![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 80 to 104 of 226. Go back in thread:
Posted by Noa on February 20, 2001, at 15:04:35
In reply to Re: PMDD vs depression, posted by Cathrine on February 20, 2001, at 12:35:41
Maybe it isn't an either-or thing. The book "screaming to be heard" has a nice graphic of how stress interacts with biology to cause lots of hormonal changes that could include mood problems. this is a good bood to take a look at.
Posted by Paulette on February 20, 2001, at 15:13:11
In reply to Marchelle, posted by Wendy on February 19, 2001, at 17:18:41
> > >I was rather dissapointed when I walked out of her office only after, literally, five minutes of speaking with her, carrying a prescription for a mood-altering drug (Sarafem).< <
>
> Unfortunately, in this day and age, doctors often need to be affronted and put back on a human level before they can REALLY treat YOU as an individual - not a symptom.Hi Everyone! I just started peaking at this site about two weeks ago and I was at a low when I first posted, then thrilled because for the first time in almost two years I had a painless cycle! That was last week. I have now been on Sarafem for 3 months going on 4, and that was the first cycle with relief...however...I am at day 13 of my cycle...ovulation....and I have turned into Mrs Hyde..I am snappy, crabby, relatively just plain bitchy, and I even yelled at the baby (almost 2) 4 times yesterday....this started yesterday...I also have severe swelling in my hands and feet again, and I noticed pain and burning in my lower right abdomen yesterday...which thankfully is gone today...I am so mad about this...I thought for sure I was on the way out of this horrible mess of PMDD, I need some advice here.....I really was doing soooo good! I was productive and calm at home for almost two weeks this time and now it is just gone! I may have to retract my statement about the Sarafem...I thought it was doing really good....it has with some things and now this????
>
Posted by Marchelle on February 20, 2001, at 22:59:13
In reply to Re: Marchelle, posted by Paulette on February 20, 2001, at 15:13:11
> > > >I was rather dissapointed when I walked out of her office only after, literally, five minutes of speaking with her, carrying a prescription for a mood-altering drug (Sarafem).< <
> >
> > Unfortunately, in this day and age, doctors often need to be affronted and put back on a human level before they can REALLY treat YOU as an individual - not a symptom.
>
> Hi Everyone! I just started peaking at this site about two weeks ago and I was at a low when I first posted, then thrilled because for the first time in almost two years I had a painless cycle! That was last week. I have now been on Sarafem for 3 months going on 4, and that was the first cycle with relief...however...I am at day 13 of my cycle...ovulation....and I have turned into Mrs Hyde..I am snappy, crabby, relatively just plain bitchy, and I even yelled at the baby (almost 2) 4 times yesterday....this started yesterday...I also have severe swelling in my hands and feet again, and I noticed pain and burning in my lower right abdomen yesterday...which thankfully is gone today...I am so mad about this...I thought for sure I was on the way out of this horrible mess of PMDD, I need some advice here.....I really was doing soooo good! I was productive and calm at home for almost two weeks this time and now it is just gone! I may have to retract my statement about the Sarafem...I thought it was doing really good....it has with some things and now this????
> >Wow, this is really unfortunate. Did you report these problems with your doc? Did she/he offer any advice? I know it must be very frustrating, but maybe more time is needed before it is time to give up, or try another treatment. It seems that you are taking Sarafem for other reasons (physical) than the mood problems which Sarafem advertises to correct. I am still new to this whole thing, but I don't understand how an antidepressent is supposed to relieve physical discomfort such as your swollen hands and painful abdomen. Do you understand this? Sorry to hear about this, try to keep your chin up...
Posted by Wendy on February 21, 2001, at 7:25:54
In reply to Re: Marchelle, posted by Paulette on February 20, 2001, at 15:13:11
Don't get too discouraged! Allow for your body to be going through another adjustment phase, and put yourself BACK INTO that positive frame of mind when you WERE feeling good.
Sitting around and waiting for the next bad day/hour/minute to come along is just as bad as 'expecting' it to be worse than it could be.
Positive thinking, and let your system go through another few cycles before you make up your mind that the meds aren't working! (oh, and if you yell at your kids, that's o.k. too. They'll accept an honest "I'm sorry" and a hug from you pretty well)
Posted by Ron Hill on February 21, 2001, at 11:13:47
In reply to PMS vs. PMDD vs. Bipolar, posted by Dan on February 16, 2001, at 15:11:13
Dan,
I want to commend you for your faithful commitment to your wife. I am bipolar and the symptoms you listed for your wife might indicate a BP dx. Here is a link to an on-line diagnostic test. If your wife is not willing to take the test, perhaps you could take the test answering in your wife's stead. Obviously, one needs to be extremely careful with any kind of self-diagnosis generated dx. With that said, however, the on-line test may be of some benefit.
http://www.mentalhealth.com/fr71.html
Also, you mentioned that she is taking Prozac. Is it a pdoc or a fdoc writing the script? What is the dx according to the doctor prescribing the Prozac?
-- Ron
-----------------------------------------------
> This is my first posting here, and in looking through the threads, it looks like there are a lot of other people going through the same types of things.
>
> My wife and I have only been married 2 years. She is in her early 40's. It seems that nearly every month she becomes extremely irritable, moody, and angry for the week before her period (PMS?) as well as the week during, and sometimes even the week after her periods, so that she is maybe civil for only about one week a month.
>
> My wife is an FNP (Family Nurse Practitioner) and has apparently had this going on for years. When it happens, it is definitely a Dr. Jenny/Mrs. Hyde type situation. She claims it has nothing to do with her period, and because she is an FNP, I cannot even suggest to her to possibly see a doctor about it. She has been on Prozac for quite a while, but it doesn't really seem to help much, especially around her period - it almost seems to me to make things worse. I have been told by several people that she might be bipolar, but I do not really know enough about any of this to even try to attempt to diagnose her myself - I do not understand all of this, but not only that, she would not listen to me if I did make any suggestions. I am hoping that she will somehow recognize it on her own or have her hear it from a doctor or other medical expert that she trusts and will listen to.
>
> Last month she moved out to try to try to get her head together and deal with it all. The separation has been extremely difficult for both of us, but it sounds like she is really looking for answers to help her with her situation and I would like to help as much as possible.
>
> The other day I saw a TV commercial which described our situation exactly (extreme depression, sadness, irritation that interfers with relationships, etc), and it mentioned that it might be PMDD and recommended to check with your doctor about PMDD and Sarafem. I was hoping to find some answers about Sarafem and found this thread and hope some of you might be able to help us. It sounds like Sarafem contains much of the same ingredients as Prozac, which she is already on, and which doesn't seem to help much.
>
> Some of her symptoms include:
> Severe mood swings
> Depression, hopelessness, sadness, crying
> Extreme irritability, anxiety, anger, fear
> Fatigue, lethargy, lack of energy
> Decreased self-esteem
> Severe migraine headaches
> Severe cramping
> Breast pain, muscle aches
> Sleep difficulties and
> Insomnia followed by long periods of deep sleep
>
> She drinks lots of coffee (which might contribute to her difficulty in sleeping which might contribute to her irritability). Whenever she has an episode, I always notice that it happens to coincide with her period (which she denies), and after it subsides, she swings the other way into being in a great mood as if nothing is wrong. It is an incredibly difficult roller coaster ride for both of us.
>
> The irritability often causes great stress in our relationship. She is a very sweet, sensitive and intelligent woman, and I love her very much and want to stand by her and support her, but it is so difficult when this "THING" seems to get between us. I am struggling with how to help her and I am hoping that someone might please have some insight or suggestions to help us. Does any of this sound like PMS, PMDD or Bipolar to any of you? Any ideas or suggestions for what I or she can do?
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Dan
Posted by Paulette on February 21, 2001, at 20:20:17
In reply to Re: Marchelle, posted by Wendy on February 21, 2001, at 7:25:54
> Don't get too discouraged! Allow for your body to be going through another adjustment phase, and put yourself BACK INTO that positive frame of mind when you WERE feeling good.
>
> Sitting around and waiting for the next bad day/hour/minute to come along is just as bad as 'expecting' it to be worse than it could be.
>
> Positive thinking, and let your system go through another few cycles before you make up your mind that the meds aren't working! (oh, and if you yell at your kids, that's o.k. too. They'll accept an honest "I'm sorry" and a hug from you pretty well)Today was another really rough day....I have what I call crash episodes occasionally...where out of the blue I just HAVE to lay down and take a nap. It seems to happen more during this time of my cycle. I have not spoken to the doctor yet, I am keeping a journal of the end of the last cycle through this one and the beginning of the next. Appointment with him is March 22nd again because I had abnormal cells in a pathology report from a mass on my cervix in December. So I have been writing down everything so I dont forget. I am going to mail it to him before my appointment so that he has time to read it. I started out really good this morning and then it nose dived. He gave me Zanax for when I am having my insomnia attacks right before my period and then he told me to take a half when I feel out of control So I did yesterday and today....I calmed out very well yesterday, but today had to go take a short drive by myself...I thought that the Sarafem was for physical as well as mental symptoms of PMDD. Maybe I read the insert wrong. I will go back and look. Thanks for the support. How is everyone else doing on this right now? And how do you know if you should be looking at hormone therapy????
Posted by jmoyer3 on February 21, 2001, at 23:05:20
In reply to Re: Sarafem=Prozac(np), posted by Noa on January 8, 2001, at 6:13:04
> Sarafem=Prozac, I believe
Yes, for history of the drug, see article http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0049/spartos.shtml
Posted by Marchelle on February 22, 2001, at 1:37:46
In reply to Re: Sarafem=Prozac(np), posted by jmoyer3 on February 21, 2001, at 23:05:20
> > Sarafem=Prozac, I believe
>
> Yes, for history of the drug, see article http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0049/spartos.shtmlGood article. I definitely agree with the article that this new push for the PMDD diagnosis and an anti-depressent to treat it reinforces a negative stigma associated with women's mentrual cycles. I mentioned earlier that I was given a Sarafem Rx after talking to a doctor about my symptons for five minutes. It was the first time I was in to see this "hormone specialist" and had to make an appointmet a month in advance. No mention of a daily diary was made. This article calls attention to the intentions of the makers of Sarafem. All this suggests revalutation of the PMDD diagnosis and ways to go about handeling women's suffering other than taking Sarafem. How discouraging for those who have tried all the natural ways without succes...
Posted by meg_bat2000 on February 23, 2001, at 12:38:53
In reply to Re: Sarafem=Prozac(np), posted by Marchelle on February 22, 2001, at 1:37:46
I am 28 years old and was diagnosed with endometriosis seven years ago after years of suffering from massive PMS (major mood swings that would last for at least two weeks, cramps that I would have to practically overdose on Motrin for, bloating, irregular periods, etc.). I have had two surgeries for the endo (I am/was only in Stage I) and have been on five different kinds of birth control pills to control the physical pain from the endo, which has worked successfully. Now I am battling the emotional/mental aspect. I have started paying more attention to the vitamins and minerals that I take, under suggestion from an endometriosis book and guidance from my doctor and I must say that I have noticed a great difference in my mood swings simply by increasing my intake of vitamin B-6. However, it does not help with the PMS I have/get about a day or two just before my period; this lasts for about three to four days from the onset. It is very bad - I get/feel very self-destructive and/or sad, which I can control to a certain degree. Another thing I have noticed is that I tend to get naseous during this time too. I am already on Prozac (I have been on it for several years for PMS), so Sarafem does not look like an alternative for me since it appears to be very similar. Am I suffering from PMDD (I am very wary of this term)? I don't believe that this emotional/mental impairment is due to the endo or something like depression since it only happens right before my period like clockwork. What other options do I have? -- Meg
Posted by ARR on February 25, 2001, at 18:27:20
In reply to Re: Sarafem=Prozac(np), posted by Marchelle on February 22, 2001, at 1:37:46
Dear Marcelle
Try not to be discouraged. I believe that there is hope. Many times the natural solutions fail because the changes that people make are not comprehensive enough. PMS is not a seratonin deficiency. It is often the expression of many imbalances in the bodies hormonal biochemistry and trying to alter one small part of that may not be sufficient.
(Let's take the example of B6: B6 supplementation will often fail if magnesium is lacking, and even B6 and magnesium are is only a small part of the picture}
I've recently attended a presented by Dr. Jeffry Bland that is currently being give to hundreds of nutritionally oriented physicians around the country. This seminar presented an overview of many factors that can contribute to hormone imbalance associated with PMS. It also presented a research study done on a nutritional product called Estrobalance which addresses a broad spectrum of the imbalances that leads to PMS. This includes therapeutic levels of B6, folic acid, magnesium, zinc, flax, and a blend of isoflavones provided in a rice based protein/carbohydrate balanced medical food. The study that was performed with this medical food showed dramatic and statistically significant results in women who followed the program a two month period of time.
If you are interested in finding someone who can help you with this, go to Metagenics.com and you can be directed to a list of practitioners in your area who would be familiar with it.
I think that this represents a tremendous clinical breakthrough and that it will offer many women true hope rather than the false hope that I feel the Prozac family of drugs offers. On that note, I would highly recommend reading the book Prozac Backlash. This was writtten by a Harvard psychiatrist who used these medications for many years and began finding alarming symptoms that lead him to research the scientific literature on these drugs. What he turned up is nothing short of terrifying. Anyone who is on or who is considering taking any of these drugs must read this book.
I hope this helps, and don't give up hope. There are viable alternatives that do work. The fact that these are so little known is indirectly explained in this book. The Prozac family of drugs generates more than $4,000,000,000 is sales per year. The lack of research and news concerning effective natural solutions is not an accident.
ARR
> > > Sarafem=Prozac, I believe
> >
> > Yes, for history of the drug, see article http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0049/spartos.shtml
>
> Good article. I definitely agree with the article that this new push for the PMDD diagnosis and an anti-depressent to treat it reinforces a negative stigma associated with women's mentrual cycles. I mentioned earlier that I was given a Sarafem Rx after talking to a doctor about my symptons for five minutes. It was the first time I was in to see this "hormone specialist" and had to make an appointmet a month in advance. No mention of a daily diary was made. This article calls attention to the intentions of the makers of Sarafem. All this suggests revalutation of the PMDD diagnosis and ways to go about handeling women's suffering other than taking Sarafem. How discouraging for those who have tried all the natural ways without succes...
Posted by Doug Anderson on February 26, 2001, at 7:50:49
In reply to experience w/ sarafem » Paulette, posted by Marchelle on February 20, 2001, at 22:59:13
> > > > The physiology of each woman is very complicated. There are variations in each womans cycle can be explaned by the amout of estrogen secreted by the follicle as it matures. Estrogen enhances the amount of tryptophan in the brain which is a precursor to serotonin. Serotonin is the chemical in the brain responsible for mood stability. After ovulation, if an egg is not fertilized, levels of estrogen fall off. This rapid decrease may also decrease the availability of serotonin. Those of you who are sensitive to this fall off experience mood swings. If estogen levels are low from a particular follicle this may increase your symptoms in a particular month. Your estrogen levels are not constant from month to month. This month may be bad but the next may not be. Some women can tell which overy is active just by the symptoms they are having. Therefore a constant dose of Sarafem may be good for one month and not the next. This is a delemma. You don't want to have a higher dose just to cover the worst month. The matter of bloating and secondary symptoms is not clear since prostaglandins are responsible for this and SSRI's like Prozac(Sarafem) do not affect this. There is a very good book out there to explain alot of this called Women's Moods by Deborah Sichel and Jeanne Watson Driscoll. You may have to go on line to Amazon or Barnes and Noble to find it. I highly recomend it. I hope I was some help. Hang in there! Next cycle may be better.
Posted by super on February 26, 2001, at 13:51:34
In reply to Re: experience w/ sarafem, posted by Doug Anderson on February 26, 2001, at 7:50:49
Hi Doug,
Since you seem to know a lot about this, can I ask you a couple basic questions? Why would I still have PMS when I'm on birth control pills, since they regulate the amount of estrogen, etc in your body? Also, would a high estrogen birth control pill help control moods due to the seratonin connection?
Thanks!
> > > > > The physiology of each woman is very complicated. There are variations in each womans cycle can be explaned by the amout of estrogen secreted by the follicle as it matures. Estrogen enhances the amount of tryptophan in the brain which is a precursor to serotonin. Serotonin is the chemical in the brain responsible for mood stability. After ovulation, if an egg is not fertilized, levels of estrogen fall off. This rapid decrease may also decrease the availability of serotonin. Those of you who are sensitive to this fall off experience mood swings. If estogen levels are low from a particular follicle this may increase your symptoms in a particular month. Your estrogen levels are not constant from month to month. This month may be bad but the next may not be. Some women can tell which overy is active just by the symptoms they are having. Therefore a constant dose of Sarafem may be good for one month and not the next. This is a delemma. You don't want to have a higher dose just to cover the worst month. The matter of bloating and secondary symptoms is not clear since prostaglandins are responsible for this and SSRI's like Prozac(Sarafem) do not affect this. There is a very good book out there to explain alot of this called Women's Moods by Deborah Sichel and Jeanne Watson Driscoll. You may have to go on line to Amazon or Barnes and Noble to find it. I highly recomend it. I hope I was some help. Hang in there! Next cycle may be better.
Posted by Marchelle on February 26, 2001, at 20:10:16
In reply to Re: Sarafem=Prozac(np), posted by ARR on February 25, 2001, at 18:27:20
ARR: Since my active involvement with trying to correct my PMS and its effects, I have spent much time researching literature at my health food store. I have found an essiental oil blend for women, daily vitamins designed for women and calcium and magnesium supplements. I have been taking them according to the recommendations in the wonderful book, "Prescriptions for Nutritional Healing" suggested for treatment of PMS. I am not yet expecting the uncomfortable symptoms of PMS for a couple more days, but I can already percieve an improvement in a consistant, healthy, and elevated mood for the last 2 1/2-3 weeks. Thank you for the suggestion of Estrobalance, it is definitely something that I will look into.
Also... I have really been keeping up with all the posts. Every one has been so helpful! Thank you and best wishes!
> Dear Marcelle
>
> Try not to be discouraged. I believe that there is hope. Many times the natural solutions fail because the changes that people make are not comprehensive enough. PMS is not a seratonin deficiency. It is often the expression of many imbalances in the bodies hormonal biochemistry and trying to alter one small part of that may not be sufficient.
>
> (Let's take the example of B6: B6 supplementation will often fail if magnesium is lacking, and even B6 and magnesium are is only a small part of the picture}
>
> I've recently attended a presented by Dr. Jeffry Bland that is currently being give to hundreds of nutritionally oriented physicians around the country. This seminar presented an overview of many factors that can contribute to hormone imbalance associated with PMS. It also presented a research study done on a nutritional product called Estrobalance which addresses a broad spectrum of the imbalances that leads to PMS. This includes therapeutic levels of B6, folic acid, magnesium, zinc, flax, and a blend of isoflavones provided in a rice based protein/carbohydrate balanced medical food. The study that was performed with this medical food showed dramatic and statistically significant results in women who followed the program a two month period of time.
>
> If you are interested in finding someone who can help you with this, go to Metagenics.com and you can be directed to a list of practitioners in your area who would be familiar with it.
>
> I think that this represents a tremendous clinical breakthrough and that it will offer many women true hope rather than the false hope that I feel the Prozac family of drugs offers. On that note, I would highly recommend reading the book Prozac Backlash. This was writtten by a Harvard psychiatrist who used these medications for many years and began finding alarming symptoms that lead him to research the scientific literature on these drugs. What he turned up is nothing short of terrifying. Anyone who is on or who is considering taking any of these drugs must read this book.
>
> I hope this helps, and don't give up hope. There are viable alternatives that do work. The fact that these are so little known is indirectly explained in this book. The Prozac family of drugs generates more than $4,000,000,000 is sales per year. The lack of research and news concerning effective natural solutions is not an accident.
>
> ARR
>
> > > > Sarafem=Prozac, I believe
> > >
> > > Yes, for history of the drug, see article http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0049/spartos.shtml
> >
> > Good article. I definitely agree with the article that this new push for the PMDD diagnosis and an anti-depressent to treat it reinforces a negative stigma associated with women's mentrual cycles. I mentioned earlier that I was given a Sarafem Rx after talking to a doctor about my symptons for five minutes. It was the first time I was in to see this "hormone specialist" and had to make an appointmet a month in advance. No mention of a daily diary was made. This article calls attention to the intentions of the makers of Sarafem. All this suggests revalutation of the PMDD diagnosis and ways to go about handeling women's suffering other than taking Sarafem. How discouraging for those who have tried all the natural ways without succes...
Posted by ladytj on March 2, 2001, at 2:14:42
In reply to PMDD - Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder, posted by Jan on March 1, 1999, at 10:54:47
> PMDD - I'm looking for anyone being treated for it, and I'd like to know what the treatment consists of. I'm in my 30's and anti-depressant meds don't help at all. My Dr says that I'm to young for Estrogen therapy. I'm running out of options. Any information would be appriciated.
>
> Thank you.I really think that this whole thing is a farce to say the least. Granted women have the tears, the bloating,the not wanting to be around anyone thing and of course the additude, but you can't tell me the it is now called a disorder!...it is mother nature, it is the way it has been since Adam and Eve. Having a period is no different then having a bad hair day!..so get over it..this whole disorder thing is nothing but a medical term for "The monthly curse", "Aunt Raggy coming to visit","On the rag". Im 35 and have NEVER wanted to kill someone or wanted to make my family miserable. I am the one that is miserable, I have to deal with it, not them!!!!!!!!
By the way..Let Go Let God!!!!
Posted by Wendy on March 2, 2001, at 4:07:45
In reply to Re: PMDD - Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder, posted by ladytj on March 2, 2001, at 2:14:42
What an obtuse way of thinking! If we didn't intervene when modern medicine allowed for it, our civilization would not be as prosperous nor as healthy as it is today.
Your statement amounts to nothing more than gobblidee-goop! If we just "let nature take it's course" as you would have us do, then my father's cancer would have surely been the end to a wonderous part of my existence and a loss for many, many people.
This is a SUPPORT board! While opinions are valued here, negative ignorance is not. Perhaps you should educate yourself on the subject of women's health and PMDD in particular, then come back and join the discussion.
Posted by SalArmy4me on March 2, 2001, at 6:27:28
In reply to Re: PMDD - Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder » ladytj, posted by Wendy on March 2, 2001, at 4:07:45
Its only when people are about to commit suicide because of the pain that they finally decide to seek safe and effective treatment. And seeking treatment means asking for help from someone else--something that many people refuse to do.
The Salvation Army: 1865-2001 and beyond
> What an obtuse way of thinking! If we didn't intervene when modern medicine allowed for it, our civilization would not be as prosperous nor as healthy as it is today.
>
> Your statement amounts to nothing more than gobblidee-goop! If we just "let nature take it's course" as you would have us do, then my father's cancer would have surely been the end to a wonderous part of my existence and a loss for many, many people.
>
> This is a SUPPORT board! While opinions are valued here, negative ignorance is not. Perhaps you should educate yourself on the subject of women's health and PMDD in particular, then come back and join the discussion.
Posted by Cathynan on March 2, 2001, at 15:42:57
In reply to Re: PMDD - Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder, posted by ladytj on March 2, 2001, at 2:14:42
Really I feel sorry for you, because you are just IGNORANT.
You can't relate, because you don't have the disorder!
I welcome you to come around me when I am off my meds for a month.
I also welcome you to talk to my mother, father, boyfriend and roomate. They
will tell you how they have watched me sink into an unreachable depression, sleeping
for 16 hours straight at night and crying non stop. I KNOW what PMS is, and I KNOW what PMDD is,and they are different.
Before PMDD symptoms started to appear in my life, I had a regular PMS, so I KNOW.
Ask any one of them, and they will tell you it's a disorder.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 2, 2001, at 22:40:16
In reply to Re: PMDD - Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder, posted by ladytj on March 2, 2001, at 2:14:42
> I really think that this whole thing is a farce to say the least... so get over it...
> What an obtuse way of thinking!
>
> Your statement amounts to nothing more than gobblidee-goop!> Really I feel sorry for you, because you are just IGNORANT.
Please, everyone, be civil, even if you disagree, otherwise I'll need to try to block you from posting. Thanks,
Bob
PS: Any follow-ups regarding this should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Posted by Doug Anderson on March 4, 2001, at 1:47:52
In reply to Re: PMDD - Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder » ladytj, posted by Cathynan on March 2, 2001, at 15:42:57
> Really I feel sorry for you, because you are just IGNORANT.
>
> You can't relate, because you don't have the disorder!
>
> I welcome you to come around me when I am off my meds for a month.
>
> I also welcome you to talk to my mother, father, boyfriend and roomate. They
> will tell you how they have watched me sink into an unreachable depression, sleeping
> for 16 hours straight at night and crying non stop. I KNOW what PMS is, and I KNOW what PMDD is,and they are different.
> Before PMDD symptoms started to appear in my life, I had a regular PMS, so I KNOW.
> Ask any one of them, and they will tell you it's a disorder.I guess if this person never experienced PMDD first hand then they have no idea. As a man I have never gone through it but I see what it does to the woman I love. That constant battle is beyond my ability to understand but I try. Putting blinders on does not make PMDD unreal. I hope that this person never has to deal with all this because it would change the way that they thought. Hang in there and keep trying for yourself most of all but also for the ones that love you. Who ever said that women were the weaker sex was nuts. God Bless! Doug
Posted by pattykay on March 6, 2001, at 11:32:02
In reply to Re: experience w/ sarafem » Doug Anderson, posted by super on February 26, 2001, at 13:51:34
I just happened on to this site because I was doing research on sarafem. My mood swings and sensitivity during the one or two weeks before and first week of my period have affected my life for years. I started taking the pill for the first time in my life when I was 31. After trying 4 kinds of pills in a year I finally gave up since all my pms symptoms were so much worse no matter which pill I used (though lower levels of progestin seemed to be the best). My relationship has improved immensely since I ceased using the pill but the pms symptoms are still strong. I would really like to try the pill again and see how it works WITH sarafem. I almost started crying while I read all the postings from women with problems similar to mine. If you haven't experienced it it's so hard to comprehend. Thanks for all the good information. I'm going to see my doctor armed with a lot of pertinent questions about how my own chemistry is working (or not working).
Patty
> Hi Doug,
>
> Since you seem to know a lot about this, can I ask you a couple basic questions? Why would I still have PMS when I'm on birth control pills, since they regulate the amount of estrogen, etc in your body? Also, would a high estrogen birth control pill help control moods due to the seratonin connection?
>
> Thanks!
>
> > > > > > The physiology of each woman is very complicated. There are variations in each womans cycle can be explaned by the amout of estrogen secreted by the follicle as it matures. Estrogen enhances the amount of tryptophan in the brain which is a precursor to serotonin. Serotonin is the chemical in the brain responsible for mood stability. After ovulation, if an egg is not fertilized, levels of estrogen fall off. This rapid decrease may also decrease the availability of serotonin. Those of you who are sensitive to this fall off experience mood swings. If estogen levels are low from a particular follicle this may increase your symptoms in a particular month. Your estrogen levels are not constant from month to month. This month may be bad but the next may not be. Some women can tell which overy is active just by the symptoms they are having. Therefore a constant dose of Sarafem may be good for one month and not the next. This is a delemma. You don't want to have a higher dose just to cover the worst month. The matter of bloating and secondary symptoms is not clear since prostaglandins are responsible for this and SSRI's like Prozac(Sarafem) do not affect this. There is a very good book out there to explain alot of this called Women's Moods by Deborah Sichel and Jeanne Watson Driscoll. You may have to go on line to Amazon or Barnes and Noble to find it. I highly recomend it. I hope I was some help. Hang in there! Next cycle may be better.
Posted by Doug Anderson on March 6, 2001, at 15:10:01
In reply to Re: experience w/ sarafem, posted by pattykay on March 6, 2001, at 11:32:02
> I just happened on to this site because I was doing research on sarafem. My mood swings and sensitivity during the one or two weeks before and first week of my period have affected my life for years. I started taking the pill for the first time in my life when I was 31. After trying 4 kinds of pills in a year I finally gave up since all my pms symptoms were so much worse no matter which pill I used (though lower levels of progestin seemed to be the best). My relationship has improved immensely since I ceased using the pill but the pms symptoms are still strong. I would really like to try the pill again and see how it works WITH sarafem. I almost started crying while I read all the postings from women with problems similar to mine. If you haven't experienced it it's so hard to comprehend. Thanks for all the good information. I'm going to see my doctor armed with a lot of pertinent questions about how my own chemistry is working (or not working).
> Patty
>
>
> > Hi Doug,
> >
> > Since you seem to know a lot about this, can I ask you a couple basic questions? Why would I still have PMS when I'm on birth control pills, since they regulate the amount of estrogen, etc in your body? Also, would a high estrogen birth control pill help control moods due to the seratonin connection?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > > > > > > The physiology of each woman is very complicated. There are variations in each womans cycle can be explaned by the amout of estrogen secreted by the follicle as it matures. Estrogen enhances the amount of tryptophan in the brain which is a precursor to serotonin. Serotonin is the chemical in the brain responsible for mood stability. After ovulation, if an egg is not fertilized, levels of estrogen fall off. This rapid decrease may also decrease the availability of serotonin. Those of you who are sensitive to this fall off experience mood swings. If estogen levels are low from a particular follicle this may increase your symptoms in a particular month. Your estrogen levels are not constant from month to month. This month may be bad but the next may not be. Some women can tell which overy is active just by the symptoms they are having. Therefore a constant dose of Sarafem may be good for one month and not the next. This is a delemma. You don't want to have a higher dose just to cover the worst month. The matter of bloating and secondary symptoms is not clear since prostaglandins are responsible for this and SSRI's like Prozac(Sarafem) do not affect this. There is a very good book out there to explain alot of this called Women's Moods by Deborah Sichel and Jeanne Watson Driscoll. You may have to go on line to Amazon or Barnes and Noble to find it. I highly recomend it. I hope I was some help. Hang in there! Next cycle may be better.Most birth control pills are cyclical and contain various amounts of estrogen. When you end a cycle of pills there are only the few days of blank placebo's so that your cycle can run. Higher levels of estrogen don't help because it is the sensitivity to any fluctuations that cause the PMDD symtoms. Birth control pills containing progestins(A synthetic progesterone) can aggrivate the depression by competing for estrogen sites. from what I hear this can be much worse for severe PMDD sufferers. The book I mentioned goes in to greater detail and is much more clear that I am. Get it, read it. It is the best book that I have read so far. I can tell you from the experiences that I have had with my dear friend, the IUD's have progestin in them too. They compete with natural progesterone in the uterus and estrogen elsewhere in the body. If you have one you may want to ask about that. Good luck. I don't really think birth cotrol is the best method of controlling PMDD. Read up on Paxil. Heard that it might have some benefit.
Doug
Posted by adams on March 6, 2001, at 15:39:16
In reply to Re: experience w/ sarafem, posted by Doug Anderson on March 6, 2001, at 15:10:01
I have not read this entire thread and I am not going to because I am not interested, but I just wanted to ask why they had to come up with a new name for prozac just because they wanted to use prozac for PMDD, why not just call it prozac? Now we have to make up a new medical condition for PMS and rename prozac for a special medication, you know what I think, I think there just trying to sell more prozac to people so they can make more money.
Posted by Wendy on March 6, 2001, at 21:08:50
In reply to Re: sarafem? , posted by adams on March 6, 2001, at 15:39:16
Maybe some of what you say is true, as Sarafem DOES have the same 'active' ingredient as Prozac; however, it also contains other drug components.
Unfortunately, until our society releases much of the stigma associated with 'Prozac', it will continue to be a drug associated with mental illness and not for the many positive aspects as it should be.
Posted by Emily B. on March 10, 2001, at 0:35:29
In reply to Re: Sarafem=Prozac(np), posted by Noa on January 8, 2001, at 6:13:04
After only 8 months of marriage, my husband is threatening to leave me. I KNOW I have PMDD, but I'm afraid of being associated with having a psychiatric disorder. Anything to save my marriage. Please someone, I need advice, and I need my husband to understand that I'm NOT crazy, my actions speak otherwise.
Posted by Doug Anderson on March 10, 2001, at 6:16:44
In reply to I'm scared, posted by Emily B. on March 10, 2001, at 0:35:29
> After only 8 months of marriage, my husband is threatening to leave me. I KNOW I have PMDD, but I'm afraid of being associated with having a psychiatric disorder. Anything to save my marriage. Please someone, I need advice, and I need my husband to understand that I'm NOT crazy, my actions speak otherwise.
Dear Emily,
If you like you can let your husband read this. I am a man who has fallen in love with a woman that has suffered with this all of her adult life. We hace been together for a year and a half. I understand all to well, the hard times that you go through. Real abiding love does not quit through hard times. I have spent hours on the net lokking for answers. I look for books to further that understanding. You have to work together to find an answer. I have tries to reassure my loved one that this is not a matter of psychology. It is a physiological condition that mant wonan suffer from in varios degrees. The first and most important thing is to understand this condition. The second is to arm yourself with the facts and go to a doctor experienced in this and get help. Changing your diet and getting exercise are great but I have come to believe that there are medications out there, when used correctly can make a big difference. Love and support can go a long way in making you feel more comfortable. Let me tell you that no matter how irritable and angry you get during this time, never say what you don't mean. I have been told such horrible things that i become depressed. When you both go down at the same time it will be devastating. Get your husband involved and get help. Look into a book called Women's Moods. You can find it at Amazon.com. Get your husband to read it. It will help him to understand you. Another thing you might get him to read is one little passage from the Bible. it is 1Corinthians13. It is a great definition of love. It is what keeps me going on with my love. Good luck Emily. You can e-mail me if you need any more info. Doug
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