though everyone raves about it for social phobia. Zoloft 100 mg, Alcohol (3+ beers), & low dose Dexedrine IR 5 mg 2x per day are the only meds that ever made me "mr. outgoing/confident."
Posted by geno on March 20, 2002, at 17:50:08
In reply to Dexedrine often causes anxiety- watch for abuse, posted by 3 Beer Effect on March 20, 2002, at 2:09:17
3 beers, Do you know the pharmocolgy of alcohol. I believe it stimulates dopamine, seratonin, and gaba. GHB acts similar, but BLOCKS dopamine, releases oxytocin, which is suppose to be a social stimulator, and increases gaba ghb receptors. I suspect all 3 cause the dishinibitions, euphoria, happiness, calmness etc. 3 scientists and doctors wrote a book on ghb called the natural mood enhancer. They compared alcohol vs ghb.
alochol is metablolized by acetaldehyde, a central nervous system irratant and very toxic, ghb is metablozied by succinic acid, an energy meetabolite for the cells of the body. THus toxic effect occurrs from alchol not ghb. They state both ghb and alcohol induces feeling of relaxation and physical and psychologica well being and lowers inhibition. although alcohol increases irritability, aggressiveness and violent behaviors.ghb creates one tobe happy passiveand relaxed.
Yes im prone to anxiety, esp a cup of coffee. I take desipramine, which doesnt cause much anxiety for me, though im on remeron klonopin. Paxil is just too sedatiing. im calm but not social.
Im gonna give zoloft a try, klonopin and try dexadrine S if my doc will perscribe it.geno
Posted by Carlos on March 20, 2002, at 19:47:03
In reply to Re: Dexedrine often causes anxiety- watch for abuse, posted by geno on March 20, 2002, at 17:50:08
I started Dexedrine today. I took 5mgs spread apart within 4 hours, it works pretty good for socialability. I'm also on klonopin, which just KNOCKS ME OUT. I've only use it once though. I took 1mg generic.
> 3 beers, Do you know the pharmocolgy of alcohol. I believe it stimulates dopamine, seratonin, and gaba. GHB acts similar, but BLOCKS dopamine, releases oxytocin, which is suppose to be a social stimulator, and increases gaba ghb receptors. I suspect all 3 cause the dishinibitions, euphoria, happiness, calmness etc. 3 scientists and doctors wrote a book on ghb called the natural mood enhancer. They compared alcohol vs ghb.
> alochol is metablolized by acetaldehyde, a central nervous system irratant and very toxic, ghb is metablozied by succinic acid, an energy meetabolite for the cells of the body. THus toxic effect occurrs from alchol not ghb. They state both ghb and alcohol induces feeling of relaxation and physical and psychologica well being and lowers inhibition. although alcohol increases irritability, aggressiveness and violent behaviors.ghb creates one tobe happy passiveand relaxed.
> Yes im prone to anxiety, esp a cup of coffee. I take desipramine, which doesnt cause much anxiety for me, though im on remeron klonopin. Paxil is just too sedatiing. im calm but not social.
> Im gonna give zoloft a try, klonopin and try dexadrine S if my doc will perscribe it.
>
> geno
Posted by dollerbill on March 21, 2002, at 10:14:45
In reply to social phobia medication, posted by geno on March 18, 2002, at 17:55:43
hey geno have you tried an maoi?? i think maybe the ghb use has maybe diminishes the affect youd get from klonopin if im not mistaken they kinda work the same,on gaba anyway.maybe its like they say how if you used a klonopin buspar is les likely to work..maybe if you used ghb klono is less likely to be effective.
also would you mind e-mailing i have soemthing id like to send to your e-mail i will leave it in my
address in my next response if you agree thanks man
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