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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JackD on February 7, 2001, at 19:03:24
Are there any dopamine agonists or stimulants that do not excacerbate anxiety? I've heard Provigil is a pretty "gentle" stimulant. What about Mirapex? What is the neurochemistry behind dopamine and anxiety (what areas of the brain and what dopamine receptors are linked to anxiety)? Thanks guys.
Posted by SalArmy4me on February 7, 2001, at 22:43:54
In reply to Dopamine Agonists, posted by JackD on February 7, 2001, at 19:03:24
I'm taking 4.5 mg of Mirapex in three divided doses and I haven't noticed any anxiety from it. I only have been taking it for a week and I can't tell if it has any antidepressant effect yet.
Posted by AndrewB on February 8, 2001, at 0:58:04
In reply to Dopamine Agonists, posted by JackD on February 7, 2001, at 19:03:24
> Are there any dopamine agonists or stimulants that do not excacerbate anxiety? I've heard Provigil is a pretty "gentle" stimulant. What about Mirapex? What is the neurochemistry behind dopamine and anxiety (what areas of the brain and what dopamine receptors are linked to anxiety)? Thanks guys.
Jack,
If you have had anxiety problems with amphetamines you may wish to try provigil or adrafinil for arousal.
Mirapex is not known to produce anxiety. In may decrease anxiety in many but I'm still trying to get a read on that. For many it can have an arousing effect.
All dopamine based stimualnts can cause anxiety in some people at some time. Obviously some people are able to take away the anxiety that can be produced by drugs like adderall and selegiline by adding on another med such as sulpiride, amisulpride (both D2/D3 limbic region antagonists)or drugs like klonopin or gabapentin or certain serotenergic agents.
Why do some dopaminergics cause anxiety and other do no not?
My impression it that possibly repeated stimulation of the Ventral Tegmental Area (VTA) by certain dopaminergics (such as a stimulants) tends to create sensitization of the dopamine neurons there and when this occurs kindling or eleptogenisis occurs in the amygdala (this is seizue like activity which tend to reinforce itself with each repeated event, in other words, the more often this seizure like activity is induced, the more likely it is to repeat itself). Pathways connect the VTA to the amygdala. Activation of the amygydala produces fear and anxiety. Intervention by agents that prevent sensitization of VTA nuerons hold promise in halting this chain of events and the resultant fear. I am looking into medical interventions in this area now and hopefully will have something good to report in the near future.
AndrewB
Posted by ChrisK on February 8, 2001, at 5:51:19
In reply to Dopamine Agonists, posted by JackD on February 7, 2001, at 19:03:24
I've been taking Mirapex (3mg/day) since the beginning of January. There was no increase in Anxiety and I do feel good AD benefits. So far it has made a very noticable difference inn my personality.
> Are there any dopamine agonists or stimulants that do not excacerbate anxiety? I've heard Provigil is a pretty "gentle" stimulant. What about Mirapex? What is the neurochemistry behind dopamine and anxiety (what areas of the brain and what dopamine receptors are linked to anxiety)? Thanks guys.
Posted by JackD on February 10, 2001, at 0:51:43
In reply to Re: Dopamine Agonists, posted by ChrisK on February 8, 2001, at 5:51:19
What's the difference between Ritalin and other stimulants as opposed to Mirapex and more selective dopamine agonists?
Posted by JohnX on February 11, 2001, at 4:27:50
In reply to Re: Dopamine Agonists, posted by AndrewB on February 8, 2001, at 0:58:04
> > Are there any dopamine agonists or stimulants that do not excacerbate anxiety? I've heard Provigil is a pretty "gentle" stimulant. What about Mirapex? What is the neurochemistry behind dopamine and anxiety (what areas of the brain and what dopamine receptors are linked to anxiety)? Thanks guys.
>
> Jack,
>
> If you have had anxiety problems with amphetamines you may wish to try provigil or adrafinil for arousal.
>
> Mirapex is not known to produce anxiety. In may decrease anxiety in many but I'm still trying to get a read on that. For many it can have an arousing effect.
>
> All dopamine based stimualnts can cause anxiety in some people at some time. Obviously some people are able to take away the anxiety that can be produced by drugs like adderall and selegiline by adding on another med such as sulpiride, amisulpride (both D2/D3 limbic region antagonists)or drugs like klonopin or gabapentin or certain serotenergic agents.
>
> Why do some dopaminergics cause anxiety and other do no not?
>
> My impression it that possibly repeated stimulation of the Ventral Tegmental Area (VTA) by certain dopaminergics (such as a stimulants) tends to create sensitization of the dopamine neurons there and when this occurs kindling or eleptogenisis occurs in the amygdala (this is seizue like activity which tend to reinforce itself with each repeated event, in other words, the more often this seizure like activity is induced, the more likely it is to repeat itself). Pathways connect the VTA to the amygdala. Activation of the amygydala produces fear and anxiety. Intervention by agents that prevent sensitization of VTA nuerons hold promise in halting this chain of events and the resultant fear. I am looking into medical interventions in this area now and hopefully will have something good to report in the near future.
>
> AndrewBFinally registered, yeah!
Hmm, where are you going with this Andrew ;)-John
Posted by Lorraine on February 11, 2001, at 19:10:14
In reply to Re: Dopamine Agonists, posted by JohnX on February 11, 2001, at 4:27:50
I think you may be onto something here. I started hyperventilating when I was taking Moclobemide, got off it and started with deprenyl, still hyperventilating. Got off it on to L-tyrosine (amino acid), still hyperventilating. Added 5HTP stopped hyperventilating. So each of these drugs was less aggressive than the others and in the end all it took was 500 mg of l-tyrosine to set me off on an anxiety/panic treadmill--yes something was triggered and become more sensitive the more it was triggered.> > > Are there any dopamine agonists or stimulants that do not excacerbate anxiety? I've heard Provigil is a pretty "gentle" stimulant. What about Mirapex? What is the neurochemistry behind dopamine and anxiety (what areas of the brain and what dopamine receptors are linked to anxiety)? Thanks guys.
> >
> > Jack,
> >
> > If you have had anxiety problems with amphetamines you may wish to try provigil or adrafinil for arousal.
> >
> > Mirapex is not known to produce anxiety. In may decrease anxiety in many but I'm still trying to get a read on that. For many it can have an arousing effect.
> >
> > All dopamine based stimualnts can cause anxiety in some people at some time. Obviously some people are able to take away the anxiety that can be produced by drugs like adderall and selegiline by adding on another med such as sulpiride, amisulpride (both D2/D3 limbic region antagonists)or drugs like klonopin or gabapentin or certain serotenergic agents.
> >
> > Why do some dopaminergics cause anxiety and other do no not?
> >
> > My impression it that possibly repeated stimulation of the Ventral Tegmental Area (VTA) by certain dopaminergics (such as a stimulants) tends to create sensitization of the dopamine neurons there and when this occurs kindling or eleptogenisis occurs in the amygdala (this is seizue like activity which tend to reinforce itself with each repeated event, in other words, the more often this seizure like activity is induced, the more likely it is to repeat itself). Pathways connect the VTA to the amygdala. Activation of the amygydala produces fear and anxiety. Intervention by agents that prevent sensitization of VTA nuerons hold promise in halting this chain of events and the resultant fear. I am looking into medical interventions in this area now and hopefully will have something good to report in the near future.
> >
> > AndrewB
>
> Finally registered, yeah!
> Hmm, where are you going with this Andrew ;)
>
> -John
Posted by AndrewB on February 11, 2001, at 23:28:49
In reply to Re: Dopamine Agonists, posted by JackD on February 10, 2001, at 0:51:43
Amphetamines are loosely defined as reuptake inhibitors of dopamine at the D2 dopamine receptors. This increases the amount of dopamine in synaptic cleft. They are also adrenergic agonists.
Doapmine agonists stimulate the postsynaptic dopamine receptor. A chemical that is able to stimulate the recpetor is called a ligand. Dopamine itself is the natural ligand for the dopamine receptor.
When looking at dopamine agonists it is important to distinguish them by which dopamine receptors they stimulate and if they have a preference for receptors of that subtype in any specific regions of the brain. Mirapex is a full D2/D3 receptor agonist with a 7-fold higher preference for the D3 receptors. By comparison, Bromocriptine is a parital agonist selective only to the D2 receptors.
AndrewB
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