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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by TomV on June 19, 2001, at 20:40:55
In reply to Please, does anyone know what this might be?, posted by Mikeey on June 19, 2001, at 4:06:39
> Sounds like it could be disociative disorder. Punch it into a search and you'll get lots of info on it.
Good luck.
Posted by PuraVida on June 19, 2001, at 23:22:13
In reply to Please, does anyone know what this might be?, posted by Mikeey on June 19, 2001, at 4:06:39
This is exactly the way depression manifests itself in me physically:
> Sometimes it feels like the surroundings are foggy, diffuse and distorted (like looking through a piece of glass or something). I also feel a kind o pressure behind my eyes (like after sleeping... and not feeling really awake
In fact, sometimes I'm afraid my friends can see my eyes at half mast, when I'm not really sleepy, but I just can't open them any wider!
Posted by Cece on June 20, 2001, at 1:32:05
In reply to Re: Please, does anyone know what this might be? » Mikeey, posted by PuraVida on June 19, 2001, at 23:22:13
Hi Mikeey-
I have also had these sorts of symptoms when very depressed- very disassociated, things looking foggy, distant, distorted, and also a headache that feels like my head is not only stuffed with cotton, but way over-stuffed. I didn't start to get any relief until my depression was diagnosed as bipolar depression and treatment was oriented appropriately.
It seems like from the feedback you're getting that a psychiatric, as well as a physical evaluation, are in order. I think most people on this board would also suggest that you get the psychiatric consult from a psychiatrist very experienced in mood disorders. "Regular", i.e. non-psych, docs are just not up enough on all the current info on meds to be able to skillfully diagnose and treat you- they tend to take a one-size-fits-all approach.
Good luck,
Cece
> This is exactly the way depression manifests itself in me physically:
>
> > Sometimes it feels like the surroundings are foggy, diffuse and distorted (like looking through a piece of glass or something). I also feel a kind o pressure behind my eyes (like after sleeping... and not feeling really awake
Posted by Mikeey on June 20, 2001, at 2:11:29
In reply to Please, does anyone know what this might be?, posted by Mikeey on June 19, 2001, at 4:06:39
Thank you!
/Mike
Posted by Amy Blue on June 20, 2001, at 13:32:28
In reply to Re: Please, does anyone know what this might be?, posted by Anna Laura on June 19, 2001, at 5:25:26
Mike-
I agree it sounds like anxiety to me. I've had this happen twice, both times severely and for several weeks. Didn't go away unless I took a benzodiazepene and then I was back to "normal" within a couple days (and much better within a couple hours).
If it's anxiety, I recommend trying Klonopin in conjunction w/ therapy to learn how to reduce anxiety w/out medication.
Good luck-
Amy
Posted by susan C on June 22, 2001, at 17:02:30
In reply to Please, does anyone know what this might be?, posted by Mikeey on June 19, 2001, at 4:06:39
> Mike, does it happen at a particular time of day? Or does something preceed it? Emotional or physical? Anybody else in your family experience it? I have similar experience and my pdoc talks about pre-seizure, circadian, genetic. wont show up on tests. I agree a evaluation by a good, intelligent intuitive pdoc is a good idea.
Posted by Elizabeth on June 25, 2001, at 6:04:23
In reply to Please, does anyone know what this might be?, posted by Mikeey on June 19, 2001, at 4:06:39
> My symptoms: A kind of lightheaded dizziness accompanied by a strange feeling of "unreality". Sometimes it feels like the surroundings are foggy, diffuse and distorted (like looking through a piece of glass or something). I also feel a kind o pressure behind my eyes (like after sleeping... and not feeling really awake. Sometimes it feels like I'm going to pass out, I start to sweat and may heart races.
Consider the possibility of panic disorder. All of the symptoms you describe are consistent with panic attacks. Another possibility is that you are having simple partial seizures. I would start out by seeing your GP and getting a referral to a neurologist, then see what the neuro says.
-elizabeth
Posted by Lawrence S. on June 25, 2001, at 12:31:42
In reply to Re: Please, does anyone know what this might be?, posted by gilbert on June 19, 2001, at 15:56:43
> Mike,
>
> I have had all those symtoms and sensations and typically those are associated with panic or anxiety disorder. Usually people with panic and anxiety are hyper vigilant about health symptoms. They are acutely sensed as to what is happening in their bodies.....heart beat etc. Those are feeilings I had all my life due to panic and anxiety....feelings of unreality......dazed out...etc. Get to a good doctor and talk if you have had all the necessary work ups and are certain it is pyscho symatic or pyschological in nature...you may be able to nip it in the bud without medication by seeing a good therapist.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Gil>Mike,
I get that "not really awake" feeling with actual flashbacks of dreams from the night before. Also accompanied by a scary Deja'vu feeling. Sorry if this posted twice. I'm kinda new to Psychobable.
>
> Lawrence S.
Posted by Mikeey on June 27, 2001, at 3:29:45
In reply to Re: Please, does anyone know what this might be?, posted by Lawrence S. on June 25, 2001, at 12:31:42
Here are some more info on my "case".
- I've seen several (3) neurologists and have had a complete neurological checkup (MRI, EEG, neuro exam, mental status...) - normal.Could the fact that I was diagnosed with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder as a child inrease the likelyhood of this beeing symptoms of an anxiety disorder?
/M
Posted by Elizabeth on June 27, 2001, at 11:41:33
In reply to More information.., posted by Mikeey on June 27, 2001, at 3:29:45
> Here are some more info on my "case".
> - I've seen several (3) neurologists and have had a complete neurological checkup (MRI, EEG, neuro exam, mental status...) - normal.Some types of seizure activity aren't picked up by regular EEGs. But anyway, the seizure thing is unlikely; it's just something that I mentioned because it is a possibility and some psych drugs lower the seizure threshold.
> Could the fact that I was diagnosed with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder as a child inrease the likelyhood of this beeing symptoms of an anxiety disorder?
Oh yes, absolutely.
In my experience, childhood-onset psych disorders like depression, ADHD, OCD, etc., do not always go away as you get older. In some cases, they can get worse as you're exposed to the stresses of adolescent and adult life.
-elizabeth (an early-onset depressive)
Posted by Zo on June 28, 2001, at 2:04:54
In reply to Re: Please, does anyone know what this might be?, posted by Lawrence S. on June 25, 2001, at 12:31:42
. . is a classic Temporal Lobe Epilepsy seizure. . .as are many frightening, nearly "psychedelic" perceptions, sometimes called Big & Small. . .feeling at a strange literal distance from everything. And one is aware, one does not blank out. It can feel like you must be crazy. . .but it's only TLE, and nothing to be overly concerned with if the symptoms are managealbe, as are mine, by a fairly innocuous med like Neurontin.
TLE often does not show up on EEG. . .An epileptologist is a better bet than plain neuro.
Good luck,
Zo
Posted by lawrence S. on June 29, 2001, at 2:34:01
In reply to Re: aha! Deja Vu, posted by Zo on June 28, 2001, at 2:04:54
> . . is a classic Temporal Lobe Epilepsy seizure. . .as are many frightening, nearly "psychedelic" perceptions, sometimes called Big & Small. . .feeling at a strange literal distance from everything. And one is aware, one does not blank out. It can feel like you must be crazy. . .but it's only TLE, and nothing to be overly concerned with if the symptoms are managealbe, as are mine, by a fairly innocuous med like Neurontin.
>
> TLE often does not show up on EEG. . .An epileptologist is a better bet than plain neuro.
>
> Good luck,
> Zo
>
> Thank you Zo for that invaluble info. For years I was sure that I was going crazy. When I told my psychiatrist about the Deja Vu feeling he looked like he was about to call the men in the white suits. I will look into this more. Hopefully it is something benign like TLE.
Can you tell me more about the symptoms you had?
>Lawrence S.
Posted by Elizabeth on June 29, 2001, at 8:56:29
In reply to Re: aha! Deja Vu, posted by Zo on June 28, 2001, at 2:04:54
> . . is a classic Temporal Lobe Epilepsy seizure. . .
Partial seizures with temporal foci come in so many flavours that it's hard to imagine any one sort that could be called "classic!" :-) (One could say that some symptoms are "classic," though, such as olfactory hallucinations and deja vu.)
Lawrence, could you say more about what you describe as "deja vu" feelings? The dream flashbacks are interesting. Anybody else have these, and if so, what causes them?
> And one is aware, one does not blank out.
In simple partial seizures, yes. Complex partial seizures (which can be localised in the temporal lobe) do include changes in level of consciousness.
-elizabeth
Posted by lawrence S. on June 30, 2001, at 8:24:46
In reply to Re: aha! Deja Vu, posted by Elizabeth on June 29, 2001, at 8:56:29
> > . . is a classic Temporal Lobe Epilepsy seizure. . .
>
> Partial seizures with temporal foci come in so many flavours that it's hard to imagine any one sort that could be called "classic!" :-) (One could say that some symptoms are "classic," though, such as olfactory hallucinations and deja vu.)
>
> Lawrence, could you say more about what you describe as "deja vu" feelings? The dream flashbacks are interesting. Anybody else have these, and if so, what causes them?
>
>
> > I'll try. This is difficult to put into words. And I've been trying to forget these horible feelings. When I get these episodes It feels as if I'm slipping into a coma. But I've never been in one. I don't know why I choose that word. And it's like half of my brain is awake and the other half is sleeping. Fragments of dreams come out of the blue. but there all jumbled together like a radio thats pulling in several stations at once with a lot of static mixed in.
The deja-vu is so intense that time doesn't seem to exist and reality is like a skipping record that has been skipping for eternity.
These symptoms began when I started taking Halcion (bezodiazepine sleeping pill). Which I only took for 3weeks.
A.Ds and Klonopin have almost eliminated these bizarre experiences.
>
>Lawrence S.
>
>
> > And one is aware, one does not blank out.
>
> In simple partial seizures, yes. Complex partial seizures (which can be localised in the temporal lobe) do include changes in level of consciousness.
>
> -elizabeth
Posted by Zo on July 1, 2001, at 1:29:10
In reply to Re: aha! Deja Vu, posted by Elizabeth on June 29, 2001, at 8:56:29
> > . . is a classic Temporal Lobe Epilepsy seizure. . .
>
> Partial seizures with temporal foci come in so many flavours that it's hard to imagine any one sort that could be called "classic!" :-) (One could say that some symptoms are "classic," though, such as olfactory hallucinations and deja vu.)Elizabeth. . .I feel uncomfortable with your post. . like it's a corrective. I admire your knowledge, but I didn't come here to speak about my conditions in order to be corrected. Do you have TLE?
No?
I'm also a writer, not a scientist. I don't see any restrictions on PyschoBabble to speaking anecdotally.
Now, shall we begin again? Deja vu experiences - as well as jamais vu, are classic sensations whilst having seizures of the temporal lobes.
Good enough?
Zo
Posted by Zo on July 1, 2001, at 1:41:01
In reply to Re: aha! Deja Vu, posted by lawrence S. on June 29, 2001, at 2:34:01
Lawrence. . .I've had every weird symptom in the book. . .only there is no book. Except there is a book, named Seized, now sadly out of print but look at library, I found one used online for not too much. TLE seizures can mimic mania, include religious experiences, indeed some say the great mystics and their visions were forms of TLE - it is hard to argue where electrical sensations leave off and the spirit begins. You can get a feeling for the variety of experiences on the Massachusetts General Neuro board. I am photosensitive, which means the "blinking" lights of a bridge whipping past on a sunny afternoon used to induce terrible, frightening spells where my vision suddenly seemed to be coming from down a long tunnel, my own hands on the wheel very strange and very far away. Things can seem minute or too large. Some people smell things. . .I've seen "animals" scampering away out of the corner of my eye. . .It all sounds quite mad, of course. Some people have migraine-like auras, and feel nauseous; the two conditions are interrelated. . . .My eyes still can go out of focus if I look at a certain kind of disappearing graphic on the web or on TV. . .The flickering of fire. . .kind of trance-like. And all of this, of course, I kept to myself. . .eventually I began to feel "brain sick" at 4 or 5 every day. . And it wasn't til I was put on Neurontin for pain and all these other symptoms went away that I began to be able to examine what I had lived with and be out front about it to my pdoc. . in part because they are subtle, almost mystical, very subjective experiences. A few times I've been told I go into a stare. Hyperventiliating brought on sudden disorientation. It would take a post much longer than this to explain! Do a web search. . .some interesting writing around. You'll get a flavor for it that way.
Zo
Posted by geekUK on July 1, 2001, at 4:17:50
In reply to Re: aha! Deja Vu » lawrence S., posted by Zo on July 1, 2001, at 1:41:01
I have read a few posts on TLE, what interests me is I have some strange things happen that I tipcaly dont think about but could they be tle? derealisation/ depersonalisation. about a sense of distance and unreality of the world, as if your looking at the world through the wrong end of the binoculars (just the feeling), and a sense of bodily unreality, my body becomes ultra sensitised (but no heartbeat feeling). I did used to have panic attacks, but I only had a few. these dont feel 'panicky' uncomfortable is better. this is not enduced by effexor.
the second and most important, ever sinse I was a kid/particularly then. I got a big/little attack!!
classic example lying in bed, getting strange feeling, hands feel tingley and tounge, experiance a feeling (somewhere??) that something was big and small at the same time/ or thin/fat. sometimes accompanyed by a sound like a a tape playing a voice at ultra high speed. My 1st love used to get these things too, kinda thought it made us soulmates!!. I was wondering if anyone knew what this is or if indeed we were soulmates!!
Posted by Elizabeth on July 1, 2001, at 15:49:31
In reply to Re: aha! Deja Vu, posted by lawrence S. on June 30, 2001, at 8:24:46
Lawrence,
That sounds really scary, and it doesn't sound like typical descriptions of panic or anxiety attacks. It might very well be a type of seizure (partial, not generalised or "grand mal"), and I think that you should talk to your GP about seeing a neurologist for a consultation and/or having an EEG.
The dream flashbacks, together with the response to antidepressants (albeit with Klonopin), have me a little puzzled. A multiple sleep latency test (sleep study) might be in order (this includes a sleep EEG).
> These symptoms began when I started taking Halcion (bezodiazepine sleeping pill). Which I only took for 3weeks.
> A.Ds and Klonopin have almost eliminated these bizarre experiences.Huh. Which ADs?
I wonder if the experiences might have been triggered by rebound symptoms. At what time of day did you first start having these attacks (for want of a more precise word :-) ). Halcion is a very short-acting benzodiazepine and does have the potential to cause rebound insomnia. I'm not sure about its anticonvulsant properties compared to other benzos, but if you already had a lowered seizure threshold (for whatever reason), Halcion rebound could conceivably push you over the edge, so to speak.
-elizabeth
Posted by Elizabeth on July 1, 2001, at 16:25:56
In reply to Re: aha! Deja Vu » Elizabeth, posted by Zo on July 1, 2001, at 1:29:10
> > > . . is a classic Temporal Lobe Epilepsy seizure. . .
> >
> > Partial seizures with temporal foci come in so many flavours that it's hard to imagine any one sort that could be called "classic!" :-) (One could say that some symptoms are "classic," though, such as olfactory hallucinations and deja vu.)
>
> Elizabeth. . .I feel uncomfortable with your post. . like it's a corrective. I admire your knowledge, but I didn't come here to speak about my conditions in order to be corrected.I suppose you could call it "corrective," but I think that "additive" is more descriptive of the part you chose to cite. The "classic" thing is just semantics: I was taking an opportunity to comment on the incredible variety of rather curious experiences reported by people with TLE.
(There was a part of my post that I'd call "corrective," but it was a completely different point than the remark you quoted.)
I'm sure that, as a writer, you appreciate the value of clarity. Please don't take my post as a threat or attack of any kind. That's not at all the spirit in which it was intended.
> Do you have TLE?
I would hope that you'd recognise that not having TLE does not equate to ignorance of TLE (and, for that matter, that having TLE does not make one an expert on it). But since you ask, I have had limbic partial seizures, although I don't have epilepsy. I'm also generally curious about the type of experiences that can be generated by temporal lobe seizures, and about the similarity of some of these experiences to those associated with "psychiatric" events (such as panic attacks and dissociative states).
> I don't see any restrictions on PyschoBabble to speaking anecdotally.
Me neither, and in any case, I don't presume to enforce the rules here -- although I don't see any restrictions on disagreeing as such, much less on simply adding to a point made by another poster.
Of course it's okay to post your own experiences. It's also okay to add that experiences that are described in some of the same terms as yours may not have the same cause as yours, or that TLE (for example) produces a number of different types of experiences (not just the type of experiences that one individual with TLE has).
Everybody has something of value to say. I'm sorry to hear that my attempt to elaborate on your post caused you discomfort. Really, the "classic symptoms" issue shouldn't be taken too seriously (IMO).
What type of writing do you do, BTW?
-elizabeth
Posted by Zo on July 1, 2001, at 22:56:20
In reply to silly arguments :-) » Zo, posted by Elizabeth on July 1, 2001, at 16:25:56
Thanks, Elizabeth. Not major discomfort, you'll notice, just some. . .And I think I pretty well knew you would receive it well.
I am a novelist, tho I've also just completed a book called The Fatigue Chronicles. ..about Chronic Fatigue, depression, life, death, the usual. Not nearly so depressing as it sounds! May have to put it up on the web for the time being, am still financially dependent on abusive, well-to-do ex who I know isn't too tickled about the truth (NPD / Sociopath / Schizoid.)
(*That's* going in a whole nother novel :o) )
Zo
Posted by Mitch on July 2, 2001, at 12:09:02
In reply to Re: aha! Deja Vu, posted by geekUK on July 1, 2001, at 4:17:50
GUK,
Just an FYI, I have noticed recently that if I sit too close (within five or six feet) to the TV and watch it attentively for very long and go outside and drive around I feel all "spaced out" for a couple of hours. I just don't feel like "I'm there". It is like the whole world is just a movie I am watching that I am not part of. I just have a suspicion of TLE and family epilepsy, though.
Mitch
> I have read a few posts on TLE, what interests me is I have some strange things happen that I tipcaly dont think about but could they be tle? derealisation/ depersonalisation. about a sense of distance and unreality of the world, as if your looking at the world through the wrong end of the binoculars (just the feeling), and a sense of bodily unreality, my body becomes ultra sensitised (but no heartbeat feeling). I did used to have panic attacks, but I only had a few. these dont feel 'panicky' uncomfortable is better. this is not enduced by effexor.
> the second and most important, ever sinse I was a kid/particularly then. I got a big/little attack!!
> classic example lying in bed, getting strange feeling, hands feel tingley and tounge, experiance a feeling (somewhere??) that something was big and small at the same time/ or thin/fat. sometimes accompanyed by a sound like a a tape playing a voice at ultra high speed. My 1st love used to get these things too, kinda thought it made us soulmates!!. I was wondering if anyone knew what this is or if indeed we were soulmates!!
Posted by Zo on July 2, 2001, at 23:42:55
In reply to Re: aha! Deja Vu dreamy states » geekUK, posted by Mitch on July 2, 2001, at 12:09:02
Mitch,
I'm not aware of TLE seizure states lasting for a few hours. . .but then, it's relationship to migraine. . .why the hell not. I do know the perceptual feeling that everything is a movie. Depersonalization doesn't quite say how literal this and similar TLE states are. But for me, anyway, they pass after a loooong few minutes, and on Neurontin, have largely disappeared.> Just an FYI, I have noticed recently that if I sit too close (within five or six feet) to the TV and watch it attentively for very long and go outside and drive around I feel all "spaced out" for a couple of hours. I just don't feel like "I'm there". It is like the whole world is just a movie I am watching that I am not part of. I just have a suspicion of TLE and family epilepsy, though.
>
> Mitch
>
> > I have read a few posts on TLE, what interests me is I have some strange things happen that I tipcaly dont think about but could they be tle? derealisation/ depersonalisation. about a sense of distance and unreality of the world, as if your looking at the world through the wrong end of the binoculars (just the feeling), and a sense of bodily unreality, my body becomes ultra sensitised (but no heartbeat feeling). I did used to have panic attacks, but I only had a few. these dont feel 'panicky' uncomfortable is better. this is not enduced by effexor.
> > the second and most important, ever sinse I was a kid/particularly then. I got a big/little attack!!
> > classic example lying in bed, getting strange feeling, hands feel tingley and tounge, experiance a feeling (somewhere??) that something was big and small at the same time/ or thin/fat. sometimes accompanyed by a sound like a a tape playing a voice at ultra high speed. My 1st love used to get these things too, kinda thought it made us soulmates!!. I was wondering if anyone knew what this is or if indeed we were soulmates!!
Posted by Mitch on July 3, 2001, at 0:05:09
In reply to Re: aha! Deja Vu dreamy states » Mitch, posted by Zo on July 2, 2001, at 23:42:55
Zo,
What I am describing is not acutely *episodic* in the case of a seizure or a panic attack for example. All I can say is that when I experience perceptual stimulii it tends to "echo" or "hang-around" in my head. Actually, I think the experience I described is actually quite common-you know after you come out of a movie theatre in the daytime after being inside for a couple of hours? You have to get your "land-legs" so to speak. You are somewhat disoriented. It just takes a lot longer for me to "shift gears" back into a different perceptual frame of mind. I have also noticed this especially with stimulant meds or AD's that boost norepinephrine which helps with my ADHD. Sound becomes more "directional" and "discrete", whereas normally it just seems to come from inside my head for the most part. There is a shift from the "subjective" perception in my mind of sound to a more *objective* experience of *listening* to the music.
Mitch
> Mitch,
> I'm not aware of TLE seizure states lasting for a few hours. . .but then, it's relationship to migraine. . .why the hell not. I do know the perceptual feeling that everything is a movie. Depersonalization doesn't quite say how literal this and similar TLE states are. But for me, anyway, they pass after a loooong few minutes, and on Neurontin, have largely disappeared.
>
> > Just an FYI, I have noticed recently that if I sit too close (within five or six feet) to the TV and watch it attentively for very long and go outside and drive around I feel all "spaced out" for a couple of hours. I just don't feel like "I'm there". It is like the whole world is just a movie I am watching that I am not part of. I just have a suspicion of TLE and family epilepsy, though.
> >
> > Mitch
Posted by Elizabeth on July 3, 2001, at 13:45:03
In reply to Re: silly arguments :-) » Elizabeth, posted by Zo on July 1, 2001, at 22:56:20
> Thanks, Elizabeth. Not major discomfort, you'll notice, just some. . .And I think I pretty well knew you would receive it well.
Well, thank you. I'm glad the misunderstanding was only a minor one.
> I am a novelist, tho I've also just completed a book called The Fatigue Chronicles. ..about Chronic Fatigue, depression, life, death, the usual. Not nearly so depressing as it sounds!
Depressing? It sounds so bouncy and cheerful! :-) Is it a novel, biography, ...?
Hmm, so you have CFS too? Is that related to the epilepsy? How do you deal with it?
> May have to put it up on the web for the time being, am still financially dependent on abusive, well-to-do ex who I know isn't too tickled about the truth (NPD / Sociopath / Schizoid.)
Yikes! I've heard my share of "horrible ex" stories, but that sounds exceptionally unpleasant. I hope you can get the money thing straightened out so you don't have to have anything more to do with your ex.
> (*That's* going in a whole nother novel :o) )
Sounds like it will make an...*interesting* one! (Be sure to make the character a really obvious caricature of the real person, with the name, social security number, etc. changed only slightly. < g >)
-elizabeth
Posted by Elizabeth on July 3, 2001, at 13:51:16
In reply to Re: aha! Deja Vu dreamy states » Mitch, posted by Zo on July 2, 2001, at 23:42:55
> I'm not aware of TLE seizure states lasting for a few hours. . .but then, it's relationship to migraine. . .why the hell not.
There is such a thing as "complex partial status epilepticus," but it's (supposedly) very rare. I think the CW is that if a partial seizure goes on for very long, it almost always becomes generalised. A few minutes (or even seconds), like Zo described, is the usual duration.
OTOH, I've heard of people having "blackouts" lasting several hours or more that didn't seem to be related to drug use or a dissociative disorder; presumably there's something weird going on there.
> I do know the perceptual feeling that everything is a movie.
Me too. (Well said, BTW, Mitch.)
-elizabeth
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