![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Buzz Aldrin2 on April 16, 2001, at 12:09:11
Let me give some background before I ask my question:
About five weeks ago I experienced two occurrences
of heart palpitations and what I thought was a heart
attack. My heart would feel like it had "twitched",
and then it would pause for a few moments which would
make me feel like it had stopped working. This would
cause me to panic, hyperventilate, and my heart rate to
take off. Both times I went to the emergency room
because I truly thought I was going to die. After
numerous tests by the ER docs, my GP, and a
cardiologist, it was determined that I was experiencing
premature ventricular contractions combined with panic attacks. (I had never had panic attacks before this)
The cardiologist
said it was caused by stress, which seemed to make
sense because all of this coincided with an impossible
deadline approaching at work, and me also having
stopped my regular schedule of cardiovascular exercise,
which is my main form of stress relief. My GP gave me
a bunch of Zoloft and stepped me up to 25 mg/day.
He said I needed to relax and the Zoloft, along with
exercising and avoiding any kind of stimulants, would
help me do that. He also gave me some Ativan in case I
had another panic attack, which I did. I actually had a
few more, but I would talk myself out of them before
Ativan could take effect. Now to the question: the Zoloft
seemed to be affecting my sleep, causing very vivid
dreams where I was actually having trouble remembering
if certain trivial events had actually occurred of if I
had dreamt them. This isn't really a problem, and I
actually find it very interesting. It also seemed to make
me a much lighter sleeper, which I did not like. I would
have trouble getting to sleep at night, intending to go
to bed at 10 but not falling asleep until midnight, and
if something woke me up early, I would have trouble getting
back to sleep, only being able to stay in that weird
half-in/half-out twilight sleep, never back to full blown
sleeping. I informed my doctor of this, and he
suggested trying Prozac and gave me a bunch of that,
telling me to take 10mg/day. I am a little concerned
about Prozac because of all the bad publicity I have
heard. He told me not to worry, and that I was taking
little enough doses where I could stop taking it easily,
but I am still a little concerned. He also said I would
be surprised how many executives at my company are or
have taken an SSRI.
Now here are the questions:
Are Zoloft and Prozac dangerous? Is it typical for a person to just
start having palpitations and panic attacks without any
panic attack history? I used to enjoy work-related stress in a weird
kind of way, is it possible that I burned myself out
on it? Thanks for any info!
Posted by karenR on April 16, 2001, at 14:18:02
In reply to Are Zoloft and Prozac dangerous?, posted by Buzz Aldrin2 on April 16, 2001, at 12:09:11
I can relate to your feelings. I used to really "enjoy" stress and having a chaotic life. I started having anxiety and still, after months of
having anxiety have no idea why it chose to show up now and won't go away. I had the extremely vivid "reality based" dreams you describe. I'm glad you
don't have a problem with them, I did! I found I was having a hard time knowing whether I actually did something
or I dreamed I did it. I was on 50 mgs zoloft for 2years. I actually felt like I "recovered" and went off,
cold turkey - I don't recommend that. I had very bad withdrawal, headaches and electric shock feelings. I think zoloft is quite safe. It's very specific,
there are folks that have taken it for many many years and are ok.
Good luck!karenR
Posted by Joy on April 16, 2001, at 20:56:22
In reply to Are Zoloft and Prozac dangerous?, posted by Buzz Aldrin2 on April 16, 2001, at 12:09:11
Hi. My friend is on Prozac over 10 years. An aquaintence of mine is on Zoloft 4 years. They have no major problems. I am on 40 mg Prozac for several months which works very well. I take generic Xanax at night for sleeping. If you take a 'benzo' as needed for panic attacks in conjuction with the proper theraputic dose of Zoloft or another AD; i.e. 20 mg Prozac or 75 mg to 100+ mg Zoloft; [Zoloft/depends on the individual]you should be fine. I had heart flutters once in a while before I ever took an antidepressant. It's anxiety more than likely; you probably need a higher AD dose and a benzo on an 'as needed' basis. Just my humble opinion.
Joy> Let me give some background before I ask my question:
> About five weeks ago I experienced two occurrences
> of heart palpitations and what I thought was a heart
> attack. My heart would feel like it had "twitched",
> and then it would pause for a few moments which would
> make me feel like it had stopped working. This would
> cause me to panic, hyperventilate, and my heart rate to
> take off. Both times I went to the emergency room
> because I truly thought I was going to die. After
> numerous tests by the ER docs, my GP, and a
> cardiologist, it was determined that I was experiencing
> premature ventricular contractions combined with panic attacks. (I had never had panic attacks before this)
> The cardiologist
> said it was caused by stress, which seemed to make
> sense because all of this coincided with an impossible
> deadline approaching at work, and me also having
> stopped my regular schedule of cardiovascular exercise,
> which is my main form of stress relief. My GP gave me
> a bunch of Zoloft and stepped me up to 25 mg/day.
> He said I needed to relax and the Zoloft, along with
> exercising and avoiding any kind of stimulants, would
> help me do that. He also gave me some Ativan in case I
> had another panic attack, which I did. I actually had a
> few more, but I would talk myself out of them before
> Ativan could take effect. Now to the question: the Zoloft
> seemed to be affecting my sleep, causing very vivid
> dreams where I was actually having trouble remembering
> if certain trivial events had actually occurred of if I
> had dreamt them. This isn't really a problem, and I
> actually find it very interesting. It also seemed to make
> me a much lighter sleeper, which I did not like. I would
> have trouble getting to sleep at night, intending to go
> to bed at 10 but not falling asleep until midnight, and
> if something woke me up early, I would have trouble getting
> back to sleep, only being able to stay in that weird
> half-in/half-out twilight sleep, never back to full blown
> sleeping. I informed my doctor of this, and he
> suggested trying Prozac and gave me a bunch of that,
> telling me to take 10mg/day. I am a little concerned
> about Prozac because of all the bad publicity I have
> heard. He told me not to worry, and that I was taking
> little enough doses where I could stop taking it easily,
> but I am still a little concerned. He also said I would
> be surprised how many executives at my company are or
> have taken an SSRI.
> Now here are the questions:
> Are Zoloft and Prozac dangerous? Is it typical for a person to just
> start having palpitations and panic attacks without any
> panic attack history? I used to enjoy work-related stress in a weird
> kind of way, is it possible that I burned myself out
> on it? Thanks for any info!
Posted by JohnL on April 17, 2001, at 5:39:13
In reply to Are Zoloft and Prozac dangerous?, posted by Buzz Aldrin2 on April 16, 2001, at 12:09:11
The symptoms you describe are side effects that are not uncommon for SSRIs. They are listed in the side effect profiles. All SSRIs can cause sleep problems, and any psychiatric drug can cause anxiety, panic, or palpitations as possible side effects. Dangerous, not often. Bothersome, yes. In my personal trials I have found that the anxiety/panic stuff usually mellows out after a 3 or 4 weeks. If it doesn't, then a switch of meds is probably in order. Also in my own trials, if I have sleep problems early in treatment, they continue longterm. A sleep aid is needed. In my case, Zyprexa is highly effective at counteracting my Prozac insomnia, and at the same time boosts the overall effectiveness of Prozac tremendously. Sometimes two drugs are needed to get a full rich response and to counteract troublesome side effects.
Both Prozac and Zoloft can cause the side effect symptoms you described. If they are overly bothersome to you, you could either stick it out for a few weeks to see if they go away, or switch to something else. If the particular drug was working really well, but still had real bothersome side effects, then it might be better to instead add a second drug to counteract the side effects. I see no sense however in messing around with any drug that isn't showing promising hints of improvement within four weeks. Actually I prefer two weeks as a determination window of whether to continue or not, but 4 weeks is closer to mainstream thinking.
John
Posted by Tony P on April 22, 2001, at 1:12:58
In reply to Re: Are Zoloft and Prozac dangerous?, posted by Joy on April 16, 2001, at 20:56:22
Slightly off-thread, but there is another potentially serious side-effect of Prozac and Zoloft that should be mentioned. They can cause an itchy rash that can turn into permanent skin damage. This side effect is said to be relatively rare, but you don't want it, believe me. My wife has serious disfigurement from over five years ago. If you are on any of the SSRI's and experience a peculiar itchy rash (legs are a common site), RUN, do not walk to your doctor.
> Hi. My friend is on Prozac over 10 years. An aquaintence of mine is on Zoloft 4 years. They have no major problems. I am on 40 mg Prozac for several months which works very well. I take generic Xanax at night for sleeping. If you take a 'benzo' as needed for panic attacks in conjuction with the proper theraputic dose of Zoloft or another AD; i.e. 20 mg Prozac or 75 mg to 100+ mg Zoloft; [Zoloft/depends on the individual]you should be fine. I had heart flutters once in a while before I ever took an antidepressant. It's anxiety more than likely; you probably need a higher AD dose and a benzo on an 'as needed' basis. Just my humble opinion.
> Joy
>
>
>
>
>
> > Let me give some background before I ask my question:
> > About five weeks ago I experienced two occurrences
> > of heart palpitations and what I thought was a heart
> > attack. My heart would feel like it had "twitched",
> > and then it would pause for a few moments which would
> > make me feel like it had stopped working. This would
> > cause me to panic, hyperventilate, and my heart rate to
> > take off. Both times I went to the emergency room
> > because I truly thought I was going to die. After
> > numerous tests by the ER docs, my GP, and a
> > cardiologist, it was determined that I was experiencing
> > premature ventricular contractions combined with panic attacks. (I had never had panic attacks before this)
> > The cardiologist
> > said it was caused by stress, which seemed to make
> > sense because all of this coincided with an impossible
> > deadline approaching at work, and me also having
> > stopped my regular schedule of cardiovascular exercise,
> > which is my main form of stress relief. My GP gave me
> > a bunch of Zoloft and stepped me up to 25 mg/day.
> > He said I needed to relax and the Zoloft, along with
> > exercising and avoiding any kind of stimulants, would
> > help me do that. He also gave me some Ativan in case I
> > had another panic attack, which I did. I actually had a
> > few more, but I would talk myself out of them before
> > Ativan could take effect. Now to the question: the Zoloft
> > seemed to be affecting my sleep, causing very vivid
> > dreams where I was actually having trouble remembering
> > if certain trivial events had actually occurred of if I
> > had dreamt them. This isn't really a problem, and I
> > actually find it very interesting. It also seemed to make
> > me a much lighter sleeper, which I did not like. I would
> > have trouble getting to sleep at night, intending to go
> > to bed at 10 but not falling asleep until midnight, and
> > if something woke me up early, I would have trouble getting
> > back to sleep, only being able to stay in that weird
> > half-in/half-out twilight sleep, never back to full blown
> > sleeping. I informed my doctor of this, and he
> > suggested trying Prozac and gave me a bunch of that,
> > telling me to take 10mg/day. I am a little concerned
> > about Prozac because of all the bad publicity I have
> > heard. He told me not to worry, and that I was taking
> > little enough doses where I could stop taking it easily,
> > but I am still a little concerned. He also said I would
> > be surprised how many executives at my company are or
> > have taken an SSRI.
> > Now here are the questions:
> > Are Zoloft and Prozac dangerous? Is it typical for a person to just
> > start having palpitations and panic attacks without any
> > panic attack history? I used to enjoy work-related stress in a weird
> > kind of way, is it possible that I burned myself out
> > on it? Thanks for any info!
Posted by Nathan on June 13, 2001, at 10:43:35
In reply to Re: Are Zoloft and Prozac dangerous?, posted by JohnL on April 17, 2001, at 5:39:13
Hi John,
What is Zyprexa? Isn't it for schizophrenia? Is it a ssri? What neurotransmitters does it affect? Your post about combining Prozac and Zyprexa seems promising. My problem with Prozac is the insomnia and anxiety. What is the recommended dose of Zyprexa and how much do you take (and when) to augment Prozac? How did you find out about this combo? How do you think Zyprexa compares to Remeron for Prozac augmentation?
Thanks for your insight.
Nathan
> The symptoms you describe are side effects that are not uncommon for SSRIs. They are listed in the side effect profiles. All SSRIs can cause sleep problems, and any psychiatric drug can cause anxiety, panic, or palpitations as possible side effects. Dangerous, not often. Bothersome, yes. In my personal trials I have found that the anxiety/panic stuff usually mellows out after a 3 or 4 weeks. If it doesn't, then a switch of meds is probably in order. Also in my own trials, if I have sleep problems early in treatment, they continue longterm. A sleep aid is needed. In my case, Zyprexa is highly effective at counteracting my Prozac insomnia, and at the same time boosts the overall effectiveness of Prozac tremendously. Sometimes two drugs are needed to get a full rich response and to counteract troublesome side effects.
>
> Both Prozac and Zoloft can cause the side effect symptoms you described. If they are overly bothersome to you, you could either stick it out for a few weeks to see if they go away, or switch to something else. If the particular drug was working really well, but still had real bothersome side effects, then it might be better to instead add a second drug to counteract the side effects. I see no sense however in messing around with any drug that isn't showing promising hints of improvement within four weeks. Actually I prefer two weeks as a determination window of whether to continue or not, but 4 weeks is closer to mainstream thinking.
> John
Posted by JohnL on June 16, 2001, at 4:47:05
In reply to Re: Are Zoloft and Prozac dangerous? » JohnL, posted by Nathan on June 13, 2001, at 10:43:35
Hi Nathan,
Zyprexa is an antipsychotic for schizophrenia. However, it is also FDA approved for treating bipolar, and there is plenty of anecdotal and clinical evidence supporting its use in treating depression. It increases serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine activity. The increase is especially profound when combined with Prozac, for some unknown synergistic reason. I found out about the combo from two places: 1)a friend who was taking it convinced me how good it is; 2)I saw clinical studies with the combination and the results were quite promising.I too experience anxiety and insomnia with Prozac. Zyprexa effectively eliminates the insomnia right problem right away. The anxiety actually increased for the first week and a half or so. But then it just faded completely away and now there is no anxiety left at all. I think another good reason these two drugs go well together is because they have counteracting side effects.
Zyprexa has also been good to my sex life, which was a nice surprise. My dose is 20mg Prozac in the morning, 5mg Zyprexa after dinner. I started at 2.5mg. There is some daytime sedation during the first week, but it completely vanished after that.
I was on Remeron for almost two years, with Prozac. In every way I can think of Zyprexa is far superior to Remeron. My sleep on Remeron was not as good, sex wasn't as good, mood wasn't as good, and I wish I had tried Zyprexa earlier.
> Hi John,
>
> What is Zyprexa? Isn't it for schizophrenia? Is it a ssri? What neurotransmitters does it affect? Your post about combining Prozac and Zyprexa seems promising. My problem with Prozac is the insomnia and anxiety. What is the recommended dose of Zyprexa and how much do you take (and when) to augment Prozac? How did you find out about this combo? How do you think Zyprexa compares to Remeron for Prozac augmentation?
>
> Thanks for your insight.
>
> Nathan
>
> > The symptoms you describe are side effects that are not uncommon for SSRIs. They are listed in the side effect profiles. All SSRIs can cause sleep problems, and any psychiatric drug can cause anxiety, panic, or palpitations as possible side effects. Dangerous, not often. Bothersome, yes. In my personal trials I have found that the anxiety/panic stuff usually mellows out after a 3 or 4 weeks. If it doesn't, then a switch of meds is probably in order. Also in my own trials, if I have sleep problems early in treatment, they continue longterm. A sleep aid is needed. In my case, Zyprexa is highly effective at counteracting my Prozac insomnia, and at the same time boosts the overall effectiveness of Prozac tremendously. Sometimes two drugs are needed to get a full rich response and to counteract troublesome side effects.
> >
> > Both Prozac and Zoloft can cause the side effect symptoms you described. If they are overly bothersome to you, you could either stick it out for a few weeks to see if they go away, or switch to something else. If the particular drug was working really well, but still had real bothersome side effects, then it might be better to instead add a second drug to counteract the side effects. I see no sense however in messing around with any drug that isn't showing promising hints of improvement within four weeks. Actually I prefer two weeks as a determination window of whether to continue or not, but 4 weeks is closer to mainstream thinking.
> > John
Posted by CraigF on June 16, 2001, at 14:52:42
In reply to Re: Are Zoloft and Prozac dangerous?, posted by JohnL on June 16, 2001, at 4:47:05
John:
Does this mean you have stopped taking Amisulpride? Can I ask why (I just began adding it to my Celexa so I can lower my Celexa dose)?
So, are you saying that Zyprexa is effective in counteracting SSRI sexual side effects, or is this just the case for Prozac. I wouldn't really want to be any more sedated -- that is why I didn't give Seroquel much of a chance.
What about weight gain on Zyprexa?
Posted by Nathan on June 16, 2001, at 18:47:45
In reply to Re: Are Zoloft and Prozac dangerous?, posted by JohnL on June 16, 2001, at 4:47:05
Hi John,
Thanks for the very informative post about Zyprexa. Are most doctors familiar with Zyprexa? My primary care physician has never heard of it. Is it expensive? Do you receive yours through overseas mail order or by normal channels?
Most people say Remeron is great for sleep. How did Remeron affect your sleep? What was your experience with Remeron like? Will Zyprexa work for bipolar and unipolar depression? Thanks again for your insight.
Nathan
> Hi Nathan,
> Zyprexa is an antipsychotic for schizophrenia. However, it is also FDA approved for treating bipolar, and there is plenty of anecdotal and clinical evidence supporting its use in treating depression. It increases serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine activity. The increase is especially profound when combined with Prozac, for some unknown synergistic reason. I found out about the combo from two places: 1)a friend who was taking it convinced me how good it is; 2)I saw clinical studies with the combination and the results were quite promising.
>
> I too experience anxiety and insomnia with Prozac. Zyprexa effectively eliminates the insomnia right problem right away. The anxiety actually increased for the first week and a half or so. But then it just faded completely away and now there is no anxiety left at all. I think another good reason these two drugs go well together is because they have counteracting side effects.
>
> Zyprexa has also been good to my sex life, which was a nice surprise. My dose is 20mg Prozac in the morning, 5mg Zyprexa after dinner. I started at 2.5mg. There is some daytime sedation during the first week, but it completely vanished after that.
>
> I was on Remeron for almost two years, with Prozac. In every way I can think of Zyprexa is far superior to Remeron. My sleep on Remeron was not as good, sex wasn't as good, mood wasn't as good, and I wish I had tried Zyprexa earlier.
>
> > Hi John,
> >
> > What is Zyprexa? Isn't it for schizophrenia? Is it a ssri? What neurotransmitters does it affect? Your post about combining Prozac and Zyprexa seems promising. My problem with Prozac is the insomnia and anxiety. What is the recommended dose of Zyprexa and how much do you take (and when) to augment Prozac? How did you find out about this combo? How do you think Zyprexa compares to Remeron for Prozac augmentation?
> >
> > Thanks for your insight.
> >
> > Nathan
> >
> > > The symptoms you describe are side effects that are not uncommon for SSRIs. They are listed in the side effect profiles. All SSRIs can cause sleep problems, and any psychiatric drug can cause anxiety, panic, or palpitations as possible side effects. Dangerous, not often. Bothersome, yes. In my personal trials I have found that the anxiety/panic stuff usually mellows out after a 3 or 4 weeks. If it doesn't, then a switch of meds is probably in order. Also in my own trials, if I have sleep problems early in treatment, they continue longterm. A sleep aid is needed. In my case, Zyprexa is highly effective at counteracting my Prozac insomnia, and at the same time boosts the overall effectiveness of Prozac tremendously. Sometimes two drugs are needed to get a full rich response and to counteract troublesome side effects.
> > >
> > > Both Prozac and Zoloft can cause the side effect symptoms you described. If they are overly bothersome to you, you could either stick it out for a few weeks to see if they go away, or switch to something else. If the particular drug was working really well, but still had real bothersome side effects, then it might be better to instead add a second drug to counteract the side effects. I see no sense however in messing around with any drug that isn't showing promising hints of improvement within four weeks. Actually I prefer two weeks as a determination window of whether to continue or not, but 4 weeks is closer to mainstream thinking.
> > > John
Posted by JohnL on June 17, 2001, at 3:58:31
In reply to Re: Are Zoloft and Prozac dangerous? » JohnL, posted by Nathan on June 16, 2001, at 18:47:45
Hi Nathan,
Most pdocs are very familiar with Zyprexa, but most general practictioners probably are not. My own GP has just started trying Zyprexa with some patients, after I supplied him with research and info. I get mine from a local pharmacy, but it could be ordered from overseas pretty easily.Remeron in my experience was fantastic for initiating sleep, because it can knock you out in about an hour. For me though, the actual sleep quality was not very good. Very dream-filled and just didn't feel like good sleep. Zyprexa doesn't knock me out as fast as Remeron did, but the quality of sleep is much better. I was on Remeron a long time, and I must say it really wasn't very good for mood improvement. It did help, but not enough. And it made my ears ring. Zyprexa has quieted my ear ringing way down.
Zyprexa has been shown to work with bipolar, unipolar, treatment resistent depression, and schizophrenia. In my own experience I think it works best when combined with an antidepressant, with Prozac being the best.
John> Hi John,
>
> Thanks for the very informative post about Zyprexa. Are most doctors familiar with Zyprexa? My primary care physician has never heard of it. Is it expensive? Do you receive yours through overseas mail order or by normal channels?
>
> Most people say Remeron is great for sleep. How did Remeron affect your sleep? What was your experience with Remeron like? Will Zyprexa work for bipolar and unipolar depression? Thanks again for your insight.
>
> Nathan
>
> > Hi Nathan,
> > Zyprexa is an antipsychotic for schizophrenia. However, it is also FDA approved for treating bipolar, and there is plenty of anecdotal and clinical evidence supporting its use in treating depression. It increases serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine activity. The increase is especially profound when combined with Prozac, for some unknown synergistic reason. I found out about the combo from two places: 1)a friend who was taking it convinced me how good it is; 2)I saw clinical studies with the combination and the results were quite promising.
> >
> > I too experience anxiety and insomnia with Prozac. Zyprexa effectively eliminates the insomnia right problem right away. The anxiety actually increased for the first week and a half or so. But then it just faded completely away and now there is no anxiety left at all. I think another good reason these two drugs go well together is because they have counteracting side effects.
> >
> > Zyprexa has also been good to my sex life, which was a nice surprise. My dose is 20mg Prozac in the morning, 5mg Zyprexa after dinner. I started at 2.5mg. There is some daytime sedation during the first week, but it completely vanished after that.
> >
> > I was on Remeron for almost two years, with Prozac. In every way I can think of Zyprexa is far superior to Remeron. My sleep on Remeron was not as good, sex wasn't as good, mood wasn't as good, and I wish I had tried Zyprexa earlier.
> >
> > > Hi John,
> > >
> > > What is Zyprexa? Isn't it for schizophrenia? Is it a ssri? What neurotransmitters does it affect? Your post about combining Prozac and Zyprexa seems promising. My problem with Prozac is the insomnia and anxiety. What is the recommended dose of Zyprexa and how much do you take (and when) to augment Prozac? How did you find out about this combo? How do you think Zyprexa compares to Remeron for Prozac augmentation?
> > >
> > > Thanks for your insight.
> > >
> > > Nathan
> > >
> > > > The symptoms you describe are side effects that are not uncommon for SSRIs. They are listed in the side effect profiles. All SSRIs can cause sleep problems, and any psychiatric drug can cause anxiety, panic, or palpitations as possible side effects. Dangerous, not often. Bothersome, yes. In my personal trials I have found that the anxiety/panic stuff usually mellows out after a 3 or 4 weeks. If it doesn't, then a switch of meds is probably in order. Also in my own trials, if I have sleep problems early in treatment, they continue longterm. A sleep aid is needed. In my case, Zyprexa is highly effective at counteracting my Prozac insomnia, and at the same time boosts the overall effectiveness of Prozac tremendously. Sometimes two drugs are needed to get a full rich response and to counteract troublesome side effects.
> > > >
> > > > Both Prozac and Zoloft can cause the side effect symptoms you described. If they are overly bothersome to you, you could either stick it out for a few weeks to see if they go away, or switch to something else. If the particular drug was working really well, but still had real bothersome side effects, then it might be better to instead add a second drug to counteract the side effects. I see no sense however in messing around with any drug that isn't showing promising hints of improvement within four weeks. Actually I prefer two weeks as a determination window of whether to continue or not, but 4 weeks is closer to mainstream thinking.
> > > > John
Posted by Nathan on June 17, 2001, at 17:09:44
In reply to Re: Are Zoloft and Prozac dangerous? Nathan, posted by JohnL on June 17, 2001, at 3:58:31
Hi John,
Thanks again for the info. Could you point me to some research on the Zyprexa/Prozac combo that I could give to my GP.
Thanks,
Nathan> Hi Nathan,
> Most pdocs are very familiar with Zyprexa, but most general practictioners probably are not. My own GP has just started trying Zyprexa with some patients, after I supplied him with research and info. I get mine from a local pharmacy, but it could be ordered from overseas pretty easily.
>
> Remeron in my experience was fantastic for initiating sleep, because it can knock you out in about an hour. For me though, the actual sleep quality was not very good. Very dream-filled and just didn't feel like good sleep. Zyprexa doesn't knock me out as fast as Remeron did, but the quality of sleep is much better. I was on Remeron a long time, and I must say it really wasn't very good for mood improvement. It did help, but not enough. And it made my ears ring. Zyprexa has quieted my ear ringing way down.
>
> Zyprexa has been shown to work with bipolar, unipolar, treatment resistent depression, and schizophrenia. In my own experience I think it works best when combined with an antidepressant, with Prozac being the best.
> John
>
> > Hi John,
> >
> > Thanks for the very informative post about Zyprexa. Are most doctors familiar with Zyprexa? My primary care physician has never heard of it. Is it expensive? Do you receive yours through overseas mail order or by normal channels?
> >
> > Most people say Remeron is great for sleep. How did Remeron affect your sleep? What was your experience with Remeron like? Will Zyprexa work for bipolar and unipolar depression? Thanks again for your insight.
> >
> > Nathan
> >
> > > Hi Nathan,
> > > Zyprexa is an antipsychotic for schizophrenia. However, it is also FDA approved for treating bipolar, and there is plenty of anecdotal and clinical evidence supporting its use in treating depression. It increases serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine activity. The increase is especially profound when combined with Prozac, for some unknown synergistic reason. I found out about the combo from two places: 1)a friend who was taking it convinced me how good it is; 2)I saw clinical studies with the combination and the results were quite promising.
> > >
> > > I too experience anxiety and insomnia with Prozac. Zyprexa effectively eliminates the insomnia right problem right away. The anxiety actually increased for the first week and a half or so. But then it just faded completely away and now there is no anxiety left at all. I think another good reason these two drugs go well together is because they have counteracting side effects.
> > >
> > > Zyprexa has also been good to my sex life, which was a nice surprise. My dose is 20mg Prozac in the morning, 5mg Zyprexa after dinner. I started at 2.5mg. There is some daytime sedation during the first week, but it completely vanished after that.
> > >
> > > I was on Remeron for almost two years, with Prozac. In every way I can think of Zyprexa is far superior to Remeron. My sleep on Remeron was not as good, sex wasn't as good, mood wasn't as good, and I wish I had tried Zyprexa earlier.
> > >
> > > > Hi John,
> > > >
> > > > What is Zyprexa? Isn't it for schizophrenia? Is it a ssri? What neurotransmitters does it affect? Your post about combining Prozac and Zyprexa seems promising. My problem with Prozac is the insomnia and anxiety. What is the recommended dose of Zyprexa and how much do you take (and when) to augment Prozac? How did you find out about this combo? How do you think Zyprexa compares to Remeron for Prozac augmentation?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for your insight.
> > > >
> > > > Nathan
> > > >
> > > > > The symptoms you describe are side effects that are not uncommon for SSRIs. They are listed in the side effect profiles. All SSRIs can cause sleep problems, and any psychiatric drug can cause anxiety, panic, or palpitations as possible side effects. Dangerous, not often. Bothersome, yes. In my personal trials I have found that the anxiety/panic stuff usually mellows out after a 3 or 4 weeks. If it doesn't, then a switch of meds is probably in order. Also in my own trials, if I have sleep problems early in treatment, they continue longterm. A sleep aid is needed. In my case, Zyprexa is highly effective at counteracting my Prozac insomnia, and at the same time boosts the overall effectiveness of Prozac tremendously. Sometimes two drugs are needed to get a full rich response and to counteract troublesome side effects.
> > > > >
> > > > > Both Prozac and Zoloft can cause the side effect symptoms you described. If they are overly bothersome to you, you could either stick it out for a few weeks to see if they go away, or switch to something else. If the particular drug was working really well, but still had real bothersome side effects, then it might be better to instead add a second drug to counteract the side effects. I see no sense however in messing around with any drug that isn't showing promising hints of improvement within four weeks. Actually I prefer two weeks as a determination window of whether to continue or not, but 4 weeks is closer to mainstream thinking.
> > > > > John
This is the end of the thread.
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