![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jimmygold70 on February 23, 2001, at 8:29:24
I have a phenomenon which is not very clearly defined in DSM definition (in my opinion, at least). Many times, when I get small cues that something is going to go wrong, I start thinking and thinking about it, building hills of theories from small cues. My therapist calls it “negative thinking loops”. I can’t find a good definition in the DSM-IV. It is not paranoid, since when I am shown the real facts I do resign my theories. However, I do believe that drugs for paranoid ideation will help me, though.
I also suffer from social phobia. I have tried SSRIs,MAOI,benzodiazepins, all other possible Ads with little success in any of my problems. Benzos do help my anxiety, but this “negative thinking” persists.
Sulpiride did seem to help me with this problem, but my liver functions got so bad that I can’t afford to use it. Also, I fear from Tardive Diskinesia.
Anybody has any idea about a good, close diagnosis ? and what about a drug treatment ? Antipsychotics ? Anything else ?
Thanks,
Jimmy
Posted by SLS on February 23, 2001, at 8:46:37
In reply to Fearful Anticipation ? Sulpiride ?, posted by jimmygold70 on February 23, 2001, at 8:29:24
Hi.
Just a quickie.
Zyprexa seems worth looking into.
It is an atypical neuroleptic that has very little potential to cause EPS and TD. This drug should help with the ruminations and probably negative thinking as well.
Sorry that I couldn't provide any more input, except to say that you should perhaps continue with your work in therapy. These illnesses can be driven by both the psychological and the biological. Fix both, and your home-free!
Good luck.
- Scott
> I have a phenomenon which is not very clearly defined in DSM definition (in my opinion, at least). Many times, when I get small cues that something is going to go wrong, I start thinking and thinking about it, building hills of theories from small cues. My therapist calls it “negative thinking loops”. I can’t find a good definition in the DSM-IV. It is not paranoid, since when I am shown the real facts I do resign my theories. However, I do believe that drugs for paranoid ideation will help me, though.
>
> I also suffer from social phobia. I have tried SSRIs,MAOI,benzodiazepins, all other possible Ads with little success in any of my problems. Benzos do help my anxiety, but this “negative thinking” persists.
>
> Sulpiride did seem to help me with this problem, but my liver functions got so bad that I can’t afford to use it. Also, I fear from Tardive Diskinesia.
>
> Anybody has any idea about a good, close diagnosis ? and what about a drug treatment ? Antipsychotics ? Anything else ?
>
> Thanks,
> Jimmy
Posted by AndrewB on February 23, 2001, at 9:05:23
In reply to Re: Fearful Anticipation ? Sulpiride ?, posted by SLS on February 23, 2001, at 8:46:37
Amisulpride is the closest relative to sulpiride. Positive results with sulpiride usually translate to positive results with amisulpride. It has no liver toxicity or liver interactions. It is eliminated via the kidneys.
AndrewB
Posted by SLS on February 23, 2001, at 12:50:42
In reply to Re: Fearful Anticipation ? Sulpiride ?, posted by AndrewB on February 23, 2001, at 9:05:23
> Amisulpride is the closest relative to sulpiride. Positive results with sulpiride usually translate to positive results with amisulpride. It has no liver toxicity or liver interactions. It is eliminated via the kidneys.
>
> AndrewB
Thanks, Andrew
- Scott
Posted by jimmygold70 on February 23, 2001, at 13:21:16
In reply to Re: Fearful Anticipation ? Sulpiride ?, posted by SLS on February 23, 2001, at 8:46:37
Thanks Scott !
However, isn't Zyprexa very sedating (even in low doses) ? What does it do about anxiety ? Improves it ? And depresive symptoms ?
Jimmy
> Hi.
>
> Just a quickie.
>
> Zyprexa seems worth looking into.
Posted by jimmygold70 on February 23, 2001, at 13:24:31
In reply to Re: Fearful Anticipation ? Sulpiride ?, posted by SLS on February 23, 2001, at 12:50:42
Thanks Andrew,
Unfortunately, we do not have Amisulpride here in Israel. I am not 100% certain yet that sulpiride caused my AST/ALT/PTT elevations. I took mianserin a short while before, so you never know. I'll have to monitor monotherapy with sulpiride more closely with twice weekly LFT.
Hwoever, do you know what atypical drug, with less chances for TD, will be as beneficial for my "negative thinking loops" as sulpiride (or even more!)
Thanks,
Jimmy> > Amisulpride is the closest relative to sulpiride. Positive results with sulpiride usually translate to positive results with amisulpride. It has no liver toxicity or liver interactions. It is eliminated via the kidneys.
> >
> > AndrewB
>
>
> Thanks, Andrew
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by SLS on February 23, 2001, at 14:53:10
In reply to Re: Fearful Anticipation ? Sulpiride ?, posted by jimmygold70 on February 23, 2001, at 13:21:16
> However, isn't Zyprexa very sedating (even in low doses) ? What does it do about anxiety ? Improves it ? And depresive symptoms ?
Hi Jimmy.I have been taking Zyprexa for about a week. I find that I have periods during the day in which I get very sleepy. However, I do not feel sedated or tranquilized. Supposedly, this episodic sleepiness goes away after a week or two. I am taking it for depression, and I have found it to be partially effective when combined with the antidepressants that I am currently taking. It really should help with negative and ruminating thinking. Many people feel as if they begin to think more clearly with Zyprexa.
I am not worried about EPS or tardive dyskinisia. The incidence of such things is remarkably low with Zyprexa. I don't suffer from extreme anxiety, so I can't attest to its usefullness for that. I am currently taking 5.0mg.
- Scott
Posted by KarenB on February 24, 2001, at 11:14:34
In reply to Re: Fearful Anticipation ? Sulpiride ?, posted by SLS on February 23, 2001, at 14:53:10
>
> > However, isn't Zyprexa very sedating (even in low doses) ? What does it do about anxiety ? Improves it ? And depresive symptoms ?Jimmy,
Zyprexa would be a good choice but you almost assuredly will gain weight on it. It is very helpful with "ruminating thoughts," which I suffer from as well. Taken at bedtime or early evening, the sedation is not a factor during the day.
Ziprasidone is to be released in the US in the next two weeks but you may already have it available there, maybe under the name "Zeldox." Here, it will be called "Geodon." Sounds like a planet on Star Trek, to me. Reportedly, it has all the benefits of Zyprexa without the side effects, like weight gain. My doc says she'll call me as soon as the samples are delivered to her. I have been waiting with great anticipation for it's release - the weight gain from Zyprexa is not a side effect that I find tolerable.
Amisulpride, as Andrew suggests, holds very little danger of TD, when used in lower doses, like 50mg, 3x a day or so. This type of dose seems to be effective for social anxiety and ruminating thoughts. Being bipolar myself, it was a little too stimulating for me, causing my cycling to start up. Sulpiride, on the other hand, worked well for me when I was overseas, used in conjunction with a psychostimulant. Go figure.
Best to you. I hope you find what works.
Karen
Posted by swiss on February 24, 2001, at 13:01:55
In reply to Re: Fearful Anticipation ? Sulpiride ?, posted by jimmygold70 on February 23, 2001, at 13:24:31
> Thanks Andrew,
>
> Unfortunately, we do not have Amisulpride here in Israel.It dont think it matters where you live, I believe you can order amisulpride from anywhere in the world over the internet with a credit card and it will come in the mail, of course you will have to pay for it yourself, the insurance wont cover it, this may be a problem, if not I am sure someone would tell you where to order from if you asked or did a little searching in the archives of this website.
Posted by Dubya on February 25, 2001, at 22:20:06
In reply to Fearful Anticipation ? Sulpiride ?, posted by jimmygold70 on February 23, 2001, at 8:29:24
Perhaps, you have a form of ANXIETY or OCD? I have that same feeling you do about things go wrong too. Negative loop would be intentional avoidance of doing a task. I mean, let's say you tell me to drive a bicycle in downtown New York City (Manhattan), I'd say, "I might crash or I might fall off or, that I might not be able to ride the bike with out 'running out of steam'."
Posted by kate9999 on February 26, 2001, at 3:51:53
In reply to Fearful Anticipation ? Sulpiride ?, posted by jimmygold70 on February 23, 2001, at 8:29:24
I hate to bring up the obvious, but no one else has - have you tried cognitive behavioral therapy? That's exactly the type of thing CBT is supposed to address.
If you haven't, I hope you don't mind me mentioning a book my therapist recommended to me -Feeling Good by (David?) Burns. It's a really good intro to CBT and is designed for you to work on on your own, with or without a therapist.
Also, what you're describing is a symptom which could be part of social phobia, depression, etc. I wouldn't assume it's a separate disorder just because an antipsychotic had an effect on it. Sulpiride has antidepressant effects and various cognitive side effects which could have been helping you.
> I have a phenomenon which is not very clearly defined in DSM definition (in my opinion, at least). Many times, when I get small cues that something is going to go wrong, I start thinking and thinking about it, building hills of theories from small cues. My therapist calls it “negative thinking loops”. I can’t find a good definition in the DSM-IV. It is not paranoid, since when I am shown the real facts I do resign my theories. However, I do believe that drugs for paranoid ideation will help me, though.
>
> I also suffer from social phobia. I have tried SSRIs,MAOI,benzodiazepins, all other possible Ads with little success in any of my problems. Benzos do help my anxiety, but this “negative thinking” persists.
>
> Sulpiride did seem to help me with this problem, but my liver functions got so bad that I can’t afford to use it. Also, I fear from Tardive Diskinesia.
>
> Anybody has any idea about a good, close diagnosis ? and what about a drug treatment ? Antipsychotics ? Anything else ?
>
> Thanks,
> Jimmy
Posted by jimmygold70 on February 26, 2001, at 16:01:10
In reply to Perhaps you have Anxiety or OCD? I think the same, posted by Dubya on February 25, 2001, at 22:20:06
I mean in negative loops, that I start thinking of something mildly upsetting, and it can't leave my mind. As I keep thinking of it, it gets worse until things start looking really bad.
I can't say if sulpiride prevented it, since I didn't have those loops on sulpiride, but I took it for a short time, so it might just be a metter of chance...
As of sulpiride, my Pdoc vows that on the long run it will cause me irriversible tremor which is going to be very hard to treat. He says only clozapine will not do that, but for that sake he will have to diagnose me as a schizophrenic (-:
Jimmy
> Perhaps, you have a form of ANXIETY or OCD? I have that same feeling you do about things go wrong too. Negative loop would be intentional avoidance of doing a task. I mean, let's say you tell me to drive a bicycle in downtown New York City (Manhattan), I'd say, "I might crash or I might fall off or, that I might not be able to ride the bike with out 'running out of steam'."
Posted by AndrewB on February 28, 2001, at 11:53:47
In reply to No, that's something quite different, posted by jimmygold70 on February 26, 2001, at 16:01:10
Jimmy,
I want to hopefully clarify some things here. I have been taking amisulpride for over a year and a half and for longer than that been keeping track of the effects of low dose amisulpride, and sulpiride, which is a close relative of amisulpride.
First of all, to be blunt, tell your doctor to go back again to his books, because he is dead wrong on the likelihood of sulpiride causing tremor in low doses. In low doses this would be an EXTREMELY rare side effect I believe. What some doctors either forget or don't realize is that sulpiride (and amisulpride) have roughly opposite physiological actions on certain brain receptors at low doses than they do at high doses. In other words, instead of blocking certain receptors, as sulpirde does, at high doses, it actually (indirectly) stimulates these same receptors. This is a crucial distinction because it is the blocking of certain of those receptors that is thought to lead to the tremor. Therefore, tremor is NOT an expected side effect of low dose sulpiride. I certainly have never experienced any tremor, for as long as I've been taking low dose amisulpride. Nor have I heard of any first hand accounts of it happening with others with either med. One final note on this. I once tried Mirapex which directly stimulates the receptors which I refereed to above as being indirectly stimulated by low dose sulpiride. Interestingly, the Mirapex caused a large improvement in fine motor coordination. For example, in games of basketball I started making shots with great accuracy from long range. I interpret this as possible evidence that while if you block these certain receptors, as you do with high dose sulpiride, you tend to impair fine motor coordination, if, instead, you stimulate these receptors you have the potential to actually improve fine motor coordination. So if your doctor asks why you want to keep taking low dose sulpiride, tell him you want to make sure your hands keep steady!
On to another topic. What you describe as negative thinking loops and fearful anticipation (dread) is what can be roughly termed as a subtype of anxiety. It tends to be accompanied by low self esteem, gloomy outlook and periods of social withdrawal. It is exactly the type of anxiety that I have when I am not medicated. Sulpiride and amisulpride should be noted for being especially effective, perhaps unrivaled by any other meds, for treating this type of anxiety. I think that you will find if you resume sulpiride that, indeed, the negative thinking loops and dread will again subside, as they did with your first short trial with sulpiride.
One suggestion for you Jimmy. I like to suggest to people who respond to sulpiride to also to trial amisulpride to see which one of these meds gives them the better effect. I don’t know about the laws concerning the importation of medicines for personal use into Israel. But I would like you to know that amisulpride can be ordered without a prescription, over the internet. In particular xxx is noted for its quick and reliable service and reasonable prices.
Another point, remember that while we are here on earth, that we, not our doctors, are the ultimate arbitrators of our health decisions. I suggest that people on the road to self recovery seek the best medical specialists out there with particular expertise concerning one’s own malady. Beyond that, since the road to regaining one’s mental health is in part a trial and error process involving the trials of various meds, it is important that you have a doctor that is willing to allow trials with a variety of drugs that hold promise of efficacy and safety, even if they are not the medicines used as first options to treat depression and anxiety. Too many doctors, when faced with treatment-resistant deppresives, are unwilling to prescribe, or ignorant of, drugs that are not among the standard protocol, highly marketed, medicines for treating depression.
As I share some of your symptomology, feel free to ask me any questions, if the need arises. And.... best wishes for your recovery!
AndrewB
Posted by KarenB on February 28, 2001, at 12:28:28
In reply to Re: Jimmy- Sulpiride Tremor, posted by AndrewB on February 28, 2001, at 11:53:47
Jimmy,
I was on Sulpiride for well over a year with no side effects whatever, except complete cessation of my menstrual periods. Seeing as I get exceedingly ugly PMS, this was not at all a bad thing.
I was on 50mg, 3x a day.
Karen
Karen
Posted by jimmygold70 on February 28, 2001, at 14:45:02
In reply to Re: Jimmy- Sulpiride Tremor, posted by AndrewB on February 28, 2001, at 11:53:47
Thank you andrew !
However, did you feel those improvement with find motor coordination while on sulpiride / amisulpiride ?
How is low dose sulpiride supposed to treat me negative thinking symptoms ? I mean, my theory whas that those things are being caused by too much dopamine somewhere in the brain, so I need a D2 postsynaptic antagonist, not a presynaptic one...Jimmy
improvement in fine motor coordination. For example, in games of basketball I started making shots with great accuracy from long range. I interpret this as possible evidence that while if you block these certain receptors, as you do with high dose sulpiride, you tend to impair fine motor coordination, if, instead, you stimulate these receptors you have the potential to actually improve fine motor coordination. So if your doctor asks why you want to keep taking low dose sulpiride, tell him you want to make sure your hands keep steady!
Posted by AndrewB on March 1, 2001, at 10:40:14
In reply to Re: Jimmy- Sulpiride Tremor » AndrewB, posted by jimmygold70 on February 28, 2001, at 14:45:02
Jimmy, no, low dose amisulpride or sulpiride will not improve (nor harm) your fine motor coordination.
Too much dopamine causing anxiety??? Yes certain meds that increase dopamine at certain sites cause anxiety. But it is also clear that certain types of anxiety (at least) are due to hypofunction at certain dopamine receptor sites in the brain. Sulpiride and amisulpride deal with the hypofunction at those specific receptor sites (seemingly the D2/D3 limbic system receptors). The evidence is very compelling that 1) anxiety can be caused by hypofunction at these sites 2) amisulpride and sulpiride can be effective at dealing with this anxiety and 3) this type of anxiety of includes negative thinking loops (loosely termed 'ruminations').
If and when you decide to resume sulpiride (or amisulpride), please let us know how it goes.
AndrewB
Posted by J on March 1, 2001, at 18:40:44
In reply to Re: Jimmy- Sulpiride Tremor, posted by AndrewB on February 28, 2001, at 11:53:47
Hi guys, this is my first post to this forum. I've been following some of the threads here for a while now, and it's really good to see people trying to help each other with their meds. I suffer from Avoidant Personality Disoder(APD). APD, as those of you who have it probably know, is an extremely difficult disorder to treat.
AndrewB, I'd like to know the Sulpiride dosage you take. I've read a lot of good material about the dopaminergic effects of low doses of Sulpiride, and the success you've had treating your symptoms makes we want to try it. Right now my doctor recommends tianeptine (Stablon) and busipirone (Buspar) to treat my APD, but these drugs are so expensive I just can't afford to buy them.
I know there is a "window" with sulpiride for the dopaminergic effects; a dosage level outside the window will not work. So I'd really like to hit that window precisely as I can, and keep my fingers crossed. Thanks.
J
Posted by jimmygold70 on March 1, 2001, at 19:42:32
In reply to Sulpiride dosage » AndrewB, posted by J on March 1, 2001, at 18:40:44
Well if those drugs are too expensive for you, you can contact the drug company which manufacture them. They have funds to distribute those drugs for poor people. I am sure that in case your socioeconomic status justifies it, they will dispense it for you. The drug costs them nothing to manufacture, so in case you're not going to buy it anyway, which should they bother giving it away for free ?
Also, as for buspirone, maybe mianserin would help you, you can order it by mail and it might have a positive effect for you. Also, don't hesitate to try Nardil, which is quite cheap too.
Jimmy
Jimmy
> Hi guys, this is my first post to this forum. I've been following some of the threads here for a while now, and it's really good to see people trying to help each other with their meds. I suffer from Avoidant Personality Disoder(APD). APD, as those of you who have it probably know, is an extremely difficult disorder to treat.
>
> AndrewB, I'd like to know the Sulpiride dosage you take. I've read a lot of good material about the dopaminergic effects of low doses of Sulpiride, and the success you've had treating your symptoms makes we want to try it. Right now my doctor recommends tianeptine (Stablon) and busipirone (Buspar) to treat my APD, but these drugs are so expensive I just can't afford to buy them.
>
> I know there is a "window" with sulpiride for the dopaminergic effects; a dosage level outside the window will not work. So I'd really like to hit that window precisely as I can, and keep my fingers crossed. Thanks.
>
> J
Posted by jimmygold70 on March 2, 2001, at 2:50:44
In reply to Re: Jimmy, posted by AndrewB on March 1, 2001, at 10:40:14
Actually I resumed sulpiride yesterday. I will take Liver Function Tests every a couple of days to see if it does cause any liver problem...
So far so good.
Jimmy
> Jimmy, no, low dose amisulpride or sulpiride will not improve (nor harm) your fine motor coordination.
>
> Too much dopamine causing anxiety??? Yes certain meds that increase dopamine at certain sites cause anxiety. But it is also clear that certain types of anxiety (at least) are due to hypofunction at certain dopamine receptor sites in the brain. Sulpiride and amisulpride deal with the hypofunction at those specific receptor sites (seemingly the D2/D3 limbic system receptors). The evidence is very compelling that 1) anxiety can be caused by hypofunction at these sites 2) amisulpride and sulpiride can be effective at dealing with this anxiety and 3) this type of anxiety of includes negative thinking loops (loosely termed 'ruminations').
>
> If and when you decide to resume sulpiride (or amisulpride), please let us know how it goes.
>
> AndrewB
Posted by AndrewB on March 2, 2001, at 3:11:54
In reply to Sulpiride dosage » AndrewB, posted by J on March 1, 2001, at 18:40:44
The dosage for Sulpiride varies from 50 to 300mg.s/day. 150 to 200mgs. being the most common dosage I believe. I would suggest you start at the lower dosage for a six day trial and work up from their to try and find that 'therapeutic window'.
Amislupride dosages range from 25mg.s to 100mg.s. Again start at the lowenst dosage.
AndrewB
Posted by Elkana Prager on April 23, 2001, at 21:49:56
In reply to No, that's something quite different, posted by jimmygold70 on February 26, 2001, at 16:01:10
well, I can tell you that I've been on Sulpiride for 10 years (very low dosage, 50 mg a day) and have no tremor or any other side effect whatsoever. Of course, we each react individually but I doubt that your doctor can claim tremor as a side effect with such certainty.
Elk
Posted by st@cy on December 13, 2003, at 2:25:09
In reply to Re: Sulpiride dosage , posted by jimmygold70 on March 1, 2001, at 19:42:32
Since i was fifteen i've been suffering from things like being so nervous around people bc i'm afraid they will think i'm dull or wierd or something. The only ppl i've felt comfortable around are the few that (and i know this sounds terrible, but it's how i feel) the few that i see myself as better than. i can't talk to ppl bc i can't follow conversations bc i'm too busy trying to analyze things and thinking. i get so frustrated with myself. I spend so much time trying to look perfect bc i think i can't wow ppl with my personality, so i might as well fool them with my looks, but the second they talk to me they will know i'm just dull and nervous and scared and just not someone that they want to be friends with. i even remember thinking: if i lose weight and look perfect, maybe other ppl will feel intimidated by me and i won't be the one that has to be nervous all the time. i avoid going places and doing things bc i feel so uncomfortable unless i'm with someone i know that can kind of take the heat for me. i feel alone all the time too. like, everyone else can feel so comfortable, but i see life outside the box. i started looking into what my problem was bc i got scared when i started turning to alcohol and pills to feel better and less inhibited. please tell me what you guys think and what i should do. all i want is to live my life and stop dealing with this every minute of everyday. for the longest time i thought that nobody could understand.
Posted by gianpiero on December 13, 2003, at 14:32:39
In reply to i think i may have ADP..., posted by st@cy on December 13, 2003, at 2:25:09
Stacy..I totally know what you are going through. Everytime I am around people I feel so damn fake. And I feel so confused because I am constantly analyzing my surroundings. If I'm talking to somebody, I focus on what they may be thinking of me...instead of what the conversation is about. Eventually, I started smoking pot, because it made life fun again and I was more social. But as you found out, it's only really a temporary fix. It wasn't long before I became more withdrawn and antisocial.
I also will obsess about my weight and my hair. I just feel that if I can look great that nobody will find me dull, or they just won't care. So I spend about an hour fixing and refixing my hair. Then I would just stand around.....thinking about things I should wear, but I'm too fat and it won't really look good. Funny thing is I was never really that fat, I just felt I was.
The best advice that I could give you is to try and seek the help of a good therapist. It is a rather slow and subtle process toward self-improvement, but it is worth it. Since I've been going, I've had an easier time relating to strangers and friends.
Exercise is also very important!! Try to do at least a little walking everyday. This will improve your self-confidence and will also help to brighten your mood.
I've also just recently been diagnosed with ADD, inattentive type. I've noticed that a small dose of Adderall (10 mg/ once per day) has helped with my confidence and allows me to keep up with social interactions.
Good luck to you. I feel for you, but I am also confident that you will get better. SMILE :)
Gianpiero
P.S. Anytime you need help or encouragement, just let me know and I will try my best.> Since i was fifteen i've been suffering from things like being so nervous around people bc i'm afraid they will think i'm dull or wierd or something. The only ppl i've felt comfortable around are the few that (and i know this sounds terrible, but it's how i feel) the few that i see myself as better than. i can't talk to ppl bc i can't follow conversations bc i'm too busy trying to analyze things and thinking. i get so frustrated with myself. I spend so much time trying to look perfect bc i think i can't wow ppl with my personality, so i might as well fool them with my looks, but the second they talk to me they will know i'm just dull and nervous and scared and just not someone that they want to be friends with. i even remember thinking: if i lose weight and look perfect, maybe other ppl will feel intimidated by me and i won't be the one that has to be nervous all the time. i avoid going places and doing things bc i feel so uncomfortable unless i'm with someone i know that can kind of take the heat for me. i feel alone all the time too. like, everyone else can feel so comfortable, but i see life outside the box. i started looking into what my problem was bc i got scared when i started turning to alcohol and <A TITLE="Click for more information about pill" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||pills|AA1VDw">pill</A>s to feel better and less inhibited. please tell me what you guys think and what i should do. all i want is to live my life and stop dealing with this every minute of everyday. for the longest time i thought that nobody could understand.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.