![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 26. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by IsoM on February 20, 2002, at 18:18:46
I think I've narrowed one of my problems & was wondering if anyone else has this problem too. If you have this, how do you handle it?
I find that I'm way too interested in way too many things in life. It's hard for me to be bored. My trouble is that I want to do everything, but often at the same time. I generally have a few different projects going at one time. When I'm at home, I'll be washing clothes, cleaning up the plants, making bread, listening to music, dancing with it, playing with my cats, checking the computer & answering posts & e-mails all at the same time. It's so hard to stick to just one thing - I feel like I'm missing out on something else. And it's so easy for my attention to be drawn to another thing just like that ("snap of fingers").
While this sounds wonderful, like I can do so much, I wonder if I actually get less done than if I stuck to one thing till I finished it. I feel like a hummingbird darting from one flower to another. Does this strike a responsive chord in anyone else? Is there a way to train or discipline myself differently? Is it a bad thing? I don't mind it too much except for this feeling of intensity inside me wanting to attempt everything.
I'm really sure it's not hypomania as this always seems to be my nature when my depression is treated. I DON'T have down time - always up time. Even when sleepy, if something comes along that grabs my attention, I'm off again. I love feeling like this but would like to channel or harness this to make myself more productive. Any suggestions or thoughts will be appreciated & thought over carefully.
Posted by bpbando on February 21, 2002, at 9:02:27
In reply to Anyone Who's ADHD and Also on Some Sort of Stims??, posted by IsoM on February 20, 2002, at 18:18:46
My first thought is do you finish your assorted projects or do they go wanting? If you do finish them then You dont have adhd you have an abundance of attention not a deficit.
You sound like me when my mood is stable and
I am on a ritalin holiday. Enjoy it!!!
Posted by IsoM on February 21, 2002, at 13:20:41
In reply to Re: Anyone Who's ADHD and Also on Some Sort of Stims??, posted by bpbando on February 21, 2002, at 9:02:27
Most things eventually get done, but not in the time frame they were meant to be done in. One small example is the spring bulbs I bought in the fall for planting then - most are still unplanted.
Oh, I do have an abundance of energy, which is marvellous but it does need channelling badly. BTW, I was diagnosed with ADHD by a psychologist with a series of tests & questionnaires.
Posted by Willow on February 21, 2002, at 16:03:21
In reply to Re: Anyone Who's ADHD and Also on Some Sort of Stims?? » bpbando, posted by IsoM on February 21, 2002, at 13:20:41
Could you break your jobs down into little tasks? I'm big on lists (though I haven't made one since starting effexor.) I find that when I'm able to stick to my list, checking things off as I go, I end up accomplishing more.
Just realized my quitting lists! Maybe I need to sit down and write one, my life has comes a complete incompletion.
Wilting Willow
Posted by IsoM on February 21, 2002, at 16:45:57
In reply to Just a thought ..., posted by Willow on February 21, 2002, at 16:03:21
Thank you so much for writing & coming up with a suggestion. I have done lists in the past, but soon got off track. I do keep going back & trying them though as I haven't come up with something better yet. Maybe I should use a very large sheet of brightly coloured paper smack dab in the middle of where I need to work around that wouldn't be so easily missed??
I think I need one of those little consciences that you see floating above someone's shoulder in movies or cartoons. Someone who'll give me a poke & say "Judy, get back & *finish* what you were just at!" And I'd say, "Oh! I never even noticed that I'd wandered away & started something else." Mind you, that would only be true half the time. Some times I do know, I've wandered off track - just so many things seem to bid for my attention at the same time & all seem equally attractive & important to me.
At work, I do very well on tasks that are assigned me. But then I ask what's most important to them & if there's an order that they'd prefer I do them in. *And* there's not other things to lure me away. I'm a hard worker & try not to waste time.
But I really do have trouble prioritising my own tasks & breaking them into manageable chunks. This must sound so lame (specially after some have said I've had some helpful tips for them), but I'd love it there was someone else around to keep a bit of a check on me & steer me back. Or give me a bit of verbal encouragement or reminders on what needs to be done.
Anything else you may think of would be very welcome! Willow, I enjoy your posts & gentle humour VERY much. Looks like you & I both could use a personal coach for a while. I hope 'Wilting Willow' will soon change into 'Whistling Willow'.
Posted by christophrejmc on February 21, 2002, at 17:19:17
In reply to Re: Just a thought ... » Willow, posted by IsoM on February 21, 2002, at 16:45:57
IsoM,
I don't know how much you use your computer, but is it possible for your son to write a small list program with alarms, etc.? If not, and you like the idea, I could throw a little DOS (assuming you're using MS Windows) program together if you're willing to wait for *my* ADD ;).Peace out,
ChrisP.S. - Judy! Before you explained why you chose IsoM, I thought your name was Isobelle M.; I'm having difficulty picturing you as "Judy."
Posted by IsoM on February 21, 2002, at 18:14:10
In reply to Re: Just a thought ... » IsoM, posted by christophrejmc on February 21, 2002, at 17:19:17
That's not a bad idea at all. I could set up some quite easily myself & then run them by him to make sure I did it properly.
I'd love him to set up a garden/plant program for me - that's beyond my limits with the database that I've been preparing. Really every garden software out there has some serious limitations. There's good ideas but I'd really like to incorporate all the good ones into one simple enough to use program. And I know it can be done. I know enough programming to understand how to develop it too.
I haven't asked much of my son lately as they're working on a big program now putting in tremendous hours. Two of the programmers actually pitched pup tents at the company to sleep in! At least, the company feeds them very good - different ethnic foods every night or whatever they want. And the bonuses when it's all over are good.
I really like the idea of buzzers going off. Or maybe I'll set it up with a deep voice saying "Are you doing your REAL work, Judy??!!" "Get back to it!!"
I hate my name Judy - dull, dull, DULL! Even Judith would be better. I like the Polish form, Yudita. IsoM is from my e-mail name, isomorphix. It's a biology term as all the ones I wanted to use were taken (must be a lot of biology nuts like me out there). IsoM is just shorter to use here & not easy to figure out the user's gender.
Posted by Mark H. on February 21, 2002, at 20:23:58
In reply to Anyone Who's ADHD and Also on Some Sort of Stims??, posted by IsoM on February 20, 2002, at 18:18:46
Dear IsoM,
You look completely organized and on-task compared to me! I have frequently threatened to go hire someone off the street out of my own pocket for minimum wage to sit beside me during the day and ask me every 15 minutes if I am on task, what should I do next, have I completed the things I need to get done, are my "visit Psycho-Babble reward breaks" in proportion to my work-time, and to clap and yell "Yay! Another page of the proposal edited! Good job! Good job!" from time to time as though I were a golden retriever learning the rudiments of fetching.
I can't even *remember* where the morning went during the months that I couldn't get to work before 2 or 3 in the afternoon. You at least can identify your interests and keep track of your activities. (I'm beginning to sound like Burt Lancaster in "Atlantic City": "The Atlantic ocean? That's nothing. You should have seen it in my day!")
And I'm not even ADHD, I'm plain old bipolar II. You're my MODEL for how to apply more self-discipline and stop waiting for the right med to get me to work by 10 in the morning.
Sue starts calling me at 7 in the morning (at my request). "Time to roll over and take your meds." Half an hour later, "Time to get up; when shall I call you again?" Half an hour later, "Hi, honey, just checking to see if you're on track." Without her, I'd have to have an answering service.
However, I also realize I need a balance. I spent YEARS getting to work and completing tasks through pure, unadulterated self-hatred. It worked, but now I have adrenal glands the size of baseballs and the bad skin to prove it. I also used to indulge in road rage, racing from one late appointment to the next. Now I basically refuse to break the speed limit, but sometimes it means I slip into indifference.
Balance, balance, balance.... Meds PLUS self-discipline; self-kindness PLUS a little motivation; being in the moment PLUS some carefully chosen goal-orientation.
Have you read the article "296 vs. 314" yet, IsoM? I re-posted it awhile back. It brilliantly reviews the differences (and similarities) between ADHDs and Bipolars by noting the way the two manifest in children. Fascinating!
After reading it, I knew my boss was SO ADHD and I was SO bipolar 2; it's like we're both cariactures of our syndromes.
Which reminds me... I just let another day slip by without remembering to call my psychiatrist's office for a refill of my new stimulants. But I *did* complete the editing of a proposal this afternoon. "Yay! Good dog! Well done! Thata boy!"
Affectionately,
Mark H.
Posted by Zo on February 22, 2002, at 2:12:16
In reply to Anyone Who's ADHD and Also on Some Sort of Stims??, posted by IsoM on February 20, 2002, at 18:18:46
Yes.
My god, woman, could I please have your life?
Zo
Posted by IsoM on February 22, 2002, at 3:08:20
In reply to Re: Anyone Who's ADHD and Also on Some Sort of Sti » IsoM, posted by Zo on February 22, 2002, at 2:12:16
I know, Zo, it does sound lame. "But hey! You've got so much going for you." And my reply is "yes, but..."
I feel that my good qualities are like little gemstone beads. Very pretty to look at, but not much use really. String them together & you'd at least have a lovely necklace. I just can't string my qualities together. And here at 52, I still don't know what I want to do with my life. All these Holland & other personailty tests strongly show that I'm meant to be a scientist, over & over again, it comes out that way. But I got side-tracked when I first entered university when young & now at my age, I don't have the sheer determination to go at it again. I tried a couple of years ago to go back to college. I got good grades, but the effort of studying full time & being sedentary that was needed for hours of study, lab write-ups, & homework set off headaches/migraines again - 3 or more a week. And my joints became so sore & stiff. I have something like fibromyalgia. I need to keep moving.
I also found out that a bachelor's in science would just make me a glorified lab flunky. I'd like to do research but I'm not prepared to get a doctorate. Even if I did, I know that I'd have my nose in every piece of research going on down the hall. I hate specialising - everything is interesting.
All I want to learn, now that I feel so good again, is how to string my gem beads to make a necklace that will prove useful. Does that make sense?
Posted by Squiggles on February 22, 2002, at 8:26:51
In reply to My Life » Zo, posted by IsoM on February 22, 2002, at 3:08:20
Hi Zo,
If your present situation (which sounds
so much like mine) bothers you, then you
should do something to change it. Try going
and taking a course in design perhaps if that
is what you like, or even just take a course
at a local college; you might even become
enterpreneurial about it and set up a boutique;
there are many things you can do to get out
of a rut, and that may make you happy; you can
always reverse things if they don't go your way;
drop out of a programme you thought you would
like for example.Squiggles
Posted by Dinah on February 22, 2002, at 10:51:35
In reply to Re: Anyone Who's ADHD and Also on Some Sort of Stims??, posted by Mark H. on February 21, 2002, at 20:23:58
Posted by BLPBart on February 22, 2002, at 11:38:41
In reply to 296 vs. 314 Interesting article (nm) » Mark H., posted by Dinah on February 22, 2002, at 10:51:35
Hi IsoM, I can relate somewhat to your frustration although mine is different. I have a million things I WANT to do but can't ever muster the motivation to actually do it. I have to have a job where my time is structured or I would just wander around my house doing nothing. This morning is a perfect example. My son is sick so I'm staying home with him. There are so many things around the house that I could be doing and so many hobbies that I could work on. Instead, I slept in (I always have trouble getting up), I checked e-mails, drank coffee, read some more e-mails, got up and wandered around a bit, checked e-mails again..... I feel like I'm wasting my entire life away. The one saving grace is my husband. If it weren't for him my house would be a mess, nothing would ever get done and I'd probably just sit around watching the tube all day. My pdoc just started me on dexedrine and I'm hoping it will work when I reach the therapeutic level. I'm only on 20 mg/day now along with 300 mg/day wellbutrin.
Posted by jazzdog on February 22, 2002, at 21:00:08
In reply to My Life » Zo, posted by IsoM on February 22, 2002, at 3:08:20
Hi Iso -Just a thought, but have you ever considered a degree in health science? Lots of interesting job opportunities, plenty of science, and with your writing skill and caring attitude, you'd be a great asset to the healing professions.
yours, Jane
Posted by jazzdog on February 22, 2002, at 21:26:26
In reply to Re: Anyone Who's ADHD and Also on Some Sort of Stims??, posted by Mark H. on February 21, 2002, at 20:23:58
Hi Mark -
I searched for this, but couldn't find it. Do you remember the date you posted it on? Thanks -
Jane
Posted by Zo on February 23, 2002, at 1:34:18
In reply to My Life » Zo, posted by IsoM on February 22, 2002, at 3:08:20
Of course it does. . .I'm ADD! And what I think is--I was thinking about you today, while I was driving--the whole set of beads has to be moved along, slowly, patiently, like a great ocean. This seems to be the way we are--not charging ahead in one area, but however unwillingly, the whole ball of wax, and there are great things to be had, with a consciousness like that. . .but it may not be at all what you had in mind. Have you read much on ADD? I find it a "conditon" that can bring one a great deal of pleasure in life, as we remain funny and in many ways childlike. . .while everyone around me grows ever more starchy and stiff. We have our dumb, wicked, eternal sense of fun.
Get weird.
Zo
Posted by swank chick on February 23, 2002, at 10:26:55
In reply to Re: My Life, posted by Zo on February 23, 2002, at 1:34:18
i was reading this thread and i thought to myself it is sooo nice to see people talking and careing, i recently was diagnosed ADD, and after reading this i feel strangly connected to the world now, before i thought i was the only person in the world that couldnt get herself outta bed and to work ontime even once a year let alone every day. i am also blessed with a son who i believe is ADHD, i am positive already and he's only 3, i am going to be dealing with this subject for a long time to come! i'm releaved to know that i can come here and just drown myself in your words to each other and feel better for knowing that im not alone.
thank you all for your chemical imbalances, if not for us the world would be a boring and timely place....and who likes that really?
stay strange
mari
Posted by Zo on February 24, 2002, at 22:32:50
In reply to Re: My Life, posted by swank chick on February 23, 2002, at 10:26:55
Posted by swank chick on February 25, 2002, at 13:48:17
In reply to Re: kewl! welcome! (nm) » swank chick, posted by Zo on February 24, 2002, at 22:32:50
Posted by Er on February 25, 2002, at 20:46:34
In reply to Anyone Who's ADHD and Also on Some Sort of Stims??, posted by IsoM on February 20, 2002, at 18:18:46
I know exactly what you mean. I just do my best to channel it for it's benefits. As a musician, ADHD helps me come up with about 20 songs an hour. Unfortunately, as a musician, ADHD makes it nearly impossible to finish, write down or record any of them. Same with drawings. I get most of my entertainment from computer games...online shooting games when I'm really really really ADHD, Civilization III when my Methylphenidate is still in my bloodstream.
As far as life goes, I've been everything from a gravedigger, waiter, Illustrator, computer techie, 3D animator, clerk, Photolab tech, camera salesman...the list goes on.
I think the MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT to managing ADHD, the key, in fact, the secret ANYONE with ADHD needs in order to get a hold on their life, is to WOW! a thread about Wellbutrin and sleep difficulties, laterEr
Posted by Maria Warren on February 26, 2002, at 11:03:41
In reply to Re: Anyone Who's ADHD and Also on Some Sort of Stims??, posted by Er on February 25, 2002, at 20:46:34
I knew our paths would cross on this post also! I was diagnosed ADD (not "H") way back before it was popular for adults to be so. (When I was forty, and I am now fifty nine.) Ritalin worked worked absolute wonders, but I tended to up the dose and my husband refused to have me on any drug with a potential for abuse so we switched to Wellbutrin SR. Within a week or two I became psychotic! As a result I now "manage" my ADD with lists and brightly colored postit notes. Please don't hit on my husband -- we have had 35 wonderful years. It's just that he just refuses to understand a few things, and this is a compromise. I have such fond memories of those days on Ritalin when life was like a jigsaw puzzle that fit!! Maria
Posted by bpbando on February 26, 2002, at 12:29:29
In reply to Re: 296 vs. 319 article » Mark H., posted by jazzdog on February 22, 2002, at 21:26:26
Mark H.
296 vs. 314
Bipolar Disorders (296) vs. Attention Deficit Disorders (314)
Superficially, individuals with 296 often are Hyperactive, Impulsive, and Inattentive; of course, individuals with 314 are also often Hyperactive, Impulsive, and Inattentive! During the course of an interview of any such individual it may be in fact impossible to determine the difference simply on the basis of their mental status features at that time.
Further confounding the matter is - often - the Family History. While Bipolar Disorder, under it's old name "Manic Depressive Disorder," was frequently applied to adults/parents in the past, A.D.D. is a relative newcomer to the adult diagnostic field, and so will very rarely have been previously diagnosed in an older relative. In fact most commonly one finds the next older generation, if diagnosed at all, considered Bipolar despite symptoms which sound precisely like A.D.D.
Another problem is emerging evidence that some individuals have BOTH! By the age of 35-40, as many as 85-90% of all people with A.D.D. have some clear mood disorder, and of that group about 5-7% appear to have Bipolar I or Bipolar II. Of course some people with clear Bipolar I or II also have A.D.D. These are not mutually exclusive diagnoses!
It is of considerable importance to do our very best to tease out which is which whenever possible, since treatment for the wrong condition OFTEN aggravates symptoms of the primary disorder.
In certain areas, "proponents" of 296 have circled wagons and are now in "camps" which reject any or all concept of A.D.D. as a viable/valid condition. We also see emerging some 314 circles denying the existence of Bipolar or at least arguing most people carrying the diagnosis are actually A.D.D.!
Please review the following guidelines with great care, and in every case consider yourself a neutral clinician whose only mission is to be careful and accurate in diagnosis! We do not want to make mistaken diagnoses of either condition! In fact we work in a Clinic which treats people with 296, 314, and BOTH 296/314. The idea is to do it right!Onset of Symptoms
In ADHD, this is typically very young: ages 2-6. When a child has been regarded as "Hyperactive" during the years 2-6 by Grandparents and Day Care staff, then ADHD is a primary diagnosis until proven otherwise.
In Bipolar Disorder, it is indeed possible to see symptom development in very young children, BUT THIS IS VERY UNUSUAL. Most individuals with 296 are described as relatively "normal" in mood and activity level (especially) until early adolescence.Extreme Reactions to Frustration
In general, the earlier the onset of VERY EXTREME temperamental reactions to even minute frustration, the more likely Bipolar is a major diagnostic consideration. This is a very consistent feature in the history of many adults with clear 296, but inconsistent in children with ADHD.
Exceptional Overactivity Early In School
This is in fact rather uncommon in the history of people with 296. It is common in people with ADHD. Restlessness, in and out of seat, up and down, disorganization, inattention, and disruptive behaviors are typical of ADHD children, but not Bipolar children, whose symptoms at that age (5-10) typically are far more emotional and temperamental.
Difficulty with Transitions vs. Changes
A child who reacts with emotional difficulty to any "transition" tends to be one with ADHD. A "transition" is defined as going from one reasonably expected activity to another, e.g from one class to another. A "change" is a MAJOR stress, such as from one school or area to another. Individuals with 296 consistently experience aggravation of symptoms when sleep-deprived, or when confronted with unusual stress/changes. Children and adults with ADHD usually have aggravated symptoms during almost any transition period, no matter how minor. Remarkable overreaction to a major change may be symptomatic of 296.
The Mood Disorder is Different
Individuals with ADHD have "mood swings" as they age which vary from High to Low, Euphoric to Depressed, by the HOUR (even the MINUTE!) or by the DAY. These "mood swings" are responsive to external events. While they are also "internal," the defining characteristics of mood swings in people with ADHD is an exaggerated response to external stimuli, and extreme rapidity of changes in
these moods - from hour to hour or day to day. When "down in the dumps" /depressed, a typical individual with an ADHD related mood disorder called by a friend to go bowling that night and maybe meet some interesting people tends to say "Yeah, cool!" and feel better right away. A person with true 296-driven depression tends to say "I don't feel up to it".
In effect, people with 314 have what we call "mood lability" which is very rapid and variable from hour to hour and substantially influenced by external influences. People with 296 have much less rapid mood cycles which are much less influenced by external events or stimuli: when "up" they tend to stay "up" for days or even weeks despite many failures, and when "down" even exciting and typically interesting things no longer appeal to them.
296 Has A Cyclic Character
A defining feature of Bipolar Disorder is, of course, a pattern of cycles of mood changes over time, over years, and with little or no influence by external events apart from sleeplessness or major change tending to precipitate a "manic phase." The same exact events in a person with ADHD, on the contrary, usually leads to what we call ADHD "shutdown:" withdrawal, hypersomnia, sloth, indolence, and lethargy.
314 never by itself has a cyclic character; in fact spouses of people with 314 report the "mood swings" are almost completely unpredictable, except when the ADHD individual is faced with an extraordinary frustration, whereupon he/she (usually he) "explodes," going from minor frustration (molehill) to the top of Mt. Everest in a microsecond.
An exceptionally important difference between the mood swings in ADHD vs Bipolar is this: within minutes, the individual with ADHD is again ranting and raving and blaming others but calmer, i.e. heading back toward the base of the mountain, while the patient with Bipolar is still up there and sailing from one peak of irrational thought and behavior to another. In people with 296 this kind of mania is sustained and perpetuated, while in people with 314 it is momentary, brief, and in many cases followed by an apology: "Sorry, Honey, I kinda flipped out."
Typically, the individual with 314 acknowledges (grudgingly) he/she just might have - shall we say - kinda "overreacted." On the other hand, the individual with 296 typically never displays any such insight and usually continues their out-of control behavior with very clear manic and grandiose overtones over hours, days, even weeks. People with ADHD can usually "calm down" and recognize their overreaction, while this insight is usually unavailable to people with Bipolar Disorder.
Mood "Elevations" in 314 Rarely Include Real Euphoria
In fact while acting "high" a person with A.D.D., although being very grandiose, bragging, intense, and intrusive rarely sustains a "high" mood of this kind for long, usually for minutes rather than hours, and hardly ever for more than a few hours: in Bipolar Disorder these periods of excitement and euphoria are usually sustained for several days, and sometimes for weeks.
In patients with A.D.D. these "highs" usually lack the wild, "over the edge" and/or "driven" excitement and hyper-intense projections of a patient with Bipolar Disorder. Usually one may detect very logical patterns in the train of thought of people with A.D.D., while during an interview with people with Bipolar/Manic stage it is difficult or even impossible to follow their logic, and the ideas and plans usually sound much more grandiose, far more illogical and impractical, and sometimes clearly psychotic.
"Lows" Are Briefer in 314
This is incredibly important! In terms of symptom description, these episodes of "Depression" may be precisely similar to those seen in other patients with Bipolar and/or Major Depression, but in patients with A.D.D. they are brief, often in response to external stress, and while intense usually limited to a few minutes or hours: almost never to days. People with A.D.D. are "just as moody," but far more responsive to external stimuli (frustrations and disappointments) than they are to internal cycles. In effect, "life seems worthless" to people with both conditions, but in those with A.D.D. these episodes are brief (minutes or hours) and in patients with Bipolar Disorder sustained over many days or weeks.
In most adolescents and adults with A.D.D., the level of depression is much less, and the condition tends to look more like Dysthymia than full-blown Major Depression. The "down" episodes are not so severe, and are more influenced by external events (in both ways -"depressed" because a boyfriend cancels a date; happy and excited again a few hours later because another boy calls and asks for a date!).
The mood disorder is usually, in adolescents and adults with A.D.D., relatively chronic, sustained over months or even years! extremely variable and often predictable given external events. In adolescents and adults with Bipolar Disorder there is much less response to external stimuli, much less day-to-day variability, and episodes of depression tend to be deeper and much longer. The pattern over time of these mood changes is usually very significantly different.
When confronted with an answer of "no," people with A.D.D. tend to argue and object. People with Bipolar Disorder buy the company which is denying cooperation, insist upon getting their way, stay up all night developing new schemes, and keep insisting upon more and even more elaborate schemes to develop alternatives.
Typically an adult with A.D.D. forgets what she/he was so intense about by the next morning, while an individual with Bipolar Disorder in a manic phase may be up all night developing new ways to promote his/her scheme and be even more hyperintense about it the following morning.
The Sleep Disorder Is Different
Adults with A.D.D. typically are like the Hare in a race with the Tortoise: they "go" at full speed in "bursts" of four, six, or 12 hours, then "crash." They may act very "manicky" and driven during this time, but their history reveals this is a very well - established pattern, has gone on for many years with only minor variations, and is a daily routine. The very intense effort and activity is then, in adults with A.D.D., followed by a "crash" that evening (very much like the Hare). People with A.D.D. alternate between speeds of 100 and zero EVERY DAY!
Consequently their daily sleep pattern tends to be fairly regular and predictable, especially to their spouse, and it does not vary much from month to month or year to year. At least 40% of individuals with A.D.D. have, since late childhood, difficulty falling asleep and lethargy upon awakening. Many have sought remedies for "insomnia" for years. In their case the complaint consistently refers to difficulty getting to sleep because of the myriad "thoughts" they have in the evening.
People with Bipolar Disorder tend to have prolonged periods of hypersomnia when depressed, and of course repeated episodes of extreme energy seemingly eliminating a need for sleep for periods of many days, or reduced sleep for weeks, when in a manic phase. While it is very uncommon for an adult with A.D.D. to experience intense excitement lasting for more than 6-12 hours, these episodes in adults with Bipolar Disorder may last for well in excess of 48-72 hours.
In effect, the sleep pattern is usually markedly different in people with A.D.D. vs Bipolar. It is very rare for any patient with A.D.D. to experience sustained hyperarousal over a period of days, and it is unusual for a patient with Bipolar Disorder to report a regular - over years - pattern of intense hyperfocus and effort during the day and long episodes of nocturnal sleep. In most individuals, the sleep/arousal pattern alone suggests a diagnosis of 314 vs 296.
Summary
1. OBSERVABLE SYMPTOMS: Often identical: Hyperactive, hyperfocused, intense, grandiose, temperamental. In 296: psychotic projections are common and grandiosity is usually substantial. In 314: psychotic projections are rare, grandiosity minimal.
2. AGE OF ONSET: In 314: ADHD evident by ages 3-6. In 296: rarely evident before mid-late adolescence.
3. EARLY SYMPTOMS: In 314: Hyperactivity, inattention, severe impulsivity. In 296: Fierce, extreme reactions to even minor frustration more commonly confused with oppositional Defiant Disorder. Violence is more common also.
4. HYPERACTIVITY IN SCHOOL during ages 5-10: 314: a very common complaint. 296: rare.
5. TRANSITIONS and CHANGES: 314: difficulty with any transition is common in history. 296: intense symptom onset after a MAJOR change is common, but rarely related to routine transitions.
6. MOOD DISORDER: 314: "Highs" and "Lows" tend to occur hourly or daily, usually influenced by external events. "Highs" are very rarely really euphoric, and are brief - rarely more than a few minutes or hours. "Lows if are also brief. 296: A defining characteristic is the persistence of an intense, "High" mood over a period of at least several days, and many would argue at least a week. This is very, very uncommon in 314.
7. SLEEP DISORDER: 314: daily variation between hypersomnia and insomnia. Problems getting to sleep followed by difficulty in arising. 296: persisting insomnia with accompanying excitement and intense hyperfocus often over days or even a week or more with little sleep. When this phase is over, individuals with 296 may have periods of hypersomnia and reported depression lasting for many days or weeks. Cycles of this kind are very rare in 314.
8. MEDICATION RESPONSE: usually, an individual with 314 feels more "relaxed" upon being given a stimulant medication. This is very rarely the case in anyone with 296. Lithium or Depakote may, of course, help the mood disorder in anyone - regardless of diagnosis. Stimulants may improve concentration and focus in anyone; positive response does not make a diagnosis!
Individuals with 296 will very rarely feel more relaxed and able to cope with stress when given a psychostimulant, while this is almost universally true of adults with 314.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thread
296 vs. 314 -- Anyone Know Who the Author Is? Mark H. 1/7/02
Re: 296 vs. 314 -- Anyone Know Who the Author Is? » Mark H. IsoM 1/9/02
Posted by jazzdog on February 26, 2002, at 13:09:58
In reply to here you go jazzdog , posted by bpbando on February 26, 2002, at 12:29:29
Wow - thanks a lot. I've bookmarked your response so I can refer to it whenever I have the presence of mind to observe my own symptoms.
Thanks again - Jane
Posted by IsoM on March 6, 2002, at 1:32:06
In reply to Re: Anyone Who's ADHD and Also on Some Sort of Stims??, posted by Er on February 25, 2002, at 20:46:34
Thank you, everybody who replied & gave ideas.
I've been away from the computer for almost two weeks (it was getting a change & was needed as a server briefly) so I'm only back reading replies tonight.
I think if I was younger & knowing what I know now, I'd tackle my ADHD differently. But I'm 52 now, not that old really, but any I'd be almost 60 before I have the training I'd need for what I want to do & then probably still wouldn't be satisfied. I'd always be wanting to learn & do something new.
Jazzdog, as much as I enjoy helping people, I'd find it very draining in a short while. I find it hard to be around people for long stretches - it's exhausting mentally.
And Zo, I so agree with you about "...we remain funny and in many ways childlike. . .while everyone around me grows ever more starchy and stiff." I find most people my age too stuffy & boring, only if they're eccentric are they great to be around!
Er, though I haven't held that many job titles, I understand. People with ADD & intelligence seem to be jack (or jill) -of-all-trades.
Just a extra on what I want to do with my life...
I wanted to order some plants from a nursery from the States & had to inquire what is & isn't allowed in the country. I ended up talking with someone from the Food & Agriculture Agency for 2 hours about everything. He gave me some solid leads on an idea that interested me a great deal in the field of unusual horticulture. If I can train myself to be more disciplined now with adrafinil, I think I'll give my ideas a go & see if I can parlay it into a possible career.
Posted by trouble on March 6, 2002, at 5:49:24
In reply to Re: Anyone Who's ADHD and Also on Some Sort of Stims??, posted by IsoM on March 6, 2002, at 1:32:06
Hi IsoM, welcome back. I have ADHD and never realized before that it may have somethig to do w/ my scattershot vocations and committments. Actually I haven't put much thought into the ADHD since the depression and personality disorders have required all my resources. But I think I need to become more strategic about the ADHD since it seems to get me in so much trouble. I can't walk from my kitchen to the bedroom w/out making 5 sidetrips along the way, I just figured I was stuck w/ being jumpy and highly distractable, but I can't stay on-task for more than 20 minutes at a time so it may be pathological. I'm going to look for some self-help books and see if they can give me some guidance.
I take provigil, 400 mg a day and it keeps me awake ( w/out it I have hypersomnolence, sleep 12-14 hours a day). No problems or side effects I know of, but I wish it made me focused and purposeful instead of this bundle of intensity. Of course I ought to factor in the 8 cups of coffee I drink every day too.Anyway, good luck w/your microbusiness endeavor, seems you found something fun and potentially rewarding. Nurturing life, sounds like a good gig.
trouble
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