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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by George on February 26, 2002, at 14:14:28
I have recently fallen into a deep depression that I had under control for 13 months through stimulants. I notice that in my depressed state, it takes much longer for me to get drunk--my tolerance is noticeably greater than when I wasn't depressed. Does this mean anything or does it hold any clues as to what chemicals are lacking in my brain? Thanks.
Posted by Mark H. on February 26, 2002, at 17:40:42
In reply to Alcohol Question, posted by George on February 26, 2002, at 14:14:28
It may tell you that depression and alcohol have similar effects on your brain, up to a certain point. The parts that feel "impaired" with drinking when you are in remission may be impaired (or functionally absent) when you are depressed. Slurred speech, slowed thinking, and physical uncoordination can describe both alcohol ingestion and depression.
I was surprised to find out in my late 20s that most people don't get drunk. It just never occured to me that my experience was any different than anyone else's. I didn't think I had a problem with alcohol, because I never missed work, didn't drink during the day, and didn't go to bars.
Please see your doctor and talk openly about your experiences. Do you think it would help you if you got off alcohol and went back on stimulants?
Best wishes,
Mark H.
Posted by JohnX2 on February 26, 2002, at 21:07:40
In reply to Alcohol Question, posted by George on February 26, 2002, at 14:14:28
For your depression, was your precribing physician
specifically choosing to use psychostimulants to treat
your disoder? Over time this may interfere with your bodies
natural reward mecanisms. As well does drinking. So for getting
depression treated, typically one will go on anti depressants
and cut down on stims and alcohol in order to reorganize the
brains reward system. I find its ok to have a drink every now
and then , but excessive drinking depletes the brain of important
chemicals and intereferes with the depression treatment process.Good luck with your treatment.
-John
> I have recently fallen into a deep depression that I had under control for 13 months through stimulants. I notice that in my depressed state, it takes much longer for me to get drunk--my tolerance is noticeably greater than when I wasn't depressed. Does this mean anything or does it hold any clues as to what chemicals are lacking in my brain? Thanks.
Posted by George on February 27, 2002, at 5:03:39
In reply to Re: Alcohol Question » George, posted by JohnX2 on February 26, 2002, at 21:07:40
Hello. My physician decided to put me on stimulants after three years of unsuccessful treatment with 26 different antidepressants and combinations. Treatment with Adderall worked almost immediately and miraculously--giving me my life back for thirteen months. About a month ago, the Adderall started giving out, and now I'm back to a consistently depressed state. My depression is not any worse than it was before the stimulants--the same old thing. I don't drink very much--two or three drinks once per week. I've had partial success with the combination of Provigil and Wellbutrin. I'm also considering giving Dexedrine a try. Any advice?
> For your depression, was your precribing physician
> specifically choosing to use psychostimulants to treat
> your disoder? Over time this may interfere with your bodies
> natural reward mecanisms. As well does drinking. So for getting
> depression treated, typically one will go on anti depressants
> and cut down on stims and alcohol in order to reorganize the
> brains reward system. I find its ok to have a drink every now
> and then , but excessive drinking depletes the brain of important
> chemicals and intereferes with the depression treatment process.
>
> Good luck with your treatment.
>
> -John
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I have recently fallen into a deep depression that I had under control for 13 months through stimulants. I notice that in my depressed state, it takes much longer for me to get drunk--my tolerance is noticeably greater than when I wasn't depressed. Does this mean anything or does it hold any clues as to what chemicals are lacking in my brain? Thanks.
Posted by fuji on February 27, 2002, at 10:07:42
In reply to Alcohol Question, posted by George on February 26, 2002, at 14:14:28
"I am depressed so it takes longer to get drunk." Please tell me you're not really serious and you are just trying to be humorous. If you are serious then perhaps you might have an alcohol problem, and in that case alcohol is probably the worst anti-depressant ever made simply because it is a depressant. I still think you are just having us on though.
> I have recently fallen into a deep depression that I had under control for 13 months through stimulants. I notice that in my depressed state, it takes much longer for me to get drunk--my tolerance is noticeably greater than when I wasn't depressed. Does this mean anything or does it hold any clues as to what chemicals are lacking in my brain? Thanks.
Posted by Simcha on February 27, 2002, at 22:27:15
In reply to Re: Alcohol Question, posted by fuji on February 27, 2002, at 10:07:42
I have found that starting Klonopin has really made drinking a not so fun adventure. I have all but eliminated alcohol from my diet.
I was on 40mg Celexa and 200mg WellbutrinSR daily and at night I was grinding my teeth. The pdoc added 1mg of Clonazepam (I use the generic and it seems to do the trick! ;-) )
Since then one drink makes me quite buzzed. Two drinks and I'm almost out. I'm a big guy. I weigh 223 lbs. and I'm quite muscular. My tolerance was not great before Klonopin but now I have almost no tolerance to the effects of alcohol.
I guess I'm not an addict because I hate the feeling of being blotto. I can see why addicts would love to mix Klonopin and alcohol. It gets you blotto faster.
Now I have maybe a glass of wine on Thursday nights with a friend from work. He drinks the rest of the bottle. We eat cheese and crackers. I've explained my situation to him. He has AHDD and is on Cylert. He seems to understand that I do not enjoy the reaction of the medication and the Klonopin.
Also I figure that since I'm on three meds that get metabolized in the liver, I should give my liver a break by not using alcohol.
Well, that's my two cents on the alcohol issue.
Simcha
Posted by Frankie on February 28, 2002, at 0:27:37
In reply to PsychoStimulants and Depression, posted by George on February 27, 2002, at 5:03:39
> Hello. My physician decided to put me on stimulants after three years of unsuccessful treatment with 26 different antidepressants and combinations. Treatment with Adderall worked almost immediately and miraculously--giving me my life back for thirteen months. About a month ago, the Adderall started giving out, and now I'm back to a consistently depressed state. My depression is not any worse than it was before the stimulants--the same old thing. I don't drink very much--two or three drinks once per week. I've had partial success with the combination of Provigil and Wellbutrin. I'm also considering giving Dexedrine a try. Any advice?
>
>
> > For your depression, was your precribing physician
> > specifically choosing to use psychostimulants to treat
> > your disoder? Over time this may interfere with your bodies
> > natural reward mecanisms. As well does drinking. So for getting
> > depression treated, typically one will go on anti depressants
> > and cut down on stims and alcohol in order to reorganize the
> > brains reward system. I find its ok to have a drink every now
> > and then , but excessive drinking depletes the brain of important
> > chemicals and intereferes with the depression treatment process.
> >
> > Good luck with your treatment.
> >
> > -John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > I have recently fallen into a deep depression that I had under control for 13 months through stimulants. I notice that in my depressed state, it takes much longer for me to get drunk--my tolerance is noticeably greater than when I wasn't depressed. Does this mean anything or does it hold any clues as to what chemicals are lacking in my brain? Thanks.
Hello,Ultimately, alcohol will worsen depression. But furthermore, mixing alcohol with any antidepressant or stimulant will drastically reduce the effectiveness of the medication. I am sure that this is why you are not improving from your condition. Believe me, I have experienced the same thing. You are defeating the purpose of the antidepressant by keeping a supply of a depressant in your system. I am not trying to sound like a "know it all", but I guarantee you that if you give something like Effexor, or Prozac, a shot again, and keep the alcohol clean from your system for at least 6 months, you will improve. I guarantee it! And this means no alcohol at all. Not even one drink. Not until you begin to feel good on a daily basis. Unless, it is a bipolar state. Then you need a stabalizer too. If I were you, I would clean the alcohol out for a good period of time, try Effexor XR, and if it didn't work, try Wellbutrin. Reboxetine is a good new one too. It acts as a stimulant also. Good luck to you.
Frankie.
Posted by JohnX2 on February 28, 2002, at 1:47:12
In reply to PsychoStimulants and Depression, posted by George on February 27, 2002, at 5:03:39
Wow, sorry for the AD horror story.
I don't disagree with stims as a last ditch
depression treatment effort.Have you tried mood stabilizers?
Here are a couple of thoughts:
1) Lamictal - Great Reputation for treatment resistant depression
2) This is a way out there suggestion:
Acamprosate (an alcohol addiction medicine)
+ memantine (a neuroprotective medication)
Both of these medicines have been shown to
reduce tolerance/sensitization to opiods/ethanol/stimulants. This may turn your system back "on". Also may allow ADs to work.
Totally investigational thought. A few people on
this newsgroup have reported success using memantine (Akatinol) to alleviate tolerance to Adderall. The medicines are in clinical trials in
the US, but are available in Europe with a prescription.Sorry to hear about your plight.
Regards,
John> Hello. My physician decided to put me on stimulants after three years of unsuccessful treatment with 26 different antidepressants and combinations. Treatment with Adderall worked almost immediately and miraculously--giving me my life back for thirteen months. About a month ago, the Adderall started giving out, and now I'm back to a consistently depressed state. My depression is not any worse than it was before the stimulants--the same old thing. I don't drink very much--two or three drinks once per week. I've had partial success with the combination of Provigil and Wellbutrin. I'm also considering giving Dexedrine a try. Any advice?
>
>
> > For your depression, was your precribing physician
> > specifically choosing to use psychostimulants to treat
> > your disoder? Over time this may interfere with your bodies
> > natural reward mecanisms. As well does drinking. So for getting
> > depression treated, typically one will go on anti depressants
> > and cut down on stims and alcohol in order to reorganize the
> > brains reward system. I find its ok to have a drink every now
> > and then , but excessive drinking depletes the brain of important
> > chemicals and intereferes with the depression treatment process.
> >
> > Good luck with your treatment.
> >
> > -John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > I have recently fallen into a deep depression that I had under control for 13 months through stimulants. I notice that in my depressed state, it takes much longer for me to get drunk--my tolerance is noticeably greater than when I wasn't depressed. Does this mean anything or does it hold any clues as to what chemicals are lacking in my brain? Thanks.
Posted by pedr on February 28, 2002, at 8:13:04
In reply to Re: PsychoStimulants and Depression, posted by Frankie on February 28, 2002, at 0:27:37
Frankie,
"...but I guarantee you that if you give something like Effexor, or Prozac, a shot again, and keep the alcohol clean from your system for at least 6 months, you will improve. I guarantee it!" -
come on, you can't promise things like that! Nobody can predict what meds will or will not work for someone. I've tried Effexor, Wellbutrin and so on whilst abstaining from alcohol and they didn't work for me. Sure, abstaining from alcohol will probably increase someone's chances of feeling better but it isn't some kind of universal cure.Also consider that George has tried 26 A/Ds already. We're all here trying to help ourselves and others but guarantees that may not hold are not helpful and possibly harmful.
Rant over, I'll get off my soapbox etc. :-)
pete.
Posted by George on February 28, 2002, at 13:05:24
In reply to Re: PsychoStimulants and Depression, posted by pedr on February 28, 2002, at 8:13:04
I appreciate all of your feedback and know your comments come from genuine empathy and concern.
It must be said, however, that alcohol probably saved my life. As twisted this statement may seem, when antidepressants failed and failed again to help me, alcohol was the only treatment that gave me respite, however fleeting, from my consistently night-marish condition.
Abuse of anything is never good, be it alchohol, amphetamines, or whatever else. I drank in moderation, under the supervision of friends, and I couldn't have gotten through three years of failing treatment without it.
This probably belongs in another section of this website--sorry.
> Frankie,
> "...but I guarantee you that if you give something like Effexor, or Prozac, a shot again, and keep the alcohol clean from your system for at least 6 months, you will improve. I guarantee it!" -
> come on, you can't promise things like that! Nobody can predict what meds will or will not work for someone. I've tried Effexor, Wellbutrin and so on whilst abstaining from alcohol and they didn't work for me. Sure, abstaining from alcohol will probably increase someone's chances of feeling better but it isn't some kind of universal cure.
>
> Also consider that George has tried 26 A/Ds already. We're all here trying to help ourselves and others but guarantees that may not hold are not helpful and possibly harmful.
>
> Rant over, I'll get off my soapbox etc. :-)
> pete.
Posted by Elizabeth on February 28, 2002, at 17:00:52
In reply to Re: Alcohol Question, posted by Mark H. on February 26, 2002, at 17:40:42
> I was surprised to find out in my late 20s that most people don't get drunk. It just never occured to me that my experience was any different than anyone else's.
Perhaps you never noticed before that because the people who don't get drunk don't drink much. Personally, I just get tired and dizzy from alcohol. It doesn't feel especially good. So I don't drink except for wine with dinner sometimes.
> I didn't think I had a problem with alcohol, because I never missed work, didn't drink during the day, and didn't go to bars.
Do you now think that you have a problem with alcohol?
-elizabeth
Posted by Mark H. on March 1, 2002, at 20:18:02
In reply to Re: Alcohol Question » Mark H., posted by Elizabeth on February 28, 2002, at 17:00:52
Hi Elizabeth,
Thank you for your response. That was just my point as well. I have not had a drink now in a little over 20 years, and to this day, I cannot imagine why someone would enjoy drinking "socially" when they could get drunk instead.
That's part of why I believe it really is a "gene" and not a character trait or personality flaw. I see people walk away from their drinks and forget they are there -- when I drank, if other people left drinks lying around, I tended to finish them.
I think that those of us with the gene need to abstain. It's too bad, because it changes everything, but in the end, how else can we live responsibly? By the time I quit, I was having blackouts. Those who haven't experienced them sometimes think they're imaginary, but I can assure you that they are quite real.
One second you are in one place doing something, and literally the next second you are somewhere else, and the clock says several hours have passed. The first time it happens you think someone is playing a trick on you, setting your watch ahead. Slowly you have to face that you have literally "lost" that time, and you have no idea what you did, where you were, what you said... anything.
Do I now think I had a problem with alcohol back when I still drank? You bet I do.
Warm regards,
Mark H.
Posted by Frankie on March 2, 2002, at 4:00:47
In reply to Re: PsychoStimulants and Depression, posted by Frankie on February 28, 2002, at 0:27:37
> > Hello. My physician decided to put me on stimulants after three years of unsuccessful treatment with 26 different antidepressants and combinations. Treatment with Adderall worked almost immediately and miraculously--giving me my life back for thirteen months. About a month ago, the Adderall started giving out, and now I'm back to a consistently depressed state. My depression is not any worse than it was before the stimulants--the same old thing. I don't drink very much--two or three drinks once per week. I've had partial success with the combination of Provigil and Wellbutrin. I'm also considering giving Dexedrine a try. Any advice?
> >
> >
> > > For your depression, was your precribing physician
> > > specifically choosing to use psychostimulants to treat
> > > your disoder? Over time this may interfere with your bodies
> > > natural reward mecanisms. As well does drinking. So for getting
> > > depression treated, typically one will go on anti depressants
> > > and cut down on stims and alcohol in order to reorganize the
> > > brains reward system. I find its ok to have a drink every now
> > > and then , but excessive drinking depletes the brain of important
> > > chemicals and intereferes with the depression treatment process.
> > >
> > > Good luck with your treatment.
> > >
> > > -John
> > >
> > >
Hello guys,To add a bit to what I wrote a few days ago, I am not a Saint. I drink. Not all the time, but when I go out, it is a sure bet I'll have at least 2 beers. I realize that George has tried about every A/D there is, but I made the guarantee that if he would try the most beneficial one's again, but this time, do it under strict control of alcohol intake, he would improve at a much better clip. I did sound a bit confusing there. That is what I really meant. Sorry to confuse things. Good luck.
Frankie.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > I have recently fallen into a deep depression that I had under control for 13 months through stimulants. I notice that in my depressed state, it takes much longer for me to get drunk--my tolerance is noticeably greater than when I wasn't depressed. Does this mean anything or does it hold any clues as to what chemicals are lacking in my brain? Thanks.
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Ultimately, alcohol will worsen depression. But furthermore, mixing alcohol with any antidepressant or stimulant will drastically reduce the effectiveness of the medication. I am sure that this is why you are not improving from your condition. Believe me, I have experienced the same thing. You are defeating the purpose of the antidepressant by keeping a supply of a depressant in your system. I am not trying to sound like a "know it all", but I guarantee you that if you give something like Effexor, or Prozac, a shot again, and keep the alcohol clean from your system for at least 6 months, you will improve. I guarantee it! And this means no alcohol at all. Not even one drink. Not until you begin to feel good on a daily basis. Unless, it is a bipolar state. Then you need a stabalizer too. If I were you, I would clean the alcohol out for a good period of time, try Effexor XR, and if it didn't work, try Wellbutrin. Reboxetine is a good new one too. It acts as a stimulant also. Good luck to you.
>
> Frankie.
This is the end of the thread.
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