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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by gilbert on June 5, 2001, at 15:09:35
Thanks tons for all the info and suggestions. I am going to go off the prozac only been on it for 6 days at 5mg. and I am on the ceiling really agitates me and I need to do more xanax then as if I were not taking it. I do so well on the xanax 5mg twice a day that I hate to screw with what works....my agoraphobia and panic are non existent since starting this drug 2 years ago. Is there something I could add to the xanax to dampen the OCD. I am going back to therapy in hopes I can treat the OCD without meds because my obsessions seem to relate more to mdiecal issues and medicine issues.....I spend a little too much time on the internet searching out drug options. I never seem to find solutions just more doubt which then increases my searching kind of little thinking loops. I have also obsessed with trying meds but am so hypersensitve to the meds it seems like any of the antidepressants I try give me panics....even the so called sedative ones like paxil and luvox tweeked me. I spend about 2 hours per day involved in this activity. My panic and agoraphobia are being held at bay. I am wondering since OCD is usually anxiety driven if I still have some anxiety I am not feeling physically and if possibly an increase in xanax would alleviate this. I have not tried that either.....and as you mentioned there is remeron but I have put 20 pounds on in 2 years...not good for my blood pressure and I don't want remeron to add more weight and more cholesterol which I read occurs in as much as 20% of remeron users therby increasing my BP and adding to my dilema my Internist wants my weight down so I don't have to increase my dose of Zestril. P.S. I was on beta blockers for the tachycardia and my pulse went to under 40 beats per minute the doc did not like it.....me either. I run for exercise and I run around 25 miles per week my normal resting pulse is around 50 because of all the road work I put in. The xanax keeps my heart nice and relaxed and helps keep the BP down too so I am getting pretty good coverage from the xanax. Like I have said before maybe this is a good as it gets which is cool too. There sure are alot of great people who come to this site.
Gil
Posted by stjames on June 5, 2001, at 15:54:47
In reply to TO SALARMY AND ELIZABETH THANK YOU, posted by gilbert on June 5, 2001, at 15:09:35
You might consider Klonipin, which is related to Xanax, but longer acting. Less pills to take/fewer doses a day.
James
Posted by gilbert on June 5, 2001, at 16:27:17
In reply to Re: TO SALARMY AND ELIZABETH THANK YOU, posted by stjames on June 5, 2001, at 15:54:47
> You might consider Klonipin, which is related to Xanax, but longer acting. Less pills to take/fewer doses a day.
>
> I tried Klonopin and loved it the strangest thing was at 5mg 3 times a day it made me impotent, no other drug not even an antidepressant has done this to me. The xanax can give me mild anorgasmia once in a while but not too often. I did like the smoothness of the klonopin versus the xanax and would prefer to use it instead but the wife she's not ready to retire her libido yet. At this point in my recovery sex seems to be taking a lower priority all the time. I am willing to give up a little sex for a lot of comfort. The xanax gives me a pretty smooth ride too I don't get too much rebound on it. I quit it once in a while without any difficulty contrary to all the literature. ThanksGil
Posted by chloe on June 5, 2001, at 19:57:37
In reply to Re: St James, posted by gilbert on June 5, 2001, at 16:27:17
Gilbert,
Since you are so med sensitive, have you ever considered that you are on too much Prozac for you? How about 2 and a 1/2 or some dose that doesn't "put you on the ceiling." The SSRI's are really good for the ocd. So perhaps modifying and tinkering with the dose would make life a little more tolerable without disgarding a potentially helpful drug!I say this because I am one 1 mg of Celexa and that seems to be just enough for me. If I go higher, I start to go hypomanic, grind my teeth and am so irritable and pressured. On 5 mgs of Celexa, I found that I wanted to run everywhere! Finally on just one milligram, I can sit still. What a relief!
Just my two cents...
Chloe
Posted by Rick on June 5, 2001, at 20:49:15
In reply to TO SALARMY AND ELIZABETH THANK YOU, posted by gilbert on June 5, 2001, at 15:09:35
Gil -
It's not at unusual that a given med could alleviate some kinds of anxiety for you while having minimal impact on others, in this case OCD.
(Of course, there are dosage and length-of-trial considerations as well.)I know that my own med cocktail + weight loss works wonderfully for my social anxiety but does nothing at all for my obsessions and compulsions. In a lot of ways, my situation parallels yours. My knowledge of social anxiety as a disorder came at about the same time as my discovery that I needed to make some changes to protect my physical health. , but the results of my first thorough health screening finally kicked me into action. Ironically, this decision was cemented by a nervous and headachy visit to a health-screening clinic at our office complex two years ago, and the results came back pretty darn bad on just about all the major risk factors. I had known for years that I needed to lose weight, but had never had the importance of this driven home until getting back the lab results. After losing 50 pounds (in a gradual, non-gimmicky way that still allows me to eat whatever I want Fri-Sun), and initiating med treatment for my anxiety, everything's changed physically: My blood pressure, which I hadn't even realized was high, has plummeted; my HDL is great, Triglycerides great; LDL down from very high to borderline high; and blood sugar well within the normal range. (In addition to the effects of weight-loss and anxiety-reduction, I think that Serzone and Klonopin both have a direct blood pressure-lowering effect for me, and Serzone seems to lower and smooth out my blood sugar some.) And, despite the fact that weight loss alone doesn't usually get rid of sleep apnea completely (so I've read), it apparently did the trick for me. Now, I'm by no means slim...I'm probably still a good 10-20 pounds above ideal weight, but I'm not trying to lose any more. I sleep great now even though I never take meds after mid-afternoon. For awhile I took a tiny dose of the beta-blocker pindolol (to double as a heart-rate/BP reducer AND calming agent). I liked it a lot but I can't take it today because I'd become hypotensive.
And this all happened without significant exercise...I'd clearly be doing even better both physically and mentally if I added that into the mix. I'm going to try to emulate your efforts on that count.
BTW, in your later post you did mean ".5 mg" Klonopin three times a day didn't you. If it was really "5 mg" three times a day, I would imagine, yes, that you would be impotent!!! I'm just curious -- how long did you take Klonopin? If it was just a short time, it's *possible* you would have later gotten past the impotency. There are quite a few med, herbal and even physical antidotes for different kinds of med-induced sexual dysfunction. Just a handful of examples would include Gingko (maybe better for women --and check with doc if you're already taking aspirin for blood thinning); the anti-anxiety med BuSpar, Wellbutrin or low-dose selegeline (but may increase anxiety some, and the latter is potentially dangerous in combo with some other meds); and Viagra, especially for impotence. These "remedies" are ususally prescribed for sexual problems induced by many AD's, but -- and this is just conjecture -- I don't see why some of them wouldn't work with some kinds of benzo-induced sexual problems. If you try any "natural" substances, be sure to to tell your doctor, because of possible physical risks. E.g., Yohobomide (sp???), widely sold over-the-counter, can raise blood pressure.
Good luck to you. It nice to hear that you've got your head screwed on straight re expectations.
Rick
> Thanks tons for all the info and suggestions. I am going to go off the prozac only been on it for 6 days at 5mg. and I am on the ceiling really agitates me and I need to do more xanax then as if I were not taking it. I do so well on the xanax 5mg twice a day that I hate to screw with what works....my agoraphobia and panic are non existent since starting this drug 2 years ago. Is there something I could add to the xanax to dampen the OCD. I am going back to therapy in hopes I can treat the OCD without meds because my obsessions seem to relate more to mdiecal issues and medicine issues.....I spend a little too much time on the internet searching out drug options. I never seem to find solutions just more doubt which then increases my searching kind of little thinking loops. I have also obsessed with trying meds but am so hypersensitve to the meds it seems like any of the antidepressants I try give me panics....even the so called sedative ones like paxil and luvox tweeked me. I spend about 2 hours per day involved in this activity. My panic and agoraphobia are being held at bay. I am wondering since OCD is usually anxiety driven if I still have some anxiety I am not feeling physically and if possibly an increase in xanax would alleviate this. I have not tried that either.....and as you mentioned there is remeron but I have put 20 pounds on in 2 years...not good for my blood pressure and I don't want remeron to add more weight and more cholesterol which I read occurs in as much as 20% of remeron users therby increasing my BP and adding to my dilema my Internist wants my weight down so I don't have to increase my dose of Zestril. P.S. I was on beta blockers for the tachycardia and my pulse went to under 40 beats per minute the doc did not like it.....me either. I run for exercise and I run around 25 miles per week my normal resting pulse is around 50 because of all the road work I put in. The xanax keeps my heart nice and relaxed and helps keep the BP down too so I am getting pretty good coverage from the xanax. Like I have said before maybe this is a good as it gets which is cool too. There sure are alot of great people who come to this site.
>
> Gil
Posted by grapebubblegum on June 5, 2001, at 22:39:05
In reply to Re: TO SALARMY AND ELIZABETH THANK YOU » gilbert, posted by Rick on June 5, 2001, at 20:49:15
I don't mean to beat a dead horse by mentioning klonopin AGAIN, but I also hope you meant .5 mg and not 5 mg. I cannot fathom how anyone could take 5 mg 3 times per day but I understand that some people might have to for seizure control.
Gil, you and I are on sort of twin paths, with a lot of similarities. I also have a low resting heartrate and low blood pressure.
I have successfully, over the last few weeks, tapered down from the 20 mg. of Paxil per day that I was taking down to none, and instead I am taking .125 mg of klonopin three times a day. (The doc prescribed .5 mg 3x per day but told me to take half that if it works.) Sounds like a tiny dose, but it REALLY helps me. At first even that tiny dose knocked me on my a** so that I would start falling asleep if I even sat down at the computer and I was not altogether safe as a driver. But in only a week or so I got completely accustomed to the sedative effects so that I don't even feel them, yet the anxiety is at bay. And I am sorry to knock the SSRIs which help so many people and have helped me in the past, but I have NEVER FELT BETTER. I wonder if people like me and you don't "need" SSRI's, or rather if they have too broad an effect for too narrow a desired effect.
Just like you (are you sure we are not twins separated at birth or something?) I have noticed a return to a little bit of obsessivness, but I think it's well within the range of work-with-able. Actually, I have felt just a tad manic but then again, what I could be interpreting as manic is just a return to my normal personality which is not dulled anymore by the SSRIs. That means I can actually cry if the situation warrants it but I'm by no means any kind of emotional wreck. I can get pretty fired up over ideas and projects or get a little overzealous about explaining these things to people (that's what I meant by quasi-manic, but then who's to say that might be normal for me, and I am a creative person so that might be part of my personality) but I do sleep well every night and I don't feel that my moods are out of control in any way.
I have lost four pounds in the few weeks since I gave up Paxil. I have somehow found the resolve to work on my weight. I really truly believe that the Paxil was ****ing with my blood sugar. All I can say is that I feel clear-headed for the first time in a long time, I sleep well without that half-asleep feeling I had on all SSRIs, and the sex life has been the best. I have to admit that was my main motivating factor to getting off the SSRIs.
My long-winded point is that you might try a micro-dose of klonopin like I am taking. Maybe it would provide adequate symptom relief for you and, especially after getting accustomed to the drug, might not cause sexual problems at all.
Just my 25 cents worth. Good luck!
Posted by gilbert on June 6, 2001, at 0:43:42
In reply to Hey, remember me, your new internet best friend?, posted by grapebubblegum on June 5, 2001, at 22:39:05
Hi Grapebubblegum, Hi Rick,
Yes you guys I meant .5mg ya know the yellow pills 3 of those per day and they messed with my Mr Happy which the xanax never did. I know I seem sexual obsessed here but I am 42 in pretty good shape and my wife and I have a really cool relationship. I think I can put up with a little OCD so she can have we can have some intimacy. I may try to augment the xanax but my ssri days are over even at the most microscopic doses there were sexual side effects and not many beneficial proactive effects. I found myself isolating again because I felt to crumby to leave the house. I go to my therapist friday and I will see what he thinks about some non-med tools for my OCD. Hey grapes we are twinners and it sounds like the Ricker could sit at our table too. He has got the OCD surfacing a little too but the anxiety is under control. Reminds me of that frog game at Chuck E Cheeses where you bang one frog down with the hammer and another pops up. I think I just don't have enough hammers to beat the OCD and the Panic and still be a sexual being.
Gil
Posted by grapebubblegum on June 6, 2001, at 8:18:30
In reply to To Grapebubblegum and Rick, posted by gilbert on June 6, 2001, at 0:43:42
Yes, Gil, and don't feel that you're sex obssesed; I just came out and admitted that I dumped the SSRIs mainly because I want to have a sex life, dammit, with my fiance whom I love dearly, and there is nothing in the world wrong with that.
That's why I suggested you consider what has worked for me: no SSRIs at all and instead a small dose of klonopin which is a cousin of xanax. Like I said, .125 mg (1/4 of a .5 mg pill) three times per day does not mess with my Mrs. Happy and in fact the sex life is superb; I'll keep it to that and spare the details because this is a public board... and the panic attacks are nowhere to be seen.
So mention that option to your doc and it just might work for you. You were possibly taking more klonopin than you needed in the past. My doc says that there is an amazing range of response to klonopin such that some individuals respond well to what sounds like a tiny dose.
Posted by Miragee on June 7, 2001, at 17:20:19
In reply to Hey, remember me, your new internet best friend?, posted by grapebubblegum on June 5, 2001, at 22:39:05
Although I am not overweight and have a pretty healthy diet, my cholesterol is very high. My doctor put me on an interesting protocol to lower the cholesterol that includes Actos, a drug usually prescribed for diabetics. The *very* first dose cleared my head and lowered my anxiety. It was a wonderful, unexpected side effect.
I always knew that part of what was wrong with my brain was "blood sugar related" but compared to all my other symptoms, that was not one I ever discussed with my physicians. Besides, I did not know there was a medicine out there that could help.
If you have blood sugar problems again, see if Actos is a possibility. My doctor had an explanation of why it had this effect on me, but I cannot remember the very interesting specifics she delineated. (I'll have to take notes next time I see her. < g > )
> I don't mean to beat a dead horse by mentioning klonopin AGAIN, but I also hope you meant .5 mg and not 5 mg. I cannot fathom how anyone could take 5 mg 3 times per day but I understand that some people might have to for seizure control.
>
> Gil, you and I are on sort of twin paths, with a lot of similarities. I also have a low resting heartrate and low blood pressure.
>
> I have successfully, over the last few weeks, tapered down from the 20 mg. of Paxil per day that I was taking down to none, and instead I am taking .125 mg of klonopin three times a day. (The doc prescribed .5 mg 3x per day but told me to take half that if it works.) Sounds like a tiny dose, but it REALLY helps me. At first even that tiny dose knocked me on my a** so that I would start falling asleep if I even sat down at the computer and I was not altogether safe as a driver. But in only a week or so I got completely accustomed to the sedative effects so that I don't even feel them, yet the anxiety is at bay. And I am sorry to knock the SSRIs which help so many people and have helped me in the past, but I have NEVER FELT BETTER. I wonder if people like me and you don't "need" SSRI's, or rather if they have too broad an effect for too narrow a desired effect.
>
> Just like you (are you sure we are not twins separated at birth or something?) I have noticed a return to a little bit of obsessivness, but I think it's well within the range of work-with-able. Actually, I have felt just a tad manic but then again, what I could be interpreting as manic is just a return to my normal personality which is not dulled anymore by the SSRIs. That means I can actually cry if the situation warrants it but I'm by no means any kind of emotional wreck. I can get pretty fired up over ideas and projects or get a little overzealous about explaining these things to people (that's what I meant by quasi-manic, but then who's to say that might be normal for me, and I am a creative person so that might be part of my personality) but I do sleep well every night and I don't feel that my moods are out of control in any way.
>
> I have lost four pounds in the few weeks since I gave up Paxil. I have somehow found the resolve to work on my weight. I really truly believe that the Paxil was ****ing with my blood sugar. All I can say is that I feel clear-headed for the first time in a long time, I sleep well without that half-asleep feeling I had on all SSRIs, and the sex life has been the best. I have to admit that was my main motivating factor to getting off the SSRIs.
>
> My long-winded point is that you might try a micro-dose of klonopin like I am taking. Maybe it would provide adequate symptom relief for you and, especially after getting accustomed to the drug, might not cause sexual problems at all.
>
> Just my 25 cents worth. Good luck!
This is the end of the thread.
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